Admissions of Things You Ought to Have Known But Did Not: A Thread

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

I nearly talked myself out of this thread because I’m about to make myself look really stupid, but it was so funny that I’m doing it anyway.

I’ve been somewhat of a mess my whole Biking Life. I adored bikes, always, but I never had a proper bike education or a nice bike until 2012. I was born to the least mechanically-inclined parents on earth, and my mom was more proficient than my dad. I grew up riding the worst bike you can imagine, always with nearly-flat tires. Maybe once a year, usually in spring, Dad would haul my bike to the gas station and fill the tires with air. It was like riding on clouds. But eventually, my tires would lose air again and I’d have to wait until next year. Not that I’d notice anything was amiss - I was too busy riding barefoot all over small town North Dakota, falling out of trees, eating penny candy from the bowling alley and building forts. Tires, what tires.

I grew up, went to college, met and married my husband, who grew up on a farm. We moved across the country with almost nothing and started our life and careers. My farmer father-in-law came to visit and outfitted our garage with tools he thought mandatory, including an air compressor. I think it was my 27th birthday that my husband told me he wanted to get me a bike. I knew just the one, it was *really* expensive at $125, but it was my birthday and I would get the best: A blue Schwinn Sidewinder from the local Walmart.

While he was visiting, my FIL (again, a farmer and not a bike rider) noticed my bike tires were pathetically low. Of course I hadn’t noticed; flat tires were de rigueur for me! He filled them with the air compressor, pushed on the tire and declared it good. And from then on, that was how I did it.

I’ve heard you all talk about your supple tires and not wanting them rock hard, and I knew *I* had supple tires because when I squeezed them, there was a tiny but perceptible give to the rubber. I mean, that’s what you all meant, right? So I made sure I never filled my tires very fully because supple tires were the ticket.

I ended up with a floor pump last year. It has a gauge that tells you “how much pressure you runnin’”. I have started using it lately and began to pay attention to what my tire pressure was. 20-25. Huh. I remember folks discussing tire pressure and I didn’t recall theirs being so low. So, I asked Joe, who seems to answer most of the questions on the List and doesn’t seem to resent it. He (through fits of laughter at his keyboard, I’m sure) said that yes, I actually should be pumping up my tires to a certain number and that yes, they would feel rock hard, and no, squeezing them is not a good test, and indeed I would not explode my Big Bens (with max psi of 70) if I filled them to 55 psi.

I was today years old when I learned that your tires are *supposed* to feel rock hard and be filled to an actual number. I was today years old when I learned that my “supple tires” were just tires that were low on air.

Who else has managed to miss the obvious when it comes to bike stuff?

Leah, who would like you to know she is smart at other things. Just not bike things.

[Steve Palincsar]

On 5/4/20 9:41 PM, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:
> I nearly talked myself out of this thread because I’m about to make myself look really stupid, but it was so funny that I’m doing it anyway.
>
> I’ve been somewhat of a mess my whole Biking Life. I adored bikes, always, but I never had a proper bike education or a nice bike until 2012. I was born to the least mechanically-inclined parents on earth, and my mom was more proficient than my dad. I grew up riding the worst bike you can imagine, always with nearly-flat tires. Maybe once a year, usually in spring, Dad would haul my bike to the gas station and fill the tires with air. It was like riding on clouds. But eventually, my tires would lose air again and I’d have to wait until next year. Not that I’d notice anything was amiss - I was too busy riding barefoot all over small town North Dakota, falling out of trees, eating penny candy from the bowling alley and building forts. Tires, what tires.
>
> I grew up, went to college, met and married my husband, who grew up on a farm. We moved across the country with almost nothing and started our life and careers. My farmer father-in-law came to visit and outfitted our garage with tools he thought mandatory, including an air compressor. I think it was my 27th birthday that my husband told me he wanted to get me a bike. I knew just the one, it was *really* expensive at $125, but it was my birthday and I would get the best: A blue Schwinn Sidewinder from the local Walmart.
>
> While he was visiting, my FIL (again, a farmer and not a bike rider) noticed my bike tires were pathetically low. Of course I hadn’t noticed; flat tires were de rigueur for me! He filled them with the air compressor, pushed on the tire and declared it good. And from then on, that was how I did it.
>
> I’ve heard you all talk about your supple tires and not wanting them rock hard, and I knew *I* had supple tires because when I squeezed them, there was a tiny but perceptible give to the rubber. I mean, that’s what you all meant, right? So I made sure I never filled my tires very fully because supple tires were the ticket.
>
> I ended up with a floor pump last year. It has a gauge that tells you “how much pressure you runnin’”. I have started using it lately and began to pay attention to what my tire pressure was. 20-25. Huh. I remember folks discussing tire pressure and I didn’t recall theirs being so low. So, I asked Joe, who seems to answer most of the questions on the List and doesn’t seem to resent it. He (through fits of laughter at his keyboard, I’m sure) said that yes, I actually should be pumping up my tires to a certain number and that yes, they would feel rock hard, and no, squeezing them is not a good test, and indeed I would not explode my Big Bens (with max psi of 70) if I filled them to 55 psi.

OK, let's deconstruct this a bit.  I looked them up: according to
Schwalbe's web site a Big Ben no matter the diameter is either a 50mm or
a 55mm wide tire.   As you know, pressure is related to load: the
heavier the load, the more pressure you need.  No different here from
your car or truck.  I figure I'm probably 50 lb heavier than you (100 kg
after breakfast today) and I run my 38mm 650B tires at 4 atmospheres,
around 60 psi.  So if you at 75% of my weight are running a tire that's
maybe 15mm wider than mine and 5 psi less than I am, I'd say chances are
pretty good that you're inflating those tires to a much higher pressure
than you need to.  Chances are, if you reduce your pressure to perhaps
40 or maybe even a few psi less than that, you'd get a better ride.
You'd probably have less rebound after hitting a pothole, too. That's
another -- quite dangerous -- downside to overinflating a wide tire: it
can rebound like a basketball, pulling the handlebars right out of your
hands.  I've got a jagged lump in my collar bone because of that.

>
> I was today years old when I learned that your tires are *supposed* to feel rock hard and be filled to an actual number.

Not a big wide tire like that.  Now sure, a 23mm tire at 100 psi is
definitely going to feel rock hard.  I can feel the (ultra supple EL
casing) sidewalls on my Herse Loup Loup Pass tires give when I squeeze them.

> I was today years old when I learned that my “supple tires” were just tires that were low on air.
>
> Who else has managed to miss the obvious when it comes to bike stuff?
>
> Leah, who would like you to know she is smart at other things. Just not bike things.
>

--
Steve Palincsar
Alexandria, Virginia
USA

[Leah Peterson]

Here’s what I got from that: You weigh 220 pounds, and you think I’m only 50 lbs lighter than you?

Yeah, you’re dead to me.
Leah

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 4, 2020, at 7:29 PM, Steve Palincsar <pali...@his.com> wrote:
>
> 

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[Deacon Patrick]

Leah, you may not be as far off with your finger test as you think (yes, your understanding of supple tire was off). The weight of the rider plays a big part. My daughters on their 2.1" tires run 20-30 psi just fine. Me, the 200 lb ogre, need 35-40 psi. So, to Steve's point, you don't want to run 50-55mm tires much above 30-40 psi if you want a good ride. As long as you're not bouncing with every pedal stroke or pinch flatting on rocks, roots, or curbs, you can run tires pretty low just fine.

With abandon,

Patrick

[Joe Bernard]

Well I'm going to disagree to a degree. For the mostly smooth terrain Leah rides and the Killer Hill™ she climbs to get home, I can't see 30-40 psi being anything but drag for her. She can certainly experiment with pressures and 55 may be a bit much, but she's not riding terrible roads and dirt.

[Ian A]

Good thread, Leah

I ought to have known that I should have gone looking for some scissors instead of using a large, heavy knife to trim a zip tie. I'd modified a bell in order to zip tie it to a 1 1/8 steerer. The zip tie put up some resistance so when the knife finally made it through, it continued at some velocity into the bike's top tube.

I then felt the need to sand off the paint in the affected area, examine the damage, sand the metal around the dent (or cut?) in the metal to avoid future a stress riser. Then attempted a paint touch up, which just looked terrible, until I finally just put some reflective tape on and shamefully called it a night.

Sometimes I wonder about myself. The more I learn the less I find I know.

Re: Steve's comment; I think he was referring to the estimated combined weight of you, your bike and the impressive loads you at times carry. Pressuring up for the heaviest scenario, so to speak.

IanA Alberta Canada

[ANDREW ERMAN]

You are a good writer, Leah.  Thanks for the air story.  I enjoyed it.  Andy

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[Joe Bernard]

"You are a good writer, Leah. Thanks for the air story. I enjoyed it. Andy"

I love dad hauling the bikes to the gas station for their annual airing up. I can picture the truck pulling up (actually it's a giant late-'70s station wagon in my mind, but probably a truck), the whole scene. She's very good at putting you in the world of the story.

[Leah Peterson]

I just got back from 14 miles of fun. You all have never LIVED until you’ve had air in your tires. I soared up the hills. I shook my teeth loose bombing down the hills! Did you all ride horses growing up? I rode my bucking Clem all over these trails and I did not fall off, not even once.

Fine, Steve and DP, you guys are a little right - I could let some air out. That bike really rattled on the way down Killer Hill, and I could feel the grips jumping around trying to shake loose of my hands. But come on, it was FUN. Have *you* ever ridden your bucking Clem around *your* neighborhood? No, you haven’t, because you insist on sensible tire pressures and supple tires and miss out on all the fun.

Ian - hilarious and so relatable. I’m laughing with you, not at you. Also, you are the only one who’s offered an Admission of A Thing You Ought To Have Known. Gold star!

Andrew - thank you; that’s so nice. ☺️ You can stay.

Joe - YOU THINK I WAS BORN IN THE 70S?!? There was no 70s station wagon - there was a sweet 90s GMC Safari van with the inexplicable maroon striping down the sides that I called “our racing stripes.” It had cup holders. It was slick. Also, Joe is right about the roads here - they’re nice.

Steve was today years old when he learned not to guess at a woman’s weight.

Leah






Sent from my iPad

> On May 4, 2020, at 8:47 PM, Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> "You are a good writer, Leah. Thanks for the air story. I enjoyed it. Andy"

>
> I love dad hauling the bikes to the gas station for their annual airing up. I can picture the truck pulling up (actually it's a giant late-'70s station wagon in my mind, but probably a truck), the whole scene. She's very good at putting you in the world of the story.
>

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[Evan E.]

When I got my first bike, as a grownup, after not riding at all since childhood, I oiled my chain with Phil Tenacious Oil. Because that’s the only oil I had. And then I left the oil on the chain. Because that’s what you do, right? So why, one week later, was there goo and grit all over my chain and rear derailleur pulleys?

[Joe Bernard]

A Thing I'm Not Sure I Ought To Have Known and Definitely Still Don't:

Why a lot of those '90s vans came with those graphics. Someone said, "Whelp, there's sure a lot of space there. A racing stripe makes sense." *

*it did not make sense

[Eric Daume]

The van stripes make sense if you’re an A Team fan!

At 175 pounds, I would run those tires about 40 psi, and fill them up when I notice too much squirm in corners. 

Eric

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[DHans]

Leah,

That was such a fun read! Made me laugh sitting here at my office computer. My dad was mechanically inclined but for bike stuff I was on my own! I rarely pumped up the tires (that's what we called it) on my really expensive Mongoose BMX bike. Mongoose was once upon a time a really good brand...we paid (my parents paid) $212 dollars for it in 1980. That was a lot of money that they really didn't have, bless them.

I once took a bike apart to see how it was made and could not re-assemble it. My dad and I took it to the LBS to have them do it. That was a humbling experience as the guy at the LBS looked at me with amusement as I glanced at he and my dad while I looked at the rad GT BMX bikes. Ugh. Humility is not fun to learn but great to have.

Thanks for the topic,

Doug

[Steve Cole]

Leah,

Thanks for starting this thread and the many others you have begun.  They are one of the reasons I visit this site daily.

The one thing I should have known but did not -- and it's really an entire category -- is that I really shouldn't work on my own bike.  While I think am mechanically inclined, I've never trained as a bike mechanic -- professional or amateur.  The number of times I have started to "fix" something on one of my bikes is too many to count.  All too often, after realizing I have not fully succeeded and my bike is not rideable, I haul it to my LBS where, in addition to addressing the original problem, they also need to undo my bad work and make what I've done wrong right.  

Steve Cole

Arlington, VA

[Steve Palincsar]

On 5/5/20 12:37 AM, Leah Peterson wrote:

I just got back from 14 miles of fun. You all have never LIVED until you’ve had air in your tires. I soared up the hills. I shook my teeth loose bombing down the hills! Did you all ride horses growing up? I rode my bucking Clem all over these trails and I did not fall off, not even once.

Fine, Steve and DP, you guys are a little right - I could let some air out. That bike really rattled on the way down Killer Hill, and I could feel the grips jumping around trying to shake loose of my hands. But come on, it was FUN. Have *you* ever ridden your bucking Clem around *your* neighborhood? No, you haven’t, because you insist on sensible tire pressures and supple tires and miss out on all the fun.

So must be at least 10 years ago now, standing on the dinner line at Bike Virginia, and there's this group just ahead of me, people from Virginia Beach, talking about tire pressure.  This one guy - huge - a Deuce and a Half for sure, built like a football player, and he's saying how much he loves his 19mm tires blown up to as close to 200 psi as he dares.  There's only one "hill" in the area, a bridge, and he's saying how much he loves coming down that bridge at top speed, the entire bike vibrating, his teeth rattling, because it feels so fast...

Ian - hilarious and so relatable. I’m laughing with you, not at you. Also, you are the only one who’s offered an Admission of A Thing You Ought To Have Known. Gold star!

Andrew - thank you; that’s so nice. ☺️ You can stay.

Joe - YOU THINK I WAS BORN IN THE 70S?!? There was no 70s station wagon - there was a sweet 90s GMC Safari van with the inexplicable maroon striping down the sides that I called “our racing stripes.” It had cup holders. It was slick. Also, Joe is right about the roads here - they’re nice.

Steve was today years old when he learned not to guess at a woman’s weight.

Right day, wrong lesson: today he learned to be more mindful of what he writes while floating on Tramadol, and not to leave out the "at least".

[Rob Kristoff]

Doug,
You know that mechanic was probably impressed you at least got it apart!

Rob

[Steve Palincsar]

50 - 55 mm is a HUGELY WIDE tire.  10mm wider than a 42mm.  If someone who is MASSIVELY heavier can ride a 42mm tire inflated to 50-55 psi in comfort, never getting pinch flats, there is simply no way no how that that same pressure in a tire 1 cm wider and a rider who is DRAMATICALLY lighter will be OK. 

