New look for rivbike.com and new News blog

[Rivendell GM Dave]

Hi Everyone, 

Just a heads-up that we launched a new theme today for the rivbike.com webstore. We enlarged the photos all around, spruced up the homepage, improved the search, and updated a number of things for a smoother experience on desktop and mobile. We hope you like it!

The other big reveal is that the Blug, our newsy blog that has been on Tumblr ever since 2010, has now moved within rivbike.com to https://www.rivbike.com/blogs/news.   With that move, you now have one site for all the latest product updates, news and Grant's blog. Just head to the homepage.

Enjoy and let us know what you think. 

Dave Schonenberg

[Joe Bernard]

It's Dave! Thanks for all the hard work on the new site and good to hear from you again man! 🙋‍♂️

Joe Bernard 

[Garth]

My first desktop impression in navigating it is "awkward".  Some large images, some small. 2 columns only, lots of empty white space. On product pages the product detail font is oddly small/compressed/faint in relation to the title font and large images. I find it an awkward . 

I prefer seeing more items on one page, utilizing the available space with content, not plain white background. I can see plain white background anywhere. 

The 3 bar thing for desktop websites is to me not a good look or function. It seems as web design and function professes to progress/improve/evolve, it does the very opposite. It's like jumping out the bedroom window and walking around the block to get to the kitchen. 

"Just the facts"  ... so to speak. 

[islaysteve]

I was a webmaster (of sorts) for a while, so I know how tough it can be to redesign a page or site.  Thanks for your work.   I took a quick look around the site just now.   I don't mind the general look, but the search function, in particular, needs looking at.  I went to "Brakes" and searched for brake shoes.  It came back with a few products, including whole brakes.  I know that you carry Kool Stop shoes, because I just looked at them recently.  But no Kool Stop came back with the first search.  When I just searched "Kool Stop", I got the Kool Stop products.  So this is not good.  I would prefer that there be subcategories, i.e. click on Brakes, then get another menu for the various items people might search for pertaining to Brakes.  I hope these comments are helpful.  Cheers, Steve

[Eric Daume]

If you use the more common term “brake pads,” the Kool Stops pop right up as the first result. 

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[Dave]

Thanks for the comments. Search is still in progress. The problem is that we have SO MUCH text on our product descriptions and articles that it throws the standard search for a loop. We're working on it. Stay tuned. 

[Benjamin L. Kelley]

I've noticed some other sites switching to this theme for their site/webstore. I find it hard to navigate to find things.

My main complaint is it tends to merge the website and the webstore into a seamless amalgamation of "site" and I can't tell whether I'm going to be reading an article/page or looking at a product.

I prefer separate more defined experiences. But that's just how I use websites and shop.    Ever walk into a store and think, is this a store or someone's house? That's the kinda vibe this style of theme gives me.

That being said, I'll still use it if I have to.

Just my $0.02

--ben

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[Dave]

Thoughtful input! We considered changing around the navigation to a more stark "Shop" & "Learn" format, but left the navigation exactly as it was on the previous site. The reason was that there would be no learning curve for customers accustomed to the old way... for now. Finding stuff should be familiar, but yes, we are working on improving that. 

Stay tuned for more changes. We're on the same wavelength. I'll take your two cents thanks!

[Andrew Turner]

Love it! I think the home page for a lot of sites is underutilized, and giving it a sorta brick and mortar shop vibe is a clever approach since you're always first greeted with what's new...not sure what the confusion is since the navigation is pretty much identical. I also dig the oversized bounding boxes for sale items, I don't think I've ever seen that but it's a nice tone on tone, and a smart work-around versus having to take all new photographs of items on same/complementing backgrounds kinda like what Crust did with the color backdrops.  

Thumbs up, 

Andrew

[Mark Roland]

Looking good.  Regarding the sub categories, which indeed can be helpful, if you open the "3-bar" menu, you get the drop down major categories--Parts, Gear, Garage Sale, etc. By clicking the "+" sign next to a main category, you get subcategories--eg, under Parts, you get Bottom Brackets, Brakes, Cassettes, Etc. If you click on brakes, you get the whole shebang, blended together--calipers, levers, pads, cables--all intermingled with willy and nilly.  BUT, if you click directly on the word "Parts" instead of the "+", you get taken to the Catalog, which breaks down brakes into: Brake types, brake hardware, etc. (The catalog also appears to the right of the drop down main, but is cut off, at least on my laptop.) Would there be a way for that click on Parts to bring you to exclusively that "catalog style" menu JUST for parts?

Two sections that could use a further "+" or submenu IMO would be brakes and handlebars.

