Your cyclist vs. motorist war/horror stories

[Eric Marth]

First of all I'd like to note that starting this thread might not be a great idea. But perhaps it would be a way for us to share some experiences, vent or commiserate. 

Well, I think a lot of us have been there. We've had a weird, scary, too-close-for-comfort interaction with a motorist. It could be due to driver inattention or downright overt aggression. It could have been your fault or no fault of your own. Do you have a riding story involving a motorist you'd like to share? 

I live in Fredericksburg, VA, a small city built on a grid. We have an historic district here, many streets are narrow with one-way traffic. There are a few two-lane arteries designed to move cars. Posted speeds are 25 mph (I always drive slower and leave my truck in 2nd gear). People drive like maniacs on certain residential streets, sometimes reaching 50mph. I often wish for more traffic calming infrastructure, crosswalks, speed tables and the like. 

In March 2021 I was riding my bike to the bike shop, about a 1.5 mile trip. I was heading down a one-way street through a residential neighborhood with street parking on the right and long, grassy, landscaped park on the left. I was riding to the right side of the street. This section of road has one lane and it is unusually wide. There is room for someone to comfortably pass a cyclist. 

Someone honked their horn at me but not in the "Hi, heads up, I'm about to pass you please and thanks" sort of way but the "Get the fork off the road!" kind of way. It was startling. I responded by taking the lane, which is legal for cyclists in Virginia. I rode dead center in the middle of the lane. I hoisted a one-finger salute and carried on riding. I rode in the middle of the lane for approximately 100 feet before making a turn. 

Yes, this was an escalation. And it was a bad decision. I don't think I'm alone in feeling frustrated by displays of impatience and aggression from drivers and feel that I have certain rights as a human person to ride safely. It is sometimes difficult not to react in the moment. Motorists might be not only impatient but totally deranged. Road rage is real. And drivers are behind the wheel of a vehicle that is easily weaponized. With just a feather of the gas pedal or a slight turn of the wheel they can inflict irrevocable damage to a cyclist. 

The driver responded to my salute by getting within a few feet of my back wheel. When I  made a turn to carry on to the bike shop, they followed. I could hear them revving their engine behind me and feathering the gas to get close to my back wheel but not quite hit me. I continued to ride in the middle of the road. 

I heard something hit the street next to me. It was an unopened aluminum can of a carbonated beverage (I didn't go back to check out whether it was soda, beer or seltzer). Acknowledging the projectile I decided I had to bail and get up on the sidewalk or somehow turn around to where the car could not get to me. 

As soon as I moved to the side to take a driveway apron up onto the sidewalk the car passed me, then got right in front of me and slammed on their brakes. I braked hard and managed not to do an endo onto their trunk or hit their vehicle. The straddle cable hanger came loose from the front brake cable. The driver sped off. I did not get their plates. 

A few days later I went around the neighborhood and knocked on every door with a doorbell camera that was along the path of my interaction with the driver. Everyone I asked checked their footage but only one came back with anything showing me or the driver. There was a clip of the driver revving their engine behind me and throwing the can. You can see the can fly through the air and hear it land in the street. I got a good profile shot of the car (2005 Acura TL, maroon with custom window trim), but no view of the tags. 

This is, by far, the worst interaction I've had with a motorist. I've only been riding for a few years. There are others that aren't nearly as bad but still register as scary and unnecessary. They most often occur when a vehicle is passing. I find that a lot if not all of the hairy situations I've experienced with motorists would not have occurred if the drivers had demonstrated just 5 to 10 seconds of patience. 

[Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY]

Scary.

In the other direction, I got a good foot planted on the hood of an obnoxious Bentley that was being disrespectful of bicycle cross traffic. The driver looked super pissed and horribly distraught all at once. Not a Joe Bell, but the paint was pretty nice. I’ll do the same to any car, but fancy ones are a bonus. Classic angry cyclist exercising his privilege, I know.

