Did Charlie Gallop lose its swoopy top tube?

[maxcr]

From the Blue Lug instagram post, it seems like a proto Charlie with a straight top tube at RivHQ:

Max

PS. Apologies for the bad photo quality but it's hard to grab a post from a video in IG.

[Johnny Alien]

I mean...thats lugged and has a cream headtube. I don't care what the decal says, that can't be a Gallop.

[lconley]

Reminds me of a certain gray and red Rivendell Custom.

Laing

[Johnny Alien]

It really does!

[Johnny Alien]

It would be interesting to have a mixte leaning road frame and a there is a hole in the lineup for a road oriented lugged taiwan made frame but that would be a pretty large 180 from the second set of prototypes they had made.

[Brian Turner]

This has me even more curious about this upcoming Hillibike model that's supposed to be combining the Gus / Susie-Wolbis into one model. I'm wondering if that will also lose the swoopy top tube? It would be a shame, IMO, because it's a really lovely design feature and sets the bikes apart from other similarly styled frames in the lineup.

[Richard Rose]

Agreed! I have a keen interest in the new frame but only if it has the same lovely top tube.:)

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 23, 2023, at 10:35 AM, Brian Turner <brok...@gmail.com> wrote:

This has me even more curious about this upcoming Hillibike model that's supposed to be combining the Gus / Susie-Wolbis into one model. I'm wondering if that will also lose the swoopy top tube? It would be a shame, IMO, because it's a really lovely design feature and sets the bikes apart from other similarly styled frames in the lineup.

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[Joe Bernard]

Right?? 😬

[Jason Fuller]

Interesting!  I wonder if they've pivoted on what the Charlie is going to be.  Going lugged at the head tube, like the new Gus batch, is great but losing the swoop tube would be a real shame (no offence Joe!  Your custom pulls it off better than this Charlie IMO).  I would love to see it just be a roadish version of the new Gus! 

[J Schwartz]

guess so

I think it looks so much better this way personally 

[Johnny Alien]

I prefer a full low mixte or the swoopy hillybike style to a higher angle but Rivendell doesn't do anything I would consider unpleasing to the eye. I will need to see full geometry but it seems like this is just a Platy with a slightly higher top tube. I doubt the tube set is different so weight would be similar (just trying to think of roady considerations) Actually its probably closer to a Cheviot.

[iamkeith]

I like it too.  Interesting evolution.  I like the fact that Riv shares it with us, even if it occasionally means that you get attached to something that won't happen.   I imagine this helps keep the lug manufacturer busy and committed.  Plus, VO sort of stole some thunder when they knocked off the original charlie prototype as the low-kicker.  This is more true to their signature - although, yes, I see Joe's influence.

What I'm really wondering now, is if the Susie/Gus hybrid will go the same way.

[Joe Bernard]

The "Joe's influence" thing is kinda circular. My original inspiration was another Riv Custom that looked a lot like this, then Grant dropped my toptube a bit lower. 

Joe Bernard 

[Johnny Alien]

[Eric Marth]

Johnny's pic is from the Blue Lug instagram, post is here: https://www.instagram.com/p/CwwQz8VSDYO

The above caption is from the same post, FWIW. 

I am curious about the barrel-shaped handlebar bag on Grant's Platypus. Could this be the new handlebar bag he mentioned in a recent post? He mentioned in the Aug 25, 2023 blog-in-lieu-of-email that a new handlebar bag is coming: https://www.rivbike.com/blogs/grant-petersens-blog/email-update-august-25-by-grant-b-c-will-isnt-here 

[Josh C]

I may be in the minority, but I think that Charlie H. Gallop above looks better than the Platypus. Just something about the lines of the frame that I prefer. I think the platypus is a good looking bike just not something that I'd be wild about. 

[Johnny Alien]

I don't hate the new look but I think the swoop looked better. This to me is like a cross between a Cheviot and maybe the Rosco Platy. It has less of a reason to exist than the previous Gallop or the outgoing Roadini. I prefer the look of a traditional mixte vs this slightly higher bar. I also am a bit confused about designing it for sweptbacks and sizing up (both with greater reach) and then pushing it with drop bars/albastache. I don't like sizing up for a road bike. BUT I might be confused as to what the target is now. Odd that Blue Lug says its not coming out but obviously Grant made it sound like it was in his blog.

[Matti]

Since this thread discusses a couple Rivendell frame designs (and their similarities and differences), has anyone made a graphic representation of showing each model in a large side-by-side display?  Like this: 

It might be pretty complicated to do, but it might make a great poster.

[Camden Powell]

A poster of that sort, but with Rivendell models, is such a cool idea. If it doesn't yet exist, I might give it a shot this winter...

[Justin Kennedy]

.................."What I'm really wondering now, is if the Susie/Gus hybrid will go the same way."

The two bikes hanging behind Will in the pic are the lugged Susie/Gus hybrids. The swoop tube stays..... 

[Johnny Alien]

Great eyes! I missed that. I believe they will stay because I don't think it would make sense to change the design that people seem to like BUT its also important to note that the Gallop went through two prototype stages with the swoop tube before changing. So a prototype doesn't matter until Grant says it does. :)

[Max Faingezicht]

yeah amazing, I also missed the hanging frames.

About the Gallop, am I misunderstanding or is the blue lug note saying that this prototype won’t be released, meaning the straight tube prototype won’t be released. Maybe the swoop tube is the final design?

Max

On Sep 6, 2023, at 10:41 AM, Johnny Alien <johnny....@gmail.com> wrote:

Great eyes! I missed that. I believe they will stay because I don't think it would make sense to change the design that people seem to like BUT its also important to note that the Gallop went through two prototype stages with the swoop tube before changing. So a prototype doesn't matter until Grant says it does. :)

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[Justin Kennedy]

yeah i doubt it will go away since these are basically the same bikes as the Gus/Susie with same name, decals etc. Here's another screengrab I got. I had a pic of James building one up somewhere but can't find it at the moment. He'd confirmed last month that these were the lugged suz/gus. 

[Brian Turner]

If those are the Susie/Gus hybrids, then they look just like well... like the same old Susies. I guess that's a good thing. He mentioned a lighter tube spec Susie not passing the MTB ISO tests. Geez, does that mean the weight limit on those is going to be even lighter than before? Do you need to be a 150 lb rider to ride one now? I specifically chose the Gus because of all the discussions around the purported weight limits they placed on the Susie frames.

[Brian Turner]

I do like the addition of the headtube lugs though!

[iamkeith]

On Wednesday, September 6, 2023 at 7:59:07 AM UTC-6 Justin Kennedy wrote:

The two bikes hanging behind Will in the pic are the lugged Susie/Gus hybrids. The swoop tube stays..... 

I was just reading this thread on a full computer screen, instead of my phone, for the first time and noticed the unique colors on those frames.  Hadn't even considered the frame details, but you're right!  Good eye. 

[iamkeith]

On Wednesday, September 6, 2023 at 8:54:47 AM UTC-6 brok...@gmail.com wrote:

.. does that mean the weight limit on those is going to be even lighter than before? Do you need to be a 150 lb rider to ride one now? I specifically chose the Gus because of all the discussions around the purported weight limits they placed on the 

Ok..  what I'm wondering now, is if there will still be a Gus too, after all.  I may have not followed closely enough and don't want to go back and search old info, but I thought the reason that we all assumed the Gus and Susie were merging into a single model was because a blug blurb said something about a "hybrid."   But could that have meant a hybrid in terms of lugs PLUS fillet welds? That's what these samples appear to be. 

Regarding weight limits, it seems that - with a couple of notable exceptions discussed in the group - the original Susie was alot stronger than anticipated.  So I wouldn't fret too much if you're considering getting one.  I'm a big guy myself, and certainly have no qualms riding my own Susie in rough conditions. It doesn't flex nearly as much as other bikes I own.   

I kind of thought the biggest difference between the gus's and susie's relative frame stregths came from their tubing diameters - especially the downtube, but including the headtube.   Maybe they could just thicken guage of  the smaller-diameter tubing if they wanted to make the susie stronger?  Or make thin the gauge of the gus if they wanted to make it lighter?   But the later would require new lugs and we know Grant doesn't like thin, easily-dented tubing.

The oddest thing about not having a Gus Boots Willsen model is going to be explaining to people where Susie W Longbolts and Wolbis Slugstone derived from.

[Mackenzy Albright]

Reminds me of the Jack Taylor Rough Stuff. I think the calipers vs cantilever is more of the shame than losing the swoopy tube. Overall a good lookin bike. 

[iamkeith]

Veering ever-so-slightly off topic, and apologies to those who don't have facebook, but check out the bike in this video:

https://www.facebook.com/reel/1148753762570679?mibextid=9drbnH

[Jonas]

The design decision for the straight top tube unfortunately killed my interest in the frame. What a pity (for me)…

[Dan]

Looks like Riv updated the store page with a full description of the production version of the Gallop.

They cover everything, from the top tube and brake changes, tubing, sizing with various bars and whether you should buy one for your girlfriend ha!

I always enjoy reading the descriptions, and it looks like a fun bike. It's certainly unique! I hope they do well.

https://www.rivbike.com/products/frame-charlie-gallop 

They've also updated the full geometry chart, including now the lugged Roadini and the 2025 Atlantis... *eye emoji*

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1403/7343/files/RBW_Bicycle_Geometries_10162024.pdf?v=1729114939

[iamkeith]

Interesting!  It will be difficult for me to refer to that as the "Charlie" rather than the "Joe."

[Doug H.]

Joe has the original Gallop for sure! It would be interesting to compare the geometry.

Doug

[Joe Bernard]

Interesting! Same head- and seat-tube angles per the Gallop geometry chart Johnny Alien posted on his FS thread. Comparing the 49/53 Gallops to my 54.2 custom*

Lots of other differences though. My frame was designed to be a little stouter than this road bike and uses v-brakes. I'm sure my stays are longer, too. 

Joe Bernard