New bike decision (help!)

[Gregger]

Long time listener, first time caller.  

It's a bit hard to tell if you lovely folks on this forum enjoy or loathe these "help me pick a bike" posts - there are a lot of them - but I really would greatly appreciate your input on my situation.  I bought a Leo Roadini a while back (my first Riv) and love it for pavement and gravel roads.  I now want to look into a trail bike for everything from dirt paths to midwestern single track (grounded and cautious - I'm 62 years).

So, I'm torn between a Platypus (love the aesthetics) and a Clem L (the ride experience is evidently sublime?). Or should I wait for the new stouter Susie to arrive (did I mention I weigh 205 lbs?).  I only ride for exercise a couple of hours a day, so no lugging weight on racks or bags . . .  would I overwhelm the Platypus frame in the woods?  Would the Clem have the ground clearance for roots and rocks?  

Obviously the Susie would be the safe and conservative choice, but I'm not a very patient person (this May? Any guarantees?), and I really do love the purple Platypus available currently.  The Clem L would offer a slightly larger tire clearance, and the low(ish) bottom bracket height would likely be sufficient 94.3 % of the time; and tig welds are just fine with me (sorry for the hurt feelings).

Or, a forth option - to be truly difficult, should I keep riding my Surly Krampus in the woods and continue to risk wiping out and injuring myself - it just demands to be ridden with abandon, and I scare myself.  That's my problem I guess, not the bike's.

Thank you so much in advance.  I know I've probably left out relevant information, but I've tried to keep this somewhat short.  Fail.

[Jim M.]

Get the Platy if it's your favorite. Any Riv can be ridden anywhere. The limiting factor to me is tire size -- is 50mm enough for what you want? If not, wait for Susie.

happy trails!

jim mather

walnut creek

[Richard Rose]

I’ve not ridden a Platypus but I’ve yet to hear it described as a trail bike. Love, love, love my Clem on & off road but if things get dicey it’s a bit overwhelmed with the lower bottom bracket - compared to my Gus. The Gus or the new Susie (get one! Run do not walk!) are singletrack machines. Yes they are good for other duties as well but are conceived & built to be mountain bikes. I am blown away by it on rough, rooty & slightly rocky singletrack. It is every bit the mountain bike that a Jones is (I had one) which is of course highly regarded in that category. I’ve yet to experience a pedal strike on the Gus. I’ve had quite a few on the Clem. And I am pretty decent at avoiding them if I do say so. So, IMHO if what you are looking for is a singletrack bike get the new Susie or try to find a leftover one/Gus.

FWIW, I am closing on 69 years old & have ditched my full suspension bike in favor of the Gus. As you allude to, I am a bit less aggressive on the Gus vs. the Ibis. I think that’s is smarter at my age. No less fun though.:)

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On Feb 24, 2024, at 11:51 AM, Gregger <gregharr...@gmail.com> wrote:

Long time listener, first time caller.  

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[Christian B-H]

Welcome, Gregger!

I have a Platy as my only riv, which I bought as a third option late because I missed the Gus boat in Dec 2021 and the Atlantis boat in April 2022. I mostly use the Platy for groceries, baby hauling and mixed gravel but occasionally ride it on more Rocky Mountain bike trails here in Boulder, CO. I KNOW I should be more careful and I USUALLY don’t have a problem, but I do almost always accidentally pedal strike on the Platy. Neither my Kona Rove nor my Karate Monkey have such a low bottom bracket, and my experience generally has been that it’s safer to use the right tool for the job. 

What I’m saying is, ride the Krampus rigid (and maybe single speed) if you want to slow down a bit, and ALSO get  the new Susie or the purple Platy you’re fond of. They won’t go unridden!

Happy pondering, 

Christian

[DavidP]

As Jim suggests, the Platypus isn't just a pavement bike (it'll actually fit 2.2s; mine has 50s and fenders) but, as Richard says, it's also not a trail bike. It's a good all-rounder and great on mixed surface, gravel-ish rides (and sure, some light singletrack is fair game). But if, as you say, you are looking for a bike specifically for "everything from dirt paths to midwestern single track" you'd be better suited by the Clem or Susie (and personally, I'd go for the Susie) even if you only put slightly bigger tires on it.

-Dave

[Joe Bernard]

The riding you're describing says Susie but - as you say - the Clem L will handle most of it. I don't need lugs either and I love my L (haven't ridden it on trails yet but will), I think this is the way unless you're super into the looks/color of Susie. Also Clem L means cheaper and no waiting! 

On Saturday, February 24, 2024 at 8:51:21 AM UTC-8 Gregger wrote:

[Tim Bantham]

Based on what you have described I would continue to ride your Krampus as you wait for the Susie's to become available.

My past Riv's that I have personally owned have been an Appaloosa and a Clem H. Those bikes are no longer in my stable. Between the two I enjoyed riding the Appaloosa off road more so then the Clem H. I build the Clem H as a purpose build analog mountain bike. I had a very nice build sparing no expense and I hated that bike. Part of the problem is that I wanted the bike to more then it was capable of. I live on the east coast where the terrain is rocky and rooted. There is a lot of stuff that you have to get off and walk with a fully rigged bike, The Clem was too long and unwieldy. Riding it was a chore in woods. The long chain stays were more of a bug than a feature. To be clear this was the Clem H which Riv no longer makes. Maybe the Clem L is better. I am only sharing my opinion based on the Clem H.

On the other hand the Appaloosa was set up as my dirt road touring bike. I can share one experience when I was riding with friends who were all on full suspension mountain bikes and/or hardtails and I had no difficulty keeping up. The terrain on this particular set of trails was fast and flowy and not rocky/rooted . The Clem H would have been more cumbersome in that same situation.

I currently have a modern all carbon full suspension mountain bike that easily handles the trails near me. Problem is that I don't ride it enough so it is currently up for sale. That bike is not easy to live with either. The suspension is something that I can't service myself, it has hydraulic disc brakes which I consider to be fiddly. AND I really don't like driving my bike in the car to get to the trailhead.

The Rivs that I currently own are a Platypus that I just finished building up this month, An A. Homer Hilsen that is currently in my work stand and my beloved Sam Hilborne. I've only ridden the Platy about 40 miles so far but I love this bike! That said, I  won't love riding the Platypus off road. In my opinion its just not the right bike for that. I personally would be much more comfortable on the Sam. The Homer will be strictly used as my road bike.

Keep riding the Surly that you own. Wait for the Susie and make a decision at that point. I would hesitate to rush into anything else just because they are currently available.

Hope that helps.

[Richard Rose]

What am I missing? Aren’t the Susie’s available right now? I mean, I know they are not here yet but at least they have not sold out. 

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On Feb 24, 2024, at 9:12 PM, Tim Bantham <tba...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Joe Bernard]

You can still get an orange 51cm Gus frame from Riv. 

[Kim H.]

@Tim and Richard,

The lugged Susies' are scheduled to come out next month, March as per the schedule goes. The pre-sale went live on February 8, 2024. It appears that none of them are SOLD OUT between the frame sizes and colors.

https://www.rivbike.com/products/frame-lugged-susie-w-longbolts-wolbis-slugstone?variant=41415129628783

In the meantime, the Clem frame sets and 52cm orange completes are in a second shipping container and won't be a RBW headquarters until next Month as per the current RBW newsletter from this past Friday.

https://us7.campaign-archive.com/?u=ad1569fa93a2ab2374ead2fde&id=e4bbcfef6b

Kim Hetzel.

[Patrick Moore]

This is very interesting; I thought all Riv models except the various road models were "country bikes" but to hear the Gus compared to a Jones would seem to be high praise, from what I read about the Jones (it's one of Bike Snob's keepers in his current bike purge).

I just gave away my sole mountain bike -- the much modified Monocog 29er -- in favor of a fatter-tire second wheelset for my Matthews "road bike for dirt,"  but I'll have to consider a Gus if I ever decide to get another mtb. Question: Can you get a =/< 160 mm Q with a Gus? What kept me from getting a Jones was the >160 mm Q.

Patrick Moore, also closing in very rapidly on 69, in ABQ, NM.

[Bill Schairer]

All interesting.  I just finished a week of gravel riding out of Patagonia AZ (highly recommended!) with a friend who is much more of a mountain/off road rider than myself.  He was on a Salsa Cutthroat and I was on my 2013 Atlantis with 50mm tires.  I make no bike recommendations but my buddy suggested I get a Surly Krampus for the next time.  He has 4 or 5 various off road bikes.  The owner of Patagonia Bikes thought my bike was awesome but did comment upon seeing it that he now understood why I described the ride as "bumpy." If I were doing a LOT of that riding, I suppose I would consider another bike. As it is, at 70, I think my Atlantis will do.  I did lag the second half of our longest ride but that was me, not the bike.

