Ron's Ortho... stem question

[Chris K]

Hey all, I've got some Ortho Bars in my cart and looking for stem advice from those who use this bar. Obv there are multiple fit and frame factors that play into something like this, but curious what people are generally going with. Here are the options I'm deciding between:

- Faceplater 110mm

- Faceplater 135mm

- Tallux 12cm

Will the 110 Faceplater be too short?

[Brian Turner]

Without having the most important factors (frame, size, and what you’re currently running), I’d say going with a faceplater type stem would be a good idea because these are very wide bars, and it’s good to have a stem that will clamp down on them more securely than a single bolt quill stem.

I currently have Ortho bars on my 54cm Gus, and I’m using a 110mm Nitto threadless stem with 4 bolts on the faceplate.

-Brian

Lexington KY 

On Mar 10, 2024, at 1:03 PM, Chris K <cmka...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hey all, I've got some Ortho Bars in my cart and looking for stem advice from those who use this bar. Obv there are multiple fit and frame factors that play into something like this, but curious what people are generally going with. Here are the options I'm deciding between:

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/650cf8f5-80e3-46e7-87dd-0cb5bf5543c5n%40googlegroups.com.

[Eric Marth]

What Brian said plus my choice would be the 12cm Tallux or the 13.5cm face-plater assuming you're on a Riv 54cm or larger. 

I have a 12cm Tallux on my Appaloosa with Ortho bars. It's been pretty good, no complaints, but those bars are massive and I wouldn't mind having them a little further away. But not enough to do a stem swap! 

[Richard Rose]

Chris, are you changing handlebar on an existing bike or, is this a new build? If the former & when I did a bar swap on my Gus, I was able to determine stem length with a couple of measurements. I always prefer a 4 bolt stem but as I understand it the ortho bar has an unusual clamp size?

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 10, 2024, at 1:13 PM, Brian Turner <brok...@gmail.com> wrote:



To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/E3BCA9D9-22A0-45C8-9079-5AA37D9F712D%40gmail.com.

[Brian Turner]

It’s 26.0 clamp diameter.

On Mar 10, 2024, at 2:04 PM, Richard Rose <rmro...@gmail.com> wrote:

Chris, are you changing handlebar on an existing bike or, is this a new build? If the former & when I did a bar swap on my Gus, I was able to determine stem length with a couple of measurements. I always prefer a 4 bolt stem but as I understand it the ortho bar has an unusual clamp size?

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/7612CA26-81A5-4D21-8937-5F4B43B90A13%40gmail.com.

[iamkeith]

I can't offer much input regarding length, without knowing more about you and your bike, but can offer this in case it helps:  I just swapped a Ron's Ortho bar in place of a 65cm Riv Tosco bar, mainly because it was black.  The two bars are almost identical in terms of rise and reach and sweep.  I still have the Tosco on one bike (Susie), with a 135 faceplater.  The Ortho is has a 120 stem, but on a frame with a significantly longer top tube (Scapegoat), so almost comparable reach in the end.  In both cases, I wish my stem was even longer, but they're hard to find and I do have a uniquely long torso, too.  Main point is that if  you have access to a Tosco, you can extrapolate safely.  Ron's has more graceful curves and doesn't have the fugly 31.8mm bulge at the clamp area but Tosco, being steel, is MUCH stiffer and therefore the superior bar from a practical standpoint. Ortho is too flexy, but aesthetically superior.   Either one achieves the most comfortable cockpit I've ever owned.  

[Brian Turner]

I forgot to mention, the 110mm stem works well for me on a frame like the Gus because it has a longer effective top tube length than a more traditional styled diamond frame. Gus, Platy, Clem, Susie, Roscoe… those Rivs are all designed for upright riding with sweptback bars like the Ortho (and Tosco, Bosco, etc.). There’s a good chance you’d need a longer stem option if you’re riding a frame with more traditional diamond geometry.

[Tim Bantham]

My recommendation would be to always chose the faceplater stem over the talux. The first consideration is the four bolt design will give you a more secure clamping service. Those bars are wide and you'll put a good amount of force into them while riding. The four bolts securing the face plate will be stronger. The second reason and perhaps most import is that it is so much easier to swap bars with a faceplater. As far as length It depends on how much room you need. You didn't say what bike you are putting them on but you have to consider your top tube length and the HT/ST angles.

[iamkeith]

The recommendation for wide  4-bolt, removable faceplate stems is a good one.  It helps control flex.  But Riv doesn't offer those in 26.0, do they?  Not even sure who does, these days.  Might need a 31.8 faceplater with a shim.  