On 5/4/20 11:11 PM, Joe Bernard wrote:

Well I'm going to disagree to a degree. For the mostly smooth terrain Leah rides and the Killer Hill™ she climbs to get home, I can't see 30-40 psi being anything but drag for her. She can certainly experiment with pressures and 55 may be a bit much, but she's not riding terrible roads and dirt. 

[Leah Peterson]

See, I can already add another post to this list of Dumb Things I Did and it hasn’t been 24 hours. 

Yesterday, when I found out about tire pressure, you know I went around with my floor pump and inflated ALL the tires of the bikes in the garage. Baby Bear weighs almost 60 pounds and his Specialized 24 inch got 60 pounds of air (fun!). #TheClemRider is about 85 pounds and got 55 pounds of air in his 26 inch Kendas on his Clem. Won’t they be surprised when they head down Killer Hill?! 😱

Now, excuse me while I go fix THAT. It might be one thing for me and Steve (since we weigh the same, you know) to inflate our tires to 55, but my kids don’t know what I’ve done and did NOT in fact, grow up riding horses. Yikes.

Ok, Steve, I’ll stop busting your chops. You had it coming though, and also it was hilarious. 🤣

Evan - 😂 It’s ok; it probably works better that way. 

Doug - thank you! And I agree with Rob; that mechanic was impressed with you. It’s pretty hard to be mad at a kid who was trying to learn. Also your dad seems like a stand-up guy; I think my dad would have declared the bike a total loss and tossed the pieces in the trash.

Steve Cole - tell the mechanics you want a discount because you already started the work for them. 🤭

You guys are good sports,

Leah

Sent from my iPad

On May 5, 2020, at 7:06 AM, Steve Palincsar <pali...@his.com> wrote:



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[Steve Palincsar]

-- https://www.renehersecycles.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/BQTireDrop.pdf

On 5/5/20 10:28 AM, Leah Peterson wrote:

See, I can already add another post to this list of Dumb Things I Did and it hasn’t been 24 hours. 

Yesterday, when I found out about tire pressure, you know I went around with my floor pump and inflated ALL the tires of the bikes in the garage. Baby Bear weighs almost 60 pounds and his Specialized 24 inch got 60 pounds of air (fun!). #TheClemRider is about 85 pounds and got 55 pounds of air in his 26 inch Kendas on his Clem. Won’t they be surprised when they head down Killer Hill?! 😱

And remember, it's not just the vibration.  Hit a pothole the wrong way on a grossly over-inflated wide tire and it'll act just like a basketball when you slam it down onto the pavement.   SPROING and it'll rebound back at you.  You may be expecting a bump, but you probably won't be ready for the bars pulling up out of your hands.

Now, excuse me while I go fix THAT. It might be one thing for me and Steve (since we weigh the same, you know) to inflate our tires to 55, but my kids don’t know what I’ve done and did NOT in fact, grow up riding horses. Yikes.

  

Just for scale.

Ok, Steve, I’ll stop busting your chops. You had it coming though, and also it was hilarious. 🤣

--

[Patrick Moore]

Wait: Leah weighs less than 170? Boy Steve, you blew that one.

Back to tire pressure: I recall how as a boy I first saw "Inflate to 70 psi" on the side of my cheap 27 X 1.25" gumwalls, and after pumping them to more or less that (probably per gas station gauge), how fast the bike felt, and nope, it wasn't due to vibations, which has never been an indicator of speed for me; it's always been ease, or perceived ease of pedaling, along with a feeling of smoothness; ie bikes feel faster on smooth roads than bumpy ones, all else equal.

But the question of pressure relates to tire quality too. Cheap tires really do go, or at least feel, faster when hard -- try riding a $15 Walmart 2" knobby at 35 psi! Pump it to 50 and it's much better. OTOH, I've let really supple tires deflate potentially disastrous levels -- 30-something psi on a 28 mm Elk Pass (I do weigh 50 lb less than 220) -- and didn't notice that they were low until I started bouncing in the saddle. Once I got a rear puncture and didn't notice it until someone behind me noticed the flat profile and said, "Puncture!" She then asked, "Didn't you notice it?" -- very surprised that such sagging hadn't caused massive drag. But not, the Elk Pass feels normally fast even at pressures way below appropriate.

With the Big Ones, just as supple, I've not noticed mid-teens in the back until sidewall flop in a corner almost causes me to wipe out.

So there is a huge difference in the effect of air pressure on rolling resistance when comparing top quality and cheap quality tires.

[aeroperf]

I got a Schwinn when I was six.  We lived in a lovely town in northern New Jersey that was about 4x5 miles big.  I rode that bike all over that town.  Thousands of miles.
When I was 14, I rode to a neighboring town which had a bike shop because I actually needed a new chain.
As I pulled up, the guy working there said “Have you considered raising the seat?”.  My response - “You can raise a bicycle seat?”  My first lesson in bicycle fit.

So now whenever I see folks pedaling on the Comet with their knees up into their chins, I think of that.  I don’t say it out loud, unless I know the person, but I think of it.

Pressure - With my bike I’m 220 pounds and I run 60 psi on 42mm tires.  Just thought I’d throw that out to whomever is making up a spreadsheet of these pressures (and I know you’re out there).

[Zed Martinez]

I'm with Patrick on the tire mattering a lot. I ride more the utility/brick side of tires than he does (and consequently have developed a habit of leaning towards higher inflations rather than lower), and the optimum balance between 'feels slow' and 'starts bouncing' can deviate notably from Jan's calculation and the graph that Steve showed. Curiously, I keep all three of my bikes between 45-60 PSI (45-50 front, 60-ish rear). Except they're all three different total (bike+me+stuff) weights, tire widths, and tire types. My 3-spd roadster with its 35mm Delta Cruisers works out a a bit low per the formula but I like the comfort more over the speed at that inflation on that bike, inflated per the suggestion I think I can feel every pebble bounce me. My road-ish Centurion 650b conversion with its 38mm Soma New Xpress tires is a bit high but not by a lot. The real outlier is my Clem with its 50mm Schwalbe Mondials, which are drastically higher inflated at 45/60 than the formula would suggest, but any lower than that and I can actually feel the increased rolling resistance over my seven mile commute. Like I left my brake on, or about the same feeling as using my bottle dynamo on the 3-spd. It's notable. If I tried to ride those down as low as 30-40PSI like suggested I'd feel like I was stuck in the mud. At 60 front and 70 rear they start getting that 'baseball' bouncy effect.

I always start with the formula's suggestion and then try 5-10 PSI over and 5-10 PSI under and tweak where I actually leave it for any given tire based on where it felt slugglish and where it felt bouncey.

[Zed Martinez]

In the real spirit of the thread, tires aside, my things I should have known was hubris management. After my first few bike builds I went into my original Clem pretty overconfident in myself, and I probably could've saved a couple of years of frustration and failed adjustments if I'd been less full of myself at the beginning and noticed more things like 'huh, the saddle keeps slipping down,' and more willing to just get a fitting once I got lost in the woods to give me a sanity check.

it was ultimately an expensive lesson, but, having learned it maybe the hardest way I could've set up for myself, it's one likely to stay with me. These days I remember there's somehow always a gap between feeling like one knows a lot, and actually knowing enough, and if I start by assuming I don't know enough it always goes better in the end than the reverse.

[Patrick Moore]

I recall being very proud of my new, very chi-chi Grafton triple after I installed it in place of the usual Deore (original) or XT triple I had been using. The Shimanos required (IIRC) a 122-123 mm spindle, so I stuck the Grafton on that. Then I noticed that it would not shift properly to the granny ring even with the inner stop backed all the way out. Infuriating. So I took it to a bike shop. I still remember the withering look the young shop rat gave me when he told me I had the wrong spindle. It had never occurred to me that different cranks required different spindles -- and I'd ridden quite a few builds with mismatched spindles and cranks, I guess, by that time.

