ISO: 10-speed spacers

[Patrick Moore]

Welp, the otherwise very competent LBS that built my new Oracle Ridge wheelset flubbed my special order of a dozen 10-sp Shimano spacers. I stole the spacers from the older, Soma slick wheelset, but I'd like to find at least 9 and up to a dozen 10 sp spacers. A second LBS I checked with just now doesn't carry loose spacers, at least, unless you can find them in an  ods-and-ends bin.

Does anyone have spares, or perhaps a worn out or otherwise unwanted 10 sp cassette? They measure IIRC about 1.6 mm. 

Thanks. Happy to buy, trade, or accept charity.

Patrick "14-15-16-17-18-19-20-22-25-28" Moore, in ABQ, NM

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Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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[Bernard Duhon]

 

 

Gang,

In my quest for fitting the largest tires my frames will take, I have put a larger tire on the front 38 mm of my 700 C and 35mm  in the rear.

 

On my 650 B conversion of a 700 C bike I have a 42 mm in the front and a 38 mm in the rear.

 

The larger tire is 3.5 mm taller than the smaller tire on an unweighted bike  

I suspect the lower tire pressures would result in an even smaller difference when I ride  the bike.

 

In any event I have noticed little difference.

 

Am I missing something here?

 

Bernard

 

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[JSO]

What Sheldon has to say - a number of years ago, I wanted wider tires (35 or 38 at the time) on one of my bikes for a tour that involved some badly paved roads. It turned out that the front clearance was fine, but not the rear. So I looked up what Sheldon had to say and happily used a wider tire on the front, noticing nothing.

Mixing/Matching Tires

Most bikes come with identical tires front and rear. This is all right for general use, but if you want to optimize your bike, you should consider using different tires front and rear. The front and rear tires have different loadings and different requirements.

• Narrower Front, Wider Rear

  If lightness is the primary goal, tire width/weight is limited by the risk of pinch cut flats, a.k.a. "snake bites." Since there is more weight carried on the rear tire, you can get away with a slightly narrower tire in front than you can in back.

• Wider Front, Narrower Rear

  A wider front tire makes sense in many applications, however, when handling and ride comfort are considered. A wider tire will generally provide better cornering traction than a narrower one, assuming appropriate inflation pressure.

  A wider tire also provides superior shock absorbency. I personally prefer a slightly wider tire in front, since I suffer from some wrist discomfort on occasion.

• Off-Road Issues

  Bicycles that are used some of the time on loose surfaces often benefit from a wider front tire, with a fairly aggressive tread, coupled with a somewhat narrower, smoother rear tire.

  The wide, knobby front tire will provide the all-important front-wheel traction. Front-wheel skidding almost always leads to a crash. For riding on soft surfaces, such as sand or mud, a wide front tire is essential. If the front tire sinks in and gets bogged down, you're stuck. If the front tire rolls through a soft patch OK, you can generally power the rear through to follow it.

  The narrower, smoother rear tire will have lower rolling resistance. Since most of the weight is carried by the rear tire, rolling resistance is more important on the rear than the front. If the rear tire slips, in most cases the worst that will happen is that you'll have to get off and walk.

  This is a great idea that developed out of BMX racing.

  Some mountain-bike tires come in matched sets, with different tread front/rear. The front tires tend to have the knobs set up more or less parallel to the direction of travel, for improved lateral grip and better steering control. The rears tend to have transverse knobs for driving/braking traction.

Joan O.

Arlington, VA

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[Garth]

I case you come up empty here Patrick, there's aliexpress wholesale website. I've ordered from the website from various companies without any issues. https://www.aliexpress.us/w/wholesale-10-speed-cassette-spacers-2.35mm.html. You can also get spare cogs there. https://www.aliexpress.us/w/wholesale-10-speed-cassette-cogs.html

If anyone made an 7-speed freehub, and it didn't make noise, I'd buy some and make my own cassettes.

[Patrick Moore]

ISO at least 7 and better 9, 10-speed spacers. Happy to salvage from worn out cassette. Please? $, trade, or charity.

Question: Where can I find a reliable chart showing manufacturer's (Shimano; not interested in other mfrs) width specs for spacers and cogs for 9, 10, and 11 speed drivetrains? If chains included, so much the better. Sheldon has a chart that includes 9 and 10 but does not include 11 but I'd like to compare 11 and confirm 9 and 10.

The 2 spare 10-sp cassette spacers I have (red plastic, ordered for Shimano 10 sp from Cycle Clinic)  measure 2.04 mm, but I stumbled across 6 alum spacers that measure 2mm. Are these alum spacers for 11 sp?

