All Rounder

[Joe Bernard]

Here's the first shots of my new-to-me A/R sans front fender and rack, and before I upright it with Boscos. It's a bummer I can't use those sweet carbon Campy brifters, but alas my arthritic wrists won't put up with drops anymore.

I'm curious about the sizing. The early Reader geometry chart doesn't match it at all, this one has a 52cm ST, 55cm TT, which mimics the 52cm Bstone XO-1. Based on the serial number (what I can see of it) I believe this was built in 1997, did Waterford ever do custom A/Rs for Riv?

Joe Bernard
Novato CA.

[Craig Montgomery]

They were considered semi-custom. Grant had me take a bunch of measurements before we decided on the proper sizing. For example I got a shortened top tube. You could also choose length of head tube extension.

Craig in Tucson

[Steven Sweedler]

Craig, was two sets of mid fork eyelets a special request. Steve

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Steven Sweedler
Plymouth, New Hampshire

[Hugh Smitham]

That's a beauty Joe.

On Monday, September 23, 2019 at 11:32:36 PM UTC-7, Joe Bernard wrote:

[Joe Bernard]

Thanks, Hugh! It's a Holy Grail Riv for sure, especially to find one I can fit. It's quite astonishingly light, I wasn't expecting that. It's going to be fun!

[Paul Richardson]

very handsome indeed.  love that blue.  thanks for sharing.

[Paul Richardson]

or if it's black i love the black.  i'm looking again and i can't really tell!  great color!!!

[RichS]

Joe, this is a rare bird, especially since it has a 52 seat tube. Nice find - congratulations!

You still have a custom in the works? 

Best,

Rich in ATL

[Joe Bernard]

Paul: It's a very dark blue. I need to finish the build and get some pics in sunlight to show it.

Rich S: Yep, still have a custom coming. This one is going to get a Copenhagen Wheel, the custom will be my non-juiced Riv.

[REC (Roberta)]

It's beautiful, Joe.  I cannot wait to see what your finished bike will look like and how you like this new electrified version.  I'm sure it will be MAH-velous!

[Joe Bernard]

Geez, I just noticed I have the QR lever on the wrong side on the front wheel. How many decades have I been working on bikes??

[Benz, Sunnyvale, CA]

On Monday, September 23, 2019 at 11:32:36 PM UTC-7, Joe Bernard wrote:

Here's the first shots of my new-to-me A/R sans front fender and rack, and before I upright it with Boscos. It's a bummer I can't use those sweet carbon Campy brifters, but alas my arthritic wrists won't put up with drops anymore.

I'm curious about the sizing. The early Reader geometry chart doesn't match it at all, this one has a 52cm ST, 55cm TT, which mimics the 52cm Bstone XO-1. Based on the serial number (what I can see of it) I believe this was built in 1997, did Waterford ever do custom A/Rs for Riv?

Are you measuring your ST C-T? I got my geometry data from here. It appears that you get a choice of two TT lengths (see 5th column from left).

[Joe Bernard]

Ooh, I've never seen that chart before. Yes, 52cm C-to-T, and a more accurate TT measurement does show 54.5. Nice sleuthing!

[DHans]

The colors are awesome Joe. The matching colored seat post is classy.

[John H.]

Beautiful build. I've been thinking about running Campy ergo's of that generation on my Sam. What's the jtek/cassette setup you have? How's it shifting?

John in Cambridge

[Joe Bernard]

John: It's Campy 10 to Shimano 9. It shifted fine in the stand, but I didn't actually ride it. The shifters are off the bike now and someone's already offered to buy them, I can sell you the Jtek thingy if you want.

[Christopher Cote]

RR03 has an AllRounder geo chart that lists a 52.5cm (CTT) seat tube and a 55.5cm top tube. I don't know about you, but trying to measure top tubes from the intersection of the seat tube to the intersection of the head tube with a tape measure is pretty difficult for me. I'd put my measurements at +/- 0.5cm at best. Also, it's not often talked about, but hand made frames from even the best builder can be off spec a bit. I'd wager yours is "stock". In any case, that's one of the nicest looking bikes I've seen in a while! Enjoy!

Chris

[Benz, Sunnyvale, CA]

On Tuesday, September 24, 2019 at 9:30:16 AM UTC-7, John H. wrote:

Beautiful build. I've been thinking about running Campy ergo's of that generation on my Sam. What's the jtek/cassette setup you have? How's it shifting?

I don't know about Joe's build, but Campagnolo Ergopowers can usually be paired with Shimano non-Dyna-Sys rear derailleurs to shift cassettes that are N-2 speeds. For example, 10-speed Ergopowers with pretty much any non-Dyna-Sys Shimano rear derailleur will shift Shimano/SRAM 8-speed cassettes. 11-speed Ergopowers will also work with the same derailleurs to shift 9-speed Shimano/SRAM cassettes. No JTEK necessary.

[Philip Williamson]

That’s a beautiful bike.
Really the epitome of early Riv. The ur-Riv. Paleo-Riv? Archaeopto-riv? I forget how that era stacks up against “Golden Age Rivendell.”

“One day all road bikes will for 1.85” tires.”

Philip
Santa Rosa, CA

[Joe Bernard]

Definitely "when Riv was Grant's garage and the thought that it would still be a thing 25 years later was unimaginable" Riv. Lugged steel road bikes with brake clearance so you could run fat tires and go in the dirt, too? In 1994??

[Steve Palincsar]

Funny, that sounds like a description of my 1972 P15 Paramount.  Chrome Nervex lugs, 27 x 1 1/4" tires, centerpull brakes, fender clearance.  Of course, by 1994 brakes like that weren't available anymore.

On 9/24/19 9:52 PM, Joe Bernard wrote:

Definitely "when Riv was Grant's garage and the thought that it would still be a thing 25 years later was unimaginable" Riv. Lugged steel road bikes with brake clearance so you could run fat tires and go in the dirt, too? In 1994??

-- 
Steve Palincsar
Alexandria, Virginia 
USA

[Joe Bernard]

Yes, that was the idea. Grant banged the drum quite loud about the death of the basic steel sport tourer, which was all but gone by the time Bstone bailed and Riv started. It's a minor miracle they survived the Lance-ification of street bicycles in the late-'90s/early-'00s, but here we are.

[Mark Roland]

Ah, but will they survive Joe's late teens 'lectrification? Could become a thing, juiced Rivs!;^)

[jeffrey kane]

I've never understood why the All-Rounder doesn't have a permanent place in the line up. 

On Tuesday, September 24, 2019 at 2:32:36 AM UTC-4, Joe Bernard wrote:

[Mark Roland]

More than half the Riv lineup consists of all-rounders in various configurations, including the Atlantis in 26" for many years. I would say these bikes represent the design evolution of the all-rounder as interpreted by G. Petersen.

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[Addison Wilhite]

Indeed...I stopped by Riv a few years ago and test rode a Hunqapillar.  Loved it but realized I was pretty much riding my Allrounder which I've written about extensively and posted here.  Of all of the early riv models it strikes me as the most quintessentially Rivendell.  Nice find Joe!

http://reno-rambler.blogspot.com/2013/01/rivendell-allrounder-jack-of-all.html

And the most recent configuration:

http://reno-rambler.blogspot.com/2019/07/the-new-rivendell-configuration-and.html

Addison Wilhite, M.A. 

Academy of Arts, Careers and Technology 

“Blazing the Trail to College and Career Success”

Educator: Professional Portfolio

Blogger: Reno Rambler

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[jeffrey kane]

Yep Mark -- perfectly stated and well understood. And yet, we fawn all over the simple Grant appointed 26" wide clearance level top tube model when it shows up. It feels like an ethos thing to me. I realize that the Atlantis got the nod for it ... but clearly, the All Rounder (and even the Hunq) still tug at the heart strings around here.

On Wednesday, September 25, 2019 at 8:34:51 AM UTC-4, Mark Roland wrote:

More than half the Riv lineup consists of all-rounders in various configurations, including the Atlantis in 26" for many years. I would say these bikes represent the design evolution of the all-rounder as interpreted by G. Petersen.

On Wed, Sep 25, 2019, 7:37 AM 'jeffrey kane' via RBW Owners Bunch <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

I've never understood why the All-Rounder doesn't have a permanent place in the line up. 

On Tuesday, September 24, 2019 at 2:32:36 AM UTC-4, Joe Bernard wrote:

Here's the first shots of my new-to-me A/R sans front fender and rack, and before I upright it with Boscos. It's a bummer I can't use those sweet carbon Campy brifters, but alas my arthritic wrists won't put up with drops anymore.

I'm curious about the sizing. The early Reader geometry chart doesn't match it at all, this one has a 52cm ST, 55cm TT, which mimics the 52cm Bstone XO-1. Based on the serial number (what I can see of it) I believe this was built in 1997, did Waterford ever do custom A/Rs for Riv?

Joe Bernard
Novato CA.  

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[Joe Bernard]

Thanks, Addison! I've always admired your A/R, it's gorgeous.

[Abcyclehank]

Joe,
I think this is the bees knees and an amazing score. Funny how bikes come in sets like waves. Unless that is something you and I just have in common with our ocean like brains searching for the perfect ride. Looking forward to see the New Custom coming down the pipe for you. Someday soon I could see myself with only 2 multi-geared Rivs. I will always have my Quickbeam and the Hubbuhubbuh though.

Sincerely,
Ryan Hankinson
West Michigan

[Joe Bernard]

Ryan, I was just thinking that thought yesterday. A few months ago I had sold my MIT Atlantis frame and it was looking - for health reasons - like that Rivbikes chapter was closing. Then stuff happened and I saw that mid-stepover custom on Riv's site and plopped my deposit down..now this!

It's going to be cool after all these years to have two lugged Rivs with "Rivendell" on the downtube (never had that before), and they're kinda bookends on RBW's 25th Anniversary.

[Craig Montgomery]

Craig, was two sets of mid fork eyelets a special request. Steve

      Hey Steve,

             Out walks Grant Peterson, in walks Jan Heine. I had a custom low-trail fork built up by Ed Foster of La Suprema here in Tucson a few years ago. Just recently re-installed the high trail (60mm roughly) fork to remember what it was like. You wanna know something? It's all good. Depends on how you want to set the bike up for what you do 

Craig in Tucson

On Mon, Sep 23, 2019 at 11:54 PM Steven Sweedler <swee...@gmail.com> wrote:

Craig, was two sets of mid fork eyelets a special request. Steve

On Tue, Sep 24, 2019 at 7:50 AM Craig Montgomery <cmontg...@cox.net> wrote:

They were considered semi-custom. Grant had me take a bunch of measurements before we decided on the proper sizing. For example I got a shortened top tube. You could also choose length of head tube extension.

Craig in Tucson

On Monday, September 23, 2019 at 11:32:36 PM UTC-7, Joe Bernard wrote:

Here's the first shots of my new-to-me A/R sans front fender and rack, and before I upright it with Boscos. It's a bummer I can't use those sweet carbon Campy brifters, but alas my arthritic wrists won't put up with drops anymore.

I'm curious about the sizing. The early Reader geometry chart doesn't match it at all, this one has a 52cm ST, 55cm TT, which mimics the 52cm Bstone XO-1. Based on the serial number (what I can see of it) I believe this was built in 1997, did Waterford ever do custom A/Rs for Riv?

Joe Bernard
Novato CA.  

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Steven Sweedler
Plymouth, New Hampshire

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[in Dallas nick]

A beautiful bike indeed!

My all time favorite Riv color.

Enjoy. 

Paul in Dallas 

[Joe Bernard]

Thanks, Paul!

I thought I posted new pics but i guess they didn't go through. Here's it with Boscos..it'll get a bunch of different parts and the e-wheel, but this is good now for just riding and getting to know it. It's fast!

[Joe Bernard]

https://photos.app.goo.gl/66TU9Ue4aGPijKyu9

[Joe Bernard]

Oh, first ride report: Light, maneuverable but tracks straight and true, super fun. It's a Rivendell!

[Greg J]

Congrats!  That's my holy grail Riv also -- and exactly my size!

If you want to see the original catalogs/paraphernalia from those years, and are in Oakland/Berkeley, stop by sometime.  I have a bunch!  

Greg/Oakland

[Jake P]

Craig, Joe,

Confirm what sie tires yall are squeezing on these bikes? I can't seem to fit anything larger than a 2.1

Craig, those look like RTPs?? Suprised to see they fit!

[Joe Bernard]

Jake, I have 2.0 with fenders. I think 2.3 without is about the limit at the fork, maybe a smidge more in the rear. That's a pretty A/R!

[Craig Montgomery]

Yo Jake, I'm running RTP's. What are they, 2.3's? And there's still plenty of room. Using VO 60mm fenders and they are about even with the edges of the RTP's. I was running 650x42 Hetres and Gravel Kings but wanted to try a fatter tire. First experiment was with 47mm Switchback Hills. They fit but there was about 2-3 mm distance from the top of the tire to the seat stay bridge. Deal breaker. Arizona monsoons are no fun without fenders. It's too bad RTP's and Natchez Pass tires are the only good ones offered in 559. If Jan ever decides to discontinue tires in this size we're screwed. See what happens when you get spoiled.

Craig in Tucson

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[Joe Bernard]

It's electric!

[Christopher Cote]

Judas!

Sorry, couldn't help myself, haha. Very nicely done. That's the classiest electric motorcycle with pedals anyone will ever see. Enjoy!

Chris

[Jim D Massachusetts]

Could you share a bit about how the wheel works and what it costs?            Jim D        Massachusetts

[Joe Bernard]

Jim: The cost at the moment is high, all I'm seeing on searches is $1749, which is full price. I've seen them as low as $1400 this summer, though, so keep an eye out. I got mine used. (Keep in mind the whole motor-and-battery system is in the hub, a lot of low-price hub kits out there list motor and battery prices separately).

It's a torque-sensing pedal assist system which reacts to how hard you press the pedals. The best way to describe it is levels of tailwind: If you very lightly pedal, you'll get a light tailwind; mash the pedals and the wind gets much bigger. It's a nice experience because it feels like regular cycling, just augmented.

This cycling experience can be modulated with the power settings, too. There's Zero, Eco, Standard and Turbo. I mostly ride in Standard which is a fair amount of boost on rolling terrain, but not like a giant motor hammering you down the road. I was out a while today, and into strong headwinds and up hills I just stayed in Standard and hammered the pedals..I worked up a bit of a sweat. Turbo I reserve for traffic when I would rather lead the cars than squeeze between them, or near the end of a ride when I'm tired and just want to blast home. Range is about 25-30 miles if I stay away from Turbo; I can easily kill the battery in 10 miles if I blast it the whole way..so I don't do that!

The nifty thing about this kit over others on the market is it's all self-contained, there's no looking for a place to mount the battery, no wires strung all over the frame. It's all in the wheel: you flip a switch on the wheel itself, then adjust power settings from the app on your phone (I have a Quad Lock mount on the bars). The app shows speed, power level and battery level; plus records the whole trip including a map trace of the ride.

I'm very happy with it. I've owned more powerful (like stupid power up to 40mph, this one tops out at 25) mid-drive kits that are quite the project to install and are kinda insane to ride..this one is more manageable for me as a cycling experience. A drawback is all the weight is in the back, it can feel a little odd until you get adapted. Also, I don't look forward to wrangling it off the bike to fix a flat, so I run a tough and heavy Schwalbe back there. My first attempt at flat fixing would be to pull the tube from the side of the rim and see if I can get the hole patched, but if push comes to shove I can flip the bike over and pull the wheel..I carry a 15mm PDW "butter knife" wrench for the axle nuts.

I hope that's clear enough, holler if you have any more questions.

[Jim D Massachusetts]

Thanks Joe. Will look forward to some future ride descriptions                Jim D            Massachusetts

[Jake P]

Wild!

BTW - I've found with my Boscos, they got much more comfortable when I trimmed them down 3/4s an inch, and angled them a biiiit furhter down. The top tube of my A/R is just too short to comfortable rock all 9(?) inches of that back sweep! Really thinking about rocking some billies next. Just food for thought! LOVE that blue though!

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[Joe Bernard]

Yes indeed, Jake, I already chopped an inch off. Partially to stretch the reach a bit and partially to get those maddening flared ends off..my cromoly Boscos are a bit oversized and getting levers and grips on there was a project!

[Kellie]

I have 2.35 RTP on my Waterford Atlantis, and fenders!

[Steven Sweedler]

I have RTP by Compass/RH, both regular and Extra light that measure 52 mm wide, on Cliffhangers they go out to 55, my 2.35 Big Apples measure 58 mm wide on Sun Rhyno Lite rims. Steve

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[Joe Bernard]

It's un-electric! The wheel got moved to my Clem L, so the A/R has been reimagined in its original guise as the prototypical gravel bike before we knew to call them that.

Note one shifter. Remember when Grant built a Clem L as kind of a cheater 3-speed without actually removing the multispeed stuff? Well I have this arthritis thing where using a right-side shifter is a bigger, and I also have two Paul Thumbie mounts with Shimano shifters on them. The rear clicker went on the Clem, left side, and here I was with one front shifter left. 3-speed!

I locked the rear derailer on one cog with a short bit of cable starting at the rear cable stop, and put a triple up front, easy peasy. It's low-geared enough to spin up trails and my hill near my apartment, and high-geared enough to... ok I spin out going down hills and coast and don't mind even a little bit. I like it!

Note actual gravel!

[j.schwartz]

Bonus points for the Schrader valves!

[Abcyclehank]

Joe,
Much approved. Only issue is that is to nice of a derailer to only serve as bling. Enjoy the gravel; enjoy the non-e Riv.
Going to E-bike one of my Rivendells today; making an E-Ent.
Will let you know how it goes!

Ryan “influenced by Joe’s e-converting bikes” Hankinson
West Michigan

[Joe Bernard]

Oh I disagree about the derailer: it's pretty, it matches the vintage of the frame and it's derailing! No one will ever know I'm not shifting it 😬

You're boosting your Quickbeam? Excellent choice! Email me when you get a chance k, I'd like to hear about the motor and whatnot.