New Roadinis will have clearance for 42 mm tires

[Eamon Nordquist]

I saw today the announcement that the new Roadinis are niw designed for R559 brakes and will easily clear 42 mm tires. Good news, as far as I’m concerned! The only thing I am slightly sad about is that they aren’t coming in grilver, which is THE color for the Roadini, in my opinion. That may be influenced by my love for the silver gray imron paint on early 80’s Treks. Regardless, if I have a  job by then, I may have to get one.

Eamon

Seattle 

[BobW]

That's great to hear!  Where did you see this announcement?  I did not notice anything on the Riv website???

[Brady Smith]

My wife has already agreed to buy me a frame in Mermaid for our 10th wedding anniversary. Cannot wait. 

[Eamon Nordquist]

From the latest email update:

“The Gallop is a roadish bike that'll take a puffy tire and has the standover drooptube benefits of the Susie/Gus. If you want a functionally similar bike sooner - get a Roadini; They don't have the drooptube but are now designed around Tektro R559s and will clear a 42mm tire easily. They're coming in __* in Mermaid and orange.”

Eamon

[Linda G]

I'm so glad I bought my Roadini frame before this change! The 559 brakes do not work for me: poor power in dry conditions and unusable in wet. I find that 33mm tires have plenty of cush and 42's would probably create toe overlap on a 50 size frame. I'm grateful to have found a Rivendell frame that works for me. 

[Johnny Alien]

I am a little shocked that they are apparently bringing that change over to the Charlie Gallop too. Instead of the V-brake/cantilever setup that the previous prototype had. Since they are designing their own V brakes that look to be quite nice it seems that they would push the bikes toward that. The only reason I can think that they would make that change is because sidepulls are a little more common on road style bikes. But making a decision based only on aesthetics seems counter to how Rivendell normally does things.

[Eric Daume]

Yeah, I was really looking forward to the CHG, but the long reach brakes kill it for me. 

Eric

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[Pancake]

I was excited for a Charles H Gallop too, but no v-brakes means I’m out. Wish I could snag that prototype, because that is just an ideal setup. 

But the Sam Hillborne also started with long reach brakes (like mine) and eventually made its way to canti/V-brake posts so hopefully CHG goes the same way and sooner than later. 

Abe

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[Scott Calhoun]

Count me among those with no enthusiasm for 55-73mm long reach caliper brakes. IME, much worse performance than medium 47-57mm reach brakes. In the medium reach format, one has several high quality brake options: Velo Orange Grand Cru, TRP 957, and Paul Racer M. In long reach calipers, especially now that the Paul Racer regulars have been discontinued, there are no high performance options to my knowledge.

I would have prefered sticking with the medium reach, or going to canti posts if wider than 38mm tires is a must.

[Brady Smith]

Is there any reason why one couldn’t just use medium reach brakes with skinnier tires on this new model? I’m starting to wonder if the new VO Randonneur might not be a better option, or if I should just keep an eye out for an older Roadini/Rambouillet. I already have a BMC monster cross I use with 42mm tires. 

[Joe Bernard]

It's brake hole to rim center you gotta get right. A medium-reach caliper won't reach the rim as the Gallop is currently configured. 

[Eamon Nordquist]

With that tire clearance, I would prefer that both bikes had cantilever posts, but I don't really mind the braking on long reach brakes. Disclaimer - I don't weigh that much (140-145 pounds), and even camping loads are usually pretty light for me. I just like that cantilever brakes allow you to maximize your fender clearance. 

The new Roadini sounds like it will be more of a bridge between the Roadeo and the Homer Hilsen.

Eamon

Seattle

[Eric Daume]

The prototype is for sale on the Riv site. $2k complete, 57cm. If it were a 60cm I would have bought it.

I did some powerpoint measurements and estimate the seat height in the photo to be 30.6", FWIW.

Eric

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[Doug H.]

Joe, you need that Stainless Steel Clem!