On the other hand, as a teen in Las Vegas, I was riding along the shoulder of a desolate section of road when a car traveling my way passed going 90 or so. As they overtook me, I was surprised by something passing within inches of my head, the intense fizzy release sound in the distance ahead of me told me it had been an unopened can/missile. Knowing there was a red light not too far ahead, I never pedaled harder in my life in trying to catch them there, imagining that I’d send myself through their open window and try my best to kill everyone in the car. Luckily I never caught up…

Stupid all over the place, be safe out there, and always keep an eye out for escape routes

-Kai

[Joe Bernard]

I got "the honk" a couple weeks ago. I was on a residential street that narrows down from 35mph posted limit to 25 as it comes around a tight curve and shoots downhill. At the crest I took the lane with the knowledge that shortly I would be rolling at near 25 and a big black lifted pickup came off a side street at the same time. HONK! It was stupid and I briefly considered getting aggressive with cowboy, but I just as quickly deduced that getting run over or shot was probably not a good plan. I moved over and let Jethro through. My advice is always move over and let Jethro through, you're not going to win that incredibly stupid battle. 

[Ian A]

I had an incident last year thar still affects me. I was rolling along in the shoulder, enjoying the day en route the donut shop turnaround point (30 miles out, 30 back) when a pick up driver tried sideswiping me. He had to aim for me, this was intentional. My reactions meant I swerved clear, almost hard enough to take myself off. Luckily my tires held.

I had no interaction with driver prior to this. It was a driver who just wanted to punish a cyclist. 

I still feel stress following this incident and no longer ride that route at all. It's just not fun anymore.

I do live in oil country and among really good people, there are some very entitled and angry people who will bully and intimidate. 

Dealing with this stuff is difficult, but I would say this forum.is probably not the place for it.

IanA Alberta Canada

[Joe Bernard]

I moved this year and there's a 55mph 4-lane highway I use a lot, I don't love the speeds as the cars fly by but the emergency lane is wide and I don't worry about it too much. What PISSES ME OFF are the honkers who do it just to startle me cuz I guess it's hilarious.  Not a fan. 

[Curtis McKenzie]

Please be very cautious when choosing to engage with drivers.  Only they know what lurks in their minds at that moment.  

Curtis

Yielding to a 3000 pound mass of steel is a wise decision.

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[aeroperf]

My bike trail was closed for two weeks in April, 2020, so I rode 2 miles on the 45mph road to get to the next county where it was still open.
I stayed well to the right of the shoulder white line, but one day a passing driver came close enough to clip my rear-view mirror.  Handlebars went hard right, and I went over them - fortunately landing on a grassy berm.
I was uninjured (ok, one small new scar), and my Sam was fine, but the driver didn’t stop or even, as far as I could tell, look in his rear view mirror.
But by the amount of red paint embedded in my mirror mount, he’s probably still wondering who “keyed” his car.

The point - in addition to looking out for drivers who don’t think bicyclists should be sharing the road, you also have to look out for the oblivious drivers who don’t seem to be able to keep it between the lines.

[Joe Bernard]

Yep. I use a mirror and always have a "bail off to the right" plan. Which won't be helpful if I'm on the bridge over the channel and the bail-off is way down there in shallow water! 

[George Schick]

These are difficult issues for all of us, but the door often swings both ways.  A couple of years ago I had stopped at a point where a bike trail crosses a major state highway, waiting for the light to change so I could proceed across the intersection.  On the opposite side of the intersection were parents with their two small children waiting to cross to my side of the road.  When the light did change a car waiting to turn to it's right just kept on going in front of the group of cyclists, honking its horn as they turned.  One of the kids somehow made it across OK with their mother yelling loudly at the inconsiderate/unlawful driver.

OTOH, there was an incident a number of years ago on a city street in Chicago where a cyclist pulled up along the right side of a large truck that was waiting for the light to change in order to make a right turn, as was the cyclist.  As the light changed, the truck driver proceeded to make a right turn, running over and killing the cyclist on his "blind" right side.  There was major outrage about this event among those in the "activist" cycling "community," some of whom proclaimed that trucks should all be equipped with those "side shields" which might have prevented the catastrophe.  However, this was wrong thinking.  Those so-called "side shields" often seen on the trailers of over-the-road tractor/trailer rigs are there for aerodynamic purposes only, not for the prevention of pedestrian accidents.  The cyclist should have known better than to pull along side of a truck like that where he/she was in his blind spot.

