Sam Hillborne Caliper vs Canti

[Eliot Balogh]

How much more tire and fender clearance does the Canti version have compared to say a Paul Racer side pull ?

[Ben Cullen]

Would also love to know this exact question! Did you ever find out? 

[Brenton Eastman]

Definitely would need to know your frame/wheel size. My 57cm Sam with tektro side pulls and 700c Velocity Dyad hoops clears a 47 teravail, 48 Rene herse, and 50 gravel king. Not sure how much bigger you’d need. 

[Drew Fitchette]

@brenton were the RH slicks or knobby?

[Brenton Eastman]

I’ve had the 48 file tread without issue. I’ve seen people run the 48 knobbies on side pull Sams as well. 

[Nathan Mattia]

My 51 cm 650b w the Tektro side-pulls runs the 41-ish Fatty Rumpkins right now. 

I am curious if the Paul Racers would allow me to go bigger as well. 

[Chris Halasz]

Are all keeping in mind whether a caliper brake that accommodates wider tires may may introduce the inconvenience of having to deflate a tire for wheel removal, which may not be the case for cantilevers? 

[Drew Fitchette]

The listed clearance for Racers is 54mm. Though I assume anything north or 40mm might need deflation if you're using the Salmon Kool-Stops for removal.

James from Riv said this re: the racers on his Homer:

"I've set up my homer with 50mm shikoros that actually measured closer to 45mm. That set up was a little tight and rubbed when I pedaled out of the saddle due to frame flex. 

 

I think 45's would be ideal if they were knobby and 48 if they're slick."

[Brenton Eastman]

Oh yeah, I have to deflate anything over 42 to clear my tektro 559s. 

On Apr 23, 2024, at 11:00 AM, Chris Halasz <cha...@gmail.com> wrote:

Are all keeping in mind whether a caliper brake that accommodates wider tires may may introduce the inconvenience of having to deflate a tire for wheel removal, which may not be the case for cantilevers? 

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[Bernard Duhon]

The brake pad on my racers hit the seatstay & front fork which restricts the opening.

I have to deflate a 38mm tire.

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[Steven Seelig]

I have a Hillborne with Paul Racers.  I am running Gravel King 43s and yes I have to deflate the tires.  OTOH, I am running them tubeless at 40psi so refilling them is no big deal.  

Steve Seelig, Washington, DC

[John Bokman]

Brent, what year model do you have? I'm under the impression that earlier Sams (like my 2017, 58cm) do not accept as fat a tire as the newer models (2018 onward)?

My use case is trying to figure how fat a knobby I can install for an upcoming offroad trip. Some say a 43mm wide knob is all that the frame will accept, while the Riv site itself says 45mm tires fit - albeit not necessarily a knobbed tire. 

for the record, I'm on Velocity Dyad rims. And my Sam is designed around side pull brakes, but I had canti posts installed so have more room in that respect.

Thanks for any info you may have.

John 

(in Portland OR)

[Tim Bantham]

John, my Sam is a 2017 model designed around side pulls. I am riding 44mm Rene Herse Snoqualmie Pass on Velocity Quill rims. Paul Racer brakes. There is plenty of clearance for the tires front and rear but I do have to deflate the tires a bit to get them out. It's been a non-issue for me and the Sam is great with these tires!

[john Bokman]

Tim, thanks for the confirmation!

I would be using knobbies for an upcoming trip. My hope would be to use the Rene Herse Manastash tires, which purportedly are 44mm wide on the Dyad rim width. Alternatively, I could use the Hurricanes at 42mm. All things equal I’d rather get the fatter meats in there (I do realize I will need to deflate tires to remove).

Anyone out there use the Hurricane Ridge or Manastash successfully on an older Sam frame?

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[Brenton Eastman]

John, I believe mine is also a 2017 and similar to Tim I do not have any clearance issues. I do need to deflate a bit for install/removal due to brake pads. I’m in Portland as well if you ever wanna link up and get tire-nerdy in person. Also happy to share pictures. 

