Pick your brains about spoke count?

[Ben Mihovk]

Hey all!
Hypothetically...does an Atlas wheel set with 32 spokes for a 6'3" 210 pound dude make sense if he's on an unloaded Sam and using it as an all-road bike? No singletrack/mountain biking, jumping, etc... Tires would be AT LEAST 40mm, possibly up to 44mm. 

OR...is it 36h or bust if you're a big fellow? 

Thanks,

Ben in Omaha

[Karl Wilcox]

I am 6'6" and 210-- 32 spoke 700c wheels have always been fine for me.  Keep an eye on spoke tension with a new wheel, but otherwise, I have not been able to discern any difference between 36 and 32 wheels.  

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[Mike Godwin]

4 additional 700c wheel-size 14-15-14 g spokes will add about 30 grams per wheel, 6.2 - 6.7 g/spoke for Sapim and DT, respectively. Nips are a few grams each.  Its not that critical. Build 36 spoke wheels and be 11 percent happier.

Mike SLO CA

[lconley]

I would always go with the 36. One reason is that the spokes at the rim joint cross, so the spoke tension is working to close the rim joint. This was the reason to go to 44 instead of 40 or 48 many, many years ago, but I think that 44 is an obsolete spoke count at this point. Rims are so much better now that it probably does not matter any more. At 280, I have lots of bikes with 40 and 48 spoke rims. But I don't break spokes on my 32 hole rims either.

Laing

Delray Beach FL

[George Schick]

Lately I've noticed that many suppliers aren't offering any 36 hole rims or hubs, as though they're going by the wayside.  A quick check into the Phil Wood website shows they're only offering 36 hole in a few models.  And another check into a major virtual bike shop with "36 hole" as a sort criteria showed only 19 rims available in that count among the nearly 60 available in 32 hole.  BTW, when checking both sites I noticed "sold out" for almost everything - scary, I think.

[Eric Norris]

In my experience, the quality of the rim and spokes and the skill of the wheelbuilder matter much more than the spoke count. A well-made 32-spoke wheel will outlive a cheap 36-spoke wheel any day. 

I’ve ended up with several bikes with 36-spoke wheels, but more by chance than design. I ride on some “classic” hubs that were made at a time when 36 was the standard. 

--Eric N

On Oct 25, 2021, at 11:05 AM, George Schick <Bhi...@gmail.com> wrote:

Lately I've noticed that many suppliers aren't offering any 36 hole rims or hubs, as though they're going by the wayside.  A quick check into the Phil Wood website shows they're only offering 36 hole in a few models.  And another check into a major virtual bike shop with "36 hole" as a sort criteria showed only 19 rims available in that count among the nearly 60 available in 32 hole.  BTW, when checking both sites I noticed "sold out" for almost everything - scary, I think.

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[Ben Mihovk]

Thanks to everyone for the replies. To give more context, the wheels in question are the standard Velocity built wheel set (Atlas rims, velocity hubs) that used to be a stock wheel option. I don't know if that makes any kind of difference. They're old (about 8 years) and lightly used...and they're connected to a bike I'm looking at. I don't think it's a deal breaker that they're 32, but I do like the idea of 36 better. 

Ben 

Omaha

[Garth]

Ben, if you call Velocity in Michigan and speak to a real live person, likely the same guy I spoke to. You'll find you can get 36 holes or mix and match f/r. You can also request double butted spokes for $30/pr extra.

[Karl Wilcox]

Improved spokes and rims have made 36 holes or higher wheels obsolete even for heavier riders (max 200+ pounds or so).  At 210 and 2 meters tall, I even use 32 wheels for touring with absolutely no problems.  I have been building my own wheels for 45 years, and I can see no reason to revert back to 36 holes unless one has a set of hubs and rims in 36 that you just want to use.  

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[Bill Lindsay]

Adding onto Eric's correct comments.  I'd say the rider technique has a lot to do with the reliability of wheels also.  Some riders just seem to know how to ride light.  Others simply don't.  There are light weight riders who destroy wheels because they don't know how to ride, or they do know and just choose to ride in a way that is harder on wheels.  There are clydesdales who do just fine with low spoke count wheels because they know what they are doing.  I think of it in the same way you observe horse riders.  Some people just seem to glide along, and others ride a horse like a bag of meal.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Ron Frazelle]

Chiming in.

As a Clydesdale that "rides light" and chooses to buy quality wheels when I don't have them built for me, I have never had in issue with 32 spokes, ever...even loaded with bike packing gear. 

In agreement with Eric and Bill.

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[Robert Dowtin]

Thought I’d chime in as well. Most of my wheel sets have been built by me the last few years. Always 32h I’m 6,1 and spent most of the last 5 years between 215 and 245. I have only broken one spoke in those 5 years and it was one of those fat aluminum Industry 9 spokes on a mountain bike, not built by me. Not saying it has anything to do with build quality either. Sapim double butted 2.0/1.8 32h, just love ‘em.

Rob in NW Ar 

[iamkeith]

Eric and Bill said it all, but I'll add one more thing:  6'-3" and 210 lbs isn't really that big, and is certainly not out of shape.  Someone of your fitness level should have zero problem supporting some weight on the bottom bracket and effecting fore/aft weight shifts and lofting wheels when necessary.  "Riding light."

[Ben Mihovk]

Thanks for all your feedback, folks! It turns out that the wheels in question on the bike are, in fact, 36h after all! But, good to know that I could probably get away with 32h if needed.

Thanks again!

Ben

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[Philip Williamson]

My first thought was, “32h is fine, don’t worry about it,” but Bill reminds me that not everyone rides the same, and you should consider your own style. 

Philip

Sonoma County, Calif.

[Ben Mihovk]

Yeah, Bill's comments got me thinking yesterday, too. I consciously noted how I was riding home from work. I pushed myself to take weight off the saddle throughout the ride...I'm generally good about putting weight on my feet over bumpy spots, but I could probably do a better job. 

The bike in question does, though, have 36h wheels after all. Auction ends today...fingers crossed!

Ben in Omaha 

[Victor Hanson]

Ben, 

Simplistically, no.  There's an art to wheelbuilding don't forget that.   But at your size, think more about rim section, ie: wider rims equal stronger wheels and better tire distribution.  I am not familiar with the Atlas wheelset, but pay attention to rim width.  

Either 32 3x or 36 3x should build good wheels.  Don't cheap out on spokes DT or Wheelsmith db ('cuz they tension up better).   Brass nips always. 

VTW

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VIctor R. Hanson

Gen Mgr

Schmier Industrial Properties

o:  510-652-0800

c:  510-207-8593

[Ben Mihovk]

Awesome! I appreciate that feedback, Victor! 

Ben

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[Marc Irwin]

I'm 210 on a good day (if I lie).  I had Velocity build wheels for each of my Riv's and use 32 spokes on my Hillborne with 35mm tires while my Hunq  has 36 front and 40 rear with 45mm because it's used for loaded touring.

Marc

[Mr. Ray]

Wheel building is an art and finding a competent wheel builder is just as important as selecting parts.  Rims come in 2 flavors; welded and pinned.  The former is stronger.  32 vs 36 spokes is a difference of grams and shouldn't be an issue unless you are racing.  Using brass nipples vs alloy is sensible practice unless you are racing.  Hub flange diameter contributes to a wheels strength; the larger the flange the shorter the spoke.  For example, a Rohloff hub has a much larger flange diameter than a regular hub.  Therefore a 32 spoke wheel for this hub is far stronger than a standard 36 spoke wheel using identical parts.  At 210 pounds, I would err on the safe and slightly heavier side by using 36 double butted spokes (from reputable brands like DT Swiss, Wheelsmith or Sapim and brass nipples with loctite) and an alloy rim which is welded vs pinned.  If you only have pinned rims then 36 spoke in that configuration is also fine.  In ALL cases, the correct wheel builder can build wheels that don't need to be trued under normal riding.  My disc wheels were built over a decade ago and have over 30,000 miles of loaded RTW touring and are still true to this day.

On Monday, October 25, 2021 at 8:39:44 AM UTC-4 bjmi...@gmail.com wrote: