Cassette spacer at lockring?

[J-D Bamford]

Seems like the standard topic... White T11 (11sp) hub and a Shimano 10sp cassette. I've got a 1mm spacer (can't recall if it came with the hub or cassette), and the adder 1.85mm spacer. Consensus is to use both spacers... and my cassette lockring seems to get enough turns of tightening. Mechanically it feels solid...

Problem is my (DA 10-sp long cage) rear derailleur spring seems just a tad weak and it doesn't readily plop the chain onto the smallest 11t cog. It gets there after hesitating a couple pedal revolutions in the workstand. I'm flirting with moving one spacer *behind the lockring* instead of behind the largest cog, so the entire cassette is more inboard and the 11t isn't quite as close to the dropout. The derailleur's parallelogram spring is plenty snappy before reaching its outer limit. SACRELIGE? Admittedly the lockring wouldn't be acting on much (spacer) surface area (versus gear surface area).

For the record, I can easily nudge the derailleur under the smallest cog with gentle finger pressure, and it stays there. I've cleaned and lubed the rear derailleur pivots and parallelogram spring (but will do so more forcefully with spray WD followed by spray lube)... Cables are new Shimano teflon coated (and lightly oiled) in new high quality Shimano housings (coming from DA barcons with spec housing length up front)... rear cable run isn't overly curved at the dropout because I'm using an Avid Rollamajig (which I disassembled, cleaned, and relubed, and its locknut is not overtightened).

[Joe Bernard]

I don't think the consensus is correct. You should be able to mount a 10-spd cassette to an11/12 hub with just one of those two spacers and still lock the cassette down. 

[Huston]

As Joe mentioned, you should just need one spacer (1.85mm) for a 10-speed cassette on an 11-speed hub.  Hopefully, that helps your shifting.

--Huston

Lexington, KY

[Peter White]

You'll get better shifting if you use the cables dry and just depend on the liner to get clean shifts.

PJW

[J-D Bamford]

Two good suggestions above that I will try. Thank you!

It also occurred to me that I could dremel-off the teeth from a parts bin cassette cog (roughly 1.6mm thick) and use that behind the lockring instead of the 1.85mm spacer behind the cassette. That would be radical... but perhaps worthwhile to try.

[Will Boericke]

I'll throw in my favorite nemesis: derailleur hanger alignment.  Might as well check. Agree that the shift in question should happen and a 10s cassette should work on that hub.  I have a sram x9 RD that doesn't shift well onto the small cog as well; I suspect it's an older weak spring that's the culprit there.  Luckily I only ride the bike 1x/year :)

Will

[JohnS]

The reason why I haven't put the spacer between the lock ring and the smallest cog is the concern that some how the lock ring would come loose since the serrated surface of the lock ring would not engage with the serrated surface of the smallest cog. There's a certain reassurance I get when tightening the lock ring to the smallest cog, that one extra click, just seems right and like it will stay together as intended by the engineers who designed it. I don't get that feeling when the spacer is next to the lock ring.

JohnS

[Patrick Moore]

FWIW, I’ve used “inappropriate” middle cogs with no outer-face serrations as first-place cogs many times, and I’ve never had a lock ring come loose. There is little, if any circular input by the driving forces on the lockring (the splines prevent that) and if you tighten it well vibration should not be a problem.

[Jason Hartman]

If the derailleur won’t move where you want it to, then move the derailleur out by putting a washer under the mounting bolt. Just don’t make it too thick or the b screw won’t hit its stop. 

Jay Hartman

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[Garth]

My best guess is that cable isn't traveling freely. It should absolutely be plopping into place. No heroics or chainline DIY required :) The first thing I'd do is take the chain off and actuate the RD from high to low, even adjusting it so it will travel a little past the last cog, just for the test. It should do this effortlessly and without any friction. The RD itself is easy to test by taking off the cable and actuating it by hand high and low, it should move easily. If all that is good, then there's a hang up in the cable itself. With the cable end unattached, grab it with some grippy gloves and move the shifter up and down, it should move real easy. If you feel friction then there's something off with the cables.

I just realized I missed the rollamajig part, big oops ! I never used one, but frankly I'd start there, after I wrote all that ! Simply try the RD without out it. If it works fine, then there's obviously something about the rollamajig. Again, I never used one but I see it has a cable adjuster, I assume you tried that ? It could be it's simply not allowing the RD to travel as it's supposed to, as in too much tension and the cable isn't going far enough to go into the last cog.

[J-D Bamford]

Thanks to all the commenters. I removed the 1mm spacer, leaving only the 1.85mm spacer behind the cassette, and now it shifts fine. And i learned that just because a derailleur can freely travel farther outboard towards the dropout, its spring can reach its relaxed state before the upper limit screw is hit. 

Two things that have changed since I learned how to wrench on bikes circa 1985… Teflon coated cables and housings don’t need lube. And this darned cassette spacer issue. Can’t just slam on the cogs, crank the lockring, and ride. Gotta plan on measuring, trial fitting, and iterating (which feels like a slight buzzkill, lol).

[J-D Bamford]

Shakedown ride today. Still need to dial in handlebars, brake lever angle, seat fore/aft. Until then, the old deformed bar tape remains.