A simple cutom steel BB cable guide

[Kim H.]

Upon owning a Rivendell Clem Smith Jr. "L" bicycle, I have very long chain stays. This has given me to thought of how can I increase the speed of shifting by reducing the friction and slack times for better shifting through the BB cable guide for my right indexed Shimano Dura-Ace SL-BS77 bar end shifter.

I came up with an idea. I took a curved V brake noodle. I removed both end pieces and the plastic sleeve from inside. I measured the appropriate length to cut it. I took a Dremel tool and bit. I carefully carved a wider channel on the plastic BB guide to accommodate the steel tube. I repeatedly kept bending the piece of tubing to the right angle for the best passage of the rear derailleur cable. I returned the plastic sleeve to the steel tube and cut it to a shorter length.

Once that was done, I placed two plastic cable housing caps on either end. I used Gorilla Clear Maximum Strength Construction Adhesive to glue down the steel tube onto the BB guide. Let it set for 24 hours.

Upon my return, I threaded the rear derailleur cable through the new tube and pulled out the slack in the Shimano RD M531 long caged rear derailleur and tighten the anchoring bolt.

My test ride results are as follows:

The report on the custom BB steel cable guide I made, there was a significant improvement in shifting up into the lower gears, whilst shifting back down into the higher gears, there was a slight delay. With such a long rear derailleur cable, I believe this is going to be expected.  I am happy to say that there was no "ghost shifting " whatsoever. YAY! All the slack in the cable was pulled out. (I had prior issues with 'ghost shifting". I was unaware of the rear derailleur cable as loose and needed fixing.)

No grease nor oil has been applied inside the plastic sleeve of the tube at this time.

Overall, I feel my custom BB steel cable guide has been an improvement over what was before.

Yes, I do have a lot of helicopter tape on my frameset.

Kim Hetzel, who loves to tinker.

[Kim H.]

Supplemental:

I may inject some grease into the plastic tube to see if it improves more so.

Kim Hetzel.

[Steve]

Kim, I love these sorts of DIY custom tweaks. At the very least they enhance the  sense of attachment to the bike. Thanks for sharing!

Steve

[Isaak Oliansky]

This is objectively wonderful. This is now project #435 to get around to in the garage. 

[Benz Ouyang, Sunnyvale, CA]

Sorry but I'm going to rain on your parade a bit by being skeptical about the improvements you claimed.

There is very little friction from the bend at the bottom of the BB shell, particularly when a plastic guide is involved – the contact is short and (more importantly) the tension of the shift cable is light. Most of the friction will be from the significantly longer runs of housing from the barend shifter to the cable stop, and from the cable stop to the derailleur. Anyone with downtube friction shifters that are set too light will attest to almost frictionless shifting with all the tactile feedback coming from the derailleur return spring, particularly with the front derailleur (that actually wraps more degrees around the plastic BB shell guide).

I suspect by having to thread the shifter cable through your contraption, you've also cleaned up at least the derailleur-side of the run and refined the cable adjustment, leading to most of the improvement you observed. In addition, while the newer Rivendells have longer chain stays necessitating longer cable runs, the extra length is unhoused, meaning there should be no additional friction compared to bikes with "normal" chain stay lengths.

Last but not least, the BB shell is at the lowest point of the cable run. Water ingested into the custom tube guide won't be able to evaporate away quickly. Even if you use stainless cable and tubing, there's still pooling, which shouldn't happen with a well-maintained bike.

[Kim H.]

@ Benz,

Respectively, I appreciate your insights and opinions to my custom steel BB cable guide.

However, I remain in high thought concerning my steel BB cable guide that it does elevates the cable higher off of the BB as well as above the chain stay. IMHO, I foresee that there is less friction or dray on the original plastic cable guide.

I will inject grease into the cable guide to protect water entry. Otherwise, it works for me.

Kim Hetzel who use to live on Bernardo Avenue in Sunnyvale, California as a child.

[Steve]

Kim, if you're concerned about water finding its way into your guide (as Benz pots out) you could pick up a couple Jagwire housing caps as pictured below. They should do the trick.  I've been using them for several years and am pleased with their performance.

