Saddle-to-bar comfort: a bare 1/4”!

[Patrick Moore]

The 1999 Joe Starck Riv road custom has for >25 years been my Platonic archetype of bicycle fit and feel, and my body, torso and shoulders and arms and hands, in particular, just fit “instinctively: reasonable bend for power and aero, easy to use hooks and hoods and flats. One just “falls into” the right position.

So I try to set up all my other bikes to mimic that fit and feel, and I’ve pretty much succeeded with the Matthews road bike for dirt and the Roadeo, despite a ~3-4 cm higher bar and 10 cm stem on the dirt road Matthews, and a much different stem — 90 mm, + 30* — on the Roadeo, versus 80 mm, 3-4 cm below saddle, for the Starck.

The 2020 Matthews IGH fixed gear road bike is a geometric clone of the ’99, but despite using the same seatposts, saddles, stems, bar, brake levers dialed in exactly the same way, so I thought, the reach just felt a wee bit too long.

This once again annoyed me on today’s errand ride, so after some more compulsive measuring I decided that I’d missed the exact bar/stem height by a couple of mm, and raised the bar by a scant 1/4” — scant in the sense used in recipes.

Transformation! So do such miniscule adjustments make big differences. I’m very glad, as the Matt IGH fixed gear gets a lot of miles.

Alhamdulilla!

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Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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[Jay]

They call us, "micro adjusters", vs. "macro adopters".  Heard that on a cycling podcast years ago.  I can feel just a few mm difference.  I wish I wasn't so picky, but if the bars are too far by 5mm, it makes a huge difference to my upper body comfort (= discomfort).

[Patrick Moore]

I’ve read that Eddy Merckx never stopped making minute adjustments to his saddle height throughout his career; tho’ perhaps this was due in part to his injury from the accident with a spectator.

So at least the great Eddy and I have this much in common.

Patrick Moore, who very surprisingly felt distinctly slower than Eddy on the ride home just now against a ~10 mph headwind (and carrying 29 lb of groceries. Never saw Eddy do that).

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[Ted Durant]

On Wednesday, January 28, 2026 at 4:49:22 PM UTC-6 Patrick Moore wrote:

This once again annoyed me on today’s errand ride, so after some more compulsive measuring I decided that I’d missed the exact bar/stem height by a couple of mm, and raised the bar by a scant 1/4” — scant in the sense used in recipes.

Transformation! So do such miniscule adjustments make big differences. I’m very glad, as the Matt IGH fixed gear gets a lot of miles.

I can relate. Think about it, though - if you changed your saddle height by 6mm, you'd notice that, right? 

Ted Durant

Milwaukee, WI USA

 

[Patrick Moore]

I mispoke; the change was closer to 3 mm or 1/8”; perhaps 4 mm. Still, you are right about small adjustments in saddle height — and in saddle tilt, IME.

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[Laing Conley]

That is why I try to use two bolt seatposts on everything, much easier to make minute adjustments to seat angle. 

Laing Conley

Delray Beach FL

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[Garth]

Yes, pro cyclists are well known for attention to details, down to the mm. Pro road riders always have a backup bike on the team car. Despite the best efforts of duplication, they never are the same as their preferred bike. Same parts, same measurements, etc, but obviously there's more to it than the eye can see. When a pro rider has to do a bike exhange, if the mechanics can fix that bike from the team car while the rider rides on with the spare bike, a rider will often ask to swtich back to their preferred bike when given the opportunity. 

I've stopped keeping track of where I place the bars, stem and saddle because no matter where I set them, I find myself tweaking something days or weeks later. I have a log book of a bunch of irrelevant numbers ! In the case of winter, where I try to ride on rollers every other day indoors, I'll try all sorts of setups because I have all my home tools at hand without fussing with tools in bike bag on the road. Basically, I've realized I'm not limited to, or by, and one certain setup and numbers. Take some time off the bike and everything seems so new. 

That said, after over a foot of snow of late, I suddwnly have no desire to even think anything about a bike. Not just the work to remove all the snow, but out walking the hills with pristine snow that only a few deer have been is both taxing and energizing. It's the freshest of air !  Plus it's been -4 to 15d F. This kind of winter is just too inviting to be outside to think about a bike right now. 

[George Schick]

Yes, indeed. And these comments are what I've always liked about the Salsa Shaft seat posts.  I have a black one on my MTB and a more rare silver one on my Ram.  Once you've dialed in the front-and-back adjustment of the saddle and tightened it up with one bolt, you can "micro-adjust" the angle of it via a separate 5mm hex bolt and and then lock the position by yet a third bolt.  And, you can remove and replace the saddle without disturbing the angle tilt settings. I wouldn't want to have any other seatpost.

https://g-tedproductions.blogspot.com/2019/07/review-of-parts-past-salsa-cycles-shaft.html

[Kim H.]

I have had a Sakae Ringyo MTE-100 seat post on my 52cm Clem for well over three years with a Brooks B67S saddle. I removed the quick release bolt and replaced it with a single eight millimeter long Allen hex-headed long bolt. 

During this time, I was constantly adjusting the saddle backwards to the rear wheel to no avail of comfort with small increments in one quarter inches.

It has only been in the last five months, I achieved in finding that sweet spot of comfort by moving my even further back. Sing hallelujah !  I even dared myself in tilting the nose of my saddle upwards 5° degrees. In a single adjustment, I was successful. 

Come to the present, I have left my saddle alone without temptation knowing that I am very comfortable riding upright down the trails near where I live. 

Kim Hetzel.

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[Patrick Moore]

Garth: Noted, and I agree that each bike, even near clones, require their own long-term adjustment period, but I use the 1999 Joe Starck as a starting point model.

Yes, a post with a 2-bolt clamp would be nice, but I like my old Durace 7410s; I’m pretty handy at changing the angles; the biggest hassle is removing the saddle bag.

Off to try the Matthews IGH clone in a bit, God willing.

[Patrick Moore]

Update: continued the fine-tuning operation today by moving the saddle forward by 3-4 mm and tilting it up by one very fine notch in the DA 7410 seatpost, and also lowering it by about the same 3-4 mm — altogether, much better. Raising the bar often requires increasing the saddle tilt pari passu (as they say). The bike now has much more that “simply fall into a natural hand/arm/shoulder position” that so characterizes the 1999. Not quite as much, but close.

As Garth said, each bike needs its peculiar adjustments, but since this frame is, or ought to be, a geometrical clone of the benchmark 1999 Joe, that did stand well as a model or starting point. And of course, my measurements, when comparing reaches and heights, are very likely rather crude.

https://youtu.be/-RlbYMVlq3k

[alan lavine]

Interesting to read your experiences with micro adjustments...I am guilty as well. It is true that duplicating measurements is a good starting point but never sufficient on its own. Like Garth, I have a notebook of useless numbers. So many others factors are impossible to quantitate.

In my case, as I live with 2 different types of arthritis, I have some days that are better than others, sometimes in subtle ways, and that affects my comfort on the bike. Rather than make multiple micro-adjustments, I try to follow "Alan's rule of Three".  If the same issue  occurs 3 times on successive rides I assume it's the bike and not me, and I'll make the change, small as it may be. My wife can't possibly understand my constant futtzing with it all.

Not sure I do either.

Alan 

NYC spending more time in the gym than I'd like