Correction to my earlier post: I actually have a 130mm stem with my black ortho bar, not 120... and I still wish it was longer.  I forgot, but that's one of the reasons I switched things up:  I finally found a long 26.0 stem with a good secure clamp.  FWIW,  here are some pics of both Ortho and Tosco bars.  Side-by-side and on bikes, so you can see where the grip falls relative to the steering axis.  Once I'm satisfied, I'll wrap them for more hand positions.  Once again, Im showing this because you might find more info regarding the Tosco fit, and it's so similar.

[iamkeith]

[Daniel Grilli]

I’ve got these bars lined up for my Appaloosa build. 

My local bike shop had a NOS Velo Orange Grand Cru stem in 120mm that looks pretty perfect. It’s 26.0, and having no rise should be slightly longer in reality than its length number suggests. I’m hoping that the wider clamp section will help it to grip the bars well too, despite the single bolt. 

[Chris K]

Thank you all for the pics and advice! Very helpful.

I'm putting these bars on a 1985 Trek 870. As Riv says on their cardboard geo charts "don't obsess", but geometrically this old frame is not terribly far off some Riv models, setting aside, of course, bb drop and stack (1985 Trek 870: 21.8" frame, 71º hta, 71.5º sta, 58.0 tt, 48.5 cs, 5.0 drop, 52.7 stack, 40.6 reach).

My current set-up is Choco bars and an 8cm Dirt Drop. The height feels fine, just slightly above saddle height, and the reach isn't bad either but could be ~1" longer. I'm fairly upright but can lean in and grip forward as needed. I just like the idea of more width and more flare.

Are these details helpful? I'm maybe leaning toward the 135mm Faceplater based on your replies, but that does seem long!

[Mike H]

I just finished the same process of deciding on a stem for my Ortho Bars as well. I initially went with the 12cm Tallux, but since I like to lean into my bars a bit and not be totally upright, I dealt with slipping. I've got a long torso and arms so I wanted to get a bit more reach too since the Orthos sweep back further than any bar I've had before. I ended up getting the 90-190 face-plater in 135mm and I think that was the right move. I've yet to ride any bumpy trails yet but it feels much more solid and that bit of extra stem length is beneficial for me. 

[El Sapo]

Wish I would have understood the issues with the 26 mm handlebar clamp prior to purchasing the Ortho Bar. No megusta.The pics posted by iamKeith don’t show that his hair, beard, and hip vibe are much greater riding the bike with ortho bars.

[Richard Rose]

For what it is worth Ron used 25.4 clamp size stems and claims & claims they work great. Got to spread that clamp I guess.

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 11, 2024, at 12:09 PM, El Sapo <charles...@comcast.net> wrote:



--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/f184e534-6809-40e7-9930-81c5d5b61ca3n%40googlegroups.com.

[Jordan Rosenblum]

Not unlike other folks, I found the width of the Ortho's demanded a longer stem than I use with Bosco and Tosco bars. Another option that I think sits somewhere between a face-plater and other single bolt stems are the Ritchey Force made by Nitto stems of the 90's, which you can occasionally find in even longer lengths. They are steel with a single bolt—and very pretty. The downside is that they don't have a ton of rise. As the poster above mentions, I have successfully used a Ritchey 25.4 clamp diameter stem with the 26.0 Ortho's, which were very secure—though I don't presume any knowledge of whether this is long-term safe. 

I saw this post just as I was prepping a for-sale post of similar stems on another forum. If Chris or other folks are interested, the following are up for grabs, I am going to create a new post so that I don't derail the thread. These include a 120mm 25.4 faceplate stem, Ritchey 25.4 stems in 150 and 170mm(!!!!!!!!),  and a Ritchey 135mm, 26.0 (might be what you're looking for). Regardless, if you don't need a long steering column, I highly recommend the Ritchey Force stems if you can scrounge up the size that would work for you.

Jordan in Portland, Oregon

[Eric Marth]

Someone better buy that Ritchey Force it's the perfect size and spiritual aesthetic for the Orthos. 

[El Sapo]

Is a 1 bolt clamp is going to be adequate on the ortho? The options for mounting this bar are almost all troublesome. Oversized clamp with a shim? Faceplater that’s too short? Undersized clamp? Or the one bolt quill made for a road bike?

If you’re putting these bars on an 80’s MTN bike with a road bike style geometry frame. is it better to go longer like 130mm?

I’m that guy Grant tells to not overthink it. Matter of fact he did tell me that once already.

[El Sapo]

Are those stems with the cable stops 26mm clamp?