  ---  If you decide to give them a try you might want to thread the cable through the end caps and noodle before you actually press fit the caps into   place - just to make it easier.        

https://www.ebay.com/itm/395831788718?chn=ps&mkevt=1&mkcid=28&google_free_listing_action=view_item&com_cvv=8fb3d522dc163aeadb66e08cd7450cbbdddc64c6cf2e8891f6d48747c6d56d2c

[Will Boericke]

You need Jagwire's Elite housing set.  Liner runs all the way from shifter to derailleur, no exposed cable.  Never replace your cables again.  I'm not positive it's long enough for Rivs, however.  I've had a set on a mountain bike for 5+years with no issues.

Will

[George Schick]

Will - wow! I was unaware of that Jagwire cable housing kit.  It's a bit pricy, though. What I have been doing is buy a couple feet of Shimano compatible index shift cable housing (usually Jagwire) from an LBS, split the housing with a utility knife along the length of the cable, remove the wires, and use small lengths of the plastic inner guide to run the shift cables across the BB shell.  It works great, but they eventually wear and split and require replacement every so often.

George

[Will Boericke]

There is a Chinese knockoff option that's quite a bit cheaper.  I'm cheap, but it's been the best money I've spent on bikes with exposed cable

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[Garth]

On my '99 custom Franklin it has a grooved-into-the-shell cable guides which were getting a bit rough and chewing up shift cables. So I used an old portion of a 1.6mm brake cable line as a sort floss to smooth the groove of any roughness. I wanted to thread in a section of slick inner housing, but all I had was leftover parts of brake cable inner liner and it was too large in diameter to fit through guide holes. Not be daunted by that, I found Jawire sells just the derailleur cable slick liner, made for 1.1/1.2mm cables. Threads through the holes like a form fitting glove. I wasn't sure how much to cut, so I let and inch or two on both sides. I put some light grease on the cable in there, but it's stainless cable anyways and it rarely gets wet there in the first place. I can't say I've ever had a corroded cable of any kind ever, even galvanized. My bikes stay indoors.

This wasn't a shift performance thing other than from the roughness of the cable sliding over the steel and chewing up cables, and as of this year the cables exhibit no signs of wear under the BB.

So if anyone has an older frame with a cable guides grooved in the the BB shell and it's eating cables, give that a go.

[Steve]

Playing off of Kim's DIY customization - it occurs to me that a short run of leftover shifter housing could take the place of the V-brake noodle if, for whatever reason (dirt, wear, perceived drag),  there is a desire to protect the cable(s) as they pass beneath the BB.   I've been fooling around with bicycles for 50 some years though, and have not (so far) found a pressing need for this sort of mod.     

I want to say though that my hat's off to Kim for conceiving the concept, nicely executing it, and then sharing it with all of us. I enjoy seeing the creative solutions that other riders devise. On occasion I have flagrantly copied them.

Steve in AVL

[Kim H.]

@Steve,

I thank you very much for the suggestion of using Jagwire Aluminum End Sleeves for Shift & Brake Outer Casings. I appreciate it..

Where did you find them locally ? at your LBS or ?

Your eBay link is in Germany. I would rather not order overseas.

The Jagwire website has them a jar of 50. I just need four, two for application and two a spares not 50.

I did find on Amazon the following, of which is practical and would have extra bits on hand to apply at a later date.

https://www.amazon.com/Jagwire-Shift-Cable-Black-Size/dp/B077F9ZMKF?ref_=ast_sto_dp

@Will,

I thank you for your suggestion of using Jagwire Elite cable housing. I will look into that. I will measure first to see if it is long enough for my Clem.

@Garth,

I appreciate learning of your resolutions about your old '99 custom Franklin's grooved-into-the-shell cable guides that were rough and were chewing up your shift cables.

@Steve,

I thank you for your praise about my conceiving this particular idea and sharing with it with this group. I feel satisfied in doing so in my creative process.

Kim Hetzel.

[Kim H.]

UPDATE:

I went a short bike the other day. The performance of my shifting was not as crisp as it was initially, unfortunately. (Okay.... I can hear a couple of you in the audience saying, "We told you different."...Okay, I am stubborn. I just wanted to shine in the moment of discovery. ) Therefore, I am in the head scratching corner. I am giving serious thought of changing out the whole cable and replacing it with either Jagwire Elite or Jagwire Pro.

Which one do you think is better for a responsive, sealed and slick cable housing with the cable included for my Clem ?

The Elite ?

It is easy to install ?

I would need approximately 88 inches or 7.33 feet.

Would I need zip ties to hold down the cable onto my frame ?

Thank you.

Kim Hetzel.

[Will Boericke]

Another option, though maybe not as attractive, is to run housing all the way from shifter to derailleur (with zip ties).  For the Jagwire sets, I think the difference between Elite and Pro is in the use of aluminum segments for tight curves near shifters; I suspect both would give you equivalent shifting quality.  As long as your frame is set up with housing stops, the Jagwire set works.

Will

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[Garth]

I can see the benefit of a completely sealed cable for a mountain bike that may get exposed to a steady flow of dirt and mud, but for a bike otherwise it wouldn't be of benefit. As Benz pointed out, the Clem doesn't have any additional source of friction for the shift cables from any other bike. I've only played with a Shimano bar end shifter for a short while in my life and found it required more effort to shift at all compared to the Suntours which I was familiar with. They were not a "light action" by any means, indexed or friction. That may be the sole source of and/or greatly attribute to the non-crispness feeling, as well as the the particular shift cables used, the housing the bends of the housing. This also assumes the housing ends are finished flat and free of any inner coil burrs. Also assuming the cable is set up taught, with no play when relaxed. Indexing tension can be very finicky. When I 'm seting up a bike the most direct way to feel for friction is by hand, applying the shifter/brake with one hand, and holding the exist cable in the other and actuating the applicable lever. Wear leather gloves that grip. Slick stainless cables are best. I can see the possiblity of chainging the brand/type of housing runs from the shifter to the DT cable stop and the CS stop to rear derailleur, but that's it. 

I've read some people swear by using official Shimano cables and housing with their shifters for best performance. Some don't use the method of running a huge loop forward for the shift cables either. Some with drop bars run it along the inside of the bar like a hidden brake cable is. Modern housing is so much more flexible than it was back when the mega loops were done. Also, are the shifters assembled correctly ? I've read many a reports here over the years of them re-assembled wrong after cleaning/lubing. Basically I'm suggestling check everything you currently have for sources of friction and cable tension loss. It's not like your bike is any different than any other bike setup with those shifters, so no heroic purchases like "wonder cables and housing setups" should be done. That's the story I'm stickin' to it ! :-) 

[Brian Campbell]

It is an 88 inch cable. Any gains will be nominal simply because of its length. Maybe mount shifter on the seat tube?

Brian Campbell

Berwyn PA

[Kim H.]

@Will,

I like your suggestion of using either the Jagwire Elite or Pro cable housing to run housing all the way from shifter to derailleur (with zip ties) and using aluminum segments for tight curves near shifters, in my case  the BB.

The question is whether to use the Elite or the Pro ?

In my search I found this article on Reddit from some years ago:

https://www.reddit.com/r/bikewrench/comments/zu1avo/which_brake_housing_is_better_jagwire_elite_vs/?rdt=59653

@Garth,

It sounds like a good idea to just buy a pair of slick stainless steel cables with a new BB guide and some Shimano cable housing to start over again before buying some Jagwire fancy cable system .

Is there a specific Shimano shifter cable housing and slick stainless steel cable packet that I can look for ?

There are so many of them listed.

Is it the Optislick Derailleur Cable and Housing Set ?

Upon installing the new cable and housing, I will make sure that the cut housing ends are burr-free and the housing end caps are fit tight up against the housing.

@Brain,

I thank you for your confirmation of its an 88 inch cable.

Mounting the shifter on the seat tube ? ... not yet.

Thank you all,

Kim Hetzel.