"Grant hates toe clips."

[Patrick Moore]

First entry in new Blahg. And no, he doesn't; he reports someone's out-of-context judgment.

But I'm curious how many on this RBW list like and use retention and how many don't; and of the former, how many use toe clips and how many use clipless systems -- and what kind.

I'll start: I rode fast for years and thousands of miles in Keds with thick, soft soles and then rubber-soled lace ups of other sorts on un-clipped rat-trap pedals (and even rubber block pedals) until in about 1990 I got my first relatively expensive road bike (1989 Falcon, tout 531C with Sante group) and decided largely because of bike mag content that I'd better get with the retention program. I started with Bata Bikers and clips and straps, graduated to clips and straps and slotted cleats, then pretty quickly switched to the burgeoning varieties of clipless -- Sampson Stratics, Grafton "Erector Set" road and mtb pedals, Speedplay X1s and Frogs, Looks of various sorts, and finally SPDs, road and mtb (by "road" I mean the ones that came out for about 1 season long long ago with the mtb mechanism). 

A couple of years ago I tried platforms with spikes and no-retention shoes but after about a month of annoyance always shifting my foot to find the right position I gave up and went back to SPDs. I've got SPDs on all my bikes though I've got a very nice set of XC Pros + clips and straps + almost-as-new wood-soled Duegis with cleats that I'd like to try -- I found slotted cleats with semi-tight straps easier with a fixed drivetrain than Look Keos -- except that SPDs are so perfect.

So, I've round that having gotten used to retention I find it very hard to give it up. I daresay that this habituation is stronger since so much of my riding is on fixed drivetrains, but I'd still want at least clips and loose-ish straps with rubber soles for any freewheel drivetrain.

But again, SPDs just feel so perfect that I will probably just stay with them.

Best wishes to all for the Christmas season.

Patrick Moore, finishing up a late resume on Xmas eve in ABQ, NM.

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Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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I endowed thy purposes with words that made them known.

[Wesley]

I have SPD mountain pedals on my road bike and tandem. They're very important for the tandem, because so much communication happens through the pedals. They're less essential for the road bike. I have flat pedals on my main (commuter) bike, but bought flat cycling shoes for my rides because they have stiffer soles. Chaos (my everyday footwear) are flexible enough at the ball of the foot that the pressure was focused on a smallish area, and my feet would go numb on long rides.

[George Schick]

Patrick - my experiences with pedal retention or the lack thereof pretty much mirrors yours, almost verbatim.  And I agree that through the years of clips and straps with or without cleats, LOOK type clipless, SPD clipless, and occasional dip into simple platforms with pins, I've finally settled on SPD clipless as well.  And I like the dual sided pedals with an SPD retention on one side and plain platform on the other.

However, having said all that I would add and agree that I do not like to ride without pedal retention (with the exception of one of my bikes that I use for running errands in near proximity - that one has platforms).  And so...blasphemous as it may sound to the ears of those in Walnut Creek, I think pedal retention improves "correct pedaling."  And by that I mean the ability to spin better in lower gears, the ability to "dig in" to the pedal at the 7 o'clock position of a down-stroke, the ability to stand all the way up tough climbs without worry about slipping a foot off a pedal - all of which, in my experience is much easier on the knees, the IT band, and other leg muscle groups.

OK, I'm ready to duck for cover now...

[Steve]

And here's another rider who wore Beta Bikers back in the day with toe clips and straps, then Look clipless pedals with the big honkin' cleats, then some Speedplays till I wore them out, and finally settled on SPDs.   (As an aside, I think the Looks were the best of any of them, but lawdy - those cleats!)

Then.... about two years ago my knees began to bother me on longer climbs. I geared the bike down in increments x 3, winding up with a 19" low, but no improvement.  Finally, this past summer in a bit of a pique I decided to try flat pedals. Within just a few weeks I was climbing pain free.  