--

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

[Patrick Moore]

Just for the record and for clarification, and not at all to disagree: by "bouncing" one can mean the ping pong ball sort of bouncing that comes from excessively high pressure, where even small bumps cause the tire to hop, or on the contrary, the bouncing that comes from pedaling on a tire so soft that it sags with each pedal stroke.

On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 9:17 AM Zed Martinez <iamzedm...@gmail.com> wrote:

... the optimum balance between 'feels slow' and 'starts bouncing' can deviate notably from Jan's calculation and the graph that Steve showed. 

[Garth]

Well let's see, Leah has been riding her bike all this time just fine without intervention from any "educating" her how she "ought to" ride her bike, and that her experience "could be better" somehow "if" she'd only listen to the so-called "wisdom". Hah hah .... all that totally ignores the fact that inherently Leah knows what she's doing and all is well, and that's that. 

This, as I was about to go on about how I ride Big Bens at very low pressure and that she could also ..... then realizing how silly that is to imply Leah should change a thing, as if I have a clue what her experience is like ! Not !

[Zed Martinez]

Just for the record and for clarification, and not at all to disagree: by "bouncing" one can mean the ping pong ball sort of bouncing that comes from excessively high pressure, where even small bumps cause the tire to hop, or on the contrary, the bouncing that comes from pedaling on a tire so soft that it sags with each pedal stroke.

Too right. Riding my bricks I tend to forget some tires get bouncy on the under inflated side, my experience once it gets too low is more like walking on sponges, as if the bike is somehow sinking into the road as I pedal. Which I suppose is like bouncing in reverse, in a way.

[Joe Bernard]

"Well let's see, Leah has been riding her bike all this time just fine without intervention from any "educating" her how she "ought to" ride her bike, and that her experience "could be better" somehow "if" she'd only listen to the so-called "wisdom". Hah hah .... all that totally ignores the fact that inherently Leah knows what she's doing and all is well, and that's that."

In my defense as a manly mansplainy mansplainer, Our Bicycle Belle ASKED me about tire pressure. And I gave her the exact right answer the rest of you are wrong I rest my case amen.

[John Rinker]

In Steve's defense (as amusing as this has been), I'm thinking his only real error was in mixing his measures. Perhaps, Steve, you meant to say '50kg heavier' as you offered your post-breakfast weight as 100kg. 

Perhaps it is time for my neighbors south of the 49th to revisit a full conversion to the metric system (except for carpentry!)

But, perhaps this suggestion falls squarely under the topic of Leah's thread. What I should have known.

On Monday, May 4, 2020 at 7:29:43 PM UTC-7, Steve Palincsar wrote:

On 5/4/20 9:41 PM, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:
> I nearly talked myself out of this thread because I’m about to make myself look really stupid, but it was so funny that I’m doing it anyway.
>
> I’ve been somewhat of a mess my whole Biking Life. I adored bikes, always, but I never had a proper bike education or a nice bike until 2012. I was born to the least mechanically-inclined parents on earth, and my mom was more proficient than my dad. I grew up riding the worst bike you can imagine, always with nearly-flat tires. Maybe once a year, usually in spring, Dad would haul my bike to the gas station and fill the tires with air. It was like riding on clouds. But eventually, my tires would lose air again and I’d have to wait until next year. Not that I’d notice anything was amiss - I was too busy riding barefoot all over small town North Dakota, falling out of trees, eating penny candy from the bowling alley and building forts. Tires, what tires.
>
> I grew up, went to college, met and married my husband, who grew up on a farm. We moved across the country with almost nothing and started our life and careers. My farmer father-in-law came to visit and outfitted our garage with tools he thought mandatory, including an air compressor. I think it was my 27th birthday that my husband told me he wanted to get me a bike. I knew just the one, it was *really* expensive at $125, but it was my birthday and I would get the best: A blue Schwinn Sidewinder from the local Walmart.
>
> While he was visiting, my FIL (again, a farmer and not a bike rider) noticed my bike tires were pathetically low. Of course I hadn’t noticed; flat tires were de rigueur for me! He filled them with the air compressor, pushed on the tire and declared it good. And from then on, that was how I did it.
>
> I’ve heard you all talk about your supple tires and not wanting them rock hard, and I knew *I* had supple tires because when I squeezed them, there was a tiny but perceptible give to the rubber. I mean, that’s what you all meant, right? So I made sure I never filled my tires very fully because supple tires were the ticket.
>
> I ended up with a floor pump last year. It has a gauge that tells you “how much pressure you runnin’”. I have started using it lately and began to pay attention to what my tire pressure was. 20-25. Huh. I remember folks discussing tire pressure and I didn’t recall theirs being so low. So, I asked Joe, who seems to answer most of the questions on the List and doesn’t seem to resent it. He (through fits of laughter at his keyboard, I’m sure) said that yes, I actually should be pumping up my tires to a certain number and that yes, they would feel rock hard, and no, squeezing them is not a good test, and indeed I would not explode my Big Bens (with max psi of 70) if I filled them to 55 psi.

OK, let's deconstruct this a bit.  I looked them up: according to
Schwalbe's web site a Big Ben no matter the diameter is either a 50mm or
a 55mm wide tire.   As you know, pressure is related to load: the
heavier the load, the more pressure you need.  No different here from
your car or truck.  I figure I'm probably 50 lb heavier than you (100 kg
after breakfast today) and I run my 38mm 650B tires at 4 atmospheres,
around 60 psi.  So if you at 75% of my weight are running a tire that's
maybe 15mm wider than mine and 5 psi less than I am, I'd say chances are
pretty good that you're inflating those tires to a much higher pressure
than you need to.  Chances are, if you reduce your pressure to perhaps
40 or maybe even a few psi less than that, you'd get a better ride.
You'd probably have less rebound after hitting a pothole, too. That's
another -- quite dangerous -- downside to overinflating a wide tire: it
can rebound like a basketball, pulling the handlebars right out of your
hands.  I've got a jagged lump in my collar bone because of that.

>
> I was today years old when I learned that your tires are *supposed* to feel rock hard and be filled to an actual number.

Not a big wide tire like that.  Now sure, a 23mm tire at 100 psi is
definitely going to feel rock hard.  I can feel the (ultra supple EL
casing) sidewalls on my Herse Loup Loup Pass tires give when I squeeze them.

>   I was today years old when I learned that my “supple tires” were just tires that were low on air.
>
> Who else has managed to miss the obvious when it comes to bike stuff?
>
> Leah, who would like you to know she is smart at other things. Just not bike things.
>

[John Rinker]

Related to this article from Bicycle Quarterly, I also have had this handy Gdoc floating around for a while on Tire Pressure Set-up. I probably got it off this group some time back. Incidentally, I run my WTB Nanos at low pressures(f-20, r-25) for the trail/fire road riding I do around here. Comfy ride all round, but it may be the reason I'm alway coming home too late- too much drag. 

[in Dallas nick]

I didn't know off the top of my head the kilogram to pounds so looked  it up and knew he was in trouble on the weight difference guess immediately b4 I read Leah's reply.

Yeah, decades ago I learned that lesson (guessing lady's weight) the hard way.

If a tire shows inflation range from say 50 to 80 psi, I just split the difference (65psi) in that case

and start there to see how it feels riding and adjust accordingly.

Being 5 pounds heavier than Steve's weight I particularly need a few more psi's on supple tires on the rear tire or it feels too squirmy.

