Susie Longbolts vs Platypus for both pavement & off-road riding?

[Laura B]

Hello, I am new to this group and still trying to decide which Rivendell bike will be my first. I am torn between the Platypus and a Susie Longbolts. I hope that there are people here that have ridden both, or have turned one of them into their all-around, multi-terrain bike. Ideally, I would LOVE to have both, but that will take a few years to achieve!

As a note, all-terrain is pavement, gravel, fire roads, hard-packed sand. Not aggressive single track or severe off-road.

Rivendell promotes the Platypus mainly for pavement and the Susie for trails. In theory, if both were equipped with the same 2.2” all-terrain tire, which one would make the best multi-use bike? Would the differences be minor or is the geometry on one better able to adapt?

Should I limit my expectations to what the bikes were designed for?

Thanks for your help,

Laura

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

Hi Laura! 

I have a Platypus and am a big fan of it. I have not ridden a Susie, but I do have a Clem (which is in the same Hillibike category as Susie). I won’t speak to trail riding because I don’t do a lot of it, and my bikes are set up differently. But I see Blue Lug videos showing guys riding Platys all over the darn countryside, so it’s probably doable. 

My point would be this: How soon are you looking to get a bike? Because there is a shipment of incoming Susies heading to Rivendell soon, like this month, but there will be no Platypuses until middle to late 2022. (Rivendell says May 2022, but their bikes always seem a couple/few months delayed. Last year they said Platys would come October, then November, and so on and so forth. They actually came in April or May of the next year.)

So, if you want a bike soon, get a Susie. If you want to wait, Platys will arrive later in 2022.

L

[Ben Mihovk]

 Am I making this up, or is there going to be a Platypus style frame that will be tig welded and a little stouter tubing coming as well? Would that possibly be something that would fit the bill for Laura? 

Ben, who could be imagining things, in Omaha

Sent from my iPad

On Dec 5, 2021, at 8:01 PM, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Laura! 

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[Laura B]

Thank you for the Platy feedback… Do I want to wait 6 to 9 months more for a bike? No! But, I will be building up a frame and parts are back-ordered as well, so buying a frame now will still involve waiting to get all of the components. Although, I am trying to make my mind up fast incase I decide on a Susie.

I love the build of both bikes. I am not sure I want a tig welded version. Nothing wrong with tig welded bikes, but I already have one in the vintage MTB category.

My theoretical question is: if components and tires are the same,  how do the two bikes ride on pavement and easy trails? Is one of the bikes a better all-rounder???

[Joe Bernard]

Hi Laura, welcome!

Tire size may be the decider for you since you mentioned 2.2. The max listed for Platy is 50mm, which works out to about 1.95 inches. The Susie goes to 2.8 so is definitely the way to go if you wants lots of air between trail and rim. 

As for the question of which is a better all-rounder, the answer is both! Just about every Riv ever made - and certainly most of the current models - will happily do all the riding you've described, so I think you'll need to weigh other factors: tire size, color, lugs or fillet joints, higher toptube or lower (I'm into lower), and availability. Heck, you can choose based on the name you like best! 🙂

Joe Bernard

[Laura B]

Thank you Joe. My hunch is that you are right. All Rivendell bikes are multi-functional with the right components. I pulled the 2.2 tire size out of my head so that it would become a non-factor when making the comparison. I thought it was the largest Platypus could handle without fenders. Still curious to hear about ride quality from real world experience. Anyone riding a Susie for an afternoon over pavement? Or picking their Platypus for off-road trails?

[Jared Wilson]

Both bike will do what you're looking for, and you wont come near the limitations of either.

I had a Susie and my fiancee has a Platy, both bikes handle the type of riding you describe with ease.

The Susie is more confidence inspiring off road and demands a larger tire to take full advantage of its potential.

The Platy has a more sophisticated look and handles on road riding in a way that leaves you wanting for nothing.

I didn't love the way a large load felt on the front of the Susie, where as the Plat handles similar loads with ease.

All said I'll be getting another Susie this round, one size up from my previous size L.

I'll also be keeping a close eye on the next bath of Platy's as well, I feel there is enough difference between the two to justify owning both, tho I'm trying to keep it down to just one bike at a time.

Best of luck with whatever you choose

Jared in SLO

[Laura B]

Jarad, thank you for your insights. I have to laugh because the answers have made me confident that either bike will be a great all-rounder, but the answers have also made me yearn for both!

So, I am back to square one. Loving both bikes for their potential to compliment one another, but having no idea which one I like best as an all-rounder! Shallow me… the orange of the current Susie was easily tipping the balance in that direction. When they announced the current colors, it placed both bikes on equal ground. I have no doubt I will sweat it out till the last minute! I also predict I will buy a lime green Susie in 2021, then go nuts when an orange Platypus is released in 2022!!!

[Laura B]

EDIT…

Jarad = Jared

Lime green = Lime olive

2022 orange Platypus = my prediction

[Doug H.]

Laura,

I  can put the Clem L in the category you are searching just to muddy the waters. Mine is the Lime Olive and is set up 1x10 with knobby tires, 2.3 wide I believe. It is equally efficient on trails, gravel and asphalt. It climbs unbelievably for a 32 pound bicycle. In fact, it has made me rethink the weight of a bike being a significant factor in climbing and accelerating. 

Doug

Athens, Ga

[lconley]

The biggest difference will be the bottom bracket height and step-through ability. The Suzie is more attuned to off-road with a higher bottom bracket and will have a higher center of gravity to go along with the better ground clearance. The Platypus will have a lower center of gravity and a more typical Rivendell ride. I believe the Platypus has a lower step-though as well. 

No aggressive single track, no severe off road - go with the Platypus. I don't have a Suzie nor a Platypus, but I do have a Gus Boots Wilsen and a Betty Foy, which is a similar comparison. Subjectively, the Gus seems kind of tall and tippy in tight in-town maneuvers compared to the Betty. If you cannot decide, get a Clem L (I also have a Clementine) - best step-through ability of all.

If in still doubt, always go with the lugged bicycle - Platypus, but as others have pointed out - there is no bad choice here.

Laing

Delray Beach FL

[Leah Peterson]

Laura, 

Everyone here has given you sound replies. But again, we are back to availability of the bicycle. Would you be interested in purchasing an orange Susie and riding it until the Platys come to Riv? Rivendells hold their value and have great resale. I really think you could sell the Susie if an orange Platy comes your way. The other thing that was mentioned is a Clem L. You’ll have to buy used unless Rivendell has one hiding in a box somewhere (and they might, seeing as they just got an assortment in last week). It can definitely handle trails and has the fantastic step-through frame and big tire capability. It is a smaller investment and you might be able to have BOTH a Platy and a Clem. Coincidentally, I have both a Platy and a Clem and they make me deliriously happy.

Ben in Omaha mentioned a new version of a Platy rumored to come out. That was Rivendell’s  Rosco version of the Platypus, beefier tubes and fork, and TIG welded. That project has been put on hold indefinitely, sigh. 

Let us know what you’re thinking because this is a really fun thread! I enjoy the discussion about options and desires for favorite colors, etc. I’m cheering for you from here - I hope you get exactly the perfect bike.

Leah

On Dec 6, 2021, at 5:47 AM, lconley <lco...@brph.com> wrote:

The biggest difference will be the bottom bracket height and step-through ability. The Suzie is more attuned to off-road with a higher bottom bracket and will have a higher center of gravity to go along with the better ground clearance. The Platypus will have a lower center of gravity and a more typical Rivendell ride. I believe the Platypus has a lower step-though as well. 

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[Laura B]

Leah, your thoughts are appreciated. Do you know about orange Susie frames sitting around??? I have read most of the threads on these models and know how much everyone loves their bikes. It is what makes a decision so difficult. My thinking changes by the hour! Laing hit all of the factors that MIGHT make the Susie disappointing for my personal needs. I worry about the higher BB and loss of step-thru qualities. It is also closest to my vintage MTB that I have already upgraded with new 26” rims and RH 2.3" knobby tires. I have a 1 by 11 derailleur, cassette & shifter sitting in a box that will either go on a Susie or my current vintage. I am absolutely in love with the filet brazing, but that is not necessarily a reason to buy a frame… ;-)

In my heart, I do not want either to be an all-rounder!!! I want two distinct bicycles. I arrived at that criteria to keep the expenses down. I also have the derailleurs & cassette for a 2 by 11 speed drivetrain. It was always meant for a road-ish bicycle with 42-48mm smooth tires and fenders… sounds perfect for a Platypus!

At the moment, I am thinking I will complete my 1 by 11 vintage MTB build and wait for when a Platypus is back in stock. I will give me that district Rivendell geometry that I can not duplicate in the vintage bikes. If the Riv gods smile upon me, an all-is-sunny-in-the-world *orange* will be an option. Since I have been collecting quality components, I am not interested in spending money on a complete build. BTW, my size is 50cm… if anyone has frames sitting around!

[lucky...@gmail.com]

If you like orange, maybe also watch for a Cheviot for sale….

On Dec 6, 2021, at 07:22, Laura B <me2g...@gmail.com> wrote:

Leah, your thoughts are appreciated. Do you know about orange Susie frames sitting around??? I have read most of the threads on these models and know how much everyone loves their bikes. It is what makes a decision so difficult. My thinking changes by the hour! Laing hit all of the factors that MIGHT make the Susie disappointing for my personal needs. I worry about the higher BB and loss of step-thru qualities. It is also closest to my vintage MTB that I have already upgraded with new 26” rims and RH 2.3" knobby tires. I have a 1 by 11 derailleur, cassette & shifter sitting in a box that will either go on a Susie or my current vintage. I am absolutely in love with the filet brazing, but that is not necessarily a reason to buy a frame… ;-)

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[David Person]

From a purely aesthetics point of view, gotta love the Platypus.  Great lines and beautiful lugs.

[Laura B]

They are both beautiful bikes. For whatever reason, I was drawn to the Susie. I like the simplicity of the lugged seat clamp combined with filet brazing everywhere else. The high head tube. It looks like none other.

It is why it is hard for me to give it up even though every measure of logic points me to the Platypus! I want a Susie, but the Platypus would make the best companion to the vintage MTB I already own. No matter where I land, it will be an abundance of riches.

[iamkeith]

On Monday, December 6, 2021 at 10:03:29 AM UTC-7 me2g...@gmail.com wrote:

     They are both beautiful bikes. For whatever reason, I was drawn to the Susie. I like the simplicity of the lugged seat clamp combined with filet brazing everywhere else. The high head tube. It looks like none other. 

^ I'm with you on this.  I think the Susie is understated perfection, aesthetically speaking. (other than the fork crown, perhaps.)  Platypus is drop-dead gorgeous too, though I did love the lugged chainstay connection on the older mixtes.

On Monday, December 6, 2021 at 6:16:14 AM UTC-7 Doug H. wrote:

     I  can put the Clem L in the category you are searching just to muddy the waters. 

^ I was resisting chiming-in and muddying the waters, but this is actually the bike that satisfies the description of what you're wanting.  The perfect compromise for roads and trails.  Designed around perfect size tires (at least for me and my weight and riding conditions, and in terms of balancing cushion and rolling resistance and self-steer.)  If you don't like the aesthetics though, I'd understand completely

On Monday, December 6, 2021 at 6:47:25 AM UTC-7 lconley wrote:

     The biggest difference will be the bottom bracket height and step-through ability. The Suzie is more attuned to off-road with a higher bottom bracket and will have a higher center of gravity to go along with the better ground clearance. The  Platypus will have a lower center of gravity and a more typical Rivendell ride.

^This is exactly right, and is probably more significant than you think - especially if part of your desire is motivated by having ridden a Rivendell before.   The bottom bracket and center of gravity are quite high.  The Susie is really a full-on mountain bike by any rational standard.   I've said this in other threads, but I really didn't fully grasp this when I got rid of my Clem to get a Susie.  Of my three other "modern" mountain bikes that I ride regularly, all have more bottom bracket drop than my Susie!  I love the bike, but It doesn't feel like a Rivendell to me - which is slightly perplexing because all of my bike purchases in the last 15 years or more, including mountain bikes, have been informed by my appreciation for Rivendell's design philosophy.  It's always been interesting how much of the industry reluctantly follows Rivendell's lead, but it's really surprising when they then surpass and out-riv riv.  (Similar thing has kind of happened with tire widths on road bikes - where riv was once the only place you could get a road bike that fit reasonably fat tires, there are now many others that take even fatter ones.)  So whereas I used to prefer my Clem to any other bike I own for relaxed, meandering, paved pathway rides and the like, I don't enjoy the Susie the same way and end up taking other bikes instead.  

On Monday, December 6, 2021 at 7:17:44 AM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:

     Would you be interested in purchasing an orange Susie and riding it until the Platys come to Riv? Rivendells hold their value and have great resale. I really think you could sell the Susie if an orange Platy comes your way.

^  This is actually sound advice.  However, I'd add one caution:   The Susie being so different from other Riv models means that not all your parts would easily swap over:  You'll need a wider bottom bracket on the Susie than on the Platypus;  you'll probably want wider rims on the Susie than on the Platypus in order to take advantage of the tire clearance;  The Susie is a challenge to fit racks on, and some of the standard Nitto racks won't fit the boss placement  ( I went through this going from a clem to my susie, and ended up needed all-new racks);  Fenders won't be cross- compatible - in fact, I'm having trouble getting ANY fenders to work on my Susie.

I sound like I'm being critical but know that, as I write this, I'm planning to try to get my wife a Susie from the upcoming batch. 

Last thing:  If you do get a Susie, what size would you fit?  I have a large orange and, as fate would  have it, tow of only three standard riv colors that I'd prefer are the dark gold and lime olive.  So it might even be possible to convince me to swap frames with someone once the new batch arrives.....

[Laura B]

iamkeith… thank you for so much content to mull over. It has helped bunches. So many of you have suggested the Clem that I have begun to research it more. It does seem like it would be a nice trail bike for me. And the cost-savings would make combining it with a Platypus feasible.

Does Rivendell ever sell Clem frames instead of the complete builds?

My ideal Susie would probably be a 50cm. Ditto for the Platypus, but I would step up to a 52cm Clem.