[Michael Monti]

As a huge fan of the old Ritchey force stems, I'm going to say that it is very likely that the stems pictured here are designed to accommodate cantilever brakes, aka with cable stops.  The clamp diameter being 25.4.  Also, I have found these stems hold handlebars very well.  The issue with these stems is not scratching the bars during install because the steel sleeve (the 25.4 part) is a longer length than most single bolt stems making it difficult to install anything other than a flat bar.  So, my trick for this is to take out the bolt and put it in backwards, starting it through the threaded side on the bottom of the sleeve and placing a penny in front of the unthreaded side covering it and threading the bolt into the penny and with minimal torque the clamp diameter opens up helping to prevent any damage to your handlebars during install.  The downside to this single bolt stem vs. the faceplater stem is deciding you want to change your stem and having to undo one side your beautifully wrapped bars.

[Brian McDermott]

I went from Billies to orthos on my Appaloosa, had to go from a 120 to 130 for the extra sweep. Finding a suitable 26.0 stem was a challenge, ended up with a Miyata pantographed stem from eBay.

[Chris Kannen]

Again, thanks much for all the replies and info. I think I'll get the 135 Faceplater. The reason for getting the Nitto Riv version instead of one of these awesome Ritchie's is I need the extra height.

FWIW, Ron says a 25.4 clamp works with the 26.0 bar if you pry it open just a touch to fit it in. Bit of a hack I suppose, but I'm gonna give it a shot.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/jb9Wk8SvPTU/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/7d92b563-9594-4504-8e0d-77722a7fa31en%40googlegroups.com.

[iamkeith]

FWIW, from many years of doing so, I'll second the suggestion (not a promise or recommendation - disclaimer and all that) that 25.4 stems CAN  work ok with 26.0 bars.  But the only ones Ive had scuccess with are high-end steel stems with a single bolt clamp.  They tend to have thinner steel that can bend and conform to the larger diameter bars.  Especially the Salsa ones, but also the Ritchey Force ones being discussed here.  I don't want to discourage you from trying - and it's a relatively cheap experiment - but I'm less certain it'll work with a removable faceplate construction.  Less of the material around the clamp circumference is un-restrained and free to flex.  It might work BETTER - I just don’t know.  Tighten slowly and methodically, and watch to make sure that it's the steel stem that gets deformed, and not the aluminum handlebar.  I know it's not your current plan, but don't pry open a forged aluminum stem to fit a bigger bar.  Lastly,  the safe option is still a 31.8 faceplater stem with a 26.0 shim.  I get it if you want to try a 26.0 stem first though.  Just please let us know how it works out.

[Patrick Moore]

+1 for the Ritchey Force stems; IME they clamp bars more immovably than single-bolt Nitto stems possibly because of their wider clamps.

And +1 for using 25.4 mm steel stems with 26.0 bars. I used to regularly install 26.4 ("point 4") mm Cinelli Giro d'Italias into Salsa and Tioga mountain bike stems with 25.4 clamps in order to get them high enough on low-stack mountain bikes and XO-1. I never had problems getting the bar's curves around the wide, square clamps, or afterward while riding the combination. I do think that, as I did later, Nitto Dirt Drop stems or customs -- I had a couple made by Salsa -- are better.

And +1 for not prying wider a forged aluminum stem.

[Chris Kannen]

Seems to be good agreement on the clamp mismatch.

Ron replied to a query about it with "the 4 bolt will meld to the slightly larger diameter just fine -- if not a little better than a 1 or 2 bolt."

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/jb9Wk8SvPTU/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CALuTfgsr5CJe9YVcEj4iM8pnZi7pBmPaHtBzZMH_F8MPHEbCmQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[Dan]

Chris, can I ask how this ended up working for you? If so, what shim did you use?

I've set up my Appaloosa with the Orthos and a 120mm VO single-bolt 26.0mm stem.

The comfort and control is FANTASTIC, but I can make the bars slip if I push down on them hard. So far it hasn't happened while riding, but it makes me feel a little uneasy that it might be possible.

I'm wondering if I need to go for a 31.8mm Nitto faceplater or, *gasp*, a threadless adapter and threadless stem.... :S

[scott minor]

I've been happy with a 120mm lugged stem w Orthos on my 62cm Atlantis.  Sometimes when I'm jumping on the bike quickly I get the feeling my bars just slipped downward but actually they just flexed!  So the stem is grabbing pretty well to not slip in this scenario.  The stem has pronounced rigidity as well so the flex is limited to the bars.  I'd think the Ritchey force would behave the same way, which in my view is a pretty nice balance when it comes to Orthos.  

[Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY]

Long Ritchey stems ❤️, this with inverted Albatross 👍. 170mm of fantastic🍾

-Kai

On Monday, March 11, 2024 at 6:43:41 PM UTC-4 Jordan Rosenblum wrote:

[Chris Kannen]

Dan - I actually haven't pulled the trigger yet. Spring break got in the way ;) I will definitely post something to this thread when it happens though.

You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/jb9Wk8SvPTU/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/9a750e17-0fb4-4f9c-8330-1730f7592be7n%40googlegroups.com.