At any rate, I would like to find at least 7, better 9 2.04 mm spacers for the Shimano spline pattern.

I can find them new online for $6 per + shipping; can't find them on AliExpress; if youse plural have online sources reasonably priced, I'd be grateful to hear of them.

Thanks.

[Patrick Moore]

Re-threading this:

Thanks, Garth; you're fingers are obviously more deft than mine.

But a question, because now I'm confused (per other thread): how wide are Shimano 10 sp spacers? 

You say 2.35, Sheldon says 2.35mm, mine measure consistent 2.04 mm -- the red plastic ones I ordered from Cycle Clinic (expressly for 10 sp cassettes) in 2020. And  I found a half-dozen alum spacers in my bin that measure a consistent 2.0 mm.

So: is 2.04 -- 2.0 the 11 speed spacer?

The 14-28 10 sp cassette, as well as the 13-25, both use the red 2.04 mm spacers with an 11 sp chain and it all shifts wonderfully.

SO: please tell me what I want!

Thanks!

[Patrick Moore]

I forgot to add that Sheldon says 2.35 mm for 10 sp; but mine (assume 10 sp because so ordered) are 2.04, again consistently with Park digital caliper. Is 2.04 (or 2 mm -- willing to consider 4/100 mm user or instrument error, or mfr error) for 11 speed? At any rate, my various 10 sp home brew cassettes have been shifting wonderfully with the 2.04 mm ones.

And someone on the RBW list pointed me to the right page on AliExpress where I can find 2.35, 2.18, and 2.0 as well as 2.5 mm. Just want clarification on the 2.0/2.04 and confirmation for the 2.35.

It's all so confusing.

[Patrick Moore]

Perhaps -- guessing -- the 2.0 spacer is for 11 sp cassettes, and the (consistently measured) 2.04 mm plastic ones are so made to accommodate a bit of compression which the 2.0 (consistent) aluminum ones don't suffer?

So: 2.0 = 11 speed?

2.35: 10 speed?

2.54: 9 speed?

Cogs:

11 speed: ?

10 speed: 1.6 mm per Sheldon and my caliper

9 speed: ~1.8 mm per Sheldon (1.78) and my caliper.

[Harry Travis]

Patrick:

As Roseanne Rosanadanna said many times and many years ago: "You sure gotta lotta questions."

 Which are the same question.

Go to a bike shop and hand over a $tenner for a collection of used / worn cassettes, explaining that spider-less ones are of special interest because you want spacers, not cogs.

Why you want only Shimano and not SRAM or any aftermarket cassettes spacers is something you can keep secret. Me? I get infinite miles out of cassette spacers. And they are in my DEI program and practice

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Harry P Travis

Portland Oregon USA 

17.4.1

On Apr 2, 2024, at 10:54 AM, Patrick Moore <bert...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Garth]

I don't think it has to be exact down to the .00's Patrick, even if indexing, certainly not for friction shifting. Use the 2mm ones you have. I don't think the plastic spacers compress in a cassette. You might be able to gouge one with a sharp instrument, but to compress the entire circle in a relatively low torque setting ? I think not.

[Bill Lindsay]

Patrick Moore claims to be confused, which I believe.

Patrick Moore claims to have bought a product that he understands to be a 10-speed spacer, and that object measures 2.04mm in thickness

Patrick Moore notes that St Sheldon's site says that 10-speed inter-cog spacers are 2.35mm in thickness

Patrick Moore requests an explanation of the above apparent discrepancy

I suspect Patrick Moore bought a different product than he thinks he bought.  There is a common product that enables one to fit a 10sp cassette onto an 11sp road cassette driver.  That product is a spacer, and that spacer is 2.0mm thick.  Problem Solvers is one vendor that sells such a product, and it has nothing to do with inter-cog spacers.  

I use 2.35mm when calculating 10-speed stack ups and I use 2.18mm when calculating 11-speed stack ups.   

The Performance webstore has a <$25 price on the Shimano HG-500 10-speed 11-25 cassette.  That would yield a bunch of spacers and a bunch of useful cogs.  The HG-500 model has no spider stuff.  It's all cogs and spacers, riveted together and the rivets are easy to scrub out.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks, Garth; I get that impression. I'll probably order lots of both 2.0 and 2.35. Thanks again for the link.

Patrick Moore, who would find life much easier if he really knew what he was doing (but then again, that's what lists are for).

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[Ted Durant]

FWIW, the center-center spacing for Shimano cogs is:

7sp 5.00

8sp 4.80

9sp 4.35

10sp 3.95

11sp Road 3.69

11sp MTB 3.90

Sorry, I don’t have 12 and 13. 

Cog + spacer widths need to add to those numbers. Theoretically you can use thinner cogs than spec with wider spacers, but you would run into trouble with chain fit using thicker cogs with thinner spacers. If somebody finds or assembles a complete table of cog and spacer thickness spec’s, that would be a significant contribution to humankind.

I’ll be posting on a related topic, soon.

Ted Durant

Milwaukee WI USA

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks, Ted. I reviewed Sheldon's chart and saw these measurements for 7 thru 10; where did you find the 11 sp measurements?

I'll be interested in you related post.

The 10 sp Miche cogs are odd. The Shimano 10 speeds measure 1.6 mm wide across the cog, the Miche ones measure 1.6 mm at the teeth but ~1.8 mm or so below tooth level; thus the 2 mm spacers, I guess. At any rate, an 11 speed chain works fine on those 10 sp Miche cogs.

Yes, someone please assemble a complete chart for at least Shimano cassettes, freehub bodies, cogs, spaces, and chains.

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[Patrick Moore]

As a matter of fact, I've never used my Miche 10 sp cassettes with a 10 sp chain but I suppose those must also work. (Since I built those Miche 10 sp cassettes, I've used a chain "1 generation later" than the cassette because web scuttlebutt says that this promotes crisper shifting. At least, I have found no evidence to the contrary -- shifting is wonderful, as it is with the same chain and the cassette made from 1.6 mm Shimano cogs and the same 2 mm spacers.)

On Wed, Apr 3, 2024 at 8:58 AM Patrick Moore <bert...@gmail.com> wrote:

...  At any rate, an 11 speed chain works fine on those 10 sp Miche cogs.

[Garth]

I've never seen extensive specs on the Miche way Patrick but Relja @bikegremlin has charts of Shimano and Campy.

https://bike.bikegremlin.com/3573/bicycle-cassette-rear-chainrings-standards/#2.1.2

https://bike.bikegremlin.com/1232/bicycle-cassette-compatibility/

[Ted Durant]

On Wednesday, April 3, 2024 at 2:05:32 PM UTC-5 Garth wrote:

https://bike.bikegremlin.com/3573/bicycle-cassette-rear-chainrings-standards/#2.1.2

https://bike.bikegremlin.com/1232/bicycle-cassette-compatibility/

Jackpot! Thanks for sharing!

 

[Patrick Moore]

Update on this for anyone who cares. I ordered 10 each (1 extra in case of loss) of 2mm, 2.18mm, and 2.35 mm spacers from AliExpress per Garth's suggestion; thanks again, Garth. 

The upshot after much soul (and web) searching is that Shimano 10sp cogs are 1.6mm thick and take 2.35mm spacers, but Miche 10sp cogs are 1.8 mm thick in the body -- 1.6 mm in the teeth -- and take 2mm spacers.

I had built my #2-wheel for the Matthews "road bike for dirt" of Shimano cogs but used Miche spacers and, for the most part, it all works very well -- 11 sp chain on 10 sp cassette -- but when the chain is on the 18 t cog, a very much used cruising cog, precise chain adjustment is more finicky and requires more attention to trimming.

So I will replace the 2.0s with, probably the proper Shimano-width 2.35s, but I might try the 2.18s which I guess .... ???? .... are for 11 sp Shimano cassettes? -- simply because the 2.0s have worked so well except for that 18 to cog.

Finally, I placed the order on 4/05 and exactly 2 weeks later the passle of cogs appeared in my mailbox. 

$30 US and change for 30 spacers + shipping + NM or ABQ tax.

The cogs are all aluminum and a very pretty scarlet, and they are very minimally cut and make the stock 2.0 Shimano (I think) silver aluminum spacers look big and clumsy. And each of the 30 received was individually wrapped; I guess for ease of sorting. 

In case you were anxiously fretting about all this ....

I had earlier ordered a passle of 10 sp Shimano cogs to build up 14-28 10 sp cassettes, and with these spacers, I'm a convert to AliExpress for cheap, decent small parts.

[Garth]

That's very good news Patrick and great info about the cogs and spacers so now know I I too can build my own if needed. AliExpress for the win ! Like you, I ride certain combos that just aren't offered as completes. The Riv 7-speed hub is good news but there's no suitable cassettes made in combos I ride.  I have lots of 6-7sp freewheels and suitable hubs though to likely last me forever and a day so I don't need anything anytime soon.