[Joe Bernard]

I would recommend looking at the geometry chart on the latest Clem L before committing to a 52. I'm 5'-6", 79-80-ish PBH and even with Boscos that bike would be too stretched out for me. I need a 45. 

Joe Bernard

[Garth]

Laura, trust your first "for whatever reason" instinct about a Susie. 

Laura, I can't tell you how either bike, let alone any bike rides any more than I can tell you how a banana tastes !  You have to eat one to find out. Now I may wax poetic about the taste all day long but that has no influence over how it tastes for you. Trust Truth :-) .  

[Laura B]

Joe: nice heads up… I am shorter then you with a 80-81-ish PBH. Factoring in the long reach on these bikes, the smaller size would be best.

Garth: your advice is stellar. But, is bicycle love prone to flawed radar just like human love? With the Susie, my heart goes thump, thump, thump. But, my inner voice is sending out alarm bells. You are correct that I will never know for certain until I ride one. It is a puzzle worth solving.

Waiting for a new bike might be an extra challenge for me since I have only purchased one new bike in my life! A Schwinn Varsity when I was a teenager. I have always cleaned up something used. I am now 61 and ready for my next bicycle with a modern flare. It is my crazy luck that I decided to shop for a new bike during a bicycle shortage! It turns that warm burning desire into an irrational longing!

[Mr. Ray]

Welcome Laura,

My posts have not been posted by admin so hopefully this one gets through.

The Platypus can only accommodate tires up to 2".  If you plan to do off pavement, I would go for the Longbolts.

On Sunday, December 5, 2021 at 8:08:15 PM UTC-5 me2g...@gmail.com wrote:

[Ryland]

This might be splitting hairs, but Rivendell’s website states that the Platypus can accommodate a 2.2” tire. Additionally, Grant states that “It’s also nimble and more than able for fast fire-road rides with the right tires”.  https://www.rivbike.com/products/frame-platypus-2021

As a Platypus owner myself, I might be biased, but I think if you’re looking for an all-rounder you should hold out for the Platypus.

- Ryland

[Joe Bernard]

Huh, I hadn't noticed the 2.2 reference before. Riv needs to fact-check that page because earlier it states max is 50mm, which is about 1.96 inches. 

[Garth]

Actually is says both 50mm and 2.2"  in the description, plus 48mm with fenders. Actual tire fitting will vary as there is always someone wanting to see how close they can be to the tubes and tire widths vary with rim widths. That's splittin' some split hairs of an seemingly hairy situation .... "Susie loves me, Susie loves me not"..... haha ! Actually neither ! Actual Love isn't double-minded... "not two".... Invisibility.

[Joe Bernard]

I'd stick with the assumption that 50mm is the limit. Platypus started as a road bike with sidepull calipers as the Cheviot, then got an update with v-brakes and a new name. My Riv custom-with-droptube was also designed as primarily a pavement bike and shares the same fork crown*, I'm running 47mm tires with about 3mm of room left. 

*Historical note: My frame was being designed at the same time as the Platypus, I think it's basically a Platy prototype without the curvy mid-stays! 

Joe Bernard

[Laura B]

I would like to add how much this thread has helped me. No one can say if a particular bike will be what another person loves, but feedback helps to clarify what to expect out of the various models.

The Susie could be built as an all-rounder bike but, I am thinking, it would undermine its potential. It is meant to have big tough tires and venture into bumpy terrain. If I got a Susie, I would build it for that purpose.

On the flip side, there are several Rivs that would be perfect for a mix of pavement and smooth trails, without compromising anything. It helps to have realistic expectations and, hopefully, build a bike with fewer re-dos!

I will get a Platypus as my mostly-road bicycle, with hopes to eventually add a Susie or Clem L for maximum off road comfort… :-)

Arrg. More waiting,

[Ray Varella]

No assumptions here. 

55mm Rene Herse knobbies fit the Platypus with ample clearance all around. 

I actually think it’s an ideal sized tire for the bike. 

Fenders with these tires would not be ideal. 

Ray

[Ray Varella]

Laura, 

You don’t mention where you are located, you may be able to locate someone near you for a test ride. 

Ray

Vallejo CA

[iamkeith]

Well, Laura.  I guess there's one more thing to consider, based on Grant's recent blahg, is that the days of both the Susie and fillet brazed construction techniques might be numbered.  I'd hate to have been the one to have discouraged you in the short term, only to make you miss the opportunity forever.

[Fullylugged]

To Doug's comments on Clem L:

I put a local rider with spine issues on one about 2 years ago to suit her need for a comfortable upright ride.  She is mostly on pavement, but some of that is coarse chipseal. We built the bike with Continental "Basketball" tires instead of Schwalbes to get a livelier ride. She has no trouble doing club rides at 18 mph when desired, or tooling on gravel at under 10 mph. It's been a winner all around and of course, Clem is one of Rivs more reasonably prices models. Leah who posted about her Platypus also has a Clem L and enjoys it as well, though not as much as her Platy, I think.

