eClem again

[Joe Bernard]

My first was my first e-build, a pretty clunky and terrible throttle-only rear hub on a 45cm Clem H. Grant rode it! Then I put a stupid-fast Bafang mid-drive on a 52cm L which was great on the monster hill I lived in back then, but it was a little ridiculous.

Now we have a 45 L frame I just grabbed from the web sale. Yes it looks a bit gangly with all that post and stem showing, but I needed the 26-inch wheels and I knew the size would work with the bolt-upright seating position my arthritis requires now.

The Copenhagen Wheel is late of the All Rounder I recently showed, that lovely bicycle is getting a new non-electric mission now.

Rich-built Deore/Atlas front wheel, mixed Schwalbe 1.75 tires.
Origin8 shorty 145mm cranks, single 42t ring, Paul Chainkeeper.
XT Shadow derailer, SRAM 11-32 (maybe it's 34) cassette, Connex chain.
Shimano 9-speed shifter on Paul mount, left side where my not-so-bad hand can push/pull it.
Avid levers (thanks, Bill!).
Nitto cromo upjutter stem, cromo Boscos shortened one inch, Jones H Grips, German mirror.
Stock post, Brooks ti B17.
Bombshell v-brakes.
Deity pedals (thanks, Analog Cycles!)

I need to shorten the cables up, add a rack and Happisack, maybe some wood fenders a listmember (WETH?) gave me years ago and take better pics. Enjoy these now!

Joe Bernard
Novato CA.

[Joe Bernard]

Due to the overwhelming response to this, I've decided to show updated photos. Ok no one responded but I'm doing it anyway!

Pardon the recycling bin as kickstand, it was crazy windy out there and I needed something sturdy so my shiney new bicycle didn't go crashing to the ground. I finally got to use the wood fenders Erl (WETH) giftee me years ago, and they look sooo nice with the grilver. That big red hub kinda interrupts the whole thing, but the upcoming rack and panniers should calm that effect a bit. It's SUCH a great bike..Clem(entine)s rule!

[Joe Bernard]

Yes I know I need to cut the stays on the rear fender. I've already kicked them like you do when a car has a trailer hitch sticking out. OW!

[Ian A]

Looking good, Joe, especially properly dressed with fenders. I am curious about the Copenhagen wheel. From what I understand it is entirely self-contained, app controlled and pedal assist only. Seems like almost the perfect electric bicycle solution. It remains a bicycle, albeit a bionic version.

If you could expand on the way the hub works and feels in practical day to day riding, it would be interesting to learn more. What sort of range does it allow?

IanA Alberta Canada

[Joe Bernard]

Hi Ian,

Yes, it's the most "bicycle like" of all the systems I've messed with, and I've messed with a bunch. The motor, controller and battery are all in the hub so there's no hassle with finding places to mount things, and no wires ziptied to the frame. You power on with a switch on the wheel, then the assist levels are managed on a phone app.

It's torque-sensing so the harder you pedal, the more "tailwind" it gives you. One cool feature with this is you can slow right down to a crawl on a very sharp turn - like in a park or parking lot - then press the pedal and the power picks right back up to get you out of it. I've ridden cadence systems where this wasn't possible, if the pedals were moving you had power trying to jet you forward..there's no fighting the motor with the Copenhagen Wheel. Top speed is 25mph for the US market, which is about as fast as I want to go on a Clem. It may be 25kph for Canada, I don't know the ebike laws there.

Range is limited due to the small battery required to fit in the casing. I can get around 30 miles if I stay out of full power (Turbo) and don't jam the pedals all day; easily dropping down to 10 for Turbo blasts. It's an urban A to B system, you won't be doing any touring unless you ride long stretches with O power. I'm going to try 50-miler at some point, though, just to see if I can realistically do one. It pedals fine in O, just heavy..I'll bet with some judicious running in 0 and Eco and coasting down hills I could pull it off.

Another feature - which is exclusive to this wheel - is it supposedly "learns" how you ride and adapts the system to you. In practice this benefit is invisible, but I love the way everything works so maybe that's part of it.

The one major drawback is the same as all hub drive ebikes: pulling that heavy bolt-on wheel for a flat is not going to be fun out on the road. I use a thick Schwalbe tire and hope for the best! 🙏🤞

[Joe Bernard]

Btw, a disclaimer: I like motorbikes as Grant calls them and know they aren't classically bicycles, it's a different thing. I also like Rivendells better than any other bicycles, they do everything I like and nothing I don't. So sometimes I combine the two things into a Rivendell motorbike, and all frame warranties real or implied or hoped for are bupkus. The Copenhagen Wheel works on this bike and I dig it, but Grant didn't design it for this. It's on me 🙋‍♂️

[WETH]

Joe, the fenders look great. So glad you could put them to good use.
All the best,
Erl

[Joe Bernard]

Thanks, Erl!

[Ian A]

Thanks for the info Joe. That's a seriously impressive system.

IanA

[Jim D Massachusetts]

Thanks for the info. Did you buy the wheel from a dealer or direct from the mfg?         Jim D       Massachusetts

[Joe Bernard]

Used. I got it from a guy selling on Bentrider Online.

[Kiley Demond]

Hey, Joe: This is so cool! It is still on my "to do" list and I will get it done in the next couple of years. Thank you for all the investigative work; I doubt I would attempt it without your pioneering. The Clem is still the best Riv bike to 'electrify', yes? -Kiley

P.S. I came back to the Bay Area (Peninsula) twice this past summer for work. It was so crowded I didn't venture out much, every place made me think about how fortunate I was to be there for 30 years (1984-2014), and not there now. I think I have completely adapted to the AZ high country! 

[Joe Bernard]

Hi Kiley!

Yes, I think Clem is an excellent Riv for a project like this, but really any model with v-brakes and moderately stout tubes will do. It's a significant weight and power gain, so I would lean towards bikes designed at the outset for full loads.

[REC (Roberta)]

Joe,

I really like the look of that wheel with the Clem L--those two belong together, even more than the wheel with the All Rounder. 

Happy riding,

Roberta

[Joe Bernard]

Thanks, Roberta! I appreciate this more than you know because I've been struggling with how the wheel looks. Not enough to remove it - I'm not crazy! (some would disagree) - but it's so RED. I'll work on seeing it with your eyes 🙂

[Abcyclehank]

Joe,

I agree with Roberta it definitely looks like it belongs on the Clem L. The red is definitely attention generating initially I thought a more subdued color would be desired.
Now the color symbolizes for me that the owner is a bike lover first but open to enhancing their riding experience whether out of need or desire. In my opinion the pedal assist nature of the Copenhagen Wheel separates into a completely different e-bike than throttle based versions.
Ryan “joining the club today” Hankinson

[Joe Bernard]

Indeed, Ryan, one thing I like about its extreme noticeability is I don't feel like I'm lying when I pass some poor carbon roadie wondering why that old guy on a step-thru just blew by him. The wheel says "I have a motor, I'm not trying to pull one over on you, Lance!"

[REC (Roberta)]

With the wheel, I actually liked the look with the red bag you had originally on it (and that is from someone with all black bags).  To me it says "I'm accessorizing with red."

[lconley]

Do they make a 700c wheel? - The red would go well on a Betty Foy.

Laing

Cocoa FL

[Joe Bernard]

I told Leah I might do red cables (I have some stashed around here somewhere). Whaddyathink?

[Joe Bernard]

Laing: Yes, they make 26" and 700C. There's also a singlespeed version for 120 dropouts like Quickbeam.

[Ash]

Indeed!  The red bag you had on in one of the pictures goes very well with the wheel color.

Red cables, pedals and grips are optional ;)

Clem is definitely the best candidate out there for electrification.  The most ergonomic, comfortable, durable and practical utility bike with some power assist.  The utility factor goes up 5x.

[REC (Roberta)]

+1 for what Ash said:

”Indeed! The red bag you had on in one of the pictures goes very well with the wheel color.

Red cables, pedals and grips are optional ;)”

[Tom Horton]

joe, have you or anyone looked at the british Cytronex system?  it's a front wheel version of the copenhagen wheel that seems lighter and perhaps more range, and is reviewed well in british bike mags...costs about a thousand bucks....    tom horton    and yes to the red wheel!

[Joe Bernard]

Tom: I'm not familiar with it, but the reviews I just read present it as a fairly basic and common front hub system that tops out at a UK enforced 15.5 mph. It uses cadence not torque-sensing, so the power is either on or not..it's not reacting to human inputs beyond getting the pedals spinning. Also it has the common setup of cage-mount battery, sensor and display, with wires running to each and to the motor. None of these are deal breakers by any means, they just don't address any of the benefits of the Copenhagen. Well, price and weight may be lower, which are viable considerations.