I dont mind pumping air in tires so I play around with psi's until I get it right for me.

I agree, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding threads are a fun read.

Paul in Dallas

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

Oh, wow, you guys have, um, charts and EVERYTHING...all we could ever know about tire pressure. Gosh. Ok, well, while folks are poring over those, I have another anecdote that I’m meanly providing on my parents’ behalf. So, if you meet them in reality, you’ll pretend I never told you.

In 2019 my parents flew to Vegas to join us for a spring break road trip from Vegas to Northern California. We hit great stuff on the way like the giant sequoias in the Kings/Sequoia National Parks and met Dad’s half sister (discovered on Ancestry DNA) and more. We really made a week out of it. I had carved out time for a visit to Rivendell HQ, and while we were there, my dearest wish was to get Dad sized for a Super Huge Clem. He’s 6’ 3.5”, and nobody makes a bike that big without a top tube he has to swing his leg over. I’ve watched him nearly tip over while mounting his bike at home several times. I figured a Clem L would be just the thing for him, and Clems would be arriving at Rivendell late summer in 59 and 64 cm. But while we were there, Mom fell in love with a “sea foam green” Cheviot, so she is the one who left with a bike that day.

This spring Mom called and announced it was time for her Cheviot to come out of storage and get its tires aired up. It’s Mom’s bike. Those are Mom’s tires. So, naturally it’s Dad’s responsibility to fill them. Anyway, as she was telling me, I realized that they had not filled Mom’s tires last year - the shop had done it during assembly, and I’d have done it when I was home visiting in July. Dad, whose mechanical prowess could be rivaled by my 3 year old niece’s ability, would see a presta valve and lose his cool.

“Wait, Mom,” I said, “Dad won’t know how to fill your tire!”
“Pshhh, of course he will. He has an air compressor now.”
“No, Mom, you guys have never filled those tires. You need a little adapter for that air compressor or else a floor pump with a presta valve port.”
“Leah, it’s fine. He’ll know what to do.”

A short time later, I got a FaceTime call from Mom’s iPhone, but it was Dad’s angry face on the screen. He had just come in from hunting (joy, it’s turkey season!) and had discovered the presence of one presta valve on the tire. Dad and presta valves are natural enemies. Mom was standing expectantly in the background, assured that we would solve this for her. It’s not her problem!

“Why in the world would someone DO something like this?” my old man moaned. “That other kind works perfectly fine! We’ve got adaptors for those! Everyone has adaptors for those!”

I don’t think he said “cotton pickin’” but when someone up north says cotton pickin’ you know they mean business, and he was close. I had to show him how the presta valve worked, and he said they were going to town in a few days and would pick up a floor pump.

That was a week or two ago and that Cheviot is still stranded in prison with two flat tires. As of 4 minutes ago, Mom insists that Dad is going to fill her tires when he gets back from the post office. I’m charging my iPhone so I’m ready for the FaceTime call I’ll be getting from Dad here shortly. 🙄🙄🙄

[alfonsejr]

I'll play; I learned two things on one incident with square taper crank removal. First thing is checking for a washer after removing a crank bolt is a step whose importance should not be underestimated. Second thing is when turning a bolt is ridiculously difficult, especially on a bike, you should (nearly always) stop trying to turn the bolt. I stopped after crank removal tool removed crank dust cap threads, caused by tool pressing on the left-behind washer instead of bottom bracket axle. I remember seeing little silver threads right before it became much easier to turn the crank removal handle.

I guess I learned a third lesson - how to use drill chuck wedges to remove a stripped crank arm...

[Clark Fitzgerald]

I was so sure I knew how bottom brackets are threaded. I destroyed a couple tools trying to remove a 70mm Italian bottom bracket, which are not threaded the same as the more conventional 68mm bottom bracket. 

Regarding tire pressure, cornering on my bike starts to get vague when the front tire pressure gets down to 17 PSI, on 57mm tires with a bike + gear + rider weight around 205 lbs. At 19 PSI all is well. I use an accurate bleeder gauge to measure pressure, since the gauge on my floor pump is at least 20-30% off, and worse at low pressure.

-Clark

[George Schick]

I posted a reply to this thread, but it's stuck in moderator hell.  I have several Gmail accounts and I was logged in using an account that is not registered on this blog.  If it gets posted, it gets posted; if it don't, it don't. Groan.

On Monday, May 4, 2020 at 8:41:14 PM UTC-5, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:

I nearly talked myself out of this thread because I’m about to make myself look really stupid, but it was so funny that I’m doing it anyway.

I’ve been somewhat of a mess my whole Biking Life. I adored bikes, always, but I never had a proper bike education or a nice bike until 2012. I was born to the least mechanically-inclined parents on earth, and my mom was more proficient than my dad. I grew up riding the worst bike you can imagine, always with nearly-flat tires. Maybe once a year, usually in spring, Dad would haul my bike to the gas station and fill the tires with air. It was like riding on clouds. But eventually, my tires would lose air again and I’d have to wait until next year. Not that I’d notice anything was amiss - I was too busy riding barefoot all over small town North Dakota, falling out of trees, eating penny candy from the bowling alley and building forts. Tires, what tires.

I grew up, went to college, met and married my husband, who grew up on a farm. We moved across the country with almost nothing and started our life and careers. My farmer father-in-law came to visit and outfitted our garage with tools he thought mandatory, including an air compressor. I think it was my 27th birthday that my husband told me he wanted to get me a bike. I knew just the one, it was *really* expensive at $125, but it was my birthday and I would get the best: A blue Schwinn Sidewinder from the local Walmart.

While he was visiting, my FIL (again, a farmer and not a bike rider) noticed my bike tires were pathetically low. Of course I hadn’t noticed; flat tires were de rigueur for me! He filled them with the air compressor, pushed on the tire and declared it good. And from then on, that was how I did it.

I’ve heard you all talk about your supple tires and not wanting them rock hard, and I knew *I* had supple tires because when I squeezed them, there was a tiny but perceptible give to the rubber. I mean, that’s what you all meant, right? So I made sure I never filled my tires very fully because supple tires were the ticket.

I ended up with a floor pump last year. It has a gauge that tells you “how much pressure you runnin’”. I have started using it lately and began to pay attention to what my tire pressure was. 20-25. Huh. I remember folks discussing tire pressure and I didn’t recall theirs being so low. So, I asked Joe, who seems to answer most of the questions on the List and doesn’t seem to resent it. He (through fits of laughter at his keyboard, I’m sure) said that yes, I actually should be pumping up my tires to a certain number and that yes, they would feel rock hard, and no, squeezing them is not a good test, and indeed I would not explode my Big Bens (with max psi of 70) if I filled them to 55 psi.

I was today years old when I learned that your tires are *supposed* to feel rock hard and be filled to an actual number. I was today years old when I learned that my “supple tires” were just tires that were low on air.

[William deRosset]

Hi, All,

Ok, I'll play.

I was thirteen when I rode my first century. I lived in Slidell, Louisiana at the time, and I rode to Biloxi, Mississippi along the coast. It was a lovely ride on old US 11, and the first half of the ride went really well--sun-kissed slabs of shell-aggregate concrete. You could say I was sailing right along, all right, on my Huffy, spinning out those cranks. 

I stopped for a Coke, exhausting my ride budget, refilled the bottle with water from the tap, and turned around. There was an invisible hand pressing on my chest. A whistling in my ears. A headwind all the way home. I took under 3h for the first fifty miles, and I got back just before dark, 10h after starting. 