I was reluctant to abandon clipping in, I like the way they promote a smooth spin,  but it was time for a compromise.  I maybe could have played with Q-factor or tried something with a few more degrees of float, but I found that after maybe a half dozen rides my technique adapted to the spiked flats. I sprang for a pair of flat MTB shoes, which I found play very nicely with the pedals. I'd arrived at Grant's point of view - though perhaps for a different reason.

So there you have it; when your knees are trying to tell you something - listen to 'em. 

Steve in Asheville, NC

[rlti...@gmail.com]

The first bike I bought for myself was a mid 80’s Schwinn Sierra and I rode that to commute to work and school. Once I added a road bike (Nishiki Prestige) to that I started reading cycling magazines and learned that the flat pedals I had been using since I started riding weren’t the way to go. So I bought some Time pedals and cleats for the road bike.  The Schwinn got some clips and straps for retention.

At some point I ditched the Time for SPD’s and used those on all bikes for years. When I got my Riv custom in 2000 I went in on the retro thing and put clips and straps on it but that didn’t last long and the Riv soon got SPD’s as well.

Quite a few years back I picked up a Brompton and found the flat, no retention pedals on it didn’t feel weird and I did not miss having retention. Since then I have most of my bikes set up with flat pedals with pins. I still have my “go fast” bike set up with SPD’s and I do put those on my off-road bike when I plan to do more technical trails. But most off-road rides I just used flats.  

I really like not having to change into different shoes when I ride. Most of my riding is commuting/errands so I am not getting “kitted up” for those rides. Since I’m not changing into a riding outfit it makes sense to not have to change shoes as well.

Robert Tilley

San Diego, CA

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 24, 2023, at 5:44 PM, Patrick Moore <bert...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Andy Beichler]

I haven't tried any foot retention in years.  It could be that clipless have improved over the years but I haven't tried them in at 15 years or longer.  I have, uh, interesting, knees and ankles.  I am missing half of the cartilage on my right knee and I am somewhat bow legged. I could never get comfortable on clipless and inevitably some part of my right leg would hurt no matter how I adjusted them.  When I first started riding, I used clips and straps and had no trouble with my legs but I have wide feet and I found that getting the strap tight enough to be useful resulted on my pinkie toe going numb after a while.   When I finally tried just using a flat pedal, I knew I would never go back.  It was way too comfortable. 

The only thing I miss about using SPD's is the feeling of being more connected to the bike.  Throwing it around on trails was easier.

[Patch T]

I like it all - except toe clips :) 

After refusing to "clip in" for many years, I finally tried SPDs 5 or 6 years ago and really enjoy the power transfer I perceive (actual or imagined, who cares? I like it) and a sense of connection or connectedness to the pedals, cranks, bike. 

I've learned that I prefer mountain bike style over road style SPDs for both my road and not-road bikes (using apparently discontinued? wide Lake MX1 lace-ups), as I enjoy walking with ease and a normal posture. 

I still use platform pedals, specifically MKS Lambdas on commuter and camping bikes, and use a variety of shoes and boots. I've not tried the more recent iterations on this now iconic Lambda pedal, mostly because they just last forever and I cannot yet justify a new purchase.

I have enough overlap on too many of my bikes to like toe clips/cages. I recall disliking how much my foot would bend behind the pedal with big efforts,  but I admit I never tried a rigid soled shoe with them.

Patch in NYC

[J S]

I rode with clips and straps for most of my riding years (started I believe with them in the mid ‘70’s on my first 10 speed. I tried clipless in the ‘90’s (frogs) but took a bad spill when I was unable to disengage hurting my leg, and back to clips and straps. After my second back surgery and riding again I took all the clips and straps off of my bikes adding platform pedals. It was a matter of safety so I could put a leg out if needed. I never missed the clips and straps. 

On Sunday, December 24, 2023 at 8:44:43 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:

[Tom M]

White Industries urban pedals (or MKS equivalents) and half-clips on my bikes, including the tandem. Tried Look pedals for a year and, while I like the way they felt, I never got comfortable clipping in and clipping out for traffic lights etc. Went to half-clips and never regretted it. I like the retention half-clips give, as well as the ability to quickly put a foot down when needed. And I'm slow enough that whatever efficiency I lose compared with clipless probably doesn't matter.