As the resident "Hey Riv Riders, ebikes are fun!" guy around here, I feel obligated to offer a very strong warning/disclaimer about motors on Riv forks: NOPE. Those blades are slender enough that I wouldn't even weld a disc tab on without beefing them up, so I can't recommend popping a power source in there. Rivs make excellent e-conversions with mid-drives and rear hubs. Do dat 👍

[tom horton]

very useful info joe, thanks much; especially on the considerations of slender front forks. tom

[Joe Bernard]

You're welcome, Tom, and apologies if I come off as an arrogant know-it-all. I've done a lot of research - including spending WAY too much money on mistakes - on this stuff, and hope to pass some of it along so others can skip some expensive steps. I fear that can sound more admonishing than helpful, but helping is the intent.

[tom horton]

ha, i’ve worked as a journalist all over the world for 45 years joe. you don’t come close to arrogant know it alls. I know

[Joe Bernard]

Back by popular demand, it's the red Rivelo/RandiJoFab camera bag! Which is actually orange but who's counting. Also a shiney new Nitto S83 for a little more setback and that 2-bolt goodness, and a less shiney new Pletscher kickstand..the new "touring" model from Riv with the adjustable leg. And bread.

[Ash]

This is such a practical build.  I've been starting at these pictures for last 10 mins.  It is so well configured.  Handlebar position/height, seat nose lift, drive train, fenders, pedals.. they all seem just perfect!   I feel that this one will stay in your stable way longer than past few bikes. Have fun!

[Joe Bernard]

Thanks Ash! It's kind of crazy how well it's come together almost by accident. This started as a 26" e-wheel I bought for a recumbent, then I decided that it (bents) just weren't going to work out for me. So I posted a WTB here for a 45cm Clem and got nothing, but an All Rounder popped up so I grabbed that.

THEN this 45 Clem L frame got discovered in the rafters at RBW and they put it on the Garage Sale page. Sold! I decided my original plan to have the wheel on there made more sense than the AR, then I remembered those wood fenders that had been in a closet for ages and here we are!

I still have a custom coming and I'm super excited about it, but I'm keeping this one forever as my ebike. I can tell just like you're saying that it's special, it works perfectly for me, and I couldn't duplicate its specialness with something else. I nailed this one and I'm keeping it!

[Abcyclehank]

I disagree with Ash completely. Looks awkward, That big red rear wheel looks ridiculous and clown 🤡 like. I am sure this bike will not last long before you are off on your next hair brained
e-modification project. Also no demand for 26” e-wheels so you will need to take a big loss when you sell it.
SO CALL ME FIRST AND I WILL BUY IT JUST BECAUSE I FEEL BAD FOR YOU.
Ryan Hankinson

WestMichigan

[Joe Bernard]

You're right, Ryan, this whole thing is ridiculous and I shall GIVE you my Copenhagen Wheel SO YOU CAN HAVE ONE ON YOUR BOMBADIL TO GO WITH THE ONE ON YOUR QUICKBEAM 👍

[Abcyclehank]

Actually Joe your vision has been brilliant. Any Rivendell makes a great Copenhagen wheel pedal assist conversion for the following reasons. They are beautiful and well designed bikes by Grant and company that perform masterfully. They all (other than the Hubbuhubbuh) are rim brake only as is the Bright RED Copenhagen wheel (conventional rim).
Everything is self contained and simply provides a pedal boost on acceleration. The more force on the pedals the more boost. Three modes Eco, Standard, and Turbo can be selected and completely forgotten about if you throw your phone in a bike bag or rear pocket and forget about it as I do (95% eco for me). Joe I know you have nicely mounted your phone and can use the settings almost as gears for the challenging hills etc you have in your locale.
I am switching my Quickbeam back to it’s single speed fiction since it is what I often ride during date rides with my beautiful
Wife when she is on her geared 53cm couplered Atlantis with 26” wheels; this maintains a balanced riding relationship since she only rides about 5% as much as me but is a strong rider when she does.
I do really want the wheel though Joe as we already discussed personally because I think with a Copenhagen wheel of her own she would ride with me much more and I can ride one of my
8 speed derailered Rivendells.
Even in Eco she would have a slight riding advantage on our joint riding and the 40-50+ mile range would lengthen some of our outings.
Can not recommend this wheel enough to any and all Riv riders who have significant others they would like to ride more with.

