Roadini or Homer

[Bones]

I know these comparisons have come up frequently, but here is my particular situation:

I had a 62 Hillborne. It felt too similar to my Appaloosa, so I got a 61 Roadini. I've been riding that for a year and a half and I love it. It serves the purpose the Hillborne was meant to serve (the Hillborne always felt a bit too bulky for my intended purpose... which is primarily riding on roads with light loads).

Sometimes I feel like I overshot with the Roadini though, and the Homer would be the best choice. I sometimes wish I could put fenders on it, without having to go with a smaller tire (currently running Barlows on Quills --> ~41mm). I sometimes wish I could add a small front rack without using P-clamps.

Being a tall and slender fella, pretty much every Rivendell is overbuilt for me for any of their stated purposes. What I am getting at is would I be losing anything if I swapped the Roadini for a Homer? Clearly I would gain in functionality. I am indifferent with respect to the chainstay lengths. I just want to be sure that the bike would have the same lighter feel that I experience with the Roadini.

Any insight is much appreciated!

Bones

[Shoji Takahashi]

Hi Bones,

I have a Homer and love it. It's a great all-rounder for my purposes. (Commuting, riding w/kids, running errands, rec riding to enjoy the day.)

But I have a stripped down faster bike when that's what I want.

(Have you tried narrower tires? Does it impact your ride given the roads you travel? Also, have you tried rackless front bags? Perhaps these would solve some of your problems?)

Good luck!

shoji

[Ben Mihovk]

Good morning,

I don't have any personal experience with Sams or Homers, but going of what you are describing and what Riv says, here's my take...

You're right in thinking that Homer will be between Sam and Roadini, but I think it's almost identical outside of color, brake type, and according to Rivendell, Sam has slightly stouter tubing. I can't imagine that slightly lighter tubing on a very similarly sized and designed frame is going to yield a significantly different ride/feel. But I'd love to hear from someone with lots of saddle time in both frames to see what they think.

I have an Atlantis and I lust for Sam as a lighter, zippier option for rides where I want to go for hours on roads and light gravel/dirt...so I am totally with you on wanting to find something different enough from my current bike, but I don't think the Roadini would be quite stout enough to be an all-road solution. 

Ben in Omaha 

[Bones]

Thank you.

I suppose I should include where this bike would fit in my lineup: For riding with kids, I have my ClemXtracycle For commuting, knocking around town I have a single speed with a basket rack. I also have a very lean single speed with higher gearing and jack browns, which essentially covers the same type of riding my Roadini does. So I guess the hole in my lineup is between the commuter and the Appaloosa. It's pretty flat around here but it can be windy. The Roadini is used exclusively for solo rides in the rare event I can escape my family. I have tried to justify keeping the Roadini and getting a Homer but I'm trying to be responsible (<-- did I spell that correctly?) for once. They would overlap too much and I could grab either one.

Shoji - I have tried narrower tires, which are I'm sure what this bike was designed for. The roads around here are pretty chopped up and the ride is markedly nicer with the fatties on there. I have Paul centerpulls, which I need to keep the clearances, and they don't play well with front bags (I'm sure there's some kind of workaround).

Bones

[maxcr]

Hi Bones,

We all like to tinker with bikes and try new things... if you have some appetite for a Homer, just go for it - you won't be disappointed. If you want racks then the Homer is the way to go, but be aware that if you add racks, bags, etc... it might not feel as zippy anymore.

After owning 6 different Rivs over the years including a Sam and Homer which I just sold, I've come to realize that I was always in search of an idealized version of a bike, one which I will probably never attain. When I read the thread I started wondering why did I just sell my AHH? It's exactly what I want... but then remembered that the other Rivs I have can be configured to do the exact same thing the Homer did.

Basically what I'm saying is I agree with Ben, my take is that setup matters more than anything for most Rivs, tires, handlebars and drivetrain in that order. These bikes are incredibly versatile and for the most part able to successfully fill different roles depending on which version of the bike you end up building. I think swapping out these parts on a Sam, Homer or Roadini frame will yield greater results than swapping out the frame itself. This is true for most frames unless you go to an extreme like compare a custom road with a Bombadill, perhaps there you will be hard pressed to make them both feel the same.

Max 

On Thursday, September 23, 2021 at 11:27:28 AM UTC-4 bjmi...@gmail.com wrote:

[Bill Lindsay]

In my opinion, if you swapped your build kit from a Roadini to a Homer, the only parts that would have to change would be the rear hub and the brake calipers.  If that's the only things that changed, the resulting complete bike would be within a pound.  In my opinion, that build would feel just as light and fast.  

If instead you used your Homer platform as an excuse to add wider knobby tires, plus fenders, plus front and rear racks, and bags, and used wider rims because of the wider tires and necessary rear hub change, and added dynamo lighting because you're already buying a wheelset, then that build would not be within a pound.  It could easily be 10 pounds heavier or more, and that bike may not feel as light and fast as your stripped down Roadini did.  

Echoing Max it's all about the build.  In my stable, I like having at least one super stripped down road bike.  Mine is a Roadeo.  I also like having at least one All Road bike.  I have several bikes that fit in that All Road slot, including a Hillborne and an Ebisu.  I'd hate to pare that down.  Maybe an excuse would be to buy a Homer, and move your Roadini to a vacation bike role.  Like if you have a relative that you visit often, park the Roadini there.  You may find value in keeping both.  Once you have both, you may find you can live without one.  My Hillborne lives at my office in Michigan, and my Ebisu lives at my home in El Cerrito.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Johnny Alien]

I don't think its ALL about the build although that plays a major part. There is certainly geometry differences and those LONG wheelbases play into how lively a bike feels.  IMO the Appaloosa, Homer and Sam are all totally in the same camp and if you thought the Sam was too close to the Appa then the Homer likely will too.

[Bones]

Thank you. I ran into that exact trouble with my Sam, which is why it ended up like the Appaloosa. As it stands, I have plenty of parts to build a complete Homer and keep the Roadini as is. I would likely use a dynamo (I have an extra Son in my bin), a Mark's rack up front, and a BananaSax in back. Maybe fenders, probably not... though I'd like the option. No wider knobbies, no rear rack, no wider rims. I'd probably keep a trunksack up front, and I'd like the option for a basket if needed, which is why the rack would be necessary. I just don't want to be in a situation where I have more bikes than I will be able to use.

Johnny - I would tend to agree. But I feel like a a 61.5 Homer would be closer to a 61 Roadini than a 62 2TT Hillborne, let alone Appaloosa.

Bones

On Thursday, September 23, 2021 at 12:31:34 PM UTC-4 Bill Lindsay wrote:

[Bill Lindsay]

Johnny shared his opinion that "the Appaloosa, Homer and Sam are all totally in the same camp", which in context is a different camp from the Roadini.  Johnny is characterizing that Appa, Homer, Sam camp as LONG wheelbase bikes.

Here are five bikes in my size.  Pulling the numbers from the geo-charts:

Riv A has 61.4cm front center and 45.5cm chainstay

Riv B has 62.8cm front center and 46.5cm chainstay

Riv C has 62.1cm front center and 47.5cm chainstay

Riv D has 65.6cm front center and 53cm chainstay

Riv E has 67.9cm front center and 53.5cm chainstay

 

I agree there are two camps above.  Riv A,B, and C are in the same camp.  Riv A, B and C have a front center short enough for a drop bar, and chainstays in the same neighborhood (long but not super long).  Riv D and E have huge front center, so should be run with uprights, and those bikes also have super long chainstays.  

Riv A, B and C are Roadini, Hillborne and Hilsen.  

Riv D and E are Appaloosa and Atlantis.  

I don't know of geometry numbers that would put Hillborne, Hilsen and Appaloosa in one bucket but would put the Roadini in a separate bucket.  I maintain the opinion that a nice light stripped down build of a current Hilsen or a current Hillborne can end up as a very snappy 22-23 pound road bike.  If the extra versatility of that Hillborne/Hilsen platform gets you to a 30+ pound curb weight, then it's natural to lose some of the snap.  My recommendation is to build the bike you want to build and then enjoy it for what it is, and don't fret over what it is not.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Joe Bernard]

Two other criteria you haven't mentioned about Homer is it's a fully-lugged frame and comes in a gear color. If I were on the fence between those two I'd jump for the Homer for those reasons alone.

One way to do this - since you'll be selling a bike either way - is get the Homer first and compare. If you're buying used you'll be able to turn the Homer right back out for what you paid. 

Disclosure: I've only owned a Roadini, which was great. Never ridden a MIT Homer. 

Joe Bernard

On Thursday, September 23, 2021 at 7:38:52 AM UTC-7 Bones wrote:

[Joe Bernard]

*great color. 

