Question about wide tire fit on 700c rims

[The Snag]

So I picked up one of Will's huge Rosco mixtes from the list and hooked it up with some Velocity Cliffhanger rims, that bike screams for some big rubber so I went with the WTB trail boss 29x2.4 because I was looking for something with a lot of traction, but the things were a major PITA to get on the rims. They've been fine, but yesterday I pedaled through some stuff that I shouldn't have and got a flat. I had all the things to patch the tube so, with some effort, I got the tire off the rim and fixed it but, despite trying to the point of breaking a plastic tire lever, couldn't manage to get the tire back on. 

My question is: how do I know if a 29" tire will comfortably fit a 700c rim? The MTB companies market 29" tires but I know people run them on 700c cliffhangers, does it have to do with tubeless compatibility? Does that make them tighter? I'm so confused. 

I've never had this much trouble with a tire before. Anyone else struggled with the same thing, or have some knowledge on the subject, or know a good, wide tire with mud traction that will for sure work??

[PaulS]

Cliffhanger is tube less compatible so the tolerance is probably a bit tighter. However, just to make sure we got the baseline covered:

What tire lever were you using? I’ve broken some cheapo levers. I always use Pedros or Park.

When you took the tire off, you did move the bead to the center channel of the rim bed? Meaning, you broke the bead ALL the way around the rim first, then made sure the bead was in the center groove before sticking the tire lever in there. Then started at the valve stem and worked your way around (for mounting the tire, you of course start at the opposite the stem).

Pushing the valve stem up may give you a tiny bit more wiggle room.

You may also want to just set it up tubeless. Can’t remember the last time I got a flat on my tubeless bikes. But just the other day, front tire on my tubed Hunq was flat. The may be getting some tubeless rims for that in the future.

[Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY]

I ride a huge Rosco too (2 actually), with cliffhangers set up tubeless (on one). Paul's right, you've got to get the bead centered in the channel and it'll still be hard, but nowhere near impossible, and yeah, tubeless rules. At that size tire and with those rims, you'll be in heaven. You'll get good at using the tire plugs/worms once the tire starts to wear, but it's actually fun to play pitcrew on the side of the road without having to remove the tire.
Good luck
-Kai

[The Snag]

Yeah dunno, tire levers from Kool Stop I think, made by Dremefa in Holland, never been an issue before. 

When I patched the tire I didn't break the bead around the other half of the rim, because I'm stubborn I guess. Centering the bead was probably the only reason I got it on in the first place, but then the only way I could set the bead and get rid of the tire wobble was to pump them thangs up to 80psi till they went "ping!" 

I've been trying to avoid going tubeless mainly because I didn't feel like learning about it, but if all tires nowadays are this much of a struggle then that might have to be the route I go. I've never been bummed about patching a tire before, but this time I had to do some walking and it was a lame end to a ride...

Thanks doodz.

[Garth]

Apparently it's in the design of some tubeless rims. This is what the possibly new rim mentioned by GP is about, working with the mfr. on a rim that is still tubeless but not a pita to install/remove tires.  

Watch this vid, there are some useful tips here, namely the part about making sure to place the first bead into the center channel where the diameter is smallest. Also, rim tape thickness. I now use basic 3/4 " 3M strapping tape, it's the thinnest material you're going to find and it's very very strong.One single layer. It must be strapping tape, the kind with nylon cords in it. 

[Garth]

The vid ..... such is the goo-gle non-edit non-feature here. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvvXrlAUUfU

[PaulS]

I don’t break the other side of the bead. Just the one side.
When at home, I have a bottle of soapy water I spray on the rim to help it seat easier. If out on the road, I’d squirt some water in there.

Also, tubeless tape is almost mandatory. Just get a roll of 3M 8898 from various sources.

https://www.truckerco.com/product-page/tubeless-rim-tape-19mm-x-50m-roll-1

[John Phillips]

    When mounting tires on my Cliffhanger rims, I found using Crankbrothers Speedier Tire levers made the job much easier. Each Speedier lever has an end for removing and an end for mounting a tire. The mounting end stays clipped to the rim and allows you to check that the bead is still centered or rest while the bead you are mounting stretches a bit.

On my Atlas rims, I use Pedro's levers.

John

[John Phillips]

And I run my Cliffhangers rims with tubes.

John

[tuolumne bikes]

I went through this with the first tire changes on the Cliffhangers. The bead really really really has to be in the center channel. I cut some 1/4 inch nylon tubing into 1 1/2 inch lengths and put them in the bag with the spare tube. Stick them between the bead and the rim at various spots around the rim to force the bead into the channel. I don't use them anymore--I gotten the hang of it, but they're still in the tool bag for some frozen frustrating morning.They don't weigh much.

The foolproof way to stop fighting with the tire going back onto the shelf (tight part of rim) is to get the air out and lay the wheel flat, push the tire down around the full cicumference and let gravity keep it in the channel while you work with the tire irons.

Carl

[tuolumne bikes]

Also, since the valve stem takes up the channel, start removal and end installation at the stem, so the bead can be in the channel.

[The Snag]

This group is the best, pulled my tire back out and had it mounted back up in a minute using these tips. As everyone said, having the bead in the channel seems to be the most important thing. The other tip I found really useful from the video was placing the rim on the ground and squeezing the bead in from the top to the bottom, my tire/rim combo is extra tight so I still had to use a tire lever but it got the job done. 

Glad to hear this is a common thing and not just me being a kook....misery loves company!