I also learned that I have to eat from time to time, and that I should really bring money when I travel unless I plan to forage while riding. Roadside foraging in Mississippi is as appetizing as it sounds. I get reminded of this fact about annually, so this may well be something that I should have learned, and forget too frequently.

Best Regards,

Will

William M. deRosset

Fort Collins, CO

[William deRosset]

Replying to myself: 

A correction: I thought "old us 11" was the Chef Menteur highway. It turns out that the correct road is US 90, not US 11.

A point of clarification: I get reminded that "I need to eat from time to time," not that "...[r]oadside foraging in Mississippi is as appetizing as it sounds."

Best Regards,

Will

[Alex Wirth- Owner, Yellow Haus Bicycles]

Leah threads are the best. Now I’m turning off my phone so nothing can ruin my day.

🤓

Alex

[Leah Peterson]

❤️, Alex. You have made my day, too. Have the best one out there, preferably with your bear cubs on their tiny little bikes.

Sent from my iPad

> On May 6, 2020, at 5:02 AM, Alex Wirth- Owner, Yellow Haus Bicycles <482...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Leah threads are the best. Now I’m turning off my phone so nothing can ruin my day.
>
> 🤓
>
> Alex
>

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[Dave Johnston]

The charts above and Jan's data has been combined with some other testing and put in a tool here:

https://info.silca.cc/silca-professional-pressure-calculator

Enter your bike weight and tire size and it will give you a recommendation that is a good start. add or subtract ~ 10% for a feel you like. I gave them my email for the pro version but the basic is good enough.

-Dave J

[Joe Bernard]

I hope Leah hasn't bounced off her bike from my terribly misinformed tire pressure recs. I should have used a chart.

[Leah Peterson]

I’d have never read it - you’re absolved.

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 6, 2020, at 7:39 PM, Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I hope Leah hasn't bounced off her bike from my terribly misinformed tire pressure recs. I should have used a chart.

>
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[Scott Lutz]

Oh man, I have a lot of stories about self-teaching myself bicycle mechanics. A few years ago I found a NOS Panasonic lugged mountain bike frame. It didn't have a fork. I paid all of 40 bucks for it at a bike swap. I bought a chrome Tange fork with a 1" threaded steer tube and a cheap Tange headset. I installed the headset (something I had done plenty of times before), it felt off, but I built up the rest of the bike with spare parts anyway. I took it out for a spin and while the bike rode great, the headset was really tight if I spun it one way and it would loosen when I spun it the other way. I took the front end apart, re-installed it, and the same thing kept happening. If you have ever looked at the cheapest Tange headset installation instructions, they are photocopy quality and small. I new something was wrong but I had done everything correctly. I gave up on the project for the time being. 

    Every once in a while that bike would look at me funny and I'd throw it in the stand and tear down the headset, look at the instructions, and put it back together. It never went together correctly. I figured it was a bad headset and planned on buying a new one some day. Well, someday I did and as I unpacked the new part from the box, I noted that the bottom bearing cage was reverse of how I had it installed on the other headset. I looked at the instructions again, this time like a magic eye poster, I could see it...there was a slightly darker line on the bottom indicating the the cage should be oriented up. I loosened the headset nut, flipped the bearing cage, put the fork back in, tightened it all up, and smooth as butter. 

    I have had the same issue with IKEA instructions. I am not a visual learner.

    On my very first good adult bike I installed a rear rack and fenders with the fender stays outside the rack struts. An elder kindly pointed out that there may be a better way. 

    I used to think I had to wait until a patch on an tube was dry enough to pull the plastic cover off. I took forever to patch a tire. A kindly elder pointed out that there is no need to remove it, you just throw it in the tire and go. 

   The first wheel I ever built was terrible in so many ways. The worst part was this: I had a friend crashing in my pantry and he had some bike tools. He showed me how to lace a wheel and gave me general instructions on how to build it. "Get the spokes tight but don't strip the nipples." Okay, I grabbed the spoke wrench in his kit and got to work. At a certain point I could feel the spoke wrench starting to slip so I finished truing, stressing, repeat. Cool, done. The wheel would not stay true, were wobbly, flexy, and just awful. I kept throwing it in the stand and trying to fix it. It was only after some bike shop stalking that I noticed that there were different color spoke wrenches. I casually asked the shop keep what the difference was. Oh, of course, there are different sized spoke nipples. I had borrowed the red Park Tool wrench, I needed the black one. Yikes. 

   

[Eric Floden]

I seem to have a genius for installing things other than the way intended. A few years ago I got a VO long-setback seat post mailed to me for my Fargo/Brooks combination, and I managed to install it facing the wrong way. (There were only two way to install it, I got the wrong one...) The saddle did not adjust far enough to sit on comfortably (no kidding) and as it turned out I needed my local shop (the now-gone Dizzy's) to attend to another matter. The shop mechanic came out and very nicely, quietly, and non-judgementally asked me something like:

" Excuse me, but are your umm, differently-abled in a way that required you to install your seat this way? "

I admitted I was still fine-tuning the installation, and he offered to speed up the process for me, by installing it properly. I blushed my thanks to him and the story ended happily.

EricF

getting it right, eventually

Vancouver BC

[Corwin]

I don't think I would trust the Silca tool. Put in my weight and my bike's weight - conservatively over estimating both. The tool gave me pressures of 50 & 48psi for rear and front tires respectively.

At those pressures, I have experienced frequent pinch flats.

Namaste,

Corwin

[masmojo]

Leah, I remember you posting your weight somewhere else here (or was it an email?) Anywhose, I got a pretty good idea of your weight and an idea about your tires width. Based on that I would say that 30ish PSI is a good starting point. Slightly more rear, less front. Once you get a good feel for riding at the proper pressure you'll know instinctively when it's off. Bike feel slower than normal? Needs more air. Rough an unforgiving? Let some out.

Most of the unfortunate things I've misunderstood have been song lyrics. It's so funny to be listening to a song you've heard a thousand times and suddenly realize you've had it wrong for 40 years!

The other things I've got wrong? I'll take to the grave! LOL

[Joe Bernard]

"Most of the unfortunate things I've misunderstood have been song lyrics. It's so funny to be listening to a song you've heard a thousand times and suddenly realize you've had it wrong for 40 years!"

My thing is reading words wrong and never making the connection. The other day I saw 'infrared' on the TV screen and realized it's...the word you understand as infrared. I've always read is as in-FRAIRED even though I know the word as correctly pronounced when I hear it. Which doesn't even make sense!

I probably shouldn't be admitting this incredibly stupid thing...

[Steve Palincsar]

And of course, for those who were children attending religious instruction, who could forget Gladly the Cross-Eyed Bear?

[aeroperf]

Joe:

We all do that.

[Leah Peterson]

Oh, yes, words. My favorite. This is where I put my plug in for e-books over paper books. I adore e-books, and right now they are enjoying their moment in the sun as paper books are difficult to come by with the closure of libraries, book stores, and the sloth shipping of stores that actually are open for business.

My point is that in e-books, you can touch a word unfamiliar to you and a dictionary definition will appear. I love this because when reading aloud to my sons, they would inevitably ask “what does that mean?” Well, it’s nice to have a succinct and proper definition instead of trying to come up with words on the spot, and thus I became dependent on the dictionary feature. The surprising thing to me, is how many words I have been defining based on my understanding of the context, rather than the dictionary. See: penultimate and nonplussed. I’ll give you two sentences, and you can look them up in Merriam-Webster and see if you guessed right.