To the earlier comment about most rivs riding anywhere:  

Yes, The "Adventure bike" zeitgeist of :any bike, any road is fully embraced by rivendell. All models have limits and some do one thing or another better than something else, but you can't go wrong with any Rivendell of any era.  I have a 1995 Road model. With gravel tires on, it does that just fine. With fat road tires, it handles all the surfaces I am likely to be on. Of my 4 bikes, it is the one that gets most of the miles every year.

Bruce

[Leah Peterson]

To FURTHER foul up the decision-making process, did you all read in Grant’s Blahg  that they are working on the Roscopus? See below:

3. Rosco-Plats: Like the Platypus, but less lugged, and with 100 percent straight, strong, safe, beautiful CLEM forks that just happened to have the threaded rack bosses mis-drilled ever so slightly, to the extent that we couldn't sell them as perfect, but their flub is visual only, and we're getting deals on them and so designed frames around them, and the frames are gonna be fantastic and inexpensive by our standards. Think Platypus-Clem offspring.

Decisions, decisions, Laura! What will you do now?

Leah

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 12, 2021, at 6:16 AM, Fullylugged <bruce.h...@gmail.com> wrote:

To Doug's comments on Clem L:

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[Laura]

iamkeith, no worries… in my angst-filled journey of new bicycle calculations, many factors have influenced me.

Leah… I favor lugs & fillet brazing! For me, it is an investment worth making.

In my humble peanut gallery opinion, they should have made the differences between the Gus & Susie models more distinct. To compliment Gus, the Susie would have benefited if it had step-thru qualities and a lower bottom bracket. Making it a leisure-minded trail bike with hand-crafted goodness.

I hope Rivendell creates another fillet brazed bike in the future. Trying to sell these unique frames must be extra difficult during Covid chaos.

[Garth]

Laura , the reason the Gus and Susie Longbolts are so similar is because they are of the same blueprint, with slightly\ lighter tubing and a threaded stem denoting the Susie. If one wants a step-thru Riv has other bikes, or have a custom made. I know people balk at customs because of the price, but looking at stock frames, seeing what you don't want and then criticizing them for it, and wishing/demanding they make it stock.... that seems a way of placing responsibility where it doesn't belong. I've seen it countless times. 

That nature of the names though are a Riv reader contribution contest. Susie Longbolts/Wolbis Slugstone came from a set of certain letter arranged by readers. There was no gender intention involved or implied.  What's in name anyways ?  A "Boy named Sue ?" ... that famous Johnny Cash song .... ask him what it's about ! Hahahaha !!!!  As with any bike, it's not it's paint on the surface, it's not the letters on the paint that make or break it.... it's the bike in whole that is everything. 

[iamkeith]

I didn't take Laura's comments as "criticism" of the Susie design.  But Garth is right about it just being a light version of the gus.  I almost got the feeling that it was an afterthought.  Like they knew they needed a  1 1/8" headset and a reasonably heavy duty tubeset if Gus was going to be abused as a mountain bike and/or loaded up for off-road touring, but couldn't quite get comfortable with the compromises those decisions required.  So they decided to do a limited run of light versions,  just to scratch the itch.  And left the naming to happenstance.   I'm glad it wasn't the case but, if anything, I could have seen the Susie/Wolbis version having a high/straight top tube to improve triangulation in compensation for the lighter tubes.  They were initially very cautious about who they said could or should have one but, since it worked out and ended up being stronger than they expected, it sounds like it's surviving for another round.  At one point, they said future rounds of hillibikes might be tig welded, so these new(final) ones being fillet brazed is already a bonus.  I don't know why they plan to end it altogether,  but that's pretty common with Rivendell.  When you find one that you like AND that fits, there'll often be regrets if you don't seize the opportunity while you can.

I too think a custom riv is probably the best way to go, but you'd really have to know what you want.  In the meantime, every bike you own is an opportunity to learn and narrow it down and find out what works.

[Laura]

Garth… I hope my post did not read as demanding or complaining! It was meant as a thoughtful opinion, especially in light of the Gus/Susie possible demise. Riv has begun to make less expensive tig-welded frames in large part, I assume, because people requested them. Enough customer opinions resulted in new stock. I wanted to show support for more variety within the HILLIBIKE category. And my appreciation for fillet brazed and lugged frames.

[Joe Bernard]

Laura, you're just expressing thoughts and opinions like everybody else. Garth is weirdly targeing you and needs to knock it off. 

Joe Bernard

[Garth]

Well Laura, In the art of communication I swear it's miracle we understand anything at all about anyone and anything !  Hence, I find the idea that we ought. should, could or would  know just the perfect thing to say at all times, "or else" we either play the part of the mis-understand-er or the mis-understood. It's akin to darned if you do and darned if you don't ..... where you're darned no matter what you say or do seems the standard bearer. Well that's just silly, it's no standard at all !

