Why bicycle racing is completely irrelevant

[Doug Williams]

This is why bicycle racing is completely irrelevant to people who actually use their bike for transportation. For a long time, I have been saying that race bicycle design is so divorced from real world useful bicycling as to be completely irrelevant. Why on earth would anyone buy a race bike and use it for their commute or for..well, anything except a professional race while being followed by a motorized maintenance crew carrying several backup race bikes?  A carbon fiber race bike is fragile, dangerous, and completely unsuitable for any real world purpose. For quite some time, the scientific consensus has been that wider tires are safer, more reliable, and more comfortable. Now that science is equally clear that wide tires are FASTER on real world roads, the reaction has been to...ban tires wider than 31mm?

https://www.renehersecycles.com/uci-limits-road-bike-tires-to-31-mm/

Seriously, the bicycling community needs to wake up and stop idolizing racers, race bikes, and the companies that promote them. These people are working to promote bikes that are terrible for any useful transportation purpose.

Doug

[Bruce Byker James]

[Sebastian Rodriguez]

Yes i think it may be an april fools post. hah

[Shannon Menkveld]

(April) 1st of all, I'm betting that you got trolled. More importantly, riding a bike quickly around a paved loop to and from your door, (H/T Maynard Hershon, "roadies ride from the door",) just for fun and fitness and because you can, is not a less legitimate use of a bicycle than riding one to and from work, or the grocery store. Not every bike has to be "useful."

And as to "carbon is unsafe," it's simply not true, as shown by the number of bonded carbon Treks that are still ridden regularly three decades after they were made. And that includes the mountain bikes, which presumably got ridden hard and crashed a lot... that's what happens to mountain bikes. I've rarely seen any carbon frame break in a crash that wouldn't have broken a metal bike, and the rider would have been equally screwed either way. I don't ride carbon bikes because I don't care for the way they feel, not because I think that they're unsafe. They're not, and I don't.

And, if there were no barriers to owning all the bikes we want, I bet that most of us here would have at least one lightweight, modernish, go-fast bike. Mine would probably be steel or titanium, but that's just because I prefer the way that they ride. Every carbon bike Ive ever owned has been weirdly feel-less. All of the aluminum ones have been too stiff for my taste... I like a bit of bend in the bottom bracket. (And I'd really like a Vitus 979... blue anodized, please.)

--Shannon

On Tuesday, April 1, 2025 at 9:05:48 AM UTC-7 Bruce Byker James wrote:

[Doug Williams]

Yes, most likely April 1st. But that doesn't change the fact that race bikes are useless to real people. In times of old, you had to do your own repairs during a race. If racers were required to do their own repairs and to start and finish on the same bike, we would all be riding USEFUL and reliable bikes instead of single purpose race bikes when we go to the grocery store.

[Patrick Moore]

Don’t feel bad, Doug. Before I read this thread on RBW I piped up with roughly the same opinion over on iBob and someone pointed out the date.

I have to say that Jan’s joke was very well set up. The supposed remark by Merckx was particularly good!

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[Patrick Moore]

As to racing bikes being useless for most people, well distinguo. Old steel racing bikes that can take 32 mm tires are far from useless for pleasure riding, define pleasure how you like. One of my best grocery/commuting beaters was an early ‘70s high end Motobecane.

As to modern CF racing bikes: Once 12 or 13 years ago someone brought a top end Di2 or whatever it was Dura Ace road bike into the shop — with cheap stamped rat trap pedals and no clips, and clamp-on rack bolted to the CF seatpost. There you go.

[Shannon Menkveld]

First, riders haven't had to fix their own race bikes since the "Googles and Dust" era, and even then it was mostly because Henri Desgrange was an utter, flaming asshole... races that he didn't run were much more lenient. And, as a spectator sport, somebody brazing their fork back together at 10 pm in the rain just isn't that much fun to watch. As a fan, I'd get ride of tactical mid-race bike changes, i.e. you pick your bike for the course, and you're stuck with it. If it breaks, you get another of the same bike. I'd also remove the team radios. Let riders communicate with their team cars through race radio, where everybody else can hear what they're saying. The radios have made races less tactical and more predictable, less dependent on the rider's ability to read the race. But in-race mechanical support? No, that stays in. As a spectator, it'd be lame to watch someone lose their chance to win a race because their chain broke or they flatted. Plus, I like the tradition that attacking someone who's had a mechanical is considered poor sportsmanship.

2nd, adults who ride bicycles when they don't have to are really, really weird. And even among those weirdos, the weirdos who ride their bikes to the grocery store are really, really weird. Most of the bicycle-riding weirdos ride for fun and exercise, not for transportation. and that's unlikely to change. If the industry stopped making racing and racing-inspired bikes tomorrow, the vast majority of them wouldn't become utility cyclists. They'd just stop riding.

Really, what we used to call fast-recreational riders who are riding those race bikes would be better off riding high-end versions of what we used to call sport-touring bikes. Indeed, many of them are... they're just called "gravel bikes" these days. Longer chainstays, low gears, wide tires, lots of attachment points for racks and stuff, etc. And you know what? Their owners still aren't taking them to the grocery store.

--Shannon

[Patrick Moore]

I agree with Shannon’s points, but I will add another even more peculiar segment of the weird bike riding population: those who ride their bikes to the grocery store or work or church or to a friend’s house for fun!