[Johnny Alien]

I never said that a Hilson couldn't be snappy. My point was geometry DOES play a factor. It can't be ignored. Otherwise Rivendell or hell every bike company might as well make two nice frames (a diamond and a step through) and let people build them to meet their needs. Rivendell DOES have a lot of crossover with their models but I know at one time Grant mentioned staggering the stock of Hillbornes and Homers because they were pretty similar.  The Roadini was built to be a road bike first and the others are country bikes and have longer wheelbases. I am not sure why the fact that they aren't THAT much larger makes a difference. I stand by the fact that a Homer and a Hillborne are very very similar and if someone thought the Hillborne was too close to the Appaloosa they likely would feel the same about the Homer. 

[Bill Lindsay]

My only quibble was that you put the Hillborne and the Hilsen in 'totally the same camp' as the Appaloosa in terms of geometry.  The geometry differences between the Hilsen and Hillborne are tiny.  The Hilborne and Hilsen belong totally in the same camp.  The geometry differences between those country bikes and the Appaloosa are large.  Those large geometry differences between Hilsen/Hillborne and the Appaloosa cannot be ignored.  Putting all three totally in the same camp ignores those differences.  

The OP claimed his Hillborne reminded him too much of the Appaloosa.  That makes no sense from the geometry, because the bikes are super different in geometry.  It does make sense in stoutness.  The Appaloosa is totally stout.  The OPs 2TT Hillborne was similarly stout.  Two overstout bikes may feel similar to thin riders.  That's natural.  It also makes sense if that overstout Hillborne was built heavy.  A 34 pound 2TT Hillborne and a 34 pound Appaloosa may have a bunch of similarities.  Those similarities won't come from geometry, because the geometry is super different.  But the weight can totally feel similar.  That's natural.  If he goes and builds a 34 pound Hilsen, then I agree with your warning: he'll likely feel like it's too similar to his Appaloosa.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Patrick Moore]

Having replaced a custom Rivendell with another custom last year, because I found the Riv's tubing too stout (I finally discovered "planing"!), I have to say that if you are light and want a zippy-feeling bike, I'd choose a Roadeo or Legolas (I assert this based only on what I've read about them; they are spec'd with the lightest tubing), or I'd look for a 1970s all-531 road bike like the Motobecane Grand Record I used to own and the Libertas I now own: normal gauge tubes with relatively thin walls, relaxed geometry, long stays, room for 32s with fenders, and (Libertas) even 38s, I've been told. And the Motobecane had fender braze ons.

But tubing aside, I find that light wheels with extra-light RH 28s (Elk Pass) make the same bike feel noticeably more nimble than with 41 mm Naches Passes, though the difference in rolling feel is less. 

I'm 170 without any accoutrements whatsoever.

And that Motobecane, as I've proclaimed innumerable times before was, despite it's very light, all-531 tubing, the very best rear load carrier of any bike among the considerable number of all sorts that I've owned. 35-40 lb, no big deal, on 11 oz Fly rack. I carried 45 lb once. It carried rear loads better than the stouter Riv Roads, and even my Ram and Sam Hill.

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Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

[Tim Bantham]

Like you Bones I own a 62 2TT Hillborne and a 62 2TT Appaloosa. I am going through a similar search. I love the Sam for what it is. A super versatile bike that provides a butter smooth ride with the ultimate stability. I am riding it on Velocity Quills and 38mm Gravel King smooths set up tubeless. I have learned that the wheels and tire combo can have a significant impact on ride quality. I too am a light weight rider. The Sam is probably a bit stout for my needs and I've always wished it was both light and snappy.  In its current mode I have it stripped down of racks and bags. In essence, it is as light as it every will be. The Sam in its current state makes for a great road bike. If I look at my Strava results from 2014 to the present my PBRs on my regular rides are within seconds of each other. During that time frame I've owned a custom Gunnar and a Cannondale Synapse. Both of those bikes were significantly lighter than my Sam. I am in love with lugged steel bikes and know that this is the type of frame I want to ride for the rest of my riding days. I've contemplated a Roadini but ultimately I've decided to stay away from it. I find the geometry to be just too weird for my liking. At the other end of the spectrum is the Roadeo. I have reservations about this bike because I don't know if it will fit me. I truly benefit from the sloping top tube of the Sam and the tall headtube. (not as tall as the Roadini) The Roadeo doesn't offer that in it's geometry. I also have thought about the AHH but I think at the end of the day it is too close to the Sam in its design to make it worthwhile. I've come to the conclusion that I just need to practice being content with what I have.