My comment was about the nature of the Susie design to begin with in response to musing about the Susie being a step-thru. That's all. It was no "attack" for goodness sake as Joe assumes. My comment about Riv buyers not getting what they want for a certain stock price was not a personal pointing at you rather a generalized comment that I've seen it many times.

[Laura]

I did use the word “should” which are fighting words! Yes, I was describing a very non-Susie bike. For that, I stand corrected. But, I am someone that longed for a Susie for months only to pass on a purchase. It is impossible to play mental gymnastics without visualizing the bike I would want to buy… I seem to want Clem and Susie to get together and have a kid!

[Garth]

Hey Joe ......It's all fun and games when it's "Party on Garth ",  right Joe ?  

You see, I don't know if your being sarcastic, endearing, an ass or a saint when you say that. So for examples sake I ask .... "Why are you targeting me, do you think I like it ?  Do you think I find it endearing, do I find it funny ?"

You see how that goes .... just what did he mean by that comment ?

Where does one begin and where does one end ? How far do we take it ? Does anyone ever know what anyone really means or do we pretend to based on our personal biases and assumptions ? 

Just some thoughts ...

[Patrick Moore]

Tangential, but this is very interesting, since I too find that certain "fast" bikes are heavier ones; this all-round and not merely on hills. Was it here or on the boblist that there was a recent thread about what makes a bike "fast"? At any rate, IME, it's not at all just weight. (Judging "fast" by repeated ease in repeated conditions over considerable periods of turning a higher gear with the same effort as or even less than on a "slower" bike in a lower gear.)

Me, I think fit and suitability of geometry to one's body and riding style play a role; and of course, tires ...

[Patrick Moore]

"He delighted to tread upon the brink of meaning."

Sorry, Garth, couldn't resist, just yanking your chain; and I do read your posts instead of deleting them with the huge swathes of posts I delete from all lists every day.

Back to regular programming.

(The text is from Dr. Johnson reviewing some novelist.)

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/7b3184b1-13d8-4fca-b562-782af59a3b3fn%40googlegroups.com.

--

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

[Patrick Moore]

Sorry, life of Dryden.

[Joe Bernard]

I still think you're on the right track with a Platypus. I can't remember if I posted a pic of my custom in this thread so if I did, here's another look! 🙂 My design criteria for Grant was a mostly-pavement frame with v-brakes, and a low step-over that could handle less than touring loads and less than gnarly trail riding. It's fairly light, quite zippy and has lugs as far as the eyes can see. I think you're looking for the same ride qualities and - from what I've heard Leah say about hers - the Platy fits that bill closely. With lugs!

Joe Bernard

[Doug H.]

Leah is the utmost authority on Platypus vs Clem L so take her words as certain as much as one can knowing we all seem to get something unique from the same bicycle. I had the chance to buy a Platypus but decided to get the Clem L for two reasons...cost and style. I just prefer the Clem lines. I would bet the Platypus will be around for a few years and if the Susie is on the last run buy that one. If you don't like it the resale value is superb and then you can get a Platypus in 2022.

This is a fun thread to follow as I like bicycle shopping even when I don't plan to buy one. ;-)

Doug

[Mr. Ray]

1" is 25.4mm.

[bruce.h...@gmail.com]

Ah yes, Rivendell models come and go with great frequency. I tell people, if you see what you like, buy it. Chances are it won't be there later. Some models were made in more quantity so your chances at a resale are better.  Some are very scarce. 

To Doug's comment, I would reply, if you think you want a Susie, get it. If you think a Clem or a Platy, or a Cheviot or a Betty Foy or any other model is more your cup of tea, let it slide.   YMMV

Bruce

On Sunday, December 12, 2021, 04:12:18 PM CST, Doug H. <dhansf...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Joe Bernard]

Color matters, too. The new/last Susie run will be in Dark Gold and LimeOlive and hoo buddy those are pretty colors! 

[Garth]

(    (   (   (   Laughing with delight on the brink of meaning ..... at least of the human variety !  )  )   )   ) 

I do find the quote hilarious and am in no way oh-fended at all by your use of it ! I cannot disagree with it.   I'm sure you can relate in some way lest the phrase even come to your remembrance in the first place.

[Roberta]

Oh, boy, am I enjoying this thread.   Laura, our stories are similar and I was in your position just 4 1/2 years ago.  We are the same age.  Feel free to jump to executive summary, for those of you who know my story.

Background:

In HS, I bought a bike in '75 or so (perhaps the same model that you bought) and rode that happily, except for the frequency of flat tires, until it got stolen in 1990.  Then I bought a Specialized Hard Rock, a mountain bike with wider tires.   It was perfect for the poorly maintained streets of the city,  and I rode that for 30 years until I finally admitted to myself that although I liked riding, I didn't love riding that mountain bike as a road bike.   The search was on and I found Rivendell and this group.

