Roadini Build - Mix of Modern and Retro

[Jason M]

First post here!  I've been reading some of the threads and this sounds like a good place...my new happy place ;-)

I ordered the dark gold Roadini (57) from the only shop in Canada that sells Riv (C&L Cycles) and will be picking it up in a few weeks when I'll be visiting Montreal.

Looking for this to be a project bike, that evolves over time.  For now though, I had a lot of new / lightly used parts on hand, so I'll be using those and having the bike shop supply the rest (including some handbill wheels for some lightly used 43mm GKSS tires I'm using on my Fargo in the winter).  Build will be Shimano 11sp, with DT shifters and Tektro RRL brake levers, and Tektro brakes.

Purpose of the bike is all-road (where I live, a lot of that is paved, but there are gravel roads further out), but will not be used much on local mixed-surface trails (where the Fargo excels).  My current road bike will be jealous, but I'm not kicking her to the curb just yet!

Photos to come in February.  

[Brenton Eastman]

Looking forward to updates! I just built a Roadini as well.

[Chris Fly]

Just curious, if you are using 11sp, why not use integrated shifters/levers? To each their own for sure, but I can't imagine DT shifters on a mixed-surface trail unless it's really smooth.. heck, I don't even care for bar-ends on a trail.. but those RRL levers are super nice! 

I'm leaning hard into a Roadini that I may put a Campy 10 Triple group I have on it.. 

Chris 

On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 10:33:55 AM UTC-8 Jay wrote:

[Jay]

I hear you 'fourflys', I was undecided before going with the DT and the RRSL levers.  My Fargo has brifters and on the mixed-surface, often technical trails I ride, it's very handy.  My road bike has brifters.  I decided I wanted to try something different, plus I like the idea of them being friction, and the simplicity of them (oh, and the lower cost, as I didn't have brifters on hand, like I did other parts).  I had DT shifters on a bike I built up around 10 years ago and liked them.  This bike will mainly be ridden on paved roads, and occasional gravel roads and rail trails (80/20), so I'm sure it will be fine.  But once I ride it, we'll see how I adjust.

[Chris Fly]

I can see that.. 

Looking forward to the build! 

Chris

[Piaw Na]

I went with 11s and a single DT shifter (I'm running 1x11) and I treat my Roadini as a gravel bike. It's great. Usually I climb on the road so shifting is not a problem, and descending who cares what gears you're in. But on the few occasions I did a a dirt climb and I'd just shift into the lowest gear and stay there. My goal for the Roadini was to make it as light as possible (given the relatively heavy frame) while still able to do hard climbs. It hasn't disappointed.

[Patrick Moore]

Piaw: I'm curious, how light is your Roadini?

More general question to the audience: How does the current Roadini differ from the original Sam Hillborne? I owned one of the latter and it would be interesting to use this Sam as a gauge for understanding the Roadini.

Aside: I'm thinking (just thinking; action may come but later) of turning that Libertas into an on-and-offroad beater because I think it will take a 38 mm tire. The original issue Sam was limited to IIRC 38 or 40 mm tires so I hope that this might be a more nimble handling and lighter (and beater-sh) Sam surrogate.

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[Piaw Na(藍俊彪)]

It weighed 23 pounds with pump, water bottle cage, pedals but no toolkit: https://blog.piaw.net/2022/10/putting-together-my-roadini.html

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[Jay]

While I'm not concerned with the weight I'll land on after the build, I would like to keep up with my friend who I ride weekly with.  He's good going my speed (he's naturally faster), and I'm hoping the speed on this bike isn't much lower than my current road bike.  Like many say, it's the total weight including the rider that counts...so I started eating better since ordering the frame to see if total weight is the same, or better!  I do have a second wheel set I'm planning to use, occasionally, and those wheels together with then 30mm tires will be lighter, and have better hubs (will be interesting to see how they feel when riding compared to the other wheels with 43mm GKSS).

[Tony Lockhart]

@Patrick - Leo is a bit more nimble and rigid to a comparably spec'd Sam. Sam seems a bit more flexy, especially with out of the seat climbing. Seems like the Sam is all over the place when it comes to steering--my Leo seems to track way better at low speeds. For context, I've had a million setups on my Sam during the last 14 years and it's currently running a flat bar, 2x8 setup, on 44mm RH tires. My Leo is running a drop bar, 3x8 setup, and 32mm Pasela TGs.....38mm Shikoros arriving this Wednesday. Sam used to have the same parts currently on the Leo. I think the differences are very slight....both bikes are amazing.

@Jay - Congrats on the purchase--you picked a winner. Like you, I also purchased a dark gold 57cm frame. I couldn't be happier. Leo is a champ.

[Jay]

The build is complete!  This is iteration 1a.  1b will occur later this week when I get a new seat post, with 0 setback; and a different stem, 10mm shorter and less rise (that should be very close to the fit I'm looking for on this bike...saddle not at the end of the max line on the rails, as I want it around 5mm closer, then up 1-2mm, and I want to rotate the bars forward a bit to get a better hand position on the hoods).

Shout out to C&L Cycles in Montreal, Quebec (Canada).  Very helpful and patient with me (e.g., getting the bar tape and gel pad dialled in after good discussion).  For any Canadian's out there, definitely check them out for your Riv needs (and thoughtful selection of other bikes, components and accessories).

Colour: It was a difficult call between this and Sergio Green.  I'm happy with my choice in the end.  I like the gum hoods, though I initially wanted the black/silver and thought would go well with brown bar tape; maybe in a future iteration.  I didn't like the look of these gum hoods with black bar tape, and I've always had black, so I wanted something different that compliments the hoods and looks nice against the frame.  This Fizik tape was the best (to me) of what I had looked at.  A shade darker would have been good, but this colour is growing on me.  When it gets a bit dirty and I think it will improve!  I bet the crank would like sweet in silver...I'll leave that for a future iteration, as I wanted to use what I already owned (I ticked this box in spades).

Build: I wont list out everything as most are clear from the photos below.  Wheels are handbuilt; I've had a set of these previously and really liked them.  I had the tires already (GKSS 43mm) and they were great on this initial ride (mainly paved, with some gravel that was ride-able); they measure 42.2, and there was plenty more room on the front but not much in the back for anything larger, but these were fine.  I had DT shifters on a bike 10 years ago and really enjoyed using them, and I really liked them on today's ride.  I'll save the rest of the parts for below.  I will add though that I have a second wheel set that I'm going to set up with 30mm fast rubberier road rides to see if I can keep up with my buddy who is faster than me (more to come on this!).

The Ride: like wow!  So much to say, I'm going to forget a whole bunch of things I thought of during the 2hr ride.  I'll compare to the Surly Cross Chek I had over a year ago and my Salsa Fargo (replaced the CC, and I love it for unpaved).  Carrying the bike upstairs for the first ride, was much lighter than I thought (I have zero complaints with the weight).  Minor fit issues aside (soon to be resolved, hopefully), the ride was so smooth, maybe the smoothest bike I've ever had.   I had these tires on the Fargo up to now, and over the same surfaces the Roadini really smoothed out the cracks in the pavement, as well as the trails (I felt like I had a little suspension).  One of the reasons I initially looked at this bike as an option for a 3rd bike was that the Fargo with 43mm for winter and anytime the road bike wouldn't cut it, was not very enjoyable (harsh, squirly streeing, sluggish).  With 2.2's it is amazing and I love it on the trails where I live, but as an all-road / distance bike, I didn't enjoy it.  Enter the Roadini.  When I stood up to sprint or climb up a hill, it accelerated way better than the Fargo, and a bit better from the CC from what I recall.  I was, again, pleasantly surprised with how fast I was moving.  Cornering was predictable and neither sluggish or squirly, it just went where I wanted to go with minimal input...while holding its line predictably.  The DT shifters were fun.  A couple of times I tried to shift with the brake lever and remembered that's a different bike!  Shifting was very light touch and I quickly realized this, as I would easily shift two gears when not wanting to...by the end of the ride I felt 75% comfortable using them (and this will only improve).  Brake levers felt very good, and the braking power was also very good.  I have Ultergra R8000 brakes on my road bike and they are amazing (power and modulation).  These are a notch below, but very effective...and they easily clear 43mm tires so who needs discs?!  I love my discs on the Fargo, in mud/dirt, but the Roadini does not need discs at all (where I live/ride).  I'm so happy to have a rim brake bike that fits 43mm tires.  The bars (Whiskey 12F) and 3mm bar tape with gel pad under was perfect for my hands.  I like cush, and this set up is really good (for me).  The mechanic dialled in the wrap and gel placement with these hoods.  The 30F/32R gearing is perfect for the steepest hills where this bike will be ridden.  I've went on long enough so I'll stop there.  Word of the day - "smooth" :-)