Not sure I have helped but know that I am going through the same thoughts. This is not a good time to be in the market for a new bike so I am just going to have gratitude for what I have and try to focus on finding time to ride instead of longing for a new bike.

[André P]

Just to add on about the rackless front bag and using Paul center pulls.... I also had my Roadini set up with Paul's and I swapped over to VO grand cru brakes and haven't looked back. With the clearances on my edition of the roadini (I bought the frame from riv in 2018 I think) it's going to be limited by the fork crown and rear brake bridge before it'd interfere with the brake itself. However if you have a later edition frame I think they tweaked it a little for more clearance and possibly it will affect it. That said I find my 35mm road tires more than enough for the chopped up state of most bay area roads.

[Toshi Takeuchi]

I have a Roadeo and a Homer.  I ride the Roadeo for fair weather 1 day rides, but used my Homer for multi-day events set up as shown below.  Of course, the Homer wouldn't be a Roadeo when stripped to its lightest, but then again, it has rack mounts and fits wider tires, so it has tangible benefits and would serve very nicely in many categories.  I think the Homer is the right bike for riding with light loads.  I wouldn't hesitate to put on a rear rack and do some light touring too.

Roadeo:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/42771204@N00/8443093499/

Homer setup for 600k--obviously smaller bags work just fine and would be more spritely

https://www.flickr.com/photos/42771204@N00/6988274342/

[Bones]

Great feedback folks! Very helpful. I have been inspired to keep the Roadini. I think I will bring the tires back down to something more fitting of the frame, and keep the build lean. At the same time I'm made more aware that my Clem H, which has been sitting idle for some time, should probably find a new home. My new Appaloosa overlaps too much, and I always grab it rather than the Clem. That will open a spot in my stable to justify a new bike.

My Hillborne was a great commuter, and I do miss it. I was on the bottom end of the fit range on that frame (62cm), and with the double top tubes it was just too much bike. I am dead in the middle of the range for a 61.5 Homer. With the slightly lighter tubing, slightly lower BB drop, and lack of second top tube, I think it may be the perfect replacement commuter. Of course, it may feel exactly the same, but there's only one way to find out! I can then keep my single speed for lousy weather; I have too much fun riding that to work with studded tires in the snow (rare as that is these days).

Bones

[Jason Fuller]

This has been an interesting discussion to read for me too!  I'm in a similar-but-different place, spurred by the cost to paint the Bombadil (which, I'm willing to pay, but it does force you to think long-term), where I'm considering making my Hillborne into the "heavy" bike and getting a Homer from the upcoming batch to be the "light" bike.  I know they're very similar bikes, but then again, I love my Hillborne enough to have considered just two Hillbornes built differently on more than one occasion!  I think the fact I'm 160lbs soaking wet has a lot to do with it.   

[James Warren]

Bones,

I have a Homer, Hillborne, and Rambouillet.

The Homer and Hillborne are closer to the same than the Homer and Ram are. My guess is that you didn’t overshoot. Homer and Hillborne are both country bikes. Let’s say I were to settle on two bikes and wanted one to be a light feeling “road bike.” If I had a Roadini, I’d have that covered, and Sam could by my country bike.

Enjoy,

Jimmy

On Sep 23, 2021, at 7:38 AM, Bones <ekstr...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Joe Bernard]

Jason, 

I owned that Bombadil and would say that stocky double-tube frame is way overbuilt for someone 160 lbs. unless you're running full touring loads all the time (your Instagram tells me you're not). I think the Hillborne/Homer combo is a better idea than popping for paint. 

Joe "in this reporter's opinion" Bernard

[Jason Fuller]

Cheers Joe, I appreciate your perspective there (And I can feel Ryan's eyes right now, wondering if I'm going to sell). Yeah the recent touring on the Hillborne was a bit of an eye opener, since that's about as much weight as I'll ever carry and the Hillborne did so flawlessly. We'll see how reckless I feel on the Homer drop date :D 

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[Karl Wilcox]

The Homer will be 'heavier' or stiffer in terms of feel than the Roadini; I actually find the Roadini too stiff for my riding style.