 
It works both ways.  Yes, there are idiotic and offensive drivers out there and I encounter them quite often.  But I also see cyclists "bending' the law (in the sense of rules of the road) in a way that frequently contributes to the road rage against bikes that we often encounter.  Be wise.

[rlti...@gmail.com]

I’ve been riding “seriously” since I was 18 and I’m turning 56 this month. It’s surprising how few issues I can come up with when thinking back.  99% of the people here do a pretty good job sharing the road with cyclists and we have a decent bike infrastructure. People are used to bikes on the road. Typically people are too accommodating and want to give me the right of way when it isn’t mine. 

I got hit once. I was descending a decently steep road and there was a driveway with a car coming out of a Burger King parking lot. I watched the driver look left up the hill, then right, then left again and as soon as I neared the driveway he pulled out. So I hit the front fender doing about 30 mph and flew over the hood. I was surprisingly in ok shape. Nothing broken but I had some bruising, some road rash and twisted ankles due to my Time pedals not releasing. 

I was climbing one of the steeper roads here and some kids drove by and one hocked a loogie at me. It hit me square in the back and I wasn’t wearing a shirt at the time. They are likely still high-fiving each other over that one.

I was commuting to work on what is basically a highway. It is the old I15 that runs next to Miramar air base. There is an exit onto a highway from that road and I almost got nailed by a driver that tried to sneak over at the last minute. I caught him in my rear view mirror after I heard tires skidding. My instinct would have been to move to the side but I saw him moving that way so I swerved to the traffic side and avoided being hit.

Another rear view mirror save. I caught a motor home approaching and saw in my mirror that his steps were still down and coming right at me. I moved over and avoided getting clipped by them and pointed out to the driver they were not retracted.

I can’t recall any deliberately aggressive assaults. I do have a lot of stupid moves done around me but I know what to look for and am always able to predict what drivers will do. I confront a lot of people but it’s almost never worthwhile. Cell phone usage/distracted driving is becoming more of an issue and that is something I watch out for. Almost nobody stops for stop signs anymore either and red light are not always obeyed these days.

Robert Tilley

San Diego, CA

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 9, 2022, at 9:41 AM, Eric Marth <eric...@gmail.com> wrote:

First of all I'd like to note that starting this thread might not be a great idea. But perhaps it would be a way for us to share some experiences, vent or commiserate. 

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[Berkeleyan]

RBW content - I owe my 1998 Rivendell LongLow Custom to getting doored in west Berkeley. I was coming back from (high carbohydrate) lunch at Jack-in-da-Box and was pedaling my lugged steel Centurion past parked cars when a door swung open and caught me in the ribs - immediate full stop. A painful injury, entirely not my fault. Long story short, the car driver's insurance company agreed to a cash settlement, and I poured it it into a custom RBW frame (and full set of components). The LongLow is still in the stable.

[Pam Bikes]