Doug

[Johnny Alien]

Nice. There is a 54cm complete too. Someone should grab those us. These are perfect this way. I appreciate the slightly deeper swoop and canti/V brake posts. I absolutely love my Proto Gallop. I find it interesting that they are designed for swept back but coming with albastache. Albastache are great bars but don't sweep back enough. I think you should have a stem much shorter than what they have on there. It really seems like they are making some optic decisions based on what a road bike is to most people. Either way...great bike, grab them quick.

On Friday, January 21, 2022 at 4:04:44 PM UTC-5 Eric Daume wrote:

[Joe Bernard]

Missed it! Probably wouldn't have jumped anyway - I'm getting a strong itch for a Platy - but it's cool!

Joe Bernard

[iamkeith]

On Friday, January 21, 2022 at 4:30:32 PM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:

Missed it! Probably wouldn't have jumped anyway - I'm getting a strong itch for a Platy - but it's cool!

Joe Bernard

It must have lasted all of 3 minutes.  I clicked on the link the moment I saw the email update, but it was already gone.  Probably for the best because it would have looked awfully silly sitting next to my orange susie.  Congratulations to whoever got it.

Without wanting to "pile on,"  i do feel compelled to point out that this bike had become an instant holy grail, the moment they decided to switch to caliper brakes.  I'm sure the production Charlie will be a good bike and that they'll sell whatever they make.  But, for people like me who already own caliper-equipped, roadish bikes that are otherwise perfectly adequate, a charlie with canti brakes had just enough "extra" going for it to interest me.  With caliper brakes, I'll probably just double down on the Saluki and Ram, and deny myself the joys of the longer bike yet again.  First world problem if there ever was one.

[Johnny Alien]

Honestly with the less swoopy top tube and sidepulls there isn't as much different than the current Roadini beyond a longer wheelbase.  And if the point is to have albastache or drops then I would think the Roadini would be a touch better. I am sure the new Gallop will be good and people will buy it but I agree with @iamkeith that the previous design was the perfect Riv styled road bike.  Hopefully someone here got one of them. They did sell fast.

[Chris Halasz]

I'm wondering if the new Roadini extended its chainstays to accommodate for the larger tire size. 

[M Talley]

Just thinking out loud here . . .

Since these new 42mm tire-width-non-canti bikes are in the works, wouldn't it be nice if a better long reach brake were also in development? Before the Paul Component Racer ended production I watched a few auctions that gave me reason to pause. One stated the reason for selling Paul's was the inability to get any tire larger than 38mm "released" without letting out air. I also saw a modified Paul Racer sell. The lobe-shape section at the arm end where the brake pads attach was filed flat. The stated reason was it "interfered" with spacing the pads for a wider-section rim. 

Before going all-in on disc brake bikes it looks like Velo Orange had prototyped a possible solution - attached image. It looks like a higher quality maybe Gran Cru level brake. It clearly has lots of reach and a simple cable release for potentially opening wider.

There is room for a pricier product. The 40-50 year old design of Dia Compe center pulls aren't a worthwhile up-spec. Is Rene Herse is 'THE' solution to up-market long reach brakes (oh, and one would need to find a set of Mafac Raid back plates)?  I'd sign a petition - Paul, please re-tool the Racer for 42mm tires or Rivendell and Merry Sales-Soma-IRD, please make a more-robust-than-Tektro-559 bolt-on long reach brake.
Mark

[lconley]

Rene Herse sells the brakes with the Mafac backing plate already, I think it adds $25 per brake.

I have the Rene Herse braze-on center-pull brakes on my Rivendell Custom - massive clearance around the 650B x 48 Switchback Hill tires.

One thing though, I had to replace the brake shoes because the Rene Herse shoes were way too wide for the Velocity Quill rim braking surface.

You know, its funny that I never hit anything or went off the road back in the 70's, 80's, 90's, etc. because the Weinmann center pull brakes on my P-15 Touring Paramount didn't work well enough. I did upgrade to the finned Matthauser pads (ooh-aah) at one point though. You could adjust the brake toe-in by twisting the brake arms with a crescent wrench. I think that people have incredibly high expectations for brakes these days.