Karl

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[ShumotoSoundRoom]

I own three steel bikes: A 2003 Independent Fabrication Independence (their full touring frame, designed by Mike Flanigan), a low trail rando frame with 650b wheels made by a small builder, and a 2020 Roadini.  The Indy Fab is a miraculous bike for loaded touring; incredibly stable with full panniers and surprisingly light and quick when stripped, given its stout tubing.  I rode it across the US in 2004, and it has seen many, many miles since.  I have converted my rando frame to function as  errand runner, for I determined over the course of thousands of miles, that I just don't like the feel of 650 wheels.  Since acquiring the Roadini in 2020, I've ridden nothing else.  It felt, in so many ways, like the perfect bike for my needs.  Exactly what I wanted from a "road + gravel" bike.  The vast majority of my riding is done alone, on some combination of gravel and road, rides falling between 20-70 miles.  I'm not as fast as I was in my twenties, thirties, or forties, but I keep a fairly brisk pace.  I generally ride with a lightweight frame bag (made by Swift Industries) with no other bags or racks on the bike.  I'm running Paul centerpulls which allows me to comfortably fit Rene Herse 38's, my favourite tires to date.  Until last week, I sort of figured that the Roadini would be the bike that I would ride for the rest of my life.  But then, after a short fifteen mile ride on mixed surfaces, on a different bike, everything changed.  

My wife and I finally caved and bought our son a great bike, as he is almost sixteen and wishes to join me on longer rides.  He has just surpassed my height, so we bought him an A. Homer Hilsen as it will fit him longer if he keeps growing, and it seemed the most versatile of choices.  After the build was finished, I took the bike out to make sure that everything was working properly, and within a few miles, I quickly determined that this was without question, my favourite bike that I had ever ridden in my life.  No, it did not feel as quick as my Roadini, but it didn't feel as sluggish as my unloaded Indy Fab; which struck me as odd, given that the chain stays are MUCH longer on the Homer.  The comfort level was astounding.  There are moments on the Roadini where I hit a smooth stretch of recently paved road, the feeling of flying is accentuated and I think to myself, "this is such a glorious sensation!"  The Homer felt that way the entire ride.  On both road and gravel, I felt like I was simply gliding.  The steering felt a bit slower and the bike didn't accelerate as quickly, but the stability and comfort were so incredible that I just didn't care.  I live in New England and some of the old gravel roads can be rough, such that I normally lift off the saddle over bumps and hold the bars lightly.  Not so with the Homer.  It was, to my great surprise, even smoother than my Indy Fab.  I should note that I was using the same Rene Herse 38's.  

Anyway, I could carry on and on, but I just wish to say that I find the two quite different.  The bike also feels noticeably bigger (the frame is a 58) which may also contribute.  To shorten what could be a long story, I came home, walked in the house, and ordered a Homer, which is set to arrive today.  Once I build it up, I intend to sell the Roadini.  After about thirty years of 3000mi annually, the Homer was instantly the bike that I'd dreamt of for a long time.  You can't really go wrong with either.  To me the question would come down to this: do you want to maximize the feeling of quickness or gliding comfort?  For me, there was no comparison.  With the Tektro side pulls and all of the same parts, I cannot tell a weight difference between the two; perhaps the Paul brakes and extra bits nullify the frame savings.  Anyway, I was in a similar decision dilemma as you a few years back and went with the Roadini, and while it all worked out in the end, the Homer was the right choice for me.  

Good luck!   

[Roberta]

I know this is an older thread, but I used this board a lot when I was researching which "one" Riv to buy and couldn't get enough opinions.  

In 2017,   I decided on the 2016 51 cm Appaloosa.  Strong, stable, smooth.  I was in heaven.  Then, I purchased a 2019 54.5 Homer to keep at a second location.  Light, lively, sprightly.   I've come to love this bike more.  It now has racks and fenders like the Appa (same tire--Gravel King slicks) but still rides like it did before, much more fun for me than the Appa, For me out of 10, Homer is a 10, Appa is a 9.

I'd guess that the Sam/Platy/Cheviot all ride similarly.  Appa/Atlantis ride most similarly.  the only "lighter" bike I've ridden is Homer.

Not a bad decision in the bunch.

[Keith Paugh]

These are really great posts. Thanks for cataloging your experiences guys!

I for one would LOVE to see photos of all three of those bikes (The Indy Fab, the Roadini, and the new Homer) if you have a moment to post them.

k.

