Talking rims: Quill vs. Cliffhanger

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

This post is belated, because I’ve already placed the order, but I still want to talk about it with you anyway, even if your opinion is that I did the wrong thing.

I’ve had lots of growth and change to my bike life in the past 5 years. My 55 cm Platypus has morphed from ‘20 Everything Bike ➡️’22 Road Racer ➡️ ‘25 Bike tourer and camper. 

Since acquiring the OG Platy, I’ve added 3 more bikes, most of which have fancy, anodized parts in themed color schemes. I’ve been wanted to do a refresh on my favorite bike, and with my 2nd son getting a college Platy, I decided to move some of my parts to his bike and fancy up my raspberry dream of a bike.

I’m lucky to (for now) live 45 min from Velocity HQ. I know and ride with several Velocity folks, including their anodizer, so ordering a wheelset from them is so dang fun. I decided to do a deep custom cosmic galaxy theme for color. I was going to choose Quills again, since that’s what’s on all my other bikes. The rep said if it was her bike, she’d “go with Cliffs” since my 45 mm tires are already on the max end of the Quill allowances. She’s a phenomenal rider, and I trust her judgement, but I did some hand-wringing because my love for Quills runs DEEP. I ran it by a couple other bike guys and they seemed to think she was right, so that’s what I ordered. I think the Cliffhangers might be a bit overkill for me and what I haul, but I hope they don’t make me feel slow. I like the idea that they will be sturdy enough to carry all my touring and camping gear (I don’t travel light!).

Now I wait. I’m not sure what the lead time is, but I placed the order Monday. I sent Ashley Anodized It a fresh new pair of Silver 3 cranks and a chain guard. Could be a really great project, or I might get it wrong. Who knows. But it was fun! 

What do the Cliffhanger-havers think of those rims? Are they noticeably heavy/slow? My college boy has a set on his Clem but he notices nothing , we I can’t ask him…

Leah

[Bob]

I have Cliffhangers on my All Rounder. The bike does not seem noticeably slower than bikes with other rims. I will say, though, that the tire clearance limitations of the frame might make Atlas a better rim choice. If I ever build a dynamo-hubbed front wheel for the bike, I may switch.

--

Bob

[Richard Rose]

Hi Leah. I actually had a conversation with Richard L about this exact thing - in the opposite direction. I have Cliffhangers on the Clem & Gus. They have been bulletproof. But they are heavy compared to quills as you know. I was thinking I would like to make the Gus lighter & talked to Richard about a set. I was concerned as I was running 2.4” tires. Rich thought the quills would be just fine on the quills. In the end I decided not to chase the weight savings. I still wonder though.

Solution? Two wheelsets?:)

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 18, 2026, at 12:54 PM, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:

This post is belated, because I’ve already placed the order, but I still want to talk about it with you anyway, even if your opinion is that I did the wrong thing.

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[Brian Turner]

My favorite Velocity rims are the Atlas, but I have Cliffhangers on my Gus because I’m running 2.5” tires tubeless. If I were running 47-48mm+ tires, I’d probably go with Cliffhangers. Anything smaller, I would always choose Atlas. Quills are a nice rim, and if lightweight was a factor for me (it never is, never has been), then a Quill wheelset might appeal to me more.

Brian

Lexington KY

On Apr 18, 2026, at 1:36 PM, Richard Rose <rmro...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Leah. I actually had a conversation with Richard L about this exact thing - in the opposite direction. I have Cliffhangers on the Clem & Gus. They have been bulletproof. But they are heavy compared to quills as you know. I was thinking I would like to make the Gus lighter & talked to Richard about a set. I was concerned as I was running 2.4” tires. Rich thought the quills would be just fine on the quills. In the end I decided not to chase the weight savings. I still wonder though.

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[Leah Peterson]

Atlas doesn’t take tubeless, so that ruled it out for me.