[Patrick Moore]

Congratulations; it's always a great blessing when a much anticipated new bike not only meets but exceeds expectations.

You noted the wholly trouble-free cornering; IME, that's a Grant-design feature; all of my 5 Rivs have exhibited this, tho' some were considerably quicker handling than others -- 26" custom wheel road bikes with very light wheels made the Ram feel a bit staid and the Sam rather slow -- neither sluggish, but just staid; but all 5 transitioned from straight to turn with absolutely no hesitation or over-eagerness; well, the 1995 26" custom was twitchier and with 23 mm tires was a bit over-eager, but with 32s it was fine. (I am hugely grateful that Chauncey Matthews managed to more or less match that handling, with both the fat-tire "road bike for dirt"  -- once I installed the Soma SV 50s --and the 26" wheel IGH road bike cloned from the 2003 road custom.)

Fargo harshness: I liked my 2010 Fargo a lot, but yep, way overbuilt, particularly the fork. I recall swapping the wheels from the Fargo -- same tires too -- onto the Matthews "rbfd" and immediately noticing that the bike rode more smoothly over washboard and suchlike -- since the stays are ~45 cm and the geometry is not hugely different, I attribute the difference to the tubing and especially to the svelte fork (disc) with slender, "French curve" legs.

Note, as I just mentioned in another thread, that if you ever need more room for fenders on the Roadini, don't fail to consider top-quality, forged single pivots like the Royal Grand Comps on sale here recently. IME, while they don't grab as hard as dual pivots they stop plenty well with, at least, Shimano aero (non-STI) levers and salmon pads, and they clear fatter fenders without the same interference as the DPs.

[Piaw Na]

Any chance you can post a picture of the rear brake and the tire clearance (if any)?

I've been experimenting with the Ass Saver Win Wing Gravel (found someone selling them on ebay for $10), and I have to say that it works surprisingly well. Easy-on Easy-off. Won't protect your BB bearings but since I'm getting around 25K miles on the BB bearings anyway I'm fine with that.

[Jay]

I think I finally landed on a saddle, and stem.  I've been trying to find a more comfortable saddle on all bikes for a while now.  I tried the C17 on my Salsa and it was very good.  Bought one in orange for the Roadini and I think it looks decent.  Two 1.5hr rides and can confirm it's comfortable.  I ordered a -17 degree stem as I'm using 31.8 bars and a stem adaptor, and knew where I wanted the bars located and this stem worked out well.  Hopefully this is it for a while!

If I could go back I would change a few things aesthetically, but not the parts themselves -- bike rides really nice and I feel good during and after the ride.

[Collin A]

Jay,

Looks awesome! The dark gold and celeste/seafoam bar tape is a combo I didn't think would look good, but I'm a fan!

If you want a more svelte headset solution you can try one of these out:  innicycle - Threadless Conversion Headset™

I used one on an old trek conversion years ago and it worked great.

Collin in Bezerkely

[Chris Fly]

Velo Orange also makes a 31.8 removable clamp quill stem that works pretty well, I have one of my AHH.. but I like your solution as well! 

https://velo-orange.com/collections/quill-stems/products/quill-stem-with-removable-faceplate-31-8mm?variant=52981508999

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Be the Reason Others Succeed!

[Jay]

First ride with the second wheel set.  

Bike was built up with 43mm GKSS and that is great on mixed roads/surfaces.  We had a lot of rain last two days and I knew I was only going to be on paved roads today, so I finally mounted these new tires and a cassette on the second wheel set (I've owned these wheels for a really long time, and they were collecting dust, so I was happy to put them into the rotation).  The shop who built up the bike was aware of the second wheel set and their external rim width, and helped dial in the brakes so I could swap wheels with minimal fuss.  I turned the barrel adjuster until the pads were nicely spaced on the narrower wheels, and I only had to tweak the position of one brake pad.  Really happy with the minimal fuss!

I rode 50k with 500m of elevation, didn't push it, and was about as fast as my dedicated road bike with 25mm tires.  I like my position on this bike and felt great during the ride and after.  That was really good news for me, as I was hoping this bike can do long road rides, offering the additional comfort and steadiness over my road bike.  Box checked!

[Piaw Na(藍俊彪)]

I think the Roadini is the one bike in my garage that's the "quiver killer." It's so versatile it could easily handle everything my mountain bike, touring bike, and any kind of road riding I wanted to do. It's fast and the extra tire clearance means that an extra set of wheels is all that's necessary to go from "1990s MTB" to "1990s Road Bike." But it rides so much nicer than a 1990s MTB, and the tire clearance means it goes places the 1990s Road bike can't go.

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[Patrick Moore]

Nice Roadini, lovely build, and I'm glad it has turned out so well for you. The Roadini certainly gets high praise from high-mileage riders.

Roadini:Fargo:Cross Check: interesting observations. One might thing that with fat, low pressure tires the frame and fork won't materially affect ride smoothness, but I had a somewhat similar experience when I replaced my (2010??) steel Fargo with the current 2016 Matthews "road bike for dirt." Both take 60s with fenders, both had the same ultra-extra-light-and-supple 450-gram 60 mm Big Ones on the same Velocity Blunt SS rims, but I immediately noticed that with these wheels, the Matthews smoothed out stutter bumps and felt definitely smoother than the same wheels/tires on the Fargo. The Fargo is overbuilt of course, and the fork is hugely overbuilt, while the Matthews is built of OS but thinwall tubing with a fork that has slender, nicely "French curve" legs (discs; nope, no problems). 

Meandering on re: Fargo: I had a second wheelset with ~33 mm Kojaks; the Fargo handled -- well, not like a Rivendell, but decently; the 1.35 Kojaks made it quicker in turns but didn't harm stability, at least, I didn't notice it. But really, the Big Ones rolled much better on pavement than the Kojaks, decent tho' the Kojaks are.

Back to the Roadini: I've been told by several people, talking about the Roadeo, when I was thinking of getting one, that it had tubing too stout and stiff for good road bike feel. And doesn't the Roadini have stouter tubing yet? So to hear such praise for the Roadini tells me, I think, that the difference between stout, stiff tubing and thinwall, normal diameter tubing is by no means the main factor in smoothness and "liveliness." Again and again, experienced riders praise the low-budget Clem for its liveliness and smoothness. And yet, that 2003 Rivendell Curt custom Road was too stiff, compared to the thinner wall, normal gauge Matthews clone that replaced it -- my quads proved it. Upshot: I don't understand all this.

