Yet another round of name that sound

[David Wadstrup]

We've played this game before, and I'm reluctant to begin another round.  But after a fruitless deep dive into a general internet search trying to identify the source of my sound, I thought bringing up my issue here might be of help.  Here goes....

I am the proud owner of a beautiful, creamsicle colored Roadeo that I purchased from a fellow list member here a couple of years ago.  I purchased only the frameset, and built up it up myself.  A short while ago I began to notice a creaking, clicking, cracking-type sound when climbing steep-ish hills.  I loosened and re-tightened just about everything(except the bottom bracket) in an attempt to fix whatever the source of the sound might be.  No luck.  While out on a ride yesterday, I noticed that the sound was apparently getting worse.  I started to fear that there was maybe a crack somewhere in the frame, and made a plan to remove the crank and re-install the BB to eliminate it as a possible source(which I ended up not doing.)  But further into the ride, I happened to discover that the sound only occurs when I am in one of the 3 largest cogs on the cassette.  I made about 7 or 8 trips up and down one of the steeper hills on my route, and was able to confirm that it did not happen in the 4th, or 5th, or any other cog in back -- just the 3 largest.  

For clarification, I am running a Shimano 11sp Ultegra group.  The sound is NOT regular.  Meaning that it doesn't occur in the same place in either my wheel's or crank's rotation. It happens both when seated and while I am out of the saddle. It is more of a cracking, creaking, sound rather than a clicking sound(although it does sound clicky,) if that makes any sense.  It sounds like what I'd imagine a a cracked something-or-other to sound like.

I suppose I'll remove and reinstall the cassette when I get a chance, but figured I reach out to you all to see whether anyone has an inkling of what the trouble might be.  Please let me know your thoughts!

Thanks!

[Brett Callahan]

This is going to sound crazy, but is it the saddle, seatpost, or their interface? That's happened to me more than once, and I've chased sounds that I'm sure are bottom bracket, crank, or cassette related only to discover that in certain gears or at certain effort levels, my saddle is clicking. (In fact, this is happening with a Berthoud on my NFE at the moment. It only clicks when I shift my weight and ride upright at low cadence). 

Just a thought...

Brett in Portland

[Joe Bernard]

You'll have more bend in the chain in those big cogs so you might be getting some noise from a worn chain/cassette. How many miles approximately do you have on those parts?

Joe Bernard

On Wednesday, July 21, 2021 at 5:35:26 AM UTC-7 David Wadstrup wrote:

[Bill Lindsay]

It is my opinion that the riveted-together sub-assemblies in Shimano cassettes can indeed be kind of creaky.  I concur with Joe Bernard that it makes sense that the gears with a greater chain-angle could be more susceptible to this kind of thing.  I imagine that it could be the steel cog creaking against the aluminum carrier to which it is riveted.  I imagine it could also be the interface between the first three cog sub-cluster rubbing against the second three cog sub-cluster.  

If that's what it is, removing and reinstalling the cassette itself may not change anything.  Generally, when I want to isolate the exact location of a sound, I swap things out one at a time.  If I suspect it may be the pedals, ride the bike with different pedals.  If the noise stays the same, it wasn't the pedals, etc.  To test/confirm your sound is located in the rear wheel, swap 11-sp rear wheels with some other bike, if you can.  

I have a couple of bikes that do this also, but like you haven't gotten around to every possible experiment.  When my bike makes a sound I don't like, my obsession with quieting it subsides when I know my bike is 100% mechanically sound.  I'll tolerate a noise that I'm confident is not indicative of some significant problem.  If the riveted together sub-clusters can click, as I suspect they can, it may be fixable with lube, or replacement.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

On Wednesday, July 21, 2021 at 5:35:26 AM UTC-7 David Wadstrup wrote:

[Garth]

Don't the 3 largest cogs exert the most torque on the freehub ? (I'm assuming you mean like a 24,28 etc) So could the sound be the cassette cogs moving against themselves or the freehub body ? 

[M D Smith]

I had a similar creaking/clicking sound recently.  I went so far as replacing my pedals after repacking the bearings (my initial assumption of the culprit,) yet the creak remained.

I then decided to replace the bottom bracket.  I had a spare, after all, but was putting off dealing with it out of laziness, basically.  Well, after digging myself out of that gumption trap I pulled the cranks and went to remove the NDS retainer (this is a Shimano UN-xx with the plastic retainer) and, sure enough, it was a tad bit loose.  Not so much that I could feel any play, but I was able to tighten it about 3/4 to one turn.  I put my spare back in the box, reaffixed the cranks, and nary a creak, crack, or click since.  You specifically mention that you haven’t tightened the bb.  I’ll bet you a beer that’s the source, and I would certainly recommend snugging it up, regardless.

Good luck and let us know what you find.

Cheers- Mike in Somerville, Mass

[Brian Campbell]

I would try the following (assumning you have not already):

1. Swap the bb.

2. Light bit of grease of the tapers when installing the cranks

3. Uninstall and re-install the cassette

4. Check the chain for wear and make sure the master link is proerly secured.

5. Check the front derailer adujustment to make sure the cage it not hitting the chain or possibly somethig else

6. If you re wearing cleated shoes make sure the cleats are tight. Lower gearrs means lower pressure/contact with the pedals.

7.  Make sure the chainring bolts are tight.

8. IS the spacer (if there is one for 11 speed ) the correct width?

Good luck and hope you solve it quickly!

[RichS]

Hello David,

Lots of helpful solutions provided by the group so I'm sure you'll discover the problem soon. In addition to the cassette noise do you notice a creaky sound coming from your stem? Perhaps the sounds are coming from multiple locations? 

Best,

Rich in ATL

[Eric Norris]

Have you tried taking off the cassette and lightly greasing the splines before reassembling? I used to get a similar sound on my Campy freehub-equipped bikes, and this always worked.

--Eric Norris
campyo...@me.com

Insta: @CampyOnlyGuy

YouTube: YouTube.com/CampyOnlyGuy 

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[David Wadstrup]

Hello all,

While I've been reading all of these suggestions as they came through, it's not until now that I'm replying.  Sorry.  I am dumbfounded by all the the great ideas and thought people have put into helping me with my problem -- THANK YOU!  So... just yesterday afternoon I removed and reinstalled the cassette.  I also added a small touch of grease to the splines, as suggested.  I wasn't able to take it out do to a day full of rain, but I hope to tomorrow.  I'll report back on my findings.  

I ended up just making the one "adjustment" so I would be able to determine if it, and not any other adjustments, was the real solution.  I fit doesn't work, I'll move onto the BB.

To answer a few of the questions here.....  all components including chain are in great, lightly used, condition.  This is the bike that sees the least use, even more so after a year of the pandemic, and I would imagine that everything has less than 1,000 miles on it.  I don't keep track of my mileage, and am a really bad estimator of it, so it could be even quite a bit less than this.  Definitely not more.  

I did remove and reinsert the seat post, and loosen and re-tighten the saddle bolt.  This has traditionally been the number one source of mysterious noises for me, but my fiddling had no effect this time.  Which I kind of suspected, given that the noises also occur when I'm out of the saddle.

Regarding the construction of the cassette... the 3 largest cogs are indeed on a "sub cluster assembly," which I found to be quite interesting given that it is only these three that make this noise.  Seems like the rivets or just the construction of this part as a whole, could be the culprit, as suggested.  Maybe my locking was a little on the loose side, and maybe there was some play between this cluster and the rest of the cogs?  I sure hope so!

Anyways, that you all for your time and the thoughtful replies -- they mean a lot!

I have another, unrelated question that I'll ask in a separate post.  See you there, I hope!

[spencer robinson]

I also have been following this discussion and I though I would share another source for a rhythmic creaking issue I had…

I would get a creak, every revolution of the crank. I determined that the creak was present out of the saddle as well as in the saddle. I swapped out the pedals, still creaking

Removed both crank arms, checked bolts, still creaking

Swapped out the BB with a known good BB, Still creaking

Finally during a test ride, I went to the real axel and tightened the quick release…it was snug, but I made it a little tighter and that was it! This was on a Sam frame with vertical drop-outs…musta been just enough play between the axel and the dropout to create a creak each revolution, when the drive side came around the power quadrant of the stroke. I am a big rider and the creaking was worse when I was powering up a hill.