Tom in Alexandria, VA

[Richard Rose]

My journey is very simple to JS’s but without the mishaps. ‘70’s toe clips & straps (PX10) all the way to clipless. Rode clipless (Speedplay road, mostly eggbeater’s MTB) for years / decades without incident. Decided to give large platforms a try maybe 10 years ago - do not remember why - and have never looked back. I was riding MTB primarily & got bored I think with clipless. I found there to be a learning curve with platforms on rowdy trails & enjoyed the challenge. I cannot imagine ever clipping in again.

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 25, 2023, at 10:30 AM, J S <jrst...@gmail.com> wrote:

I rode with clips and straps for most of my riding years (started I believe with them in the mid ‘70’s on my first 10 speed. I tried clipless in the ‘90’s (frogs) but took a bad spill when I was unable to disengage hurting my leg, and back to clips and straps. After my second back surgery and riding again I took all the clips and straps off of my bikes adding platform pedals. It was a matter of safety so I could put a leg out if needed. I never missed the clips and straps. 

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[Ted Durant]

On Sunday, December 24, 2023 at 7:44:43 PM UTC-6 Patrick Moore wrote:

But I'm curious how many on this RBW list like and use retention and how many don't; and of the former, how many use toe clips and how many use clipless systems -- and what kind.

I started riding bikes in 1968. In 1978 I got my first pair of Detto Pietro shoes. I've been through cleats, Avocets, SPD, MKS Mapstage, Time ATAC, Egg Beater, and now I almost exclusively ride in sneakers (Lems) on flat pedals (mostly Riv's Clem pedals). The most efficient "directly attached to the rear wheel" system I ever felt was a pair of Delrin cleats that Pino Morroni machined for Grant. They snapped perfectly into Campy NR pedals, and you didn't even need a strap unless you really pulled straight up on them. All the systems that "float" were absolutely terrible for me. My heels would rotate to the float limits, creating a large amount of rotational strain on my knees. I found Egg Beaters with zero float cleats to be the best for my needs, and I still have them on my Riv Road, which is set up for fast group riding.  Also, like Wesley, my wife and I find cleated pedals to be very important on the tandem - no more feet flying off the pedals at inopportune moments. I liked having cleated pedals and shoes for the short downtown part of my commute, where I would often need to accelerate hard to keep up with the traffic flow.  Since I retired I haven't had a single time when I've been clipless (meaning no binding system at all!) that I have wished for something holding my feet to the pedals. On the contrary, I am finding that my feet, ankles, knees, and hips are much, much happier, especially on long rides. I love being able to shift my feet forward and back, sometimes on the ball, sometimes the arch, depending on the terrain and the level of effort.

My father-in-law started doing some more recreational biking in his retirement. The shop that sold him a new bike insisted he needed toe clips and straps. At an intersection with some sand on the pavement (April in Wisconsin!) he used his front brake and went down. In trying to pull his foot from the pedal he very badly tore up the ligaments in his knee. Needless to say, when he got back on the bike the next year, I had tossed the clips and straps.

Ted Durant

Milwaukee WI USA

[George Schick]

Seems like a lot of replies in this discussion center around where one does most of his/her riding.  If it's mostly start/stop urban streets, then yes platform pedals would be safer.  On lightly traveled country roads and bike paths, though, clipless would be workable and probably desirable, leg joints dependent (unless there are lots of street crossings).

My history goes back to the mid-to-late 60's/early 70's during the so-called "bike boom" when the go-to book for everyone was Sloane's "The Complete Book of Bicycling."  Sloane heavily endorsed pedal retention - toe clips, straps, and shoe cleats back then (because clipless pedals hadn't been invented yet) - for serious cycling.  I got hooked on it and moved forward with that philosophy in mind.  Younger riders, especially Riv-influenced ones, have adopted a different pedaling experience.

One minor bump in the road in recent decades was this "fixie" movement adopted mostly by Millennials where a large number of those types would have been in big trouble using pedal retention systems.  I've noticed that that fad came and went rather quickly.

[Tim Bantham]

I am currently using both clip in and flat pedals. I still do roadie group rides with my fellow MAMILs on my Serotta. I use Speedplay pedals for that. I also have a modern mountain bike with SPDs . On my Sam Hillborne I ride flat pedals. If I had my druthers I'd ride flat pedals most of the time. I love riding in sandals because of the chill vibe that it promotes. When I'm on my Hillborne I'm mostly riding alone or on bike paths with friends/family.

At the start of last season I developed pain in one of my knees. I later determined that it was due to my cleat placement on my cycling shoe.  I had purchased new cleats during the winter months and carelessly mounted them on my shoes without taking note of the exact placement of the previous cleats. After developing the knee pain I ended up going to my LBS and having the bike fitter take a look at my pedal stroke. Sure enough my cleat needed to be moved inboard on the shoe to solve the problem. All of that to say I wonder if clipping in is worth it when you consider how sensitive my knees are to precise cleat placement. At this point I'm still using both.

[rlti...@gmail.com]

I just remembered I also used Power Grips which was a nice combination of foot retention and normal shoes. The one downside to power grips was that they needed to be adjusted for shoes that were materially different in size from the shoes used to set up the straps. Chuck Taylor’s vs hiking boots for example. I set mine up a bit loose for Chuck’s which worked for most of the shoes I used with the Power Grips.

Robert Tilley

San Diego, CA

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 24, 2023, at 9:08 PM, rlti...@gmail.com wrote:



[Patrick Moore]

If I ever build a dedicated shopping bike I think I'll try no-retention again, but this time without pinned pedals; it was the pins that annoyed me when I tried platforms a couple of years ago because they were always holding the shoe (and I bought a nice pair of platform cycling shoes) in the wrong places and made it hard to shift the soles to the right places. But something like MKS Urbans, perhaps with half clips, sounds very likely.

I tend to mash gears, which means I often will pull back or up -- briefly -- on inclines or when turning into winds; retention has obvious advantages here and, in fact, the reason I went back to SPDs after a couple of years commuting with clips and straps but no cleats on my rubber soled Timberlands and Basses and so on was that I was always pulling the shoes out of the straps or, if the straps were tight, pulling my feet out of the shoes. 

But I agree, for convenience there's nothing like a comfortable, sturdy street shoe with sufficiently stiff or thick sole and sufficiently wide and flat pedal for all-round convenience. I do find that SPDs, even on my road bike, allow me the next best thing, since I can walk pretty easily in my several pairs of mtb SPD shoes. Since I follow the Chinese custom (inherited from Chin/Am ex-wife) of not wearing shoes indoors (ick!!) it's almost as easy to slip into SPDs as into street shoes when I go out for a ride.

 -- Speaking of which, recall the time 3-4 years ago when I had to hike home ~5 miles in my SPD shoes after a sharp stick poked a big hole in y rear tubless tire (and all my plugs just disappeared into the cavity; later got some big plugs). I made it, but man, decent civvie shoes would have been more comfortable.

[Patrick Moore]

Thinking out loud: if I ever get a replacement frame for the Monocog, which I use for most of time when I run the dog, I may well try Urbans or the wonderful value-for-money GR-1s, plus MKS X-deep clips and loose straps (with toe clip buttons and strap pads, of course, just for style). I like the GR-1s so much that some years ago I tried Urbans and then went back to the GR-1s because I liked their flip-tab better.

To make the inevitably rough GR-1s buttery (or at least relatively) smooth: upend in vise, dribble in plenty of Phil Tenacious oil, leave for 24 hours, wipe down, install, and ride them a lot. I think I've actually overhauled the wee bearings but at $35 on Amazon there's almost no point, and they'll outlast my use.

[Jason Fuller]

I used SPD's when I raced XC, but never enjoyed them.  I ride reasonably long distances (50 to 130 miles) and while I'm sure I'm losing a little bit of oomph on the climbs, my knees are much happier when I can move my foot around at will.  I prefer flats for riding on slippery or sketchy stuff, which I tend to do just about every ride, and really appreciate being able to wear any shoe - most of my riding pals are struggling to keep their toes warm over winter, limited by their cycling shoes, though there are some good winter shoes out there these days. 

I've thought about giving them a try again, but I've realized there's just no reason to for me - I don't care about the marginal gains and I would feel limited with how I like to ride 

[Garth]

No retention at all for me for that last 20 some years. Since my feet are positioned more midfoot and the pedals have good pins to grip Altra Lone Peaks(w/150mm cranks), I have no need for anything else. I have no pins on the other side and the even then my feet stay in place from feel. .Since moving my saddle all the way forward I find my pedaling has become even more effective/efficient. Torque + pedal speed = vroom sensation = FUN !  I think I'm going to get a zero setback post to try as I'm close to the limit on the Cobb saddle with a Ritchey 25mm setback post. As the foot is placed more midfoot, I feel much more "planted" to the cranks from my trunk/core. Now that I'm going more forward of the BB, I find an aero position more comfortable, and now feet are more angled forward/down than before. Picture the classic Roadrunner cartoon where at full speed and side angle, the RR's head is forward of the feet, the entire body is leaning forward, and the RR is just chillin' doing it. The more forward I am of the BB, I'm pushing more back with my entire body to the wheel/chainstays, rather than pushing down or forward with my body further back of the BB. It's also less strenuous on everything, go figure. So now I'm in complete rethink of frame design, I could use a much steeper seat tube angle, 73.5-74 ish. This isn't stuff anyone can teach, other than encouraging the exploration/creativity to find your way as to what works and what doesn't.

[Patrick Moore]

You must be the forgotten heir of Alexi Grewal who notoriously rode a Clark Kent frame with hugely steep seat tube to get comfortable and powerful.

Patrick Moore, who feels the power and likes the bend to the hooks with saddle slammed all the way back on a 73* seat tube with highish offset DA post.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/debb503e-85b7-4f51-856a-d73a3fd7aab8n%40googlegroups.com.

[Ted Durant]

On Monday, December 25, 2023 at 2:02:38 PM UTC-6 Patrick Moore wrote:

If I ever build a dedicated shopping bike I think I'll try no-retention again, but this time without pinned pedals; it was the pins that annoyed me when I tried platforms a couple of years ago because they were always holding the shoe (and I bought a nice pair of platform cycling shoes) in the wrong places and made it hard to shift the soles to the right places. 

That's one of the reasons I love the Clem pedals ... plastic bodies, no pins, but the grip with the sneakers I wear is quite good.

One of the things I took away from the Pino setup was the importance of matching shoes and pedals together. Even with cleat and binding systems, some shoes work better than others with a given system. Crank Brothers got pretty smart about that, creating a system of shims and spacers to optimize the fit. Binding-less pedals also have to be matched with compatible shoes. I've experienced a similar issue as Patrick, where the pins on a pedal don't line up nicely with the bottom of a shoe, and spent the whole ride trying to find a comfortable foot placement.

[Patrick Moore]

Now that's worth learning; good information. 

On Mon, Dec 25, 2023 at 1:30 PM Ted Durant <tedd...@gmail.com> wrote:

... 

[Garth]

Nice Patrick !   Perfect body position, for me and he, apparently !

[SallyG]

As always, I'm learning lots from the conversation! Thank you, always a pleasure.

To add my non-technical two cents:

I used to ride with toe clips/leather straps. They have (probably) saved my life...and also caused me harm. Riding my second-hand Raleigh Gran Sport fast down a steep grade in the southern Alps (NZ), I hit a big pothole with my front tire. I was thrown off my seat and over the handlebars...held back by the one foot that remained in a toe clip. So thankful for that! On the other hand, one day back in Calif., starting off uphill, I ungracefully keeled over and fractured my elbow. Then had to drive a stick-shift car to the hospital for x-rays...