Long ago on the thread, Jay <jason....@gmail.com> wrote:

The Ride: like wow!  So much to say, I'm going to forget a whole bunch of things I thought of during the 2hr ride.  I'll compare to the Surly Cross Chek I had over a year ago and my Salsa Fargo (replaced the CC, and I love it for unpaved).  Carrying the bike upstairs for the first ride, was much lighter than I thought (I have zero complaints with the weight).  Minor fit issues aside (soon to be resolved, hopefully), the ride was so smooth, maybe the smoothest bike I've ever had.   I had these tires on the Fargo up to now, and over the same surfaces the Roadini really smoothed out the cracks in the pavement, as well as the trails (I felt like I had a little suspension).  One of the reasons I initially looked at this bike as an option for a 3rd bike was that the Fargo with 43mm for winter and anytime the road bike wouldn't cut it, was not very enjoyable (harsh, squirly streeing, sluggish).  With 2.2's it is amazing and I love it on the trails where I live, but as an all-road / distance bike, I didn't enjoy it.  Enter the Roadini.  When I stood up to sprint or climb up a hill, it accelerated way better than the Fargo, and a bit better from the CC from what I recall.  I was, again, pleasantly surprised with how fast I was moving.  Cornering was predictable and neither sluggish or squirly, it just went where I wanted to go with minimal input...while holding its line predictably.  The DT shifters were fun.  A couple of times I tried to shift with the brake lever and remembered that's a different bike!  Shifting was very light touch and I quickly realized this, as I would easily shift two gears when not wanting to...by the end of the ride I felt 75% comfortable using them (and this will only improve).  Brake levers felt very good, and the braking power was also very good.  I have Ultergra R8000 brakes on my road bike and they are amazing (power and modulation).  These are a notch below, but very effective...and they easily clear 43mm tires so who needs discs?!  I love my discs on the Fargo, in mud/dirt, but the Roadini does not need discs at all (where I live/ride).  I'm so happy to have a rim brake bike that fits 43mm tires.  The bars (Whiskey 12F) and 3mm bar tape with gel pad under was perfect for my hands.  I like cush, and this set up is really good (for me).  The mechanic dialled in the wrap and gel placement with these hoods.  The 30F/32R gearing is perfect for the steepest hills where this bike will be ridden.  I've went on long enough so I'll stop there.  Word of the day - "smooth" :-)

Patrick Moore, grimly bottom-trimming in ABQ, NM. 

[Josh (BertoBerg)]

Hi Jay-

Lovin’ the build! Thanks for sharing your impressions. The orange paint with the green bar tape looks great. 

I just put 32mm Corsa Pros on my Waterford Homer. I’ve only ever ridden it on 38mm+ gravel tires so I’m super excited to feel what it’s like on a more road-oriented tire.

Have fun out there!

Josh

Seattle, WA

[Richard Rose]

Patrick, I humbly suggest that the Clem (and apparently Roadini) “liveliness & smoothness” you reference & that I can attest to is due to geometry rather than the tubing spec. As I am typing this I am recalling that Richard Sachs for a long time not only refused to use tubing stickers but did not even like to talk about tubing selections. When asked which tubes he used his frequent response was “the right ones”. This of course was prior to the “Pego Richie” tubing era. I distinctly remember my Clem L test ride, several years after selling my Sachs. In spite of the radically different position of the Clem my very first thought was “I’ve got my Sachs back”.

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 15, 2024, at 9:42 PM, Patrick Moore <bert...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Jay]

I wanted to circle back and close out initial impressions on my Roadini.  I used it on a road ride with my friend today.  I put on the 2nd wheelset, that has Vittoria Corsa Pro 30mm tires.  My friend is faster and when we ride together he dials it back, and I push harder than I usually do, and it works out and we have good rides.  I was worried that the extra weight (4-5 pounds) and more upright posture would hold be back, so I warned him in advance.  I felt really comfortable on the entire 2.5 ride, including a headwind on our way back.  I used the drops quite a bit, in part because they're very comfortable.  I felt really good and was pleasantly surprised that we probably had our fastest average on those roads.  Well done Leo!