Shoes for winter riding

[Kushan]

Hi all -

Daily temperatures have been dropping to lower 40s F here in Seattle. I am finding that my usual California winter riding apparel isn't working out well in these conditions. I wanted to get some suggestion on a couple of problem areas:

- How do you keep your feet warm? I have been using thick merino wool socks and mountain biking shoes. After about an hour or so in 40-degree, no sun weather, my feet are starting to get cold (no rain involved). After about two hours, I am starting to feel numbness in my toes. I would like to go for longer (5-6 hours) ride.

- Based on some older threads here, I am using full-sleeve merino shirt with a breathable jacket. While this keeps my upper body warm, I have two problems - the jersey is soaking wet with sweat after two hours. This is on a mostly flat roads where I would generally be dry in warmer weather. The other problem is that after the ride, the skin on my upper body is red. It feels somewhat similar to how the uncovered areas of skin (such as face) turn red after being out in cold for long. I don't have the problem with skin redness when I wear the same jersey (but no jacket) in a bit warmer weather (50s or 60s). So it's hard to determine whether my upper body is too hot or too cold. 

I know this is highly personal and specific but I would really appreciate any advice on what I can do or try. Don't want to stop/cut back on riding during winters. 

Best

Kushan

[Roberta]

I’m new to cold winter riding so have just a little experience. I asked a similar, but not the same, question about cold toes last year: https://groups.google.com/g/rbw-owners-bunch/c/fhxPz3ZpXMY/m/. Now that Philadlelphia‘s temps are In the 20’s, I’ll be re- reading and re-evaluating for this year, using more of the great suggestions.

Last year I invested in DeFeet Woolie Boolie socks in one size larger than what the chart said because I don’t like tight socks or  crushed toes. They are perfect thickness and also give a little air pocket for warmth at the toes. I’ve done Garth’s suggestion for wind barrier, and recently bought a pair of LL bean shoes that Annie Bikes recommended on her blog, although I haven’t used them yet . The idea of these last two suggestions is to help block wind. For my lace up sneakers, I now don’t lace them as tightly.  I wear a very thin wool hat under my helmet.   These changes have helped. 

I don’t have any suggestions for your core but have a feeling that once you get that under control, your feet will benefit. 

Finally, I attended ( I was a bit late) a Cycling Savvy Zoom meeting last night on cold weather riding, hosted by Pam Murray, Pam Likes to Bike. She bikes in all kind of weather. She’s on this board and will hopefully see this thread. 

Roberta

[ascpgh]

As an unreformed connected foot/pedal rider due to results of injury and recovery. I have a pair of Lake brand cold weather riding shoes that look a bit like a cross country ski "boot" that I've had for decades. They aren't waterproof but not on my problem list these days. The fit feels sloppy because I can get lots of sock into them ad the straps don't create constrictions which makes them less than ideal for more serious or long rides in warmer temps.. 

Andy Cheatham

Pittsburgh

On Thursday, January 27, 2022 at 3:07:08 AM UTC-5 Kushan wrote:

[Pam Bikes]

I have the same issues with my feet.  I wear Uggs boots which are suede lined with shearling with one or 2 layers of wool socks.  I have been told electric socks are good but haven't tried them.

For the core, my back and arm pits would sweat with a jacket so I use a windblock like the Riv lobster bib or something like that in the front leaving my back open except for the layers I'm wearing.  In the 40°s I wear a short sleeve wool sweater w/2 prs of wool arm warmers with the wind block.  I add leg warmers on top if pants.  And on my hands, leather shearling gloves with the Riv overmitts.  I am cold for 1 1/2 miles or about 10 min but am warm after that.  If my arms start to sweat I can peel a layer of arm warmers down.  If I make a stop in a store, I push the arm and leg warmers down.  I also have ear covers that are like triangles to cover my ears.  Hats make me sweat but I do wear one in the 30°s.  I always have the possum nack gaiter too.  But all these little things pack down small if I have to stuff them in the bag.  I take my gloves inside so they can keep warm on the next leg of the ride.

[Toshi Takeuchi]

Sorry I seem to be replying to two threads and am not sure what has been said, so sorry for any redundancies.  I would recommend a simple shoe cover if the cold is due to wind going through your shoes.  For colder weather, there are neoprene booties shoe covers that work very well in blocking wind and providing some insulation for your feet.

For Kushan's problem of heating up, I use an insulated vest and arm warmers--double arm warmers when it's cold.  I might start out with a shell, but as I warm up on a climb, I will remove the shell and have the option of pulling down the arm warmers to cool down further.  If you don't own or want bicycling-specific gear like arm warmers, I would use a long sleeve shirt with a vest and roll up the sleeves if it gets hot.  The vest keeps the core warm, but being able to unzip the vest and a bicycling jersey or 1/4 zip long sleeve shirt will allow you to vent further if you get hot.  With these strategies, I don't get sweaty at all, except for my back to some extent, but it's not uncomfortable for me.  These strategies work fine to keep me dry unless it's raining--ugh!

Good luck!

Toshi in Oakland (well, it gets in the 40s here in the mornings)

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[rlti...@gmail.com]

We do get cold in the mornings here. Sometimes into the 20’s. On those days I typically ride in sandals. On my feet I put on thick wool socks and then Sealskinz socks over those. The Sealskinz are waterproof so they work for rain as well. 

My feet do sweat with this setup but they are warm. The wool socks deal with the sweat by wicking it away from my skin.

Robert Tilley

San Diego, CA 

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On Jan 27, 2022, at 12:07 AM, Kushan <kth...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi all -

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[Fullylugged]

It's not just the shoes.  My suggestion is included with my get up for 20-30 deg rides.