I had no preconceptions of which Riv I wanted.  I tested a Cheviot, a Sam Hillborne, an Atlantis.  I asked the people on the list.   Someone suggested the Joe Appaloosa, which is what I eventually bought and rode with dizzying happiness for 3 1/2 years.  That was an investment that bought me more joy than I imagined.

I bought an used A Homer Hilsen to keep at my office so I could ride the Joe A at home on the weekends and the AHH during the week at work.  I was in cycling heaven.

Then, the Platypus happened.  I wanted a step thru for my retirement bike a few years into the future.   I heeded the groups advice:  If you see a bike you want, buy it, because there is no guarantee it will be available when your time frame comes.

As much as I loved the Joe A, that was the one I sold because I never rode the trails or did touring that would make its ride shine the most--I ride MUPS and paved trails mostly.

Executive Summary:

Buy the bike you really want for the job you want to use it for, when the bike is available.  Listen to your heart.

I bought the Platy because it was available "today,"  even though my time frame was three years out.  I put 43cm barely aggressive tires on my Platy, because I see it as a sleek road bike, but if I want to rode on dirt packed paths, I can. (AHH has Gravel King slicks.)   If you want a mostly road bike that can go onto packed paths, a Platy with wider 48-50's) more aggressive tires will fit the bill.  If you want more of a bike that goes on unpaved paths mostly, get the Suzie.

Not unimportant, you'll be able to buy a Suzie years before Platys might be back in stock.   Whatever Riv's good intentions for promise dates are, much is out of their control.  I think I waited about 9 months past the expected due date of my Platy.    I see the Suzie/Platy as very complimentary bikes, much more so than my AHH/Platy.  BTW, if you want one bike and don't mind a diamond frame, I think the Joe Appaloosa is worth considering.

Here's the good news:  With Rivendells, there isn't a bad choice.  You could sell a bike that no longer fits your needs and sometimes get lucky on a used one someone else is selling. 

I look forward to seeing pictures of you and your bike when you get it.

Roberta

[Nathan F]

Just to put the final nail in the Platypus tire clearance debate's coffin: I'm running the same 2.2" tires as Ray Varella, tubeless, and they fit great with plenty of mud clearance. I'm not going to take a picture, you'll just have to believe us! Those Herse tires are the perfect Platypus tires for mixed surface riding. 

Personally, I'd only get a Gus / Susie if I absolutely needed a big MTB tire. That would be riding trails, and by that I mean single track, not unpaved paths and gravel roads, 95% of the time. 

If you'd only like a 2.2" max, get a Platypus or a Clem!

Nathan in pdx 

[Laura]

Roberta, I loved reading about your path to a Rivendell. I currently have a vintage Specialized HardRock, but I am switching over to an ’86 Diamondback Ascent, which is a much nicer frame. It will serve as a great trail bike for now. I grew tired of vintage road bikes with limited tire clearance, which is why I originally looked into Rivendell. Susie has been a wonderful distraction, but I am content to wait for a Platypus. I like that my first Riv bike will be a distinctly Rivendell-ish ride.

Of course, there is always the possibility I will press the BUY button on a Susie in a fit of extravagance!!! Stay tuned…

[iamkeith]

Laura, regarding susie v vintage mtb:  I posted these somewhere about a year ago in response to somebody's questions, but they might be appropriate again.  Here are shots comparing my susie to one of my old NORBA era bikes.  While suited for the same terrain, they are remarkably different.  You can almost feel the difference just looking.  Your '89 model is probably a bit less like a road bike in handling because that was the cusp of when mtbs went all-in on the twitchy race geometry, but it'll still be more similar to this MB-1 than the Susie.  I still have several old 26" mtbs, that I kept riding but, at some point around the mid 2010s after getting used to longer and slacker bikes, it became difficult for me to think of them as anything other than funny looking but really good road bikes.

There's also this hillibike introductory talk from Grant where, about 1/2 hour in, he mentions that the fillet brazing was selected  in large part just to distinguish it from a Clem and make it  more premium, and that they'd otherwise be too similar.   That sort of contradicts what I said above  about them feeling so different - so it's possible that my experience (and high center of gravity that is my chief complaint) is altered by my ginormous 2 8 tires and by still having bars with too much rise, making me sit too upright.  

https://youtu.be/diTTqXluBEw

Sorry to continue muddling the decision process.  Now that I've chimed in with advice, I feel somehow obligated to be as thorough as possible lest I steer you wrong.

[iamkeith]

[iamkeith]

[Laura]

iamkeith… I actually came across that photo when researching Riv Bikes. As they say, a picture is worth a thousand words. I have also watched the Grant presentation twice! I do not compare my vintage ’86 MTB to a Susie in ride quality, just that I own a vintage ’86 MTB and I can make into a nice trail bike. Life is full of compromises.