It's not an easy task to develop a logical taxonomy for web site navigation. Multiple pathways and redundancies are good, but can sometimes be confusing when different pathways use different nomenclature, or when it's not clear where exactly you are.  The ultimate is to have a visitor who finds what they are seeking in two or three easy no-brainer clicks.

I imagine some further refinement and tweaking could be a benefit. Meanwhile, totally useable as is.

On Thursday, February 11, 2021 at 11:56:21 PM UTC-5 Dave wrote:

[Tim Baldwin]

I like the new look. Great to see Leah's excellently appointed Platypus build up on the new news section. It would be nice if you could click on an image to expand it. I like being able to check out all the little details on people's bikes.

[Dorothy C]

I like being able to see my whole purchase history in my account, via the page number scroller. I think the old site used to cut off at about 1 year’s worth of transactions

[Paul Richardson]

i for one made frequent use of the 'email me when this item is back in stock' option and would very much appreciate if that returned.

paul

takoma park, md.

[Eric Norris]

As a film shooter, I appreciate the obvious use of analog photographs on the home page. Nice!

--Eric Norris
campyo...@me.com

Insta: @CampyOnlyGuy

YouTube: YouTube.com/CampyOnlyGuy 

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[Julian Westerhout]

The navigation is a bit tricky --  the three bar menu shortcut is sort of semi-standard on phone apps, but not so much on websites. It took me a bit before I figured it out. I asked my wife to look at the page and to find the navigation menu -- she scrolled and looked for a bit, then said "there isn't one."  Had she scrolled all the way down she might have seen the links, or perhaps if the three bars stayed pegged to the top of the page she might have noticed them, but as it is she did not -- it takes some savvy and of persistence -- not sure that's the goal.  It's more minimal on the landing page, but less obvious and less user friendly IMHO. It is, on the other hand, appears to be trying to be trendy and "hip" -- which, ironically, seems antithetical to the position of Riv as a company.  YMMV -- I'm just a grumpy middle-aged guy in the frozen tundra of the midwest, so...

Julian Westerhout

Bloomington, IL  

[Jason Fuller]

I'll spend some time getting used to it before commenting but one thing I noticed is the geometry chart is compressed a bit too much and isn't really legible - though right-click and open in a new window solves that issue :) 

The old website was endearing but was certainly in need of a refresh! 

[Dorothy C]

On the old site, Email when back in stock would never deliver to my Apple email account, only my work one. Wouldn’t show in junk folder either

[Eric Marth]

Thanks for the alert, Dave! Been looking forward to seeing the redesign. Striding in the right direction :) 

A few thoughts follow. 

Homepage photographs

I really dig the wild, free, low-light, long exposure photographs here. And I generally really dig and admire the idea that a place that sells incredible bikes has a front page where you can't even really see the frames. 

Product pages

I'm glad that you can finally see things in bigger and better resolution. A lot of these pictures are way way way crispier than on the old site. The mouse-over function on the old version never worked for me. I find that the huge, long column of text is a bit tricky to parse and difficult to read. Would it be possible to have a gallery of product pictures towards the top with the text below, with the text running the full width of the page?

Category pages

I would find it easier to browse if all of the products were displayed in a grid with each shown at the same size. Easier to scan, allows the eye to follow a straight line. 

Restock email alerts

Gotta have these alerts

Newly updated/added

Would it be possible to have a page where newly added and updated and restocked items could appear together? Crust does this and I appreciate it. I've noticed another Crust comparison above, they did a nice job. But their site is almost entirely a store, without the blog, news feed and tons of articles and information to incorporate. I appreciate Will's re-stock updates! 

Staff bikes

I have always dug this page and wish it was more actively updated! Looking forward to the return. 

Article page

This could be organized a bit better, perhaps with headings for categories with individual articles bulleted below. Having to click into each sub-category page is a little cumbersome. 

Sizing and geo page

The chart is large! I can zoom in using the zoom function in my browser or right click to view at full size but on my MacBook the chart displays at a size that is small and pixelated and unreadable without user-end manipulation. 

[aeroperf]

Is it just me, or does anyone else think that with a store that sells bicycles, you should be able to get to the bicycles with one click from whatever the default page is?

Now: rivbike.com, scroll, scroll, scroll to the bottom, Product Catalog, Bicycles & Frames... 

Agree with Staff Bikes comment and Restock email alerts.

[aeroperf]

Ah, I see I missed the sidebar.  That's better!

[greenteadrinkers]

I totally get this is in process. My initial thoughts seem to be that the "brand" is a bit missing from the site, or maybe it's a bit scattered and broken up. The converted get it and know it and will put up with anything because they love it. But those outside have to dig, thus it's not doing a great job selling the Riv lifestyle. Thinking back to the mid-00's the site had tweed all over the place, yeah heavy-handed, but it did a great job communicating a visual language that translated into a lifestyle and in the process helped reinvent cycling and the culture of cycling. Right now, I have to dig to see or hear that story, I have to dig to be sold that story. When I arrive at the home page I get is a full-frame image of a middle-aged white dude fixing a flat. Cool shot for sure, but not very inclusive. You don't want new customers to have to dig.

[greenteadrinkers]

... not to say that Riv needs to stuck in tweed. Brands evolve.

[Joe Bernard]

The home page has a rotating set of pics of people working on or riding Rivbikes in normal clothes. The mission statement of the company is below this. I think it is sufficiently explanatory and inclusive. 

[greenteadrinkers]

Sure, I'm not throwing shade, I love Riv, just my initial reaction.

[Chris L]

The product pages, with some large photos and many small photos is very unfriendly and if you want to change categories, you have to scroll all the way back to the top to find the three little lines (which are almost invisible in those huge b&w images at the top) and click it again.  Maybe once in the products sections, keep the navigating tree visible?  If possible.  And make all of the product links the larger size.

[eddietheflay]

Not to compare...but the Velo Orange site of course does not have the quality to photos that Riv does but 1000% useable and easy to navigate. Why when you are in a category do you have to look down at the bottom of each page to make the screen advance to next page. Why not simply load the whole category worth of items = fiddly. I too appreciate the challenge and hope the new look serves Riv in a way that makes for happy everyone. My first brief look suggests clunky. 

[Zac Terrones]

Does anyone know where the scans of grant's pics that were recently uploaded went?

[Joe Bernard]

It's a little clunky for me, too, but I suspect I think this every time they update the site. I'm going to give it a couple weeks to forget how the old one worked. 

On Friday, February 12, 2021 at 4:24:56 PM UTC-8 eddietheflay wrote:

[Berkeleyan]

Dave, it's better than the old site, thanks!

My initial suggestions are to (1) have the masthead "stick" to the top of the browser window, so I always have access to the triple-bar widget, and the human head,magnifying glass,and shopping cart icons. (please consider activating the script that will let their proper functions appear as a strip of text when the mouse is hovered over them), and (2) work to let each page have some reference anchor back to the page or category it came from. For instance the "Saddle Sores" page is a helpful article amidst the collection of cycling tips, but I don't know that it's one of several articles in a group on cycling tips when I'm there looking at it.

And bravo on the order history in the view of my account! Wow, I have spent a lot at RBW over the years :-)

- Andrew, Berkeley

[Joe Bernard]

Andrew,

I'm not looking at my order history. When you include last year's custom the number is probably shocking! 😳😂

[Anthony Coffin]

Speaking as someone who does most of their browsing on the phone, the updated mobile version is so much better. I can't believe how fast it is! I love the clean look and it is so much easier to search and browse. As for the desktop version, I'm kind of neutral on the changes. The desktop almost looks too clean, but it's super fast and I find it easy enough to use at first glance.

Thank you for all the work that has gone into this. I think it's going to make my experiences on your sight so much more enjoyable.

Anthony Coffin

St Louis MO 

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[Jeffrey S]

I find the different sized photos to be really confusing to browse the products.

[Philip Williamson]

This is pretty cool.

I agree when people say to stick the nav bar to the top of the screen and to organize the categories by subtype. OptimalSort offers free card sorting software, which can help organize categories. Its super helpful, even used internally, and card sorts are fun exercises.

I think the different size images could work if the size had meaning, or the categories were broken down. I had to shift scanning modes from “words” to “images.” Then I didn’t mind so much.

Hopefully you get happier customers who come more often and buy more stuff!  

Philip

Santa Rosa, CA

[Philip Barrett]

Still quite a few 404s when you click on links to frames.

[Joe Bernard]

Hmm, I miss the ability to see most of the products in a category on one screen, then I can click on the one I want to investigate. Now if I go to Cranks I see one product and have to scroll down through all to see what's available. 

[Dave]

Hi Paul, Good catch. The restock notifications have been updated and appear on out-of-stock items. For example: https://www.rivbike.com/collections/lights/products/twofish-flashlight-holder

[Edwin W]

I agree with @aeroperf: I always thought it was too hard to find the bikes! 

When you click the three bar menu, "Bicycles and Frames" are at the top: good! 

Now how would you look at the bikes? You have to click on that, read all of the descriptions, and then wade through a bunch of pictures: big ones of bikes, small ones of add ons, then there is another page of more, if you get there.

Maybe: a "+" sign next to Bicycles and Frames with each model listed there. 

I think the descriptions could go under some page called "design philosophy" or something. I know someone who wants to read everything about Riv would like to get into that, but I think most people looking for a bike would like to click on each model and look at them.

I am glad you all are working on it!

Thanks for running a great company,

Edwin

[Berkeleyan]

Please consider having the top menu anchored... it would be a real boon when scrolling down through an article or product section to have the top menu navigation right there, as a sticky.

- Andrew, Berkeley

[Joe Bernard]

I feel lost when I go there now. It's just a big photo of someone riding and my first thought is always, "Ok now what do I do?" I like Analog's page with a slide show of things to click on right away if you don't want to go search the menu. It's like a "welcome inside and look around" sign. 

[Ray]

I doubt that our complaints will change anything after all the work and money that likely went into the change, but I agree with you. I think it's a little silly to be a retrogrouch about web design, but I personally preferred the old site to the current one--even the last iteration I found much more usable. But I also always access it from a desktop and I imagine a growing portion of the business on the site is being done from mobile which it now handles much better. Oh well :/

-Ray

On Friday, March 19, 2021 at 7:51:47 AM UTC-5 Paul Richardson wrote:

maybe i'm screaming into the void here, but i don't like the new site at all.  it's just not fun to use.  give me the tweed back any day.  i'd spend more time (and money) on the site, for sure.  i found it easier and friendlier to use.  sure, the most recent iteration had issues with enlarging photos, but the pendulum swung entirely too far in the "sleek" direction for my taste.  it feels now like the website has thru axles and disc brakes.

paul

takoma park, md.

[Bill Lindsay]

I was typing this before Ray's response above.  Ray said briefly what I was going to say in a long-winded way.  My too-long-didn't-read version is pasted below:

=======================================

Generally speaking, I think of the participants on this Google Group to be somewhat on the older end of the age spectrum, somewhat on the "more years riding" end of the cycling experience spectrum, and tend extremely to 'affection for and loyalty to Rivendell as a company'.  If we narrow this group of 'participants' to just 'posters' then that narrows us down to 'big screen' users (Personal Computers, not phones)

Now, if you were Rivendell and were losing a website because of back end issues, and needed to build a new one, I think it's totally reasonable that you could go for "exactly the same" or "something different".  They decided on something different.  In doing something different, I think it makes sense for them to try to target younger riders, less experienced riders, and people who are new to Rivendell not already devoted converts.  Also, it makes sense to try to target 'small screen' users.  

If that's the goal, then annoying the older, loyal, knowledgeable big screen users sounds to me like success.  :)  Hopefully Rivendell gets some of the new customers they want.  If the formerly loyal old-timers stop shopping at Rivendell out of protest over the website, then maybe they weren't really all that loyal.  Other former Riv customers have left in a huff over politics, double top tubes, and long chainstays.  The door is always open and it can always be used as an entrance or an exit.  :)

Personally, I'm not a huge fan of the new site, but I know I'm not the target.  I'm older, more experienced, more knowledgeable and more fiercely loyal than the customers Rivendell needs to attract in order to stay healthy.  I spend plenty at Riv, and will continue to do so.  Rivendell was never going to convince me to spend more with their website.  If Rivendell wanted me to spend more, Grant or Will would call me and ask me to spend more.  :)  My favorite interface for purchasing is in-person, and my second favorite is the telephone.  A few years back, rivbike.com was on my regular daily rotation of sites I would visit, and it isn't anymore.  The old rivbike.com served almost as a social media site in that way, or as a blog, at least to some of us.  Observing the changes of rivbike.com was like observing the operations of the business itself.  Now it's less of a knot-hole through which I can peer into inner-Rivendell.  Now it's more of a display case.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Ted Fay]

nice work harder than it appears. 

many of the internal links are broken, and wind up on the home page. it’s not a great experience, and Google doesn’t love it. 

fixing all the links in transferred content is a pain, but at a minimum have a good 404 page. better to tell the user you know they wound up in the wrong place then just sending them there

[John A. Bennett]

Thank you for your feedback, Ted. I recently spent some time clicking around on the internal links,

and thought I had found all that didn't work. If you can think of any that didn't get you where you wanted

to go, please let me know.

Thanks! 

John (jo...@rivbike.com)

[Edwin W]

Since I last posted the situation seems to be much better:

Now you can hover on the "bikes" menu up top and you immediately get a drop down of the bikes! They are, after all, the pride and joy of this BIKE company!

Good job,

Edwin

[Paul Richardson]

how about adding a browser tab icon ("favicon" i suppose they're called)?  i might be wrong, but i think i remember one on the previous iteration of the site.

paul

takoma park, md.