I haven't read all the posts except the first one but couple of things...  I teach Cycling Savvy (https://cyclingsavvy.org/event/3-part-workshop-charlotte-nc-oct-21-23/2022-10-21/) which teaches communication and cooperation.  I never use the one finger salute, I always use the friendly wave and smile tactic.  (I don't give anyone the power to ruin my ride.)  But before that I communicate in four redundant ways.  1) Lane selection - using the lane for my intended direction, i.e. the left lane if I'm making a L.  2) Lane positioning - positioning myself for my direction of travel, i.e. in the left side of the lane if I'm turning right.  3) Shoulder check - this helps build empathy by humanizing yourself.  You have a life which is valuable.  And this acknowledges the motorists presence.  4) Signaling - your next move.  In the original post, I'd have signaled either R or L.  If I'm not making a turn and I do not want to release the lane or can't release the lane, I'd hold up my pointer finger indicating I need a second.  Communicating helps defuse a possibly tense situation.  While this is not fool proof, it generally works most of the time.  I ride daily.  I ride wherever I need to go.  And mostly I have 95% good experiences.  The bad ones I chalk up to people who are frustrated being trapped in a car.  And they'd be having a bad day and honking at me even if I were driving a car.  Aggression is not b/c you are on a bike.  It may be b/c they are in a car.  Of course, I get a few honks.  But I've never had anything thrown at me.  Please come to Charlotte, NC and ride w/me and you'll see.  I take people riding all the time and they say they've never had such a good experience.  And when I rode the last 5 days across NC (365 miles), it was basically the same.  And my goal then was to get full lane change passes and I think I got about 90%.   https://ridewithgps.com/collections/58792

I hope this doesn't come across the wrong way.  We have all experienced aggression.  It is real.  I hope this helps.

[Steven Sweedler]

I completely agree about communication, I point  to where I am going and wave a lot, I do try to keep my finger salute in my head only, it rarely improves anything. Steve

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Steven Sweedler
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[Doug H.]

Robert,

This is a serious topic but the loogie story made my chuckle. I have to say that was a good shot by the kid!! Loogie launching must be practiced so that wasn't his first shot.

I've had a few close calls but thankfully no hits as of yet. One thing I try to avoid is riding directly into a sunset as it blinds me and drivers as well. A local lady was killed a few years ago (RIP Karen Tinsely) and a contributing factor was the sun in the driver's eyes. In that case I don't think there was any bad intention although still inexcusable. If I'm on a road heading towards a sunset I try to find an alternate route. Be safe fellow cyclists!

Doug

Athens, Ga

[Joel S]

I think the current worst I have had is when a car or truck buzzes too close for comfort.  I am not always looking in my rear glasses mounted mirror.  Instinct sometimes move me too far right and that has sometimes been a problem,  I only take the lane when on a small narrow lane or when I need to turn left.  This year I have been buzzed too many times and I always leave plenty of room for cars and trucks, trucks have been the worst offenders this year.  A few years ago I was forced off of the road and luckily it was a dirt shoulder and I did hit it hard and the car just sped off.  

This year the worst is trying to get on a road from a shopping center driveway without lights.  Cars with nowhere to go seen to be oblivious to give a bike the right of way, but some drivers are overly courteous, jut make sure the guy coming the other way is also.  

[Bob Ehrenbeck]

Pam,

Your summary of the things you do on the road, regarding placement and communication, is excellent! I try to do all those things. I like that humanizing look-back!

Regarding communication/signaling: if I'm in the lane and I need to be there to avoid a close pass when there's an oncoming car in the opposite lane, I'll stick my left arm out and at an angle, to emphasize the "hold on just a sec" to the driver behind me. When it's all clear, I'll then give them a "come on through" wave when I move over, followed by a "thank you" wave. All this just emphasizes that we aren't in the lane to be jerks, we just want to be safe.

I don't have too many bad encounters with motorists -- while I live in a dense area, there are many less busy adjacent streets, paths, and cut-throughs to use to get around without needing to go on busy roads. (And thankfully there are no "stroads" in my area.) My bad encounters usually happen when I'm too far to the side of the road and I get a close pass. When I catch up to (some of) them, I tell them it's a dangerous move and explain that New Jersey has a new four-foot passing law. The drivers I speak to are receptive to the message -- they're just oblivious that being passed closely is a totally different experience when one doesn't have two tons of steel surrounding them.

Bob E

Cranford, NJ

[J J]

Thanks for starting this thread, Eric. 

As far as biking vs. motorists go, I’ve weirdly come to feel nostalgic about the first few months of pandemic lockdowns, which showed how pleasant urban biking life could be with cities devoid of motor traffic. It was calm and easy; bikers and pedestrians basically owned the streets. It’s horrible that it took an extraordinary global pandemic to show us how cities can be if they are not dominated by car traffic, but I’m afraid we haven’t absorbed the lessons.  

As life has inched back to “normalcy”, riding on DC streets feels more treacherous than ever. Traffic and aggressive drivers have returned with a vengeance. Just yesterday I was talking to folks in my little riding group about how the 10 mins of negotiating unruly street traffic to reach any number of great trails in DC is the most exhausting part of an all-day ride. 

I try to communicate with drivers as much as possible, making eye contact, signaling, pointing, gesticulating, thanking them verbally and with a nod and a wave. Most want to be good road citizens. 

But there are plenty of bad apples who are either just obnoxious, distracted, in too much of a hurry, oblivious, or intoxicated. It’s common around these parts to smell weed wafting out of cars.

A couple of weeks ago I was riding solo toward Rock Creek Park, going down a big hill on a road with a bike lane that ends abruptly. I claimed the middle of the road lane, and I saw a car in the mirror approaching way too fast. The driver hit the horn, startled the bejesus out of me, and a passenger stuck her head out of the window shouting, “Get out of our way!! Move your ass to the sidewalk!” 

At the next block we stopped at a red light and the car pulled beside me. The passengers were mouthing off at me. I said matter of factly, “FYI DC law allows bikes to use full lanes. And in this part of DC it is illegal for adults to ride on sidewalks.” Perhaps it was stupid of me to even engage.

The woman said, “Of course you can ride the sidewalk, you are not in a motor vehicle!! You’re blocking traffic, mother fxxker!”

The light turned green, I said “Whatever”, pedaled on my way, and veered off the main road. The car turned around and followed me, drove within two feet of my side, and another passenger made like he was going to punch me while shouting obscenities at me. The charming woman in the back seat spit at me. At this point adrenaline took over and I turned again onto a side street and made it up a steep incline faster than I ever would have thought possible. I had to get away. It felt like lunacy. 

Not long before that I was riding on a painted bike lane (physical barriers are not common in DC) and a woman drove into my lane, clipping me. My left brake lever scraped the length of her car. Somehow I maintained control of the bike with my right hand and pounded on the car with my left as I shouted at her. It happened so quickly, I was only reacting, not thinking. I managed to stop without crashing, I felt my heart pounding out of my chest, then the driver stopped her car, got out, and began yelling at me to watch where I’m going. She threatened to call the police because her car got scratched. It was absurd. I’m grateful that neither I nor my riding companion was hurt. 

So 99 percent of the time sharing the streets with motorists is fine. It’s the 1 percent that is worrying. My anecdotal sense that aggressive and distracted driving has increased is supported by data that shows that motor vehicles accidents that cause injuries and fatalities have been increasing since spring 2020, despite fewer overall miles driven, reversing years of decline. There’s a lot of speculation as to why the trend has shifted.  

I’m trying to be even more defensive and communicative as I ride. Some things are out of our control though. 

On Monday, October 10, 2022 at 10:04:59 AM UTC-4 Joel S wrote:

[Eric Marth]

Thanks to everyone for sharing their scrapes, scares and takes. 

Pam, thanks for these great points about communicating, signaling and looking at drivers. I use my bikes for everything I can, as well, though I don't cover nearly as much ground as you! I was making a routine trip to the co-op grocery in my neighborhood this spring, signaled with my left hand to indicate a left turn and the young driver behind me thought I was suggesting they pass me. So they passed me as I was about to make my turn. 

Joe, sometimes it pains me to do it but I completely agree that yielding or letting go when interacting with a vehicle is the safest course forward. 

Robert, the motorhome stairs in the landing positing! Holy cow! 

George, yes, awareness of blind spots, limits of vehicles and limits of what drivers can see are really important. I do wish that more North American cities were built in a way that allowed cyclists to ride completely separated from traffic and reach their destinations. A cyclist sharing a lane with a big dump truck seems like a recipe for disaster. Then again, consumer pick-ups are getting larger and more popular every year. 

On Monday, October 10, 2022 at 10:04:59 AM UTC-4 Joel S wrote:

[Keith P.]

My son kind of has the worst ride to middle school possible here in Los Angeles.

On a main commute artery, over a Freeway, up one steep hill, down the other side, starting and stopping shoulder lanes... all during rush hour traffic with no alternate routes.

It's fun, but less than ideal, and far from idyllic.

We are honked at in the street every so often, and wave back as though they are saying hello. These are kids folks!

People's impatience and entitlement are vast and unfortunate, but what are you going to do? Try and be safe and respectful while sharing the road I guess.

I've never been hit or had a serious altercation with a car, but I haven't ridden a proper road bike on proper "road bike" roads in decades because of the horror stories.

I used to go on long rides around the city at night when traffic would die down to a fraction of its daytime density.
That was really fun and much less stressful in spite of the visibility wrinkle of it being dark out. 

Glad most of these stories have ended "safely."

k.

[Ken Yokanovich]

Preface: I don't condone my choice of action

Years ago, I had a group of teens hit me with a full gallon-sized (or metric equivalent) bottle of Gatorade thrown out the car window as they swerved uncomfortably close to me. It was early morning and I presumed they were on their way to school.

I sped up, cut through the neighborhood, and caught up to them idling at a busy intersection. I surprised them with a kick to the door, reached through the passenger window, turned off the ignition, removed the keys, and threw the keys as hard as I could into the nearby thick grass.  I calmly said "explain that one to dad" as I rode off leaving them stranded in traffic.

Ken - who now just "smiles and waves"

[JRStern11]

Ken, you just reminded me of many years ago on a quiet countryside 2 lane road, I was riding to the right and I assume it was kids that threw a full big cup of ice filled liquid in what kind of car I have no recollection. Yea they got me and I really wanted to get them but was too stunned.  People can just be stupid thinking they are funny.  

Sent from Proton Mail for iOS

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[Wesley]

I've been riding for many years in many places, and my worst experience (one of very few dangerous experiences) was this past summer. Near my house is a four-lane crossing over a freeway where the freeway is dug into a narrow channel, so it's not a long crossing and does not require a climb. Traffic is mild. Starting from a stoplight, I made a left turn onto the crossing, then a right turn off of it. Once off the crossing, I was in a bike lane. I guess someone was behind me, because a van pulled up on my left, matched my speed, and the driver began yelling something (I couldn't make out a single word, and wasn't trying to.) I didn't look in their direction or say anything or slow down or acknowledge their presence in any way. I guess they found that upsetting because they swerved over to hit me, which I avoided by braking. They were now stopped in the bike lane. As I moved to go around on their left, they accelerated and swerved into the road and stopped. After repeating that cycle once more, we had moved forward enough that I could turn onto my street and ride away. The entire time, I never said anything nor looked their way, nor did I make any gestures. I have no idea what they said nor why were so angry (the greatest possible distance they might have been behind me is 50 meters). I just didn't want to get murdered by a road racer in my own neighborhood.

-Wes

On Sunday, October 9, 2022 at 9:41:46 AM UTC-7 eric...@gmail.com wrote:

[Joe Bernard]

"So 99 percent of the time sharing the streets with motorists is fine. It’s the 1 percent that is worrying. My anecdotal sense that aggressive and distracted driving has increased is supported by data that shows that motor vehicles accidents that cause injuries and fatalities have been increasing since spring 2020, despite fewer overall miles driven, reversing years of decline. There’s a lot of speculation as to why the trend has shifted."

Yeah it's a problem. There's a really nasty polarization infecting this country right now and cyclists are viewed as being on a certain side of it. I know why I'm seeing more aggression out there and it's not fun. 

On Monday, October 10, 2022 at 10:11:51 AM UTC-7 J J wrote:

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Putting on the Admin Cap...

In the past I've pulled threads like this as they veered quickly and strongly off topic and tended to end up in Polemic-ville. 

I'd like to remind everyone, particularly newer members, of the narrower focus of this group. It's by design and has generally served us well for many years. General topics outside of Rivendell Bicycle Works are best covered in more general groups such as iBob, etc. 