On Oct 12, 2023, at 8:52 AM, ShumotoSoundRoom <shu...@gmail.com> wrote:

I own three steel bikes: A 2003 Independent Fabrication Independence (their full touring frame, designed by Mike Flanigan), a low trail rando frame with 650b wheels made by a small builder, and a 2020 Roadini.  The Indy Fab is a miraculous bike for loaded touring; incredibly stable with full panniers and surprisingly light and quick when stripped, given its stout tubing.  I rode it across the US in 2004, and it has seen many, many miles since.  I have converted my rando frame to function as  errand runner, for I determined over the course of thousands of miles, that I just don't like the feel of 650 wheels.  Since acquiring the Roadini in 2020, I've ridden nothing else.  It felt, in so many ways, like the perfect bike for my needs.  Exactly what I wanted from a "road + gravel" bike.  The vast majority of my riding is done alone, on some combination of gravel and road, rides falling between 20-70 miles.  I'm not as fast as I was in my twenties, thirties, or forties, but I keep a fairly brisk pace.  I generally ride with a lightweight frame bag (made by Swift Industries) with no other bags or racks on the bike.  I'm running Paul centerpulls which allows me to comfortably fit Rene Herse 38's, my favourite tires to date.  Until last week, I sort of figured that the Roadini would be the bike that I would ride for the rest of my life.  But then, after a short fifteen mile ride on mixed surfaces, on a different bike, everything changed.  

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/e8d84c40-4ab1-4dd5-b79f-9d98f6418aa5n%40googlegroups.com.

[Roberta]

BTW, "couldn't get enough opinions" meant "I got a lot of opinions, but even more would have been even better."  You know....more is more.  :)  This is a great board full of wonderful people.  Thank you!

[Piaw Na]

On Thursday, October 12, 2023 at 8:52:13 AM UTC-7 shu...@gmail.com wrote:

Anyway, I could carry on and on, but I just wish to say that I find the two quite different.  The bike also feels noticeably bigger (the frame is a 58) which may also contribute.  To shorten what could be a long story, I came home, walked in the house, and ordered a Homer, which is set to arrive today.  Once I build it up, I intend to sell the Roadini.  After about thirty years of 3000mi annually, the Homer was instantly the bike that I'd dreamt of for a long time.  You can't really go wrong with either.  To me the question would come down to this: do you want to maximize the feeling of quickness or gliding comfort?  For me, there was no comparison.  With the Tektro side pulls and all of the same parts, I cannot tell a weight difference between the two; perhaps the Paul brakes and extra bits nullify the frame savings.  Anyway, I was in a similar decision dilemma as you a few years back and went with the Roadini, and while it all worked out in the end, the Homer was the right choice for me.  

I was going to say --- I wonder how you'll feel when you have to pack this bike for a tour. What got me to not buy a Homer (other than the axle spacing) was that one of my critical use cases is being able to put the bike in a box, fly to a destination, and do a 3 week tour and bring it back. When I mentioned that to  Grant he admitted that it would take a much bigger box than I was willing to put up with to do that.

[Stephen Durfee]

Piaw, are you saying that you take your Roadini for a 3-week tour?  How much gear are you carrying?

[Piaw Na(藍俊彪)]

I wouldn't carry more than 20 pounds. It would be a credit card tour. I recently did an overnight camping trip with less than 15 pounds of gear 

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[ShumotoSoundRoom]

I will happily post photos of said bikes once I get the Homer assembled in the next week or so.  I intend to continue using my Independent Fabrication for all loaded touring, as it can easily handle full panniers, camping gear, etc.  I will ride the Homer unladen on one day rides; perhaps the occasional overnight with a minimal amount of gear, but mostly it will function as my version of a recreational road + gravel frame, thus replacing my Roadini.  You're right that the size of a 58 Homer would be tricky to fit in a box;  that being said, any touring I've done from 24hrs to three months, has seen me depart from my front door, or a drop-off via car or train.

[Piaw Na(藍俊彪)]

On Fri, Oct 13, 2023 at 7:46 AM ShumotoSoundRoom <shu...@gmail.com> wrote:

I will happily post photos of said bikes once I get the Homer assembled in the next week or so.  I intend to continue using my Independent Fabrication for all loaded touring, as it can easily handle full panniers, camping gear, etc.  I will ride the Homer unladen on one day rides; perhaps the occasional overnight with a minimal amount of gear, but mostly it will function as my version of a recreational road + gravel frame, thus replacing my Roadini.  You're right that the size of a 58 Homer would be tricky to fit in a box;  that being said, any touring I've done from 24hrs to three months, has seen me depart from my front door, or a drop-off via car or train.

If you like the Homer that much, find a way to tour with it, esp. if you can shave your load down. I can't imagine not touring with my best bike. That's what I bought it for.