Silver2 shifters have arrived!

[dougP]

The long awaited Silver 2 shifters have arrived, just in time for the holidays: 

https://www.rivbike.com/collections/shifting/products/kjalgjoihjga44451

The mounts for upright bars are delayed a bit but the shifters also work as bar ends & down tubes.  Treat yourself to something nice; maybe buy a spare pair "just in case".  Shifters sold individually so you can do all sorts of crazy things.  See the website for which-goes-where. 

dougP

[James Warren]

Yes, exciting. I tested them out at Riv the other day, and I like them a lot. Very nice under the bar positioning as thumbshifters.

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[Jeffrey B]

Any chance these are compatible with sunrace Thumb shifter mounts? Asking for a friend...

[Joe Bernard]

I don't think so. I asked on Instagram (I think Will runs it) if they would fit a Paul mount and he said I would need the (discontinued) adapter.

[Marty Gierke, Stewartstown PA]

Added a pair to the basket, along with a wildlife hatchet. Been waiting a while for both, so it's good timing. Plenty of kindling to make for the winter, and I get to mess with the shifters like a worry-stone until the mounts arrive, or Spring - which ever comes first. 

Marty

[RichS]

Congratulations to Grant and company for bringing the shifters to life. A lot of emotional and financial equity here. Hope they sell a bunch of them.

I use my original Silvers as bar ends and downtubers. I'll be curious to hear how the Silver 2s compare when used in this manner.

Best,

Rich in ATL

[Toshi Takeuchi]

Wow they are gorgeous! I can’t wait to get ‘em on a bike. The original Silver is great but may be slightly long for my taste as bar ends. These will be perfect!

Toshi

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[John Bokman]

How do these differ from the original silver bar-end shifters on my 2009 Sam?

On Thursday, November 28, 2019 at 10:02:12 AM UTC-8, ttoshi wrote:

Wow they are gorgeous! I can’t wait to get ‘em on a bike. The original Silver is great but may be slightly long for my taste as bar ends. These will be perfect!

Toshi

On Wed, Nov 27, 2019 at 7:45 PM dougP <doug...@gmail.com> wrote:

The long awaited Silver 2 shifters have arrived, just in time for the holidays: 

https://www.rivbike.com/collections/shifting/products/kjalgjoihjga44451

The mounts for upright bars are delayed a bit but the shifters also work as bar ends & down tubes.  Treat yourself to something nice; maybe buy a spare pair "just in case".  Shifters sold individually so you can do all sorts of crazy things.  See the website for which-goes-where. 

dougP

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[Joe Bernard]

"How do they differ?"

Shape and length. They copy an old Suntour (SunTour, Sun Tour) thumbshifter which is shorter and has a curve in it similar to a Shimano bar-end. I personally love the long flat blade on Silver bar-ends for the shifting action, but anyone who's used them on Albas or Boscos can tell you about getting trapped "inside" the bar or stabbed in the leg with that long dagger. Not fun!

[Garth]

  Yes, the shape is now copied after the 1980's Suntour Thumbshifters. The innards, while the same as the original Silver levers, is based on the Suntour Sprint road levers, which uses a smaller diameter ratchet design inside than the original mountain Suntour Thumbshifters.  Having both versions, the mountain lever seems to hold the gear better than the road.  As far as I know every copy of Suntour ratcheting levers has been of the road version innards, no one has copied the mountain.

[john Bokman]

Thanks. Makes sense now. I’ll try some.

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[Dorothy C]

I’ve ordered 3 sets - 1 pair to go on my Chocomoose’d Clem as bar ends; and a pair for my Appaloosa and Cheviot to replace their Sunrace M90 thumbies when the new thumb mounts become available.

[Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY]

The new mounts sound awesome, so adjustable! In the meantime, try them on your sunrace mounts, silvers worked fine on mine.
-Kai

[John McClusky]

I usually observe Adbusters’ annual “buy nothing day” today. Instead, I decided to swing by Riv HQ this morning and made a new pair of shifters (and other things) my only black friday purchase. The shifters look fantastic in person. Can’t wait to get them on the Hillborne.

It was also nice to see all the new models in the showroom. There was a well-ridden green Gus I was drooling over. The 2.8 tires looked so fun. Their tall Homer with the curved, second top tub looked pretty amazing, too.

John

[Joe Bernard]

I'm not really a candidate for the goal of those Hillibikes (plus I already own two of the Clem version), but those big tires are sooooo easy to love. I rode a Gus and a Susie around the building and they're awesome!

[Jim Bronson]

Are these available indexed?

*ducks while running out of the room*

Jim

austin, tx, earth

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[Mark Roland]

Description of the shifters on the Rivendell Bicycle Works website store:

"Buying these means buying into an approach to gear that is curiously freakish these days, and has been for 35 years. It’s the idea that a mechanism or tool can be mechanically perfect and virtually unimprovable, while at the same time allowing its user to flub up a shift.

Is a hammer less of a tool than an automatic nail gun? Is a campfire worse for cooking wieners than a microwave just because you can burn it or drop it? Is a shifter a worse shifter because it doesn’t reduce shifting to pushing levers until they click?

The SILVER2 X & O shifters are beautiful, mechanically honest (they don’t shift for you), and are anachronism in 2020, bound to baffle archeological bike geeks in 2060, when they can't find references to them in the'70s or '80s, yet they're clearly weird for any time after that. Friction shifting isn’t hard, but it takes practice, and these are the days when you can buy shifters that shift for you. It can never be said that these X & O shifters suck. They’re as good as you are, and not everybody can handle that. One of the images tomorrow is the best shifting advice ever published, and it will make friction shifting a breeze. You have to practice, but practice THIS way, and you'll be a more skillful shifter than any click-shifting pro."

On Friday, November 29, 2019 at 11:18:00 PM UTC-5, Jim Bronson wrote:

Are these available indexed?

*ducks while running out of the room*

Jim

austin, tx, earth

On Wed, Nov 27, 2019 at 9:45 PM dougP <doug...@gmail.com> wrote:

The long awaited Silver 2 shifters have arrived, just in time for the holidays: 

https://www.rivbike.com/collections/shifting/products/kjalgjoihjga44451

The mounts for upright bars are delayed a bit but the shifters also work as bar ends & down tubes.  Treat yourself to something nice; maybe buy a spare pair "just in case".  Shifters sold individually so you can do all sorts of crazy things.  See the website for which-goes-where. 

dougP

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[Benz, Sunnyvale, CA]

Maybe I missed it, but do these new shifters pull enough cable for the Shimano 10-speed Dyna-Sys mountain derailleurs? I know there’s an ENE “lopsided” version that does, but I’m not sure I can get over the asymmetry. :)

[Joe Bernard]

It doesn't say it on the Rivbike.com listing, but the Instagram post said "works with 10, better with 9", and this is undoubtedly related to the normal derailers they sell. I don't know anything about Dyna-Sys but if that mech expects a longer throw at the shifter then it's no go.

[Benz, Sunnyvale, CA]

On Friday, November 29, 2019 at 11:08:57 PM UTC-8, Joe Bernard wrote:

It doesn't say it on the Rivbike.com listing, but the Instagram post said "works with 10, better with 9", and this is undoubtedly related to the normal derailers they sell. I don't know anything about Dyna-Sys but if that mech expects a longer throw at the shifter then it's no go.

"Works with 10, better with 9" is a bit ambiguous, because Shimano's 10-speed road component requirements are different from 10-speed mountain component requirements. The 10-speed mountain components are Dyna-Sys, and require longer cable pull, but they offer useful functions like clutches to mitigate chain slap. This can be useful for the kind of mixed-terrain routes that Rivendell is known for (before mixed-terrain or gravel became a thing).

Being Dyna-Sys compatible is also good for application flexibility, as users don't have to be concerned about whether a particular rear derailleur will work with this friction shifter; isn't one of the key advantages of friction shifters the ability to work with all derailleurs?

[Joe Bernard]

Like I said, I think the shifter is designed for the derailers Grant/Riv knows and sells. The Deore and Deore XT non-Dyna mechs will work with 10-speed cassettes and Shimano 10 bar-ends and brifters, and the latter can be replaced with Silver2. I don't work there and can't give an official pronouncement, but I would think the longer pull of Dyna-Sys would be incompatible.

[Joe Bernard]

"...isn't one of the key advantages of friction shifters the ability to work with all derailleurs?"

That was one back in the day, yes, but it doesn't really apply now in a world of varying versions of 10, 11, and 12-speed systems. The continued primary advantage of Power Ratchet friction shifters is they're great. I'm going to ditch my 9-speed indexer for a Silver2 on my eClem L because it works better.

[Matt C.]

I would love to know the answer to this as well before ordering a pair. As far as I know dynasis requires about 1.1 mm more pull per shift than Shimano road. I like 10 speed friction for road, so it would be nice to find something that allows for this amount of travel to use for more off road derailleurs. If someone calls Riv and asks, let the rest of us know! Thanks.

Matt Cook in CT

[Adam in Indiana]

I still use Microshift's barend made for Shimano's 10 speed mountain deraileurs, works great. Even better in friction mode. No pretty silver finish, though...

[James / Analog Cycles]

Do these have the same exact ratchet as the previous silver shifters?

On Wednesday, November 27, 2019 at 10:45:53 PM UTC-5, dougP wrote:

[Joe Bernard]

James, Riv says same guts and it certainly feels like it in the stand. I just mounted one on a bar-end but can't ride report yet. Soon!

[J L]

Dynasys / 11s / etc

My experience tells me these levers will not pair well with a Dynasys or 11s RD. In fact, I think the Silver 1 shifters probably offer better adjustability when used as downtube shifters. I use those older style silvers to friction shift a 10s rear cluster on one bike and the levels require a comically light touch to shift. They shift great but I feel like I’m stirring a my tea with a tiny spoon. (This is a fun thing and makes me smile every time. Remember bike riding was fun?!)

Fear not - months back on the riv blog they posted a bike hike to effectively increase the diameter of the level pully. They describe clamping a small plastic tube on the cable just where it exits the lever. Try this with the Silver2 shifter! The bike hack is a thing that anyone can do with hand tools.

Side note - those mismatched levers that VO sells are also jarring to me. I like a mix of symmetry and wabi sabi on my bikes but that one big level one small lever looks off. Someone could pay a machinist to build a matching left hand / front lever and end up with a visually matching set. Couldn’t they?

Jason
SF,CA