I rode in 29F yesterday. Merino Tee under a merino heavy weight base layer with a throat collar under a Columbia breathable jacket shell.  Merino skins (sold by RBW) long johns under Eddie Bauer stretch activity pants (great wind blocker). Bombas wool socks inside Sealskins (breathable) inside leather Addidas Sambas (platform pedals only for me) bought 1 size too large to accommodate the thickness. Cheap JC Pennny wool gloves. merino ski cap and ear band on my head.  Works great.  The key for feet is breathable and air space.  If you sweat and your socks get wet, your feet will chill. Zippers let you vent excess heat from a climb, etc if needed.

[Kushan]

Hi Bruce - 

Thanks for that insight. I went for a long ride today in mid-thirties. I was wearing mid-weight wool sucks under thick wool socks inside rubber soled shoes. I was pretty comfortable for the first two hours but then my toes and balls of my feet started to get extremely cold. By the time I finished the ride at hour 3, they were almost numb. When I took the shoes off, the socks were really cold (although couldn't tell if they were wet). I figured based on this experience that my feat are sweating and then getting cold. I would have thought that merino wool socks would wick the moisture away but I guess it isn't as effective. 

I am thinking of giving SealSkinz a try because they are waterproof. Which type do you use for sub 30 degree riding? I see that they have both cold weather and extremely cold weather. 

[Roberta]

Sounds like you’re going in the right direction.  There are also toe and hand warmers—you expose to air and the chemical reaction releases heat—and battery powered heated socks.  

[Richard Rose]

I just finished a nearly 2 hour fatbike ride on a snow covered trail in 20 degree weather. I was wearing one pair of medium weight socks with these insulated, separate thinsulate liner, rubber boots. Toasty warm the whole time.

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On Jan 30, 2022, at 4:26 AM, Roberta <rcha...@gmail.com> wrote:

Sounds like you’re going in the right direction.  There are also toe and hand warmers—you expose to air and the chemical reaction releases heat—and battery powered heated socks.  

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[Brady Smith]

For quick trips around town I usually just wear hiking books--with wool socks, I'm plenty warm down into the teens. 

For longer rides, there's really nothing better than neoprene shoe covers. I went out for almost four hours today in 35 degree weather, wearing regular cycling socks, my Pearl Izumi all-road shoes, and a pair of old Giro shoe covers I bought when I started bike commuting a few years ago. Toasty the whole time. I've survived 60 minute bike commutes in single digits with those and hiking socks. They don't mesh real well with casual wear, but I find that this is one area where technical roadie gear is superior to most other options. 

[Josh Brown]

Bought a pair of Lake (MXZ 200) a couple years ago and wear them when it gets below 30 here.

They have a goretex liner, vibaram sole, great stiffness and plenty of room in the toe box for thick socks. They also have a cutaway so you can use SPDs if that's your speed.

Josh in slushy NYC

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[Patrick Moore]

+ 1 for the Lake winter shoes. They are nice and warm, tho' I don't use mine until temps fall into the 20s.

Query: Mine are old; I'd guess 6-10 (the range indicates that I have no idea) years old, with a thickish neoprene liner built in. This liner is divided at the shoe's entry into a flap mean to wrap around the ankle and secure to the other side with velcro. This means that, when you are putting the boots on, you have to guide your foot into a rather narrow tunnel while holding the "flap" back so that it doesn't velcro itself to the opposing side. If you are old, stiff, and whiny as I, then this can require certain contortions to get thick sock into shoe without bunching (shoes are properly sized).

Do the models from the last 5 years use the same wrap-around neoprene sock?

Still and all, even mine are comfortably and comfortingly warm on longer rides at temps well below freezing.

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Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

[Josh Brown]

"Do the models from the last 5 years use the same wrap-around neoprene sock?"

Not the model I mentioned, which are more like a hiking boot with a stiff sole that can easily be used for walking around. 

Josh in NYC

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[ascpgh]

My Diadora winter shoes sound like the same design using a neoprene cuff with a wrapping flap (sort of) secured by velcro. I have to position both faces of the velcro away from the socked foot entering or the flap with the loop patch goes in with my foot and/or the hook patch adheres to my sock and inverts into the shoe as well. 

Glad that's not the design paradigm that carried forward. 

Andy Cheatham

Pittsburgh (where it's a balmy 20° but a looming winter storm will keep the Nokians mounted the rest of the week)

[Patrick Moore]

Well, if global warming fails to appear and we get nucular winter instead, I'll look for an updated pair. As things stand now, we here in high desert ABQ are lucky if we get a couple of decent snows per year, and rarely get more than a week of lows low enough for wearing my old pair.

Tho" ---- 4" snow predicted for later today, and low of 5* Thurs night! I hope to ride in the snow, but will stay inside until it warms up to at least mid teens.

[Den John]

My two (€) cents:

I ordered a pair of Five Ten Trail Cross GTX because I was planning a ride in the snow on the Belgian High Fens (Hoge Venen).

They didn't turn up on time, so I made do with what I already had for footwear: Specialized Rime MTB shoes, knee length sealskinz socks, and

Endura Neoprene overshoes. It worked OK: we were out for about 5 hours with a café stop half way, and I only really noticed cold feet towards the end. It was about -3°c up there, there was snow fall but not much wind. 

The Five Tens have since turned up and I've used them for a couple of commutes (30km each way). They seem OK so far, but it's not been especially cold or wet and certainly not snowy. They are one of the few flat pedal winter shoes out there (Vaude do something similar). Note that there seems to be a non-GTX version of the Trail Cross.

I also looked at Vans MTE shoes, some of them seem to have flat enough soles for cycling. https://www.vans.eu/mte.html  Has anyone tried them?

Cheers,

Johnny