1. Nonplussed: Leah was, in a word, nonplussed at Steve’s guesstimate of her weight. (There will be two definitions; one that is correct and one that is an “Americanism - accepted though wrong because enough people use it in this way. 🙄 I mean it in the correct sense of the word. 🤣🤣🤣

2. Penultimate: The penultimate chapter of the book I’m reading is where you’ll find the key to the plot. (Sorry, couldn’t come up with a clever bike-related sentence for this one.)

Also - do we have Potter fans on the List? I read Hermione as Her-ME-Own. Nope. It’s Her-MY-oh-nee.


Sent from my iPad

> On May 7, 2020, at 1:11 PM, Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> "Most of the unfortunate things I've misunderstood have been song lyrics. It's so funny to be listening to a song you've heard a thousand times and suddenly realize you've had it wrong for 40 years!"

>
> My thing is reading words wrong and never making the connection. The other day I saw 'infrared' on the TV screen and realized it's...the word you understand as infrared. I've always read is as in-FRAIRED even though I know the word as correctly pronounced when I hear it. Which doesn't even make sense!
>
> I probably shouldn't be admitting this incredibly stupid thing...
>

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[Joe Bernard]

Nonplussed: Unbothered

Penultimate: The one just before last, i.e., "The driver is on the penultimate lap of the race, one more to go after this."

These are my guesses, Leah would figure me out in a hot second if I cheated. I don't know how she would know but she WOULD SO KNOW.

[George Schick]

OK, I frequent an entirely different blog where the moderator has been advertising a special e-book price for a book that I've been wanting to read, but have resisted the cost (the hardback is 3-4 times the e-book special).  This discussion has convinced me - I'm going to get it!

> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.

[Joe Bernard]

Here's a thing I ought to have known by now: How to put my tools down all in one spot. I'm finishing the build on my custom and I can't tell you how many times two Allen wrenches and one small screwdriver have ended up in three different places. And not even the same three places!

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

George, go get yourself your very first ebook! If you need tips and tricks or general help, you just go ahead and PM me. I can’t offer you a lick of bike advice, but what treasure I have, I give to thee.

The format that I held out on the longest was the audiobook format. A lover of podcasts, you would think I’d have jumped at the chance for an audiobook. But I really love them now, mostly so I can do other things. Steam mopping, laundry, cooking...all mundane tasks that are made enjoyable because of audiobooks.

Joe - you are half right. Your years of car racing fandom have paid off on the definition of penultimate. But you used the Americanism for “nonplussed.”

[Joe Bernard]

Ack, I was half right. Which for me is an improvement!

[George Schick]

Oh, I've either purchased or "checked out" ebooks from the library many times, so that's not an issue.  I was just holding out on the price, even the steeply discounted eBook price on the particular volume in which I was interested.  All I needed was the motivation to push me over the edge, which your missive provided, to go download the thing.  I'm enjoying reading it at this moment.

[Andrew Letton]

I recently had a similar experience with the recommended pressures from the Silca tool - for Snoqualmie Pass tires and rocky fire roads - double pinch flat on a recent ride.

cheers,

Andrew

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[masmojo]

Leah, a couple years ago, we got my son a Kindle, I was a bit perplexed because he already had a tablet!?
Well, he reads a lot! And he wanted the Kindle because, they are allowed in school & regular tablets are not. Also, he was reading so many books that they were rapidly stacking up around the house; he was going to the library, but even they were challenged to provide a steady stream of the things he likes. So we plunk down the money, he uses it for a couple months, but then it gets stuck in the corner. Why? Well, as it turns out e-books are not cheap! Sure, there's plenty of free "classics" but many times the books he like would be the same price as the hard back or more? And quite frequently we could get a coupon for the physical book making it cheaper!
Or, second hand copies cost almost nothing.
Now he still pretty much reads constantly, but he typically just reads stuff on his phone. He reads translated versions of Japanese light novels (sorta like Manga without the pictures) & he's found some websites that carry oodles of that stuff.
So, now the Kindle sits on a shelf, kinda feels like a missed opportunity!?
😐

[Leah Peterson]

Mas, did your son connect his Kindle to his library apps? Ebooks and audiobooks are often as pricy as print format, but you can’t beat getting your books from the library for free with a touch on your screen. Never having to pick up and drop off books is just amazing.

Yes, if you are a reader with a proclivity to read really niche stuff or books written a long, long time ago, then you’ll have better luck in print. My Dad has rooms full of dusty old hardbacks about Custer and other very specific historical people/events and he would never be able to find his books at the library or in e-book/audiobook format.

But for most everyone else, virtual books are just the ticket. And thank God for them - it’s been so delightful to have whatever we want to read one click away from our library app. Gosh, I’m tempted to start a What To Read In COVID Times thread now, but that is most certainly off topic and would likely be frowned upon...

Carry on!

Sent from my iPad

> On May 8, 2020, at 7:19 AM, masmojo <mas...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> Leah, a couple years ago, we got my son a Kindle, I was a bit perplexed because he already had a tablet!?

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[David Johnston]

I sort of take the results from the Silca tool as a Minimum. I guess I
should have said that. I have gotten a pinch flat and dented rim on
the front, but I hit the edge of that pothole hard. Earlier that same
day I rode a trail down by the river with some short rocky portions no
problem. But the rocks down there are usually rounded by water.

Maybe you should give Josh some feedback if you are getting double pinch flats.

-Dave J

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[Clayton Scott]

Chances are your pump gauge may be off.

My 20 year old Silca Pista's pressure gauge is purely ornamental. 

Back when I first saw that Berto chart I dismissed it as absurd, but it was the pump that was way off.

Now I use an SKS pressure checker gizmo if I really want to know, but most of the time I rely on my thumb.

Clayton Scott

HBG, CA

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[Eric Daume]

That's funny, one my usual reasons for a ride is to return library books (~16 mile round triip). When one of the kids comes along, we usually stop for Jeni's ice cream nearby.  I miss this with the library shut down.

It's not nearly the same just to ride there and ride back, without books.

Eric

Plain City OH

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[Philip Williamson]

As a conduit for the above-linked Google doc, and a collaborator on an iPhone app based on it, I much prefer the Silca app to either of those. This link goes to the Pro version: https://silca.cc/pages/sppc-form?submissionGuid=542af2ca-a32b-4a31-8609-9e93df4d4062
I imagine if they’re looking at the data, they’ll think my email is associated with a bot farm or something. They haven’t spammed me or anything.

Things I should’ve known... these are mostly self-taught software issues. I once made a Photoshop action to collapse all visible layers, select all, copy, and then revert to the layers version, in order to get a quick copy on the clipboard. I assigned the action to a function key, and happily used it for a few months, until I saw my friend use... the built in keyboard shortcut for “copy visible.”
Just the other month Jim Edgar (our beloved list admin) shared that on an iPhone or iPad keyboard, you can long-press the space bar and zoom the cursor around the screen and put it anywhere you want.
And several months ago my new work Mac crashed. Where is the power button to turn it back on?? I’d been using PCs for years. No button on the side. Top, front, where? Oh! Unmarked unlabeled piece of trim slightly shinier than the rest of the trim.

I had a flat about a year ago and rolling the bike made a lump-lump-lump once per revolution. I’d left the dork nuts on the valve stem... inside the tire! Both wheels! More of an oversight than an ignorance, but still!

Philip
A tinker not a mechanic in 95404

On Wednesday, May 6, 2020 at 7:22:25 PM UTC-7, Dave Johnston wrote:

[Austin B.]