Laing

Delray Beach FL

[iamkeith]

On Wednesday, January 26, 2022 at 10:19:36 AM UTC-7 M Talley wrote:

Just thinking out loud here . . .

Since these new 42mm tire-width-non-canti bikes are in the works, wouldn't it be nice if a better long reach brake were also in development?

I'm probably wrong, but my first suspicion was that they're doing this specifically to create a market for the tektro 559.  Both that brake and the paul racer WERE developed specifically for Rivendell, so perhaps they feel obligated.  Grant has often said "buy something if you appreciate it, or it might not be around when you want it " or something to that effect.  I get that.

I  have one of each (tektro and paul).  I don't have as strong negative feelings against them as others do, but I always thought the chief complaint was poor leverage and stopping power - more than lack of quality or ease of wheel removal.  

For me, it's kind of the whole package:  Cantis are stronger, better looking (subjective), accommodate fenders better, are friendlier for fat or knobby tires, and are easier to fine tune adjustment (maybe subjective again).  I know that not everybody has the same needs as me though.

The other thought I had was that the somewhat awkward cable routing - necessitated by the curved/dropped top tube - might have had something to do with the decision to ditch cantis in the case of the charlie. But, as others have pointed out, there are tidy ways to solve that. And linear pull brakes.

 

[brendonoid]

There is a downside to powerful long reach brakes. The mounting bolt.

I have used Paul Racers for years on my Homer commuter and when I had a stop sign at the bottom of a steep hill, I'd had to replace the front mounting bolt multiple times because it had bent under daily braking loads.

Meanwhile R559s on my Sam, which has done some crazy off road fully loaded totally out of spec touring. The brakes themselves flex quite a bit and I've never had a bent mounting bolt.

Something to think about. There is a materials limitation there and it isn't the brake itself.

[brendonoid]

I'm actually excited about the changes to the Gallop and if I have the money when they are available I'll very likely get one. But I've always liked R559s.

I do have a question though, do the front forks look bent to anyone else on the new samples? They look off to me. All of the diff sizes are off the same way so i'm not sure if somethings weird about the fork jig, the crown lug or what. Maybe I am just crazy.

[Johnny Alien]

I am sure the Rivendell folks are smarter than me as far as bike design and market so my views are probably the outlier here. To me the canti posts make sense because if I want something that works better with road brakes my choices are mini-V's or cantilever brakes. I also have the option to go with non-road brakes and regular V's.  More options and better braking power. The original design was for a road bike for sweptback bars but now the move seems to be to use a small stem and road bars like the albastache or noodles. I think that switch is what really moved them to sidepull because they want to spec it with albastache by default which uses road brakes.  Once you make that change then maybe there is some cost saving by not having the canti posts or maybe its because sidepulls are easier to setup vs cantis (which is what they would use because they don't stock mini-v's).  And the deeper swoop put the Gallop in the same family as the new Riv designs and allowed for a larger frame for the user.  The new design really just became a Roadini with a slight swoop on the top tube (but not enough to really allow someone to go up a size if they are in the middle).I would have just kept the roadini but increased the wheelbase a touch and make albastache the stock bar.

[Jason Fuller]

Reading through this thread all I can think is, boy I wish Rivendell would revive a modest center-pull brake.  Long reach sidepulls have no place in a world where centerpulls exist, imo!  And then go from that to their new V brake.  No need for canti's really - there are already so many out there, and they come in third place against v-brakes and centerpull caliper brakes anyway.  

[Michael Doleman]

This is an old thread, but having just scored a 50cm Roadini for my partner, I thought I'd respond. The need for long reach brakes concerned me slightly, but in the end decided that with all the factors involved, it would be fine: bike is small, partner doesn't weigh much (125 or so), the bike isn't going to handle any big loads, and we aren't going to be doing harrowing descents). What I have opted to get for brakes is a set of the Dia-Compe/Gran-Compe GC700 model. I have both the GC610 and GC450 on other bikes, and I feel that they offer very good performance with quality brake pads -- better, I'm sure, than a long reach side pull. That said, I have also used the Tektro R559 and found them to be basically fine so long as they are outfitted with something other than the stock pads. They may be a little less than ideal in wet conditions but overall I think they are fine. And, if you don't need the extra clearance, it's always possible to use a drop bolt--which are hard to find, admittedly, but they are out there. The GC700 is also a little difficult to find, and a bit on the expensive side, at better than $200 for a set. And if you're willing to go even higher than that, there's always the Rene Herse model.

Part of me wonders if the GC610 would actually work. They are specified to have -- I think -- 61mm of reach, which is only 2mm short of what the Roadini spec says it needs. Perhaps with the right pad? I don't know. I have a free set of the 610s available, so will try it when the new Roadini arrives and report back here on findings.

[Ryan]

Grand Cru do have a long-reach option....and are excellent paired with TRP brake levers in my opinion...have this combo on my Riv Road with Barlow Pass 32mm. Although...Velo-Orange brands 47-57mm as long reach and Roadini specs specify 63mm of reach....too bad...so yeah I guess V-brakes or cantis would be more useful. Oh well

https://velo-orange.com/collections/brakes/products/grand-cru-long-reach-brakes

[Patrick Moore]

The first gen Sams had cantilevers. Mine was Riv's floor model and came with very wonderful IRD wide profile cantis; nicer in action and not far behind in appearance compared to the much more expensive Pauls on my 2020 Matthews!

On Monday, January 17, 2022 at 8:38:54 AM UTC-7 Pancake wrote:
>

> ... But the Sam Hillborne also started with long reach brakes (like mine) and eventually made its way to canti/V-brake posts so hopefully CHG goes the same way and sooner than later.
>
> Abe

[Patrick Moore]

A very different wheel diameter and of course a different Rivendell frame, but depending on how precise the positioning of the brake mounting hole is placed in the crown, you might be able to use a normal reach single pivot.

This is a Naches Pass measuring a bit over 41 mm on a 21 mm OW rim under the -- I forget; SunTour? Dia Compe? -- normal reach single pivot on my 1999 Joe Starck. Plenty of room, ditto in back.

BTW, that single pivot with salmon Kool Stops is very strong and modulates very well.

[Andrew Turner]

Once these roadini's start getting built, I'd be curious to know what the maximum size tire is with fenders. Seems like a solid rando option! 

[Patch T]

Michael - really looking forward to hearing what happens with the GC610s! 

Patch, who's helping a friend build his 57 orange once it gets here in NYC/Hudson

[Piaw Na]

I built up my 54cm Roadini on Saturday. Pictures: https://www.amazon.com/photos/shared/2mh2Jr8FRO6v3jzaewoY_Q.iLe5MSVKuBltp0tHHlgV_C

23 pounds as pictured (pump, pedals, bottle cage but no water bottle or wedge pack). It rides great but I'm slower on descents than on my touring bike (higher BB on the roadini + wider tires means I've got a higher CoG). The brakes are great --- I certainly have no complaints about them as compared to my other bike's standard reach brakes. 

[M Talley]

I was wondering about tire clearance and found a Soma Pescadero (longer reach rim brake synergy between Riv and Merry Sales) with 44mm wide WTB Byways on Velocity A23 rims.  Even this doesn't look like it's maxed out. That's from the perspective of the brake arch only.  One has to wonder about getting an inflated wheel out  . .  quick vs not-so-quick.

The Roadinin's brake bridge is moved upward and the fork legs are longer but if all the rest is the same as the original designs it seems there are limits might be the widths of chain/seat stays and the width of the fork crown. Gotta wonder why the mind drifts towards even-wider tires.

[Piaw Na(藍俊彪)]

Short of taking calipers to the tire I don't know how you would know that's truly a 44mm tire. I put Michelin Pro Race 4 Endurance 700x28 on my Velocity Aerohead OC and they measure 27mm. I put Continental GP 5000 700x30 on my Mavic Kysrium and they measure 27mm. Makes me think that the size markings on the tires are just science fiction. I will note that on my Roadini the pads are definitely not all the way at the bottom of the slots. 

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