On Jun 18, 2024, at 11:13 AM, Tim Bantham <tba...@gmail.com> wrote:

John, my Sam is a 2017 model designed around side pulls. I am riding 44mm Rene Herse Snoqualmie Pass on Velocity Quill rims. Paul Racer brakes. There is plenty of clearance for the tires front and rear but I do have to deflate the tires a bit to get them out. It's been a non-issue for me and the Sam is great with these tires!

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[Tim Bantham]

I have a friend with the same era Sam that we are discussing. I can confirm that the Hurricane Ridge will definitely fit.  Not sure about the Manastash. I am thinking about trying these as well.

[John Bokman]

Thanks Brenton and Tim for your insight. Good to know I may be able to fit at least a 42mm knobby in there. For what it's worth, I believe (but am not certain) that after 2017, the size I ride (and Brenton rides) switched from 58cm to 57cm. If this is correct, Brenton, your frame is likely a 2018 or newer. I need to get myself a pair of vernier calipers to accurately measure the space I've got at all the critical areas before spending lots of dough on new rubber!

John

[Brenton Eastman]

44mm tire on dyads will fit no problem. My friend ran the 48 RH knobbies no prob and so did @senditsafely on IG. He’s got pics of clearances and such. If you try the 44 RH knobbies and they don’t work, sell em to me! My 47 teravail knobbies are getting smooth at this point. 

On Jun 18, 2024, at 1:21 PM, John Bokman <jpbc...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks Brenton and Tim for your insight. Good to know I may be able to fit at least a 42mm knobby in there. For what it's worth, I believe (but am not certain) that after 2017, the size I ride (and Brenton rides) switched from 58cm to 57cm. If this is correct, Brenton, your frame is likely a 2018 or newer. I need to get myself a pair of vernier calipers to accurately measure the space I've got at all the critical areas before spending lots of dough on new rubber!

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[john Bokman]

Brenton, I may take you up on that!

I think the confusion for many lies in the fact that different year models have different clearances. The 2017 (according to Riv) fits up to a 45mm tire, while the more recent models (I assume your friend’s and senditsafely) can run (according to Riv) a 47mm tire.

Thanks for the actual rider reports.

John

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[John Bokman]

Long story short:

I installed Bruce Gordon Rock n Roads on Sam for my trip. The fit is great. I'm sure I could have fit Manastash tires, but they were not available. 

The Rock and Roads are great tires for everything off-pavement. Especially good for the rough, chunky stuff. They are fine on pavement, but I wouldn't use them for pavement riding were I not riding to trails. The Rock n Roads are light enough, supple enough, easy to install without tire levers, have great grip, and are plenty tough. I bashed my way through lots of sharp rocks and did not worry about puncture. I did puncture on a hwy section getting home, but that's where the truck-tire wire and glass can puncture any tire.

In sum: Rock n Roads make a splendid tire for my 700c Sam. They measure 43-44mm on my rims.  Anecdotal, but my riding partner flatted on sharp rocks using Rene Herse Endurance casing 48mm tires while I did not. Bruce and Tayna from Bruce Gordon Cycles provided exceptional customer support. Both tires and vendor are highly recommended.

[John Bokman]

At the chainstays:

[Keith Paugh]

I have those Rock n Roads, and feel the same. 

I even like them on pavement, as far as knobbies go.

Smooth and quiet.

Good looking tire mounted. Great dirt digger.

k.

On Jul 7, 2024, at 11:11 AM, John Bokman <jpbc...@gmail.com> wrote:

At the chainstays:

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<IMG_0704 2.jpeg>

[john Bokman]

Outstanding dirt diggers! I was absolutely amazed and what I could handle (and had to handle!) on trail. I did not want for more tire, that’s for sure; only more nerve.

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[Drew Fitchette]

Here’s some photos of the RH 44’s on my Sam with Paul racers. 

[john Bokman]

Great looking clearance there, Drew. Bedrocks?

-John

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[Drew Fitchette]

Ha! Guilty. Gotta keep the feet cool down here in these Atlanta summers. 

I love my RH tires, would definitely get these again for the Sam!