BUT, you bring up excellent points! A small Susie with 650B tires is a smaller bike all-around. I might fit ‘into’ the bike just fine.

I will need lots of fresh air and exercise this week…

On Monday, December 13, 2021 at 11:15:47 AM UTC-5 iamkeith wrote:

[upyou...@yahoo.com]

Hi Laura,

I just wanted to chime in with my experience so far.  I never sat on a Rivendell until I unboxed my new 50 Mermaid Platy (PBH 80).  I have Rene Herse 48's on it and ride the bike on NJ roads (huge potholes and glass), up and down curbs, across grass parks, gravel towpaths, roots and rocky paths even chunky hand sized rocky roads.  It handles like a dream and I love everything about it.  It's gorgeous, the color is amazing and I can't even think of a reason to have another bike at this time.  It's set up with a rack in the back for panniers so I can do some light touring but I'm mostly on roads.

You have many good suggestions.  Roberta and Leah both mentioned that you could pick up a Suzie now and get a Platy later.  Not a bad idea if you want to get on one now.  

I had no idea what I was missing all these years.  Rivendell bikes are SWEEET.  I'm in love.

Honeymooning in New Jersey...Kate

[Chris Halasz]

Laura

I'm going to echo Kate's experience: Just bought a Platy, and it's amazing. 

I had the privilege of visiting RBW in November when we took a trip up the coast, after owning a half dozen of their bikes, and got to ride a couple of Grant's bikes. I loved the MIT Atlantis, but was thinking the Clem was the better bike for me. It rode great. I did not ride, but I did look closely at Will's Gus (or Susie). I used to race mountain bikes, but pretty much limit my off-roading to hikes in the Los Padres hills near to our home. The Gus/Susie looked like more bike than I would need. Having said that, I love the design of the Susie, at least as much as the Platypus, and my first MTB was a filleted-by-Tom Ritchey. I love that bike, but know I don't need the tire clearance it offers. 

I'd read somewhere on this group that someone preferred a front load on their Platypus over their Susie, and that's a big selling point to me. I have a hitchhiker who tags along when I ride alone, as you can see in the photos. 

I was going to give the thumbs up on a Clem with Will, and then thought what the heck, I'll check Craigslist as long as we're in Sonoma - and there was a Platypus for sale. I got there as quick as I could, rode it, and bought it right away. It has the most wonderful and lively and predictable ride. Gobsmacked. 

The roads I ride on can be a little rough (only on the Santa Barbara side of the city - they are of course pristine over in Montecito), and the 48mm tires are more than enough to accommodate the chipseal (again, see the photos). I love the low bottom bracket, the chainstay length, and it is the most beautiful bike I've ever seen. 

So that's why *I* selected the Platypus, and it's a marvel of design. I'm sure the Susie is the same for its intended purpose, and if I lived where the trails were a little wider, and a little less rocky and steep, I'd be in your dilemma. 

You're going to love whichever one you get, and we all look forward to the photos. 

Cheers, 

Chris 

SB, CA

[Leah Peterson]

Chris, 

I love it so much. The dog, the bike, the story. 

I agree that there is something special about a Platypus, and really, the Rivendell mixtes as a group. I so rarely see them re-sold; mostly people hang onto them; occasionally I will see one re-sold because it was purchased for a spouse and it isn’t being ridden. There is a certain pixie dust the elves at Rivendell infuse in the mixte frames, and they are rarely parted with! You are so fortunate to have found one for sale. 

I took my Platypus out exploring the new neighborhood (we just moved across the country a few days ago) and it was such a comfort to have this familiar, gorgeous creature accompany me on my new adventure.

Laura, I wish you an orange Platypus!

Leah

On Dec 18, 2021, at 1:32 PM, Chris Halasz <cha...@gmail.com> wrote:

Laura

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[upyou...@yahoo.com]

Oh My, I love the dog, the bike, and the story too.

What a time you will have.  Sooooo happy for you.  It is a special 'pixie dust' indeed!!!!!  

Many happy miles of riding is my wish for you and your friend!

Love, Kate
I rode 25 miles along the New Jersey coast yesterday and had a smile the entire time.

[Laura]

Thanks for the continued feedback. I took my dog out on a long hike during the Susie presale! I was relieved that the smalls sold out before I got back home. I did not want the temptation!

I am looking forward to a Platypus. It is nice to have plenty of time to collect all of the components I will need. I wish they would announce colors for the next shipment in advance!!!

[sam.per...@gmail.com]

Is the Susie better suited for rear loading? I tend to do front loading for ease of access. Has anyone experienced a front loaded susie over road/lumpy trails.

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 19, 2021, at 6:51 AM, Laura <me2g...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Roberta]

Laura,

I think you'll be very happy--it rides so well.  Perhaps, now that there is so much information on this thread especially from Kate and Chris, my next set of tires might be 48's.  That will further help distinguish my two bikes.  I just love my Platy!

Roberta