Bill S

San Diego

[Garth]

Patrick, 

The Jones frame is made with a Boost 148 rear spacing which calls for a 51-53mm chainline. What this does is move the cassette 3mm further away  from center. This is done for better tire and FD clearance. When I was looking at Jones frames, I read all this and while on the surface it seems one would be limited to using boost specific cranks, the obvious question arises ..... what's the difference between a boost crank and it's 51-53mm chainline and running a triple crank with either just the outer ring as a 1x, as long as you're in the 51-53mm chainline range ? Or, use the triple as a 2x with the chainline measured between the rings, given the proper length spindle ?  As far as the function, given the same chainlines, there is no difference, a 52mm chainline is a 52mm chainline. I see the potential issue though would be in using a road crank, to get the chainline out that far enough and the arms clearing the stays. This would require an appropriate length spindle, and if you're saying say, straight arm cranks, you may need a long-er spindle, which of course increases the tread width of the crank.

So the first thing to know is the width of the stays where the crank arms go.

All that said, Shimano does make a 52mm chainline XTR crank with a 162mm tread width, but doesn't list an inside arm width.  Otherwise there are lots of boost compatible cranks that are 168mm wide.  https://bike.shimano.com/en-US/product/component/xtr-m9100/FC-M9100-1.html.

I'm not sure how wide the Jones crank or how much clearance there is. Someone with a LWB would have to measure theirs.

Also the White Industries Road.VBC crank w/121mm bb = 158mm tread width, 51.5mm chainline as a 1X, 47.5mm as a 2X. This might be too narrow to clear the stays though, see the specs, plus the measurement of the given frame. 

https://www.whiteind.com/product/square-taper-road-cranks/

https://www.whiteind.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/Squaretapercrankdimensionsimage.jpg

All in all that's the first hurdle to clear, the chainstay width for the cranks. Then go from there. 

As for a new frame for Gregger, I can't say what would work for you as my perspective is inherently biased from my own sensibilities. 

[Richard Rose]

Patrick, my Jones was a “Jones 29”. This was the Jones “29’er” and came just before the “Jones Plus” bikes, be it LWB or SWB. Mine was a 130 spaced frame front & rear. It was a Diamond frame (not spaceframe) with a unicrown fork (not truss). Quick release axles and a very tight wheelbase. The current Jones SWB is the direct descendant of the Jones 29. I ran this bike with a 29” x 3” tire up front. It could actually take a 26” x 4.5” fatbike wheel! 29” x 2.6” was the most I could fit in the back. If memory serves it had a 73mm bb shell & I had no issues as far as q-factor. I am actually rather sensitive to wide Q & had to sell my fatbike due to it. Maybe the newer boost bikes have a wider Q, not sure.

Anyway it was a fantastic mountain bike. It was pretty good at most everything else as well. I had a second set of wheels with 2.25” smoothish tires for commuting / road duties. I never thought I would sell it.

But, I got the full suspension bug. And then I got the chance to ride a Clem & bought it - from the same guy who sold me the Jones! I was smitten immediately with the long stays & upright position of the Clem. I loved it so much I just had to get a Gus which has replaced the full suspension bike as my mountain bike. It (Gus) is every bit as capable as the Jones on singletrack - just more comfortable.:)

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On Feb 24, 2024, at 11:29 PM, Patrick Moore <bert...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Patrick Moore]

Thanks. Jones said he'd email me that OW of the chainstays at the end-of-cranks position but never did. But research indicates that current models won't give me the required 160 mm or lower Q and, in fact, after much measurement and calculation the arithmetical evidence convinced me that my quadruple goals -- 700C with true 3" width, 160 mm max Q, stays of non-absured length, and sufficient air between outside knobs and inside chainstays -- would be possible only with very carefully massaged plate yoke between bb and chainstays. In the event, for now, I decided that I don't need the hassle of another custom, and I chose instead to get a fatter (compared to current 50 mm Soma SV) sandy path wheelset for the Matthews #1.

As to the Gus, I'm sure it won't take a 622X76 tire, but I still wonder (a) how fat a tire will it take and, (b) what the minimum Q is.

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Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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[Gregory Harrison]

Thanks so much for the helpful input.  For some strange reason my post asking for advice took a week to actually appear on the forum; I assume because it was my first submission, and it had to pass through moderators .

In the mean time, I was finally able to get a hold of Jarrod at Hope Cyclery, and the dark gold XL Susie leftover - posted on this forum - was still for sale.  I made a snap decision to snap it up, and it should be delivered to me early this week.  I’m geeked.

If this hadn’t worked out, I may have gone with a Clem L, and enjoyed it for whatever terrain versatility it offered.  

Meanwhile, the fate of the Krampus (and all of the adolescent risk taking it engenders) would still be up in the air - and perhaps be the subject of my next post . . . “When is it time to ride like the fragile old timer you are?”.

Love being associated with Riv and this bunch.

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