Tips for mounting tubeless tires with tubes

[Deacon Patrick]

I put the new tubeless (thus too tight) tire into the blood groove (bottom of the rim well), and that makes it possible, but invariably with a brand new, not yet stretched tire, using the tire iron to leverage that last bit over the rim runs a 50/50 chance of slicing the tube (I leave it partially inflated to help it get out the way, but sometimes it seems to wiggle back). Any tips for not destroying tubes at this juncture?

With abandon,

Patrick

www.MindYourHeadCoop.org

www.CatholicHalos.org

www.DeaconPatrick.org

[Peter White]

Extremely high air pressure. Best done with a compressor.

PJW

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Peter White

[Garth]

I saw this Kool-Stop tool recently,  it's different from levers in that it catches the bead from the outside while using the other side of the rim for leverage. Here's how to use it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EZRSz1DlHg

Warm tires help, as does lots of talc, and the ineffable PFM .... shrugs.

[Bill Lindsay]

Deacon

Here's my recommendation for how to convince yourself of a couple things 

1. Tire is completely off the rim.

2. Set the tube aside

3. Get one bead of the tire onto the rim with your hands only.  Were you able to do that?  If so, then you've proven that with nothing in your way you can mount that bead with your hands

4. If you believe the tire is symmetric, then move to step 6.  If you don't have faith in that fact then take the tire back off and repeat step 3 with the other bead

5. Now you know you can get either bead onto the rim with only your hands provided nothing is your way.  Get back to one bead on the rim

6. Slide in the slightly inflated tube.  Start at the valve stem and get as far around as you can with your hands.  Let's say you get to 80% complete before is starts getting tight. You have about 8" of bead that is not on the rim.

7, For the part of the bead that IS on the rim, work all the way around pushing this bead into the very middle of the well, which will be pushing the already mounted bead slightly up and out of the well. 

8. When you get back to that 8" section that is not on, pull an 8" section to the left back out.  Now work the tire on from the right. 

9. For me the last bit I will pull up and over with my 8 fingers.  The wheel is upright, planted on the ground.  I'm above it and my 8 fingers are grabbing the bead and rolling it OVER the rim.  

I mount all tubeless tires with no tire levers, including brand new ones that are much tighter than ones that I've mounted several times.  I believe there are rim-tire combinations that are unusually tight.  Unusually tight ones may require a second or third run at steps 7 and 8.  The uncovering step in step 8 is important in my opinion because you are sliding the "finishing section" over to a place where the tube is already where it needs to be out of your way.   

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[John Phillips]

Patrick,

     My only tubeless rims are Velocity Cliffhangers, and I've only tried this with Rene Herse and Schwalbe tubeless compatible tires, so I don't have a lot of experience, but...

     I use 2 Crank Brothers Speedier Levers which clip to the rim allowing you to let go and inspect if the bead is still down in the well where I want it, and that your tube isn't sneaking it's way out back under the bead you're working on. After I get the first bead on, I insert the tube and try to fill it up enough to make it behave, but not so much it interferes with keeping the beads down in the well. Once the second bead is on, I check again that the tube isn't caught under either bead, them use a floor pump to seat the beads on the rim.

     Which rims, tubes and tires are you using?

Best of luck!

John

[Deacon Patrick]

Bill, I think your step #8 may be the brilliant answer I need. Like you allude to, I've been scratching me bald pate that I can get the bloomin' tire's first side on with me bare hands so I ought to be able to with the second bead well into the blood groove of the rim. I'll give it a go and let you know! Grin.

With abandon,

Patrick

[Mark C]

Thinner rim tape can really help with a tight tire/rim combination. I prefer Velox rim tape, but have one set of 26" wheels that are nearly impossible to mount tires on.  Switching to a thin plastic rim strip made them doable. These were just some cheapies I had around, but I picked up a Schwalbe branded version at our bike co-op just in case I ever encounter this frustration again. I believe those are readily available and seem to be good quality. The plastic probably is a bit slicker too, which might contribute a bit.

[Patrick Moore]

I have a Koolstop tire jack that works well for excessively tight tires and doesn't touch the tube; this works better than the VAR which IME flexes too easily to be convenient.

There seem to be other makes out there, too:

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=kool+stop+tire+bead+jack&t=ffab&atb=v167-1&ia=shopping

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Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

[Steve Palincsar]

This is the standard recommendation now for "tubeless ready" rims.  Also, the best tip for Deacon Patrick's situation is NEVER use tools to mount a tire. 

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Steve Palincsar
Alexandria, Virginia 
USA

[tuolumne bikes]

The difference between the first bead and the second is that there's the opposite bead and tube conspiring to push the second bead out of the groove. Two suggestions.

1. After starting the second bead, stuff a length of 1/4 inch nylon tube between the rim and bead to ensure the bead isn't being pushed out of the groove. Not usually necessary, but you have presented a worst case.

2. Since the valve stem fills the groove, leave the valve stem as the last place to push on the bead. Also, if you have to use a tool for the final push, the reinforcement of the tube at the stem and ability to push the stem into the tire may make it a bit easier to avoid pinching the tube.

Carl, Columbia, CA

[masmojo]

Mounting tires with tubes on tubeless rims is one of life's most confounding things and used to drive me crazy, but I recently figured out "the trick".
May not work with every rim, but after my first foray into trying to do it, failing and then going to my local shop and watching my buddy do it without any tools, I figured "OK, I am doing something wrong"
Without getting too involved I will try to tell you what causes problems and the solution.
First, when you put a tire on a tubeless rim the first bead wants to ride up on the opposite shoulder (as it should) then the second side also wants to ride the shoulder when you put it on. This all adds up and means you can't get that last bit on.
Solution: when you get down to that last bit. Go around and push both beads together in the middle, the opposite of where you are trying to push the last bit of bead over, make sure those two beads are pushed together And riding in the trough in the middle of the rim and not on the shoulders. This will create enough slack on the opposite side to push the bead on!
Hopefully that makes sense? It would be easier to show you then try to write an explanation, but . . .
Most times now I can pretty much get mine on by hand with no tools; but I pinched lord knows how many tubes before I finally figured it out.

[Deacon Patrick]

Oops. Posting this to the correct thread now. Sorry about that.

Huh. That went far easier than I'd imagined. Didn't even need Bill's #8 shimmy to the left maneuver. Grin. Eveidently I was far from getting it into the blood groove, and that is all that was required. Thanks, all!

Set-up: Cliffhanger rims and Schwalbe Racing Ralph 2.1" liteskin tires.

With abandon,

Patrick

[masmojo]

Problem(s) I have with all this ( and they are all sort of intertwined) is 650B & 27.5 are more or less the same thing; at first blush this seems like a good thing, but it actually gets a little tricky.
Because, if you are buying tubes the larger sizes pretty much assume you are running a tubeless wheel which tends to have a deeper profile, so they come with 40mm+ presta stems. BUT, if you are running a narrower tire (sub 43mm, it's kind of assumed you are not running a aero profile rim and that a shorter sub 38mm stem is sufficient.
I've taken to running 26" tubes, but on a dedicated tubeless rim they can be a chore to get on and stated widths can vary widely. Even within a batch of tubes with the same packaging I've noticed a wide disparity in the contents of the box. I am trying inflating the tubes to stretch them out a bit. While this might help circumfanchially(sp), it might be a detriment in the width area.
I mainly run tubes, because I have a lot of bikes and tubeless set ups work better on bikes that are ridden frequently, ultimately I think the best bet is to switch over to tubeless on the bikes I ride most often. 😕

If you only have 2 or 3 bikes it makes sense just to switch.