Kickstands and Clems

[Alex K]

Just got my Clem L rolling and I'm pretty smitten.  The handling on curves and general comfort level are fairly astounding.  I do have a Nitto Campee 34F with a hardware-less Wald 157 basket mounted on the front for larger loads (laundry, pizza, etc.). What I'm wondering here is if anyone has any experience with the double kickstand on a heavier/loaded bike.  I didn't love the single Pletscher kickstand that came with the bike and am considering a Pletscher or Velo Orange double stand.  Any thoughts?  Thanks for reading.  

Alex

[Eric Norris]

Alex:

I have double Pletscher stand on my Soma Saga, which I’ve used a few times for lightly loaded touring (full panniers). It will easily hold up a bike weighing 50+ pounds. 

Another plus: You can take out either the front or rear wheel to fix a flat, and the bike stays standing on the tripod that’s left (wheel + two kickstand legs).

--Eric Norris
campyo...@me.com

Insta: @CampyOnlyGuy

YouTube: YouTube.com/CampyOnlyGuy 

On Aug 17, 2020, at 7:48 AM, Alex K <ack...@gmail.com> wrote:

Just got my Clem L rolling and I'm pretty smitten.  The handling on curves and general comfort level are fairly astounding.  I do have a Nitto Campee 34F with a hardware-less Wald 157 basket mounted on the front for larger loads (laundry, pizza, etc.). What I'm wondering here is if anyone has any experience with the double kickstand on a heavier/loaded bike.  I didn't love the single Pletscher kickstand that came with the bike and am considering a Pletscher or Velo Orange double stand.  Any thoughts?  Thanks for reading.  

Alex

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[Edwin W]

I agree with Eric. 

I have a double legged Joe A and it works well. AND it has fallen over a bunch of times, too... Uneven ground, uneven weight.. gotta watch out. Best thing when it is loaded is always a tree!

Good luck,

Edwin

[Mark Roland]

I have the double on my Clem L, which has seen some heavy grocery loads in the back o bike bags--I would guestimate north of 30lbs total. Nothing on the front rack yet (still basketless at the moment.) Recommended.

[Coal Bee Rye Anne]

I'm a fan of the Pletscher double and use it on my regular and currently only rider (a beat up old Schwinn Traveler built as single speed with 700x38(aka '42mm' Continental Speedrides) and Chocomoose bars)) but one word of caution is that it will limit tire width when unengaged and in the 'up position.'  It simply did not fit my 65cm Clem H with 29x2.2 Continental Mountain-something knobbies.  I'm guessing I never tried to mount the double with the Clem's stock Kendas and likely just kept the stock kickstand on until after I had swapped the tires... but when I tried it did contact the edge of the wider knobby tires.

I suppose I could file the kickstand plate bolt hole to allow some side to side offset and this is certainly an option but I just put the double back on the Schwinn and I ultimately went back to the stock single leg kickstand for the Clem which has a more generous outward bend to allow as big a tire as the frame seems to fit without further manipulation.  I'll likely revisit the kickstand plate modification when my Clem eventually comes back home to reclaim its status as my main bike.  It has unfortunately been in storage since fall/winter and the pandemic/family/work/life has pushed bike swaps far to the bottom of the list.

Brian Cole

Lawrence, NJ

[Dave Johnston]

A few years back there reports of the weight of the double kick stand ripping the Kickstand plate off of Rivendell bicycles, so you should actually mount it with the long bolt and chainstay sandwich, not the shorty bolt directly to the plate. I suspect part of the problem may have been people sitting on the bike with the kickstand down, but Riv stopped selling them after reports of frame damage.

-Dave

On Thursday, August 20, 2020 at 10:16:46 AM UTC-4, Alex K wrote:

[Jason Fuller]

Ahhh I wondered why they stopped selling the double leg, thanks for the info!  

[Mark Roland]

I am confused by this. I can't imagine the weight of a kickstand "ripping" a welded kickstand off of any bicycle. Not to mention what is the point of a kickstand plate if it can't handle a kickstand, double or knot. I assume you don't mean weight of the kickstand but maybe fully weighted kickstand.  But even if people were sitting on the bike with the kickstand down--which I hope Riv riders would understand is not generally a good practice--I can't fathom how the plate would be riven from the frame before one of the legs would give way on the kickstand itself. If it did, are we sure it wasn't some perfect freak storm that happened once? Or are these kickstands and the pivots super strong, and acting like a pry bar on the plate? Still hard to picture. Maybe a batch of faulty kickstand plate welds.

By the way, my double clears a 650B x 2.25 Thunder Burt no problem. I guess it's maybe not a Pletcher, it's black and reads "Massload." It came with a used Clem and I transferred it to my new Clem. Works great so far.

[brendonoid]

The old kickstand plates pre-2013ish were A LOT thinner than they are now. 

It didn't shear off because i noticed in time but the double plescher had severely damaged by Sisters MUSA Sam hillborne kickstand plate (bent it badly). It isnt a single time but repeated use with panniers full of stuff that does it. the plate would get twisting forces everytime the kickstand does the 'hop' as it is first deployed, during that hop it supports the weight of the ENTIRE bike then as the rear wheel lands back down it puts all the force perpendicular on the plate, eventually causing a fatigue failure.

Common problem on delivery bikes I have worked with as well, even with totallly over built kickstand mounts, the twisting action during deployment would always eventually kill the kickstand, whether it sheared the mounting bolt or the legs of the kickstand itself.

[Mark Roland]

Yes, I can understand the mounting bolt or the kickstand legs, but not the plate. At least not the one on my Clem. I guess if the plate is not beefy enough it could be an issue. Definitely want to design it so that if anything, the kickstand itself fails before any deformation of the frame is possible. Maybe they should rate kickstands like some racks are rated.

On Tuesday, August 25, 2020 at 12:53:50 AM UTC-4, brendonoid wrote:

... even with totallly over built kickstand mounts, the twisting action during deployment would always eventually kill the kickstand, whether it sheared the mounting bolt or the legs of the kickstand itself.

[brendonoid]

Sorry I wasn't clear. Rivendell had kickstand plate failures with the double leg plescher back when their kickstand plates were much thinner than they are now. I doubt the current plates would have a problem.

I just measured and the old plates are 0.9 to 1mm and the new plates are 3mm. Huge difference. My personal experience is that the old plates twisted quite easily. Even the single legs could bend them if you were carrying a lot (too much) of cargo.

[Mark Roland]

No, you were clear. I was agreeing with you. I imagine back then when this was an issue Riv may not have spec'd plate thickness, thinking the factory would know what gauge to use in that application. Or they just used what was handy and ignored specs....whoops.

[Alex K]

The double is where it’s at, precaution be damned!

[Alex K]

Double Pletscher!!!!  Installed and loving it.  Thanks for the help!!!  Pics to follow...

[Alex K]

Oh boy.  I’ve been using the bolt that came with the single-leg Pletscher included in my buildout with a two-legged Pletscher that I bought from my LBS.  I’m a front-loader, so I feel pretty confident that I’ll be all right, but this thread has got me thinking!