My (still new-ish) Clem is my first bike without pedal retention and I feel kind of like a kid again, just having fun. But I can't say I don't sometimes think of 531 Reynolds and the things that go with it!

[Bernard Duhon]

Cages & straps in the 70’s.  Turned into an occasional cyclists till early 90’s.  When I returned, all the “serious” cyclist had Look’s.  I couldn’t go that far cause of the duckwalk. SPD it was.  The real bikers looked down on my inefficient touring shoes.  My commuter & errand bike had flat pedals, on & off with cages/straps.  Finally ditched cages 5 or 6 years ago. 

I decided to go flat (Lambda, took em off unused wife’s bike) for a weeklong tour on my Waterford “Atlantis” build.  With spd’s the ball of your foot is on top of pedal spindle.  Flat, the arch of your foot is on top of the spindle.  Less leg extension, so lower your saddle, there is more toe overlap and finally slightly different muscles are used.   I trained with the same set up on my road bike, when riding with the ‘‘fast” group.  Lo & behold just as efficient.     I won’t ditch my spd shoes & pedals. I got em I’ll use em.     

 

 

From: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of SallyG
Sent: Monday, December 25, 2023 4:12 PM
To: RBW Owners Bunch <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [RBW] "Grant hates toe clips."

 

As always, I'm learning lots from the conversation! Thank you, always a pleasure.

 

To add my non-technical two cents:

 

I used to ride with toe clips/leather straps. They have (probably) saved my life...and also caused me harm. Riding my second-hand Raleigh Gran Sport fast down a steep grade in the southern Alps (NZ), I hit a big pothole with my front tire. I was thrown off my seat and over the handlebars...held back by the one foot that remained in a toe clip. So thankful for that! On the other hand, one day back in Calif., starting off uphill, I ungracefully keeled over and fractured my elbow. Then had to drive a stick-shift car to the hospital for x-rays...

 

My (still new-ish) Clem is my first bike without pedal retention and I feel kind of like a kid again, just having fun. But I can't say I don't sometimes think of 531 Reynolds and the things that go with it!

 

 

 

On Monday, December 25, 2023 at 12:51:51 PM UTC-8 Garth wrote:

Nice Patrick !   Perfect body position, for me and he, apparently !

On Monday, December 25, 2023 at 3:29:08 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:

You must be the forgotten heir of Alexi Grewal who notoriously rode a Clark Kent frame with hugely steep seat tube to get comfortable and powerful.

 

 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/8f639f58-06e5-4bed-a633-a690dbbc8b60n%40googlegroups.com.

[Bernard Duhon]

I have a couple of Thompson 0 setback seatpost if your interested.

 

From: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Garth
Sent: Monday, December 25, 2023 2:23 PM
To: RBW Owners Bunch <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [RBW] "Grant hates toe clips."

 

No retention at all for me for that last 20 some years. Since my feet are positioned more midfoot and the pedals have good pins to grip Altra Lone Peaks(w/150mm cranks), I have no need for anything else. I have no pins on the other side and the even then my feet stay in place from feel. .Since moving my saddle all the way forward I find my pedaling has become even more effective/efficient. Torque + pedal speed = vroom sensation = FUN !  I think I'm going to get a zero setback post to try as I'm close to the limit on the Cobb saddle with a Ritchey 25mm setback post. As the foot is placed more midfoot, I feel much more "planted" to the cranks from my trunk/core. Now that I'm going more forward of the BB, I find an aero position more comfortable, and now feet are more angled forward/down than before. Picture the classic Roadrunner cartoon where at full speed and side angle, the RR's head is forward of the feet, the entire body is leaning forward, and the RR is just chillin' doing it. The more forward I am of the BB, I'm pushing more back with my entire body to the wheel/chainstays, rather than pushing down or forward with my body further back of the BB. It's also less strenuous on everything, go figure. So now I'm in complete rethink of frame design, I could use a much steeper seat tube angle, 73.5-74 ish. This isn't stuff anyone can teach, other than encouraging the exploration/creativity to find your way as to what works and what doesn't.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/debb503e-85b7-4f51-856a-d73a3fd7aab8n%40googlegroups.com.