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On Apr 18, 2026, at 1:56 PM, Brian Turner <brok...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Ryan Fleming]

Well, I guess going to Cliffs is about 400 grams more of rotating weight than the Quills ...which is not nothing...but since you do not travel light when touring, I feel you probably did the right thing. I wouldn't wring my hands about it too much for a touring bike. I think your rep gave you sound advice (and certainly knows more than I do :)). But I know when I toured I quickly got over any fetish about light weight given all the gear I hauled. 

[Leah Peterson]

Ryan, yes, you speak so much truth here! Who cares when you have 50 lbs of stuff! I think for touring it was smart. I worry that for regular rides around town that now I’ll feel clunky. I hope not!

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On Apr 18, 2026, at 2:15 PM, Ryan Fleming <ryte...@mts.net> wrote:

Well, I guess going to Cliffs is about 400 grams more of rotating weight than the Quills ...which is not nothing...but since you do not travel light when touring, I feel you probably did the right thing. I wouldn't wring my hands about it too much for a touring bike. I think your rep gave you sound advice (and certainly knows more than I do :)). But I know when I toured I quickly got over any fetish about light weight given all the gear I hauled. 

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[Garth]

I'd get the Quills for the main everyday wheels and if I really needed something for heavy things I'd consider another wheelset for that. One must ask themselves, "how many times would I really need a set of heavy duty wheels ?".  I take it your build with from someone who knows what they're doing, so you'll be fine with the Quill based wheels. Light wheelsets are more fun than tank wheelsets, they just are. From experience of riding "touring" based Mavic wheels for 25 years, and another set with a Rhyno Lite rear rim(about the same weight as a Cliffhanger), the 100g rim difference is quite noticeable. Accelerating and hills accentuate it. I'm going to replace them both with something light-er, maybe with a Boyd rim(non-silver though). 

[Christian B-H]

Hey Leah! 
 I had atlas on my Platy before I dented the rear rim riding up a staircase (not advisable), and replaced it with a Cliffhanger. While I did notice it was slightly heavier and let my 50mm tires spread out a bit more, it didn’t ruin the ride by any means. I would probably go with Quills for an around tow bike, but if you’re gonna be camping and travelling with this bike you won’t regret the Cliffs. For what it’s worth, I reference this chart a lot for deciding tire vs rim width:

 https://www.wtb.com/pages/tire-rim-fit-chart

[Ryan Fleming]

but you have the peri fairy and purple pony ...and of course King Charles for those rides around town, mind you :)

[Jim Schultz]

I've got a bike with cliffhangers and 49mm tires (simworks homage) and I love it. they're made to be absolutely bombproof, so it definitely fits for an all terrain bike. 

[Leah Peterson]

Ryan, I totally do and this is what is wrong with me. Every time I specialize a bike I get upset that I’ve now limited it. That raspberry bike is my most special bike and if I can’t ride it normally outside of touring and camping I’ll be so sad about it. How often does one get to take bike trips?! I can’t be only riding it a few times a year, you know? Also, you are totally right - I have other bikes for that. 

So I will be rolling around on those bombproof rims around town, it seems!

On Apr 18, 2026, at 3:26 PM, Ryan Fleming <ryte...@mts.net> wrote:

but you have the peri fairy and purple pony ...and of course King Charles for those rides around town, mind you :)

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[Leah Peterson]

GOOD. This makes me feel better. 

And, I likely would have dented those Atlas or Quills. I recall the nice man through Warm Showers who tossed our bikes in the back of his pickup before he kindly drove us to his place for the night. We did not secure the bikes or fuss at ALL. I am likely better off with tougher rims for these shenanigans…

On Apr 18, 2026, at 3:36 PM, Jim Schultz <jamessc...@gmail.com> wrote:

I've got a bike with cliffhangers and 49mm tires (simworks homage) and I love it. they're made to be absolutely bombproof, so it definitely fits for an all terrain bike. 

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[Brian Turner]

Atlas is a heavy duty rim made for touring, commuting, and heavier riders. I’m sure they would hold up just fine to whatever abuse you’d put them through. I have a 26” set Peter White built me using Phil hubs, and they would survive an apocalypse. 

Brian

Lexington KY

On Apr 18, 2026, at 4:50 PM, Leah Peterson <jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Leah Peterson]

That is probably true, but I cracked one. I had them on my Betty Foy and was riding it around like that, unaware. Not until I was sitting next to the bike on the ground did I realize my tires were worn through, so I took my bike in. The mechanics discovered the cracked wheel and built me a new one. I wept over that wheel, fearing my Betty would never the be the same. I’m serious. 🤣

On Apr 18, 2026, at 4:58 PM, Brian Turner <brok...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Leah Peterson]

Actually, I’ve been scouring my old photos and can’t prove those rims were Atlas. I do see a “Velocity Synergy” sticker, whatever that is. Here’s the nasty tires!

On Apr 18, 2026, at 5:31 PM, Leah Peterson <jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:



[Johnny Alien]

I believe Synergy is the name of the rim. I think its one of those assymetrical rims right? I am not going to lie I can't keep any of it straight. BUT I have a Cliffhanger wheelset and love it. I think you will be happy with your decision

[Jay]

I think you made the right choice--you're touring, not trying to keep up on fast group ride--not sure you'll notice the positive or negatives as you'll probably just ride and forget about it after like an hour.

I do look forward to seeing more anodization thought--love your Charlie and it's northern lights theme.  I'm jealous, as I don't put enough time into colour choices, and I'm not creative enough to see the possibilities.

[Brian Turner]

The Atlas replaced the Synergy. They are very similar rims. I’ve read the Synergy had a reputation for cracking. This all checks.

Brian

Lexington KY

On Apr 18, 2026, at 8:22 PM, Jay <jason....@gmail.com> wrote:

I think you made the right choice--you're touring, not trying to keep up on fast group ride--not sure you'll notice the positive or negatives as you'll probably just ride and forget about it after like an hour.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/72daa554-5d72-4f2b-af21-8f0e3352c444n%40googlegroups.com.

[Nick Shoemaker]

Since I built up my Cliffhangers in '22, I have:

-ridden hundreds of miles of singletrack

-had lots of rim strikes

-schlepped increasingly heavy kids around

-done loaded backpacking

-finished two races (on a Clem!)

-trued them once

Great rims! Not slow. If you really nerd out on rim weight, you realize that it makes very little difference compared to rolling resistance. Just put a great set of tires on them and you should have zero regrets!

[Leah Peterson]

I have 3 bikes that have a theme, most of them with anodized or oil slick parts. The Northern Lights Charlie, as you mentioned, the rainbow’d My Little Platy (based on a rainbow-haired favorite My Little Pony from girlhood), and the Woodland Fairy Platy. The OG Platy is going cosmic galaxy, see example here: https://www.instagram.com/reel/DEB9oaYxSl7/?igsh=MTY0eDVleHZmbXlvNQ==

I also recently had custom bags made for it. I should really do a separate post on those bags, because I think they are about to be The Best Bags Ever. They are in the mail and I should have them soon. Sneak peek: 

So, I darn well better like those Cliffs because they will be all ano’d up. No switching!

Leah

On Apr 18, 2026, at 8:22 PM, Jay <jason....@gmail.com> wrote:

I think you made the right choice--you're touring, not trying to keep up on fast group ride--not sure you'll notice the positive or negatives as you'll probably just ride and forget about it after like an hour.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/72daa554-5d72-4f2b-af21-8f0e3352c444n%40googlegroups.com.

[Leah Peterson]

Awesome, Nick. Love this. I wonder if that’s why Riv gave me those heavy-duty Synergy rims - they knew I had little kids I was schlepping around. Can’t believe you raced your Clem! I would love to know what people said to you at the starting line!

On Apr 18, 2026, at 11:57 PM, Nick Shoemaker <fiddl...@gmail.com> wrote:

Since I built up my Cliffhangers in '22, I have:

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[Chris Lang]

I have Cliffhangers (36 spoke) on my Atlantis and Dyads (36 spoke) on my Sam.  

I think I will need to swap wheels and give a fair comparison between the two different bikes.  My Atlantis does feel slow with the Cliffhangers, but would be interested to see if my Sam feels slow with the Cliffhangers as well. 

Hopefully I can do the swap soon and update.  

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[Garth]

I like everyone else wonder why do rims fail. I mean it's not like Velocity would knowingly put out a product that would fail as that would be counter-productive to the very business that avails to sell the rims in the first place. I suspect they don't really know why they fail either as again, that would imply they knew better to begin with. From all account the Atlas is a good rim as it appears a wider version of the Synergy. Myself though I always considered the A23 as the practical replacement as it's the same width as the Synergy and offers the off-center version. Regardless none of us knows what goes in the sauce, so to speak, of the aluminum used for a given rim. The alloys do matter ! What Mavic calls Maxtal aluminum used on their better rims(Open Pro and A719 for example) looks, sounds and feels different than than their alloy used for say the A319. Velocity lists a different alloy for the Quill and their other high end rims, so there's more to it's strength than just it's shape. I've always wondered how well it wears as it's sidewalls are thinner than any other rim brake rim they offer, assuming the diagram is accurate and I have no reason to doubt it is. 

I know Leah already chose the Cliffhanger but for for Riv/Rich made wheels I wouldn't hesitate to use the Alex DM21 rims if I needed beefy but not Cliffhanger wide, for say up to 55mm tires. Or, simply as an alternative to Velocity rims. I know Crust has a very lightweight wide rim but I have not read or know much about Crust Wheel goods. 

What doesn't get spoken or written so much is the aerodynamics of wheels, bike and rider. Such is more difficult to quantify in relatable numbers and you can't easily measure it. You can get a good idea though if you're going down mountain passes and such at high speeds with just a speedometer. 

All of this said when talking rims the quality of the wheel build in total has much to do with the perception of a rim. Great parts assembled poorly may be blamed on the rim alone. Same with modest parts and a great build, the rim may be judged as outstanding. Remember rims don't ride of themselves ! 

Plus, do you ever notice how no two rides are ever alike ? Some days I feel like I'm flying and others like I'm riding through mud, and everything in between the extremes. 

[Nick Shoemaker]

Yeah, it was a hoot! Honestly, the racing crowd exceeded expectations - everyone was super friendly and several folks walked up to ask questions and get a better look at “that funny looking bike”. I decided to do it since my 6yo has taken in interest in these little kids races that happen before the big kid races; I wanted to make sure that he saw at least one grown up out there just having fun on a (to us) normal bike without shocks, droppers, etc. Turns out my concerns were overblown - in the second race, i managed to place the Clem on the podium behind the winner who happened to be on a parts bin Gary Fisher with rim brakes. So all is well in the world and we can stop worrying about the next generation for now :)

Back on topic…this return to racing had dragged me back down into the bike weight obsession from my road racing days, but I did read a number of articles that indicated that rim weight really wasn’t particularly impactful on your speed. Even the ‘huge’ delta between a pair of Cliffhangers and Quills is the same as a mostly full small water bottle. Anecdotally, I can also confirm that both times I’ve upgraded to lighter wheelsets in the past (Dyads > A23s, and 2000g > 1400g racing wheels) I was underwhelmed by the almost unnoticeable difference they actually made in practice. On the flipside, I’ve never regretted riding an overbuilt set of wheels when I inevitably smash into something and come through the other side upright & intact…

Can’t wait to see your next Platy Evo!

On Apr 19, 2026, at 11:25 PM, Garth <gart...@gmail.com> wrote:



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