Sincerely,
Ryan “all the e-bike I need for the next 20 years” Hankinson
West Michigan

[tom horton]

ryan, do you assume a 40-50 mile range in eco, or have you gotten that? I’m interested because I live in flat country and would, if I had an e machine, use mostly eco, or nothing…that kind of range is in the range that makes me interested. tom horton but darn, those copenhagen wheels are heavy…hefted one that was sitting in my lbs.

[REC (Roberta)]

Joe,

The bike looks awesome and, even better, I think it is exactly the bike you want!  I do hope you'll enjoy it for a long while before Ryan takes it off your hands.  ;) 

Perhaps you can use your expertise helping others in your neighborhood electrify their bikes thru a co-cop or bike store. 

Roberta

[Joe Bernard]

Haha, I almost had the wheel sold a couple times before I had found any 26-incher Rivs to mount it to. It's off the market now, I'm riding it! 🙋‍♂️

[Joe Bernard]

Update! Holy moly this is a spectacular bike. I had those wood fenders I mentioned on for a while, which were super pretty but I never figured out a brake bridge attachment that kept the rear from rattling like crazy. I had some Honjos by Simworks from my long gone MIT Atlantis 650B, which I decided will (sorta) fit 26"..I was right!

Tubus rack on the back, Nitto HAR up front. Bags are various shades of green and tan: Baggins rear, HAR front, Small Saddlesack, Makeshifter Snackhole.

I put a new Silver2 shifter on a left bar pod to shift the rear (cuz bad right hand)..works great 👍

[esoterica etc]

Joe,

That’s a sweet looking bike you got there. I built up a Clem for my wife earlier this year, and am so impressed with how it rides. Would love to experience what a Coppenhagen-equipped bike feels like, especially with your glowing review. Glad to hear it’s checking all your boxes, and that you found a workable solution to your shifting conundrum. 2020 is going to be your year! All the best,

~Mark
Raleigh, NC


> On Dec 27, 2019, at 18:18, Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Update! Holy moly this is a spectacular bike. I had those wood fenders I mentioned on for a while, which were super pretty but I never figured out a brake bridge attachment that kept the rear from rattling like crazy. I had some Honjos by Simworks from my long gone MIT Atlantis 650B, which I decided will (sorta) fit 26"..I was right!

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[Joe Bernard]

Hey, let's see new pics of my massively enbrightened Clem, shall we?

[J Imler]

Looks good. Joe, do you think a mid-drive kit would reduce or increase Clem L flex?

[Joe Bernard]

I thought my mid-drive Clem L 52cm was a smidge flexier, but that could be down to it being a longer frame. We can take into account me being more used to it now, too: on today's ride with the bags loaded up with groceries it flexed a bit and didn't bother me a bit.

[Hetchins52]

Those Ortliebs would be even more spectacular on an orange Appaloosa or Susie/Wolbis!

Is that a Bartender Plus bag from Rivelo?

David Lipsky

[Joe Bernard]

I'd have to go reverse on those bikes: orange frame, black (maybe blue) bags.

The bag was called a camera bag by Rivelo, I don't know RandiJo's stuff so don't know if it's part of that line of bags.

[Howard Hatten]

I received notice that my Black Friday purchased Copenhagen wheel shipped and is going to be delivered on Tuesday.
I’ve been looking at these for awhile, then Joe comes along and makes it to hard to resist. I plan to install it on my Cheviot. I’ll give ya my impressions once I get some miles in.

Howard
Livonia Mi

[Ron Gurth]

Just catching up on the saga of your Clem with Copenhagen Wheel. When my wife wanted to add Pedal Assist to her Betty Foy I wanted the CW. Too early, it wasn’t ready for market. Then they said No to 650B wheels. That killed it for us. Went with a mid drive and rear rack battery. System works great, but we did not like that we had to change crankset, bb, brake levers, grips. But the performance is very good. Sadly, we are selling the bike as my wife’s MS now affects her balance and ability to ride. Have not gotten any serious interest yet. May have to separate the bike from PA system to sell it.