My first attempt at installing a new crankset on a square-taper BB went as poorly as it could a few years back. The spindle lengths matter for what? Here's how it went (Bold are actions I took, italics are my thoughts as best I can recall):

1. Shiny new drive-side crankset goes on the spindle. Crank down the bolt. Done. Terrific! That was easy!
2. Inspect by brilliant handy work. Oh wait, why the heck isn't this thing spinning? Crap--the small chainring is jammed against the chainstay! Better remove the bolt and back it off.
3. Pulling and shimmying for a few minutes. This thing's on there good! Better use the crank puller.
4. Crank puller fail. Oh crap, it's so tight it just stripped the treads on my new crank! WTF??
5. Went to Google: "how to remove square-taper crankset"
6. Went to Amazon: order placed for pulling tool. Yeah, this will get it off.
7. Pulling tool arrives. Pulling tool fail. F#*k! This #$#%ing thing just ruined my crank!
8. Facepalm. Desperation sets in--to the Dremel tool. I just need to get the damn thing off. Screw saving the crank.
9. After about 20-30 minutes of cutting into my alloy crank, it came off the bike. I'm NEVER using a square-taper BB again.These things are cursed!

For the record, I am actually mechanically-inclined and do all of my own bike maintenance. But this was a blatant lack of understanding of these BB on my part. And despite swearing off square-taper BBs, I am actually running one on my Roadeo which I've installed successfully myself on two different bikes.

Learning has occurred.

Austin in MD

[Joe Bernard]

The learning curve for cranks and bottom brackets can be quite steep and expensive. Especially back in my day when Google was a book or magazine page you tracked down and hoped you understood the grainy pics. Good times!

[Brian Campbell]

4 or 5 years ago I picked up a vintage Trek 710 that ended up having a stuck seat post. I removed the crank set and put some penetrating fluid  into the seat tube via the open bottom bracket. I let it sit for a few days and it still would not budge.

An internet search showed me that I could clamp the seat in a vise and use the frame as a lever to break the stuck post free. So I did.

A strong push, a cracking sound and movement! 

So I leaned in to it and split the seat lug down to the seat tube and bent it outward. The post was still stuck and it was the seat lug breaking rather than the post moving. l learned that force is not always your friend. Its one I have to keep remanding myself of over & over when it comes to bike repair......

[Abcyclehank]

My admissions have more to with the growth of my bikes than mechanical lessons. I consider myself a complete novice when I started my own maintenance and repairs. With low or no expectations one can expect mistakes and simply learn from them. Fortunately none of my maintenance has cost me financially really.
Now regarding hunting and finding jumbo Rivendells that fit my almost 100PBH measurement I make mistakes all the time justifying the next addition due to their rarity and long stretches of nothing coming up for sale.
Several times I have justified a purchase telling myself I would sell 1 or 2 off following the new purchase.
Now I realize my failure at following through with that behavior. The new plan is to sell first before purchasing a new jewel when it presents itself.
I have a special credit union checking account earning 3% interest linked to a Paypal account which is the new criteria I use for new bike desires. No money no bike/wheels/parts/etc.
Since bikes are my main vice in retirement I feel ok with my childlike wanting desires and have a mature adult like check and balance system.

Sincerely,
Ryan Hankinson
West Michigan

[Steve Palincsar]

A good rule to bear in mind is, if you don't know what you're doing maybe you should just let the LBS take care of it.

On 5/13/20 2:54 PM, Joe Bernard wrote:

The learning curve for cranks and bottom brackets can be quite steep and expensive. Especially back in my day when Google was a book or magazine page you tracked down and hoped you understood the grainy pics. Good times! 

[Austin B.]

I generally only apply this approach when it comes to wheels and frame repair. My attempts to true a wheel only made it worse. 

Austin

[Joe Bernard]

A good rule to bear in mind is if you don't know what you're doing you can read stuff and watch videos and learn.

[Steve Palincsar]

Yes, but you can't learn stuff like the difference between too loose, just right and oh shit from a video.

On 5/13/20 6:56 PM, Joe Bernard wrote:

A good rule to bear in mind is if you don't know what you're doing you can read stuff and watch videos and learn.  

[Steve Palincsar]

On 5/13/20 6:49 PM, Austin B. wrote:

I generally only apply this approach when it comes to wheels and frame repair. My attempts to true a wheel only made it worse.

Me too

One of the easiest ways to ruin a wheel I've ever seen

Austin

On Wednesday, May 13, 2020 at 6:23:48 PM UTC-4, Steve Palincsar wrote:

A good rule to bear in mind is, if you don't know what you're doing maybe you should just let the LBS take care of it.

[Joe Bernard]

Yes, you can. I didn't figure out torque specs from some kid at the LBS telling me, I read and watched stuff online. Taking it to the LBS doesn't teach you how to do it yourself, and 50% of this forum is people teaching other people the things they don't know about bikes.

[masmojo]

Lately, I've been working on some BMX bikes; BMX bikes are so different from a "normal" bike. I personally think a hammer is not the appropriate tool for working on a bike, but it's absolutely essential when working on a BMX bike! LOL
And sometimes they require a lot of hammer; which feels unnatural, but also oddly satisfying!

[Philip Williamson]

I take refuge in the 'maybe' part of that rule.  

I'm not a mechanic, I'm a hobbyist. My bike tinkering used to be largely due to having non-standard ideas for bike setup, and then it was due to being fairly poor, and now I just like it. 

You do need to surrender ego when you step off the edge into the unknown. And again when you're doing stuff "you know how to do." 

I'm always prepared to go down to the shop afterward and say, "Hey. Funny story. See this?" 

Philip 

Santa Rosa, CA 

[Joe Bernard]

I certainly don't begrudge anyone taking business to a bike shop. But I have to insist bike mechanics can go from "don't know" to "know" via a handy phone and a search window. Or asking right dang here!

[lconley]

I first started working on bikes in 1969 when I was working on the Cycling Merit Badge in the Boy Scouts. Had to do 6 @ 25 mile rides  and one 50 mile ride - all accomplished on a 2-speed Sting-Ray, but back to the point. My friend who was working on the merit badge with me - his father showed us how to take apart two bikes - one a Schwinn coaster brake bicycle with one-piece Ashtabula crank, and another English 3--speed with a cottered crank. I have been working on my own bikes and occasionally other bikes ever since. Other than the initial schooling for the merit badge, I am self taught and I have never worked in a bike shop. Until recently, I did everything myself except headset installations on new bikes. Then I had the LBS install a1-1/8" IRD roller bearing headset on a VO Neutrino. They installed it upside down. You cannot assume that the LBS knows what they are doing (re: Leah and her rear fender). Nobody cares more about my bike than I do, Some care equally, a lot care less. I have broken some parts over the years, but honestly - I learned more from the mistakes. I usually build my own wheels, but I am not Rich Lesnik or Peter White - I have wheels by both and they are definitely better than mine, but mine are much better than they were a few years ago.

I was completely baffled by threadless headsets when I bought my first bike with one about 20 years or so ago (a LeMond Buenos Aires). I thought the screw in the top was just to hold the cover on the top - no idea that it was how you set the bearing pre-load. Finally figured it out when I was in an LBS buying a tube and the mechanic was working on a headset then it was painfully obvious how simple it was. Still prefer threaded (mostly based on appearance). Note - I prefer bike shops where they work on the bikes out in the open - not hidden in the back room.

I do have a great mechanical aptitude and I am a mechanical engineer. If you can assemble an Ikea cabinet, you can probably do your own bike work. They didn't have it when I was growing up, but YouTube is great (but not always correct). You just need to buy the specialized tools when needed and be willing to break a few things.  Otherwise you may need to leave it to the pros.

Laing

Delray Beach FL