[Ted Durant]

On Dec 25, 2023, at 4:41 PM, Bernard Duhon <ber...@bernardduhon.com> wrote:



Less leg extension, so lower your saddle, there is more toe overlap and finally slightly different muscles are used.  

I found the same. I lowered my saddle height both for slightly less shoe+pedal stack height and for foot positioning. 

Ted Durant

Milwaukee, WI USA

[Marc Irwin]

I used clipess for years and thought they were the greatest thing ever until one broke.  I immediately switched back to the old platforms  with toeclips "temporarily."  All I noticed when I changed back was that the shoes were more comfortable. I don't think the clipless did anything for me.  I'm sure they make a difference for racers and people who live on their power meter stats and count grams for a hobby, but I've switched to spiky platforms on four of my bikes and two have MKS Urban Platforms with strapless toeclips.  They work great (I never tightened the straps anyway) and I can actually wear comfortable shoes, that I can walk in also!

Marc

[ascpgh]

My modern cycling (80s onward) has been all with clips and straps then clipless (SPD). 

Weeks after buying my first MTB I coincidentally trashed my right knee (not bike related injury) and it sat unused for almost nine months. When I began riding again it was on a Minoura track stand and required clips and straps to keep my errant right foot on the pedal since it tended to float off the pedal.  In an ill-advised move, I chose to get off the stand and go outside. First on my parent's half mile dead end road, then farther. My right foot continued to require clips and straps as I regained both leg strength and proprioception. I had to become a left foot stop/prop rider after years of doing that with my right foot. As my strength recovered, I  even used Keirin double strap clips before venturing into clipless.  

I got my cycling mojo back and then some. I rode off road  strapped in tightly and had a cat like left hand swat to loosen the buckle of my on/off foot strap. I became discriminating about shoes as the tightened buckles would wear into the uppers quickly. When adopting SPDs I learned how important the show pedal interface was and how critical fit was.

I've been SPD since their distribution began, best for me with Sidi Dominators. My love of fine clip and strap pedals waned despite my history and return to cycling because of them. My last pair were an XC Comp-bodied, Superbe Pro track-caged set that came on my MB-0, traded to (and perhaps the ones mentioned by) Patrick. 

The shoes matter much, they dictate the alignment to the pedals when clipped in so if your foot isn't in them well, the pedals won't . I strongly agree with the BQ "Icons" selection of the Sidi Dominators. They fit me, my foot is in the right place on my SPDs with the right amount of movement for all of my riding. It's just how I roll. 

Andy Cheatham

Pittsburgh

[Piaw Na]

I've been riding SPDs since the mid 1990s when they finally became affordable. On my tandem/triplet we had one crash caused my the too long for my kid toe strap getting caught in the timing ring. After that I got SPD click'r pedals for my kids and they've been riding clipless SPDs since. (The hard part was getting SPD shoes small enough for them --- I ended up buying the first few pairs used from other cycling families) 

I went to flat pedals for about a year on the MTB --- this was a period when I had to get off my bike every so often, run down to the kids and push them up the mountain. After a while they got strong enough that a tow rope hitched to my bike could drag them up the mountains, so I switched back to SPDs and it felt so good.

One thing about SPD is that I never got technically good enough at bunny hopping that I could do it without SPDs, but with SPDs I can do it all day any time, which is probably a silly reason to like SPDs. And no, my kids and I aren't good enough to bunny hop the tandem.

[RichS]

If you have been riding long enough you have likely tried the myriad types of retention and non-retention systems (including shoes). Keds and flats on my Stingray, Avocet (I think) shoes with clips and straps on my early 80s Trek, clip-ins that my 2000s cycling friends told me I "had to have". Ultimately being clipped or strapped in was a no go due to the frequncy of being in and out of the pedal on my mostly urban rides. I've been happily pedaling free for years using MKS Grip Kings, Adidas 5/10s and William Lennon leather shoes. 

Best,

Rich in ATL

[Ian A]

One of the main reasons I have ridden SPD on my bikes for distance riding is for the foot support SPD shoes have offered and the fact I am not chewing up or wearing out all my shoes and runners. For commuting, I tend to wear light weight hiking boots and those work great with flat pedals. I rarely ever wear normal shoes or runners when cycling at all now. 

IanA

[Patrick Moore]

On Tue, Dec 26, 2023 at 2:21 PM Piaw Na <pi...@gmail.com> wrote:

... After a while [the kids] got strong enough that a tow rope hitched to my bike could drag them up the mountains, so I switched back to SPDs and it felt so good.

Now, a picture of this would be delightful to see, tho' I expect that logistics mean that there are none.

 

One thing about SPD is that I never got technically good enough at bunny hopping that I could do it without SPDs, but with SPDs I can do it all day any time, which is probably a silly reason to like SPDs.

I saved my life once long ago, using SPDs,  when I was cranking hard along a dirt path at ~20 + mph* and suddenly came up to a wheel-size hole or ditch. Fortunately I was able to spontaneously bunny hop it at speed, saving both myself and my bike from a catastrophic endo. 

* I was racing, or trying to race a youth on a small dirt motorcycle some yards to my West.

[Piaw Na(藍俊彪)]

On Tue, Dec 26, 2023 at 5:56 PM Patrick Moore <bert...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tue, Dec 26, 2023 at 2:21 PM Piaw Na <pi...@gmail.com> wrote:

... After a while [the kids] got strong enough that a tow rope hitched to my bike could drag them up the mountains, so I switched back to SPDs and it felt so good.

Now, a picture of this would be delightful to see, tho' I expect that logistics mean that there are none.

Here's a picture, not of me, but of a friend towing his kid with the same tow rope: https://www.amazon.com/photos/shared/FMMMR4CqT1m5_gn5qV8TTQ.h2vUZWd66nwCvh8me5tNjf

 

[George Cline]

The Blahg also references Skid Lids! Our little bike club in eastern San Diego County had a limited sponsorship from Skid Lid back back in the day. I found them very comfortable and used my Skid Lid for several years. Funny, but I don't remember ever having a chin strap! Maybe we removed them because they weren't very comfortable.

Here's a shot of me and my Skid Lid, (on the right in the green "Cool Gear" Jersey while riding the Mexicali-San Felipe fun ride, no chin strap there!

George in NoCal

[Philip Williamson]

I ride flats with pins.

Fixed, technical singletrack, road, commuting. 

I started with clips and plastic straps on mountain bike bear trap pedals, then rode SPDs and then Eggbeaters. When my kid was little, I made platforms for the eggbeaters by screwing cleats to platforms I cut out of old skateboard decks so I could jump on the bike whenever my kid wanted to go out for a ride. After riding on these platforms in all kinds of conditions, like fixed gear singletrack, I realized I just needed platform pedals, and I could retire the eggbeaters and the couture clip-in platforms. 

I try to cycle my shoes (mostly Chrome Kursks) from nice, to everyday, to bike. 

Philip

Sonoma County, Cal. 

[Caroline Golum]

I could never commit to full clips, and don't have a very "roadie" set-up on my bike, so for the last 10+ years I've done a combo of the MKS compact pedals and their half clips. I find it helpful when biking in heels, boots, flats, whatever, since I only ride in athletic shoes when I'm going a longer distance. 

[Brian Turner]

I only ride big, wide platforms with pins. I like the comfort and freedom of riding in whatever shoes I want. Makes it easier to just jump on the bike and go without having to think too much about wearing a special shoe or article of clothing. None of the riding I do would benefit from foot retention. That said, there are certain shoes I will wear for certain types of riding: around town or casual riding = vans or Blundstone boots. Rougher terrain or trail riding: Five Ten Freeriders. All-day rides: something with a stiffer shank, like a lightweight hiking shoe.