And a ‘70s-era steel racing bike is a lovely puppy for such riding with a racing rack (Tubus Fly) and racing panniers (Ortliebs) and a racing dynamo lighting system (SON + Edeluxe, but SP is a good second) and racing fenders from VO. I guess that this means that old steel racing bikes are much like sports touring bikes.

Patrick “if it’s not fun, why bother?” Moore

This isn’t the one I owned, which — so the seller told me — was a 1973 and not a 1972, but it is damned close. I set it up with a 67” fixed drivetrain, IRC “Tandem” 30 mm tires, VO fenders, clips ’n’ straps, a Flite saddle, a Fly rack to hold Ortlieb Bike Packer panniers or whatever the hell they were called 10 or 15 years ago, and IIRC a Shimano dyno hub powering an IQ Fly headlamp. Considerable TCO, esp with the fenders, but that never hindered me even in across-town urban traffic. It handled rear loads up to 40 lb better than any other road bike I’ve owned, even much stouter ones — the tout 531 frame was noticeably lighter than my Rivs. I sold it on because I converted a custom Riv Road to fixed commuter and it handled better than the Motobecane even if it wagged more under heavy rear loads. I think Eric Norris still has the Motobecane.

On Tue, Apr 1, 2025 at 11:58 AM Shannon Menkveld <shannon....@gmail.com> wrote:

… 2nd, adults who ride bicycles when they don’t have to are really, really weird. And even among those weirdos, the weirdos who ride their bikes to the grocery store are really, really weird. Most of the bicycle-riding weirdos ride for fun and exercise, not for transportation. and that's unlikely to change. If the industry stopped making racing and racing-inspired bikes tomorrow, the vast majority of them wouldn't become utility cyclists. They'd just stop riding.

[Steve]

Different strokes for different folks. Whatever spins your wheels!!!

If charging up a battery so you can shift gears and emulating the attire of paid professionals is your thing, then do what you want to do (to paraphrase the Isley Brothers). If you are enamored of a CF handlebar with a digital display that tracks  your kph and watts per hour then go for it. 

But if  you like riding a Rivendell - like I do - then my hat is off to you!!!

Steve in AVL .  

[P W]

Guys, it's April 1st.

There are so many "clues" in that "story" I'm actually shocked anyone took it seriously.

"Well, this ends our plans of sending a team on 55 mm tires to Paris-Roubaix"

That and the fact RH makes a very, very specific sized 31 road tire.

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[Steve]

And you can add the fact that Jan Heine has pulled an April fools joke for at least a couple of years now.  

- But seriously, ride the bike that jazzes you and keeps you coming back for more. 

[Eric Daume]

April Fool's joke aside, I'm not sure why the OP is so against racing bikes. No one is forcing anyone to ride anything. You can get a super functional hybrid with an upright position and good tire clearance for <$500. Or you can buy pro level gear and live your daydreams without mortgaging your house. Try doing this in motorsports...it's not possible.

Eric

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[Doug H.]

I have learned not to denigrate any form of cycling. I will never be as fast as a racer, will never commute more miles than some, will never get the most groceries each month with my bicycle. It isn't really about being the best is it? Ride because you enjoying riding. Whether it be emulating your favorite racer, cycling to get to work or school, or just for fun or exercise. Who was it that said Just Ride. ;-)

Doug

[Jay]

All bikes are good!  I see 'us' as the enlightened ones, who see the value in a certain type of bike for a less specific situation than pro cycling.  I'm not here to convince some bloke in town about why he should ditch his snazzy road bike, as long as he is polite on the road, we're family.

What tipped me off was when it said 31mm tires and I recalled they had that size.  If he would have said 30mm, or 32mm, I may not have connected it to April fools day.

[Sebastian Rodriguez]

Its like shoes:  some wear the comfiest thing they can find.  Others love the look of some 5 inch red-bottomed Louboutin's (sp?) and are willing to sacrifice comfort and practically for style.  I wouldn't wear alpine boots to work at the office, as i wouldn't wear flip flops on a construction site.  

I guess OP's opinion is that Race bikes exercise undue influence on the choices people make when choosing a bicycle. But ppl make irrational decisions all the time, its hardly discussed the moral/ethical responsibility advertisers/marketers bare when using their scientifically derived advertising/marketing methods in pushing people to make counter-productive choices.

For example, people are sold on trucks when in real life its probably one of the worst choices for most people.  They are hard to maneuver in  normal city/suburban setting, they consume gas like crazy, they weigh a ton, awful visibility, never use the truck bed for truck things, truck bed so high you cant put anything heavy in it without extra help, etc....

But people still buy them!

So yes people will still buy Race bikes, take them on a normal riv-ride and they will question their purchase, just as if we went on a normal "race" ride we might start looking at that carbon fork, seat post, handle bar, and wheelset.

As Bob Marley once said “Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery. None but ourselves can free our minds.”

 So....just ride ya mon!

PS: 

Todays Gravel Race Bike = Todays Pickup Truck

Todays Riv = Yesteryears Station Wagon (prob more practical for most)

Disuss...  :)

[Garth]

Well gee, this group is rather insulated bunch. In the rest of cycling world. Relatively speaking, a Riv bike costing well over 2 grand on the low end isn't exactly in the "common person" category. Tell a non-rider what your bike costs and they are generally shocked. Point being, Riv riders, Grant, or Jan Heine, