Bosco / Clem riders: Do your knees hit the bars?

[BlackBomber]

I'm in the process of building up a Clem H with 55cm Boscos, and a 115mm reach "7" stem. The stem is a placeholder until my 120mm Tallux comes in, but that won't give much more room. Note that a 45cm complete would have come with the shorter 110mm stem. Anyway, it seems like the bars and my knees will be in conflict on some turns. Something I'm familiar with (owning a couple of pre-WWII American bikes). I also have bar end shifters, although I think it would be a problem with thumbies, also. The bars are raised with the grips resting about an inch higher than my seat, and maybe a 10-12 degree rotation back. I'm 5'4" with a 79cm PBH on a 45cm frame. It was a toss up between the 45 and 52, and I felt more comfortable with the idea of a 45 as 52 is just about where I feel comfortable on a road bike, and I wanted more standover. Plus my converted MTB build I'm replacing has the same top tube length as my Clem, and I feel great on that bike.

So my question is, when properly fitted, do these bars interfere with knees in real world riding, or did I pick the wrong size frame?

[ANDREW ERMAN]

Hi!  I have a Clem and I don’t have any problem  I have thumbie type mounts.  Wonderful bike. Enjoy!   I have the 12 cm Tallux by the way.  Andy

On Sat, Jun 27, 2020 at 8:53 AM BlackBomber <wilso...@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm in the process of building up a Clem H with 55cm Boscos, and a 115mm reach "7" stem. The stem is a placeholder until my 120mm Tallux comes in, but that won't give much more room. Note that a 45cm complete would have come with the shorter 110mm stem. Anyway, it seems like the bars and my knees will be in conflict on some turns. Something I'm familiar with (owning a couple of pre-WWII American bikes). I also have bar end shifters, although I think it would be a problem with thumbies, also. The bars are raised with the grips resting about an inch higher than my seat, and maybe a 10-12 degree rotation back. I'm 5'4" with a 79cm PBH on a 45cm frame. It was a toss up between the 45 and 52, and I felt more comfortable with the idea of a 45 as 52 is just about where I feel comfortable on a road bike, and I wanted more standover. Plus my converted MTB build I'm replacing has the same top tube length as my Clem, and I feel great on that bike.

So my question is, when properly fitted, do these bars interfere with knees in real world riding, or did I pick the wrong size frame?

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[Joe Bernard]

The answer is...kinda maybe. I had those bars on a 45cm Clem L and could get a bit of knee interference on a sharp walking-speed turn if I didn't remember to pull the inside knee in, but in practice I always remembered and it was fine. With thumbshifters. You'll need to chop the bar the approximate length of the shifter if you're adding bar-ends or them suckers will stab ya.

[Mark Roland]

I have a 52cm El Clem, aka Clem L, with bullmoose Boscos. I also have regular Boscos on my 26" Santana tandem. I use stem shifters on El Clem and bar end shifters on the tandem. I haven't experienced any knee hits, even when standing and sprinting for the line. (Okay, standing to power up an incline).

Sounds like you are still in the process of building the bike up. If that's the case, it can be hard to estimate this kind of thing by just turning the bars and noting how close they get. That's because the bars rarely turn that much, except maybe at really slow speeds--that's the reason toe overlap with the wheel is generally not an issue until you are putting along.

If they do hit, you have options. You could cut down the bars as necessary to prevent the issue--this kind of makes sense on a 45cm, in terms of being proportionate. Or you could go with an on the bar shifter, or stemmies. Or you could switch to bars with less back sweep.

[Tully Lanter]

My experience on a 52cm Clem with Boscos was much the same: contact only at very slow speeds--like U-turn-on-a-sidewalk slow. It was never a practical problem for me, even as someone who strongly dislikes toe overlap. 

[Justin Lai]

Hi, I'm 2-3 inches taller than you and also have a 45cm Clem H (2017 model) with 55cm Boscos. I bought the bike complete a few months ago, so I'm assuming I have the 110mm stem (Although I haven't measured it myself). 

To answer your question, I haven't had the issue you described with my bars and knees. I actually have never had a bike fit me so perfectly! How much turn are we talking about, when your knees make contact with the bar? Would you mind sharing a photo of your build-in-progress?

For what it's worth, I'm currently "Riv-ing" my partner's 1995ish Rockhopper. I picked up some 52cm bosco bars for her along with a 110mm nitto stem, and we unfortunately experienced the exact issue you described. The fix ended up being tilting the saddle back around 5 degrees, and sliding the saddle back as far back as it was safe to do so. The shift in the saddle made all the difference. 

[Ed Carolipio]

Knee hitting isn't unusual with bars that go back, an upright riding position, and when riding very slowly around turns (though the bar ends make it happen at a shallower turn angle). I have a 78cm PBH and it has happened to me with: Bosco on a Clem, Bosco on a Bubbe, Albatross on an Appa, and Billie on a Hillsen. It shouldn't be happening at speed since one tends to steer by flopping the bike sideways rather than turning the handlebars.

--Ed C.

[BlackBomber]

Hi, and thanks for all of the helpful replies. Since my posting, I received and installed my 12cm Tallux. As I suspected, that didn't help much, even with the quill raised to the max mark (which looked a bit funny, too). However, rotating the bars from the 12deg grip angle to the recommended starting point of 7 deg helped. Also getting confirmation from Will at Riv, and some of you that this is expected. Yes, there is still interference, but I've realized my aversion was mainly due to second guessing my choices. I'm totally acclimated to the riding position now. I've also lowered the stem to the minimum possible height (which is still generously tall with the short head tube on the 45cm. I agree that it's a wonderful bike which practically rides itself. I don't want to trim the bars, as I like the multiple hand positions. I may switch to a stem shifter in the future, but for now I installed the bar ends I have, as I can just cut down the cables later. Yes, that made it rather worse, but I do like them (I should say it, as I still don't have a FD). 

No great photos, but I did snap this one of the build as it sits now:

On Saturday, June 27, 2020 at 11:53:45 AM UTC-4, BlackBomber wrote: