Tire Recommendations for an All-Rounder

[Kevin Lindsey]

Greetings.

I just purchased a 1999-ish All-Rounder frame and am currently pulling together the parts to build it up.  I'd appreciate any recommendations on the type of tires I should consider; I'll be riding almost exclusively on pavement (maybe some off-road somewhere down the line), no heavy loads, and am looking for something moderately fast.

Thanks,

Kevin Lindsey

Alexandria, VA

[Patrick Moore]

The Rene Herse/Compass Elk Pass (labeled 32, 29 mm on 23 mm rims) or the Nachez Pass, labeled 47 mm but others say 41 mm on ordinary road-width rims. The EP comes only in the "extra light" design but I think you can get the NP in both regular and diet.

God willing, I'll shortly be getting around to actually beginning to start to initiate the first steps of the early part of the process of beginning to do something about getting a bike to fit both of these tires and fenders and an old AM hub, before too much longer. (I do have the wheel! Quite a build feat by Kelly at the westside High Desert; getting the 40 holes into a 32 hole rim involved spoke washers and every 4th spoke a bit longer than the other 28. Aaron at Rat City Bikes in Seattle overhauled the hub; he knows hub gears!).

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Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

[Ian Dickson]

Did the All-Rounder take 26" tires?

[Patrick Moore]

Forgot to say that I expect that the Nachez Pass is the better tire for an All Rounder, but a plug for the Elk Pass for simply dreamily smooth and fast rolling. Despite its gossamer weight and onion-skin casing, it actually works fine in firm gravel and thin sand; as well as the 559 X 32 mm Pasela (about 30 mm on narrow rims), tho' I expect that the EP would be impossible here without sealant in the tubes because of our goatheads (haven't tried it so). I rode the Pasela with tubes, no sealant, for a number of years, though this did require a great deal of patching because of the thorns -- my tolerance, pre-sealant, for patching, was pretty wide. The 559 X 32 Pasela weighed ~250 grams; the EP 178, actual weights. The EP is faster and smoother and has a much wider "nice" pressure range, and the tread lasts at least as long (1,500 miles rear, with frequent rear loads including my 170-175 lb), while the sidewalls actually last longer -- those of the Pasela are notoriously fragile, or were 10-12 years ago.

But the Pasela is tolerable, faut de mieux, and I saw recently that it is still available in the folding, non TG model; it's also available in the TG modell. You can get almost 3 of these for the cost of an Elk Pass.

While we're at it: The 559 X 35 (31 or so mm actual on 23 mm rims) Kojak is IMO better than the Pasela; rolls at least as well, lasts much longer, resists flats much better; I fixed perhaps half the flats on these as with the Paselas. I could get these and similar 700C Kojaks under fenders on my 2003 Riv Road custom and on my Ram. I expect that the All Rounder's clearance is at least as good and probably a bit better.

[Patrick Moore]

Yes; it was an improvement of the XO-1, in fact.

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[Andrew Letton]

Larger size All-Rounders were designed around 700c wheels... like my 65cm All-Rounder.

cheers,

Andrew

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[Kevin Lindsey]

In later versions, some of the larger sizes took 700c, but mine sports 26-inch wheels.

Thanks,

Kevin Lindsey

Alexandria, VA

[Benz, Sunnyvale, CA]

I'll second Patrick's recommendation of the Rene Herse/Compass Naches Pass tires, if you have a 559 All-Rounder.

I've been using these exclusively for my 559 Atlantis since the tire's introduction, and have nothing but good experiences – they're fast, but not fragile, and are quite durable to boot. I've used them mainly on paved roads, although I've also taken them "gravel grinding" on occasion, with no ill effects. You don't have to splurge for the Extra Leger version unless you're shooting to get that last 5%.

Ironically, my own 559 All-Rounder currently has Rene Herse/Compass Rat Trap Pass tires. These are the fat 2.3"-wide brothers of the Naches Pass tires, and I'm giving them yet another try, after failing to like them the last three times. LOL! I find the RTP tires an unconvincing fit for my type of riding. As fat tires, you run them at low pressure as per their raison d'être. However, that means they can get a bit too wobbly/sloppy when hammering off-saddle or cornering aggressively on paved roads with good grip. They're best on non-paved surfaces like rougher gravel, where a bit of slip+wobble is expected and thus not so disconcerting, but I don't do a lot of that; or perhaps they're good for folks who ride smoother than I do. :)

If you're looking for something not as spendy ($71 each plus shipping is nuts if you're not a bike nut), I like the basic Paselas. I used those before the Naches Pass tire debuted, and they're fine as moderately fast, 95/5-road/trail tires. In fact, I sometimes miss the "Pasela hum". Other possibilities as you move up the price ladder are the Continental Sport Contact II, and Schwalbe Marathon Racer. I don't have first hand experience with these, although they did test well. I don't recommend narrower tires for an All-Rounder, as I believe in leveraging the tire clearance of the design.

[Daniel M]

If the Rat Trap Passes will fit, there is really nothing else like them. I run mine at 25psi whether paved, unpaved, loaded, or unloaded (Max rider + gear weight = 200lbs), and rarely get flats despite soldering on with tubes. Off-road, 20psi does feel nicer, but has subjected me to pinch flats and rim dings when hitting rocks or riding up curbs ungracefully and too fast. I also felt some of that squirminess that Benz describes when back on pavement. So for me the key was to find the absolute minimum pressure that doesn't feel squirmy on pavement and ride that pressure all the time. I can't imagine going back to narrower tires than a frame will fit; you gain so little and lose so much shock absorption, traction, and flat resistance due to the higher required pressure of the narrower tire. It's why I think all frames built for 650bx42mm are way better served by 26"x54mm if they will fit between the stays. Disc brakes, which I otherwise think are unnecessary for all-road bikes, make the conversion really easy to try.

Daniel M
Berkeley, CA

[Jason Fuller]

When I saw this post I was excited to come in and share that the Panaracer Gravel King SK is being made in 26" now, but based on your use and desire for a quicker-rolling tire, have to agree with everyone else on the RH tires.  I think the Naches Pass are the way to go if you have standard-width rims.  I have the 650B version, the Baby Shoe, and they've been great.  

Apparently Ultradynamico is putting out 26" options next year, and a set of the Cava is what I'd like to put on my Clem next - still fast rolling and supple but a little better off pavement, I expect. 

[Benz, Sunnyvale, CA]

On Thursday, February 13, 2020 at 11:20:09 AM UTC-8, Jason Fuller wrote:

Apparently Ultradynamico is putting out 26" options next year, and a set of the Cava is what I'd like to put on my Clem next - still fast rolling and supple but a little better off pavement, I expect.

 

Great…another premium tire with a premium price to match, so as to better empty my wallet. It's bad when Challenge Paris-Roubaix Pro, and Vittoria Corsa G2.0 tires begin to look economical…

[Gabriel Bruguier]

+1 for RTP's!  I've been commuting on the black walled EL version since last October (with a bit of sealant in my tubes) and have had no problems whatsoever with flats.  I like 23 psi front/25 psi back.  Every day that I ride them I experience a renewed sense of appreciation.  They're so smooth, and so fast.

[Patrick Moore]

Curious: What sealant? I tried Stan's in tubes in fat tires (50 mm F Freds) at ~25 psi or so, and found that the pressure insufficient to get the sealant where it was needed. Same sealant in same tire but tubeless, no problems at sub 20 psi.

My brother has had the same problems with Orange Seal in RTPs at ~30 and has to pump the harder than otherwise would be preferred.

On Fri, Feb 14, 2020 at 8:02 AM Gabriel Bruguier <gbru...@gmail.com> wrote:

+1 for RTP's!  I've been commuting on the black walled EL version since last October (with a bit of sealant in my tubes) and have had no problems whatsoever with flats.  I like 23 psi front/25 psi back.  Every day that I ride them I experience a renewed sense of appreciation.  They're so smooth, and so fast.

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[Gabriel Bruguier]

I'm using Orange Seal in mine.  I do notice a slight increase in effort needed to pump them up, but its not bad.

 

 

[Patrick Moore]

Beware that sealants can clog the valves to the point where you can't get air in, even with a floor pump. I've had this happen, and had to remover the core and use a wire to unclog the stem, and wash off the core. Perhaps Orange Seal is worse for this than Stan's; which may be the shadow side of its superior sealing properties, at least IME. (I am talking of the Stan's sold circa 2013 or 2014.) This would be a real frustration out on the road.

On Fri, Feb 14, 2020 at 4:13 PM Gabriel Bruguier <gbru...@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm using Orange Seal in mine.  I do notice a slight increase in effort needed to pump them up, but its not bad.

 

 

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[Craig Montgomery]

BTW fellas, just posted my RTP's for sale. Couldn't get used to that squirminess. Didn't feel right in fully-loaded touring mode. Will let someone else bounce around on 'em. 

Craig in Tucson

[Mike E]

Not sure the Ultradynamico is fast rolling on pavement. The knobs are so widely spaced that the tire is bumping from one knob to the next and the casing seems stiffer than the RH tires mentioned above. I did a review of them on the 650B list a while ago:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!search/ultradynamico/650b/EjCEHJvZDIw/-3DGyRHPAgAJ

Has anybody done a real performance test of these?

[Jason Fuller]

The Cava's 'knobs' are flush with the casing, which were the ones I was referring to - the Rosé is as you describe but I agree they won't be as fast.  I have them on my Sam and find them reasonably quick but certainly slower than the Babyshoes! 

[Jan Heine]

Craig,

Thank you for sharing your experience. What pressure did you run them at? I find that on my Firefly, at 20 psi, the Rat Traps float over gravel like nothing else, but are almost unrideable on pavement. 25 psi is a good compromise for rough mixed-surface rides, but they're still no fun on twisty descents: The bike runs wide in tight corners. At 30 psi, they corner wonderfully on pavement, but for rough gravel, they're a bit harsh. At 35 psi, they sing on pavement like a narrow racing tire. With a max. pressure rating of 55 psi, there is a lot of room for tuning your tires to your needs and preferences...

Jan Heine

Rene Herse Cycles

Reborn in the Cascade Mountains

www.renehersecycles.com