Whether driver obliviousness or intentional maliciousness, we are unlikely to solve it here. 

I thank those who have shared stories and maintained a moderated tone so far, and I'll ask that any other member consider before posting whether adding to this thread is helpful. 

Thank you. 

Jim / Admin

On Sunday, October 9, 2022 at 9:41:46 AM UTC-7 eric...@gmail.com wrote:

[Luke Hendrickson]

I aim to appear unskilled (wearing plain clothes only) and less attractive as a target (no flashing lights). I also take full lanes and aim to be visible as much as I can. I would rather annoy drivers and know that they see me than try to be as small as I can and hug the curb and be doored. Thankfully I’m also tall and ride a large bike so I happen to ride higher than many SUVs.

Regardless, I still get buzzed and cut off. I sometimes feel inclined to let the drivers know that driving in that manner is less than ideal. I aim to calmly tell them that they scared me a lot and that what they did could have injured me. It’s usually well-received. Other times I smile and throw a shaka. Again, I believe looming large on the rode helps me.

On Monday, October 10, 2022 at 10:11:51 AM UTC-7 J J wrote:

[Trevor Bradshaw]

Longtime lurker and Riv owner here. Last summer while riding my Riv Road I was run over by a truck rolling through a stop sign. I went down and the truck rolled over my bike and right shoulder. It's spooky being under a moving vehicle like that. I was pretty mangled, cuts, fractures, dislocated shoulder, etc. 

Lessons learned? Traffic is alway more dangerous coming from where you can't see. (i.e. intersections) Also, drivers should never roll through a stop sign and keep an eye out for us cyclists. That young kid hopefully will never make that mistake again. I've been clipped a few times before but this was the worst. 

Also: If anyone is looking for a Riv Road 58cm (straight) but needing a fork, let me know! It looks good on the mantle but should be ridden again. 

Trevor

Looking both ways in Nashville

[Jared Wilson]

I wrote this up a day or two ago and hesitated to post but after talking with Ariel I've decided to share, apologies to Jim if it doesn't meet group guidelines.

Last New Years Eve, 2021, my wife and I set out for one last ride of the year, venturing through wine country just outside of San Luis Obispo city limits. 

Suffice to say we were celebrating our own version "Bicycle Day", Ariel piloting her beloved Platypus and me aboard my then Cheviot. Things were just starting to get interesting as I was trailing Ariel when a black Chevrolet Tahoe came flying up the road behind us and made absolutely zero effort to acknowledge our existence, coming within a foot of my beloved ahead. He must have been cognizant of his lack of regard for us because he looked in his rear view mirror only to be met with my one finger salute. This enraged the man, who slammed on his brakes in the middle of the lane in anticipation of our arrival. Harassment ensued, threats were made towards me, and I could only smile and agree with the 50-something year old man who claimed "I'm going to kick your a**", "I'm sure you will buddy" I responded. I think that was enough to bolster his ego so he threw his SUV into gear and peeled out, never to be seen again. I didn't catch is plate number but I made note of his license plate frame. I kept an eye out for him around our small town for a while before coming to the conclusion that he doesn't deserve to continue to live rent free in my mind, so I'd finally let go of the situation until seeing this thread arise.

Moral of the story, you can't change someones mind who doesn't want to change it themself, it's better to not engage, smile, and continue on your way.

Jared in SLO, CA

[Paul Clifton]

In terms of responding to bad driving, I've had the best luck with Luke's approach, but I only use it seldomly. One time a car sped around me when there was a lot of oncoming traffic and didn't give me nearly enough space, and I could tell the driver felt a little panicked, and if I hadn't gotten out of the way, they would've had to choose to hit me, or get hit head on themselves (or maybe everyone could've just stopped for a second to sort it out??).

When I got up to them at the traffic signal I pulled up, and motioned for them to roll the window down. And they did, and started apologizing, and I just told them that that was really scary and that it could've caused me to have a really bad wreck and that I hoped they'd be more patient next time.

If I had flipped them off, I'm sure any further interaction would've gone much differently. They seemed like they were already expecting me to yell at them, but were willing to accept it I guess. They had kids in the car too. It could've been really traumatizing. I definitely have no reason to forgive their reckless driving, but I try to remember that not all mistakes are malicious. Trevor, your story makes me feel extra lucky today, and I hope your recovery is going alright.

I think most of us know when to pick a fight and when not to in most situations. It's just hard to stay cool when some jerk could've killed me and I can't just leave the room.

Paul

[Mojo]

I was a teenager during the 1970s bike boom and loved riding my 10 speed everywhere. I rode for fun, fitness, socializing, commuting, errands, and eventually competition. I came to believe the bicycle could help transform our culture, bringing a more humane pace to our lives. I no longer believe that. Bicycles alone will not change the trajectory of this society.

I am now becoming an old man and can see the last of my days not so far ahead. Time is more precious. I no longer ride on the road very often and rarely for pleasure because it just isn't a pleasure. Cell phones and other forms of distracted driving are a huge threat today. Road rage and intentional acts of violence seem to be increasing. I do not want to spend valuable time being frightened or outraged or bullied.  

I am lucky to live where there are many high-quality, off-road options and that is where I now mostly ride.

When I do ride, I have used some of Pam Bikes' techniques. I always ride with a mirror and try to stay fully alert of my surroundings. I have reflective clothing and reflectors on my frame, racks, rims, crankarms, helmet. I use lights except in full daylight. I always acknowledge courteous driving with a nod or wave and a smile. I make eye contact all the time. I smile at them a lot and am no longer surprised at how often they smile back. I do not engage with angry drivers. I never raise my hands from the handlebars in anger, though I may engage my brake lever with one strong middle finger.  I carry pepper spray and a knife all the time.

This is not the world I imagined as a new-riding teenager. But it is the world we have helped build and have inherited. 

Joe Ramey in Grand Junction

[David Hallerman]

I entirely agree. I mostly successfully avoid giving those unskilled auto drivers the finger. However, as I wave in a friendly way, but with my heart burning, I think how I’m still giving the rotten person my middle finger, just camouflaged by its four friends.

Dave, who does not trust any driver even in this relatively calm section of exurbia

On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 1:40 AM Pam Bikes <pamlike...@gmail.com> wrote:

I never use the one finger salute, I always use the friendly wave and smile tactic.  (I don't give anyone the power to ruin my ride.) … [lots of good stuff]

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[Luke Hendrickson]

Paul – I’m about 50/50 with how I handle things if I’m being honest! What I wrote above is my hoped for attitude once out on the road. 

[rlti...@gmail.com]

I gotta admit that it was an impressive shot!

Sunrise/sunset are definitely dangerous times to be on the road. I used to ride with a very experienced cyclist here and he used to organize Bike Friday rides since he owned a few. He always wanted to do the Pacific Coast tour and finally got a chance once he retired. He was hit and killed by a driver in Oregon while on that tour.  The driver claimed that the sun was in his eyes and he basically didn’t see the bicyclist. Common sense would be to pull over if you can’t see but that never happens.

Robert Tilley

San Diego, CA 

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 10, 2022, at 5:05 AM, Doug H. <dhansf...@gmail.com> wrote:

Robert,

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/25d85775-9dbf-408a-b804-3a8ff558a05an%40googlegroups.com.

[Jim Whorton]

Pam, I think you have got this figured out. 

I admit I have let a few rides be ruined by obnoxious drivers.  A close scrape is scary, and then it makes me angry, and then I am bothered by this feeling that I need to restore balance to the universe by waving a middle finger.  That's the feeling I want to let go of.  I don't need to think about fixing the universe all the time . . . when I'm riding my bike, my purpose is to enjoy life and get somewhere. 

But I also am sure that your example, the way you handle yourself on the bike, is educational for drivers and probably inspires some of them to take the bike instead of the car next time.  So maybe you are fixing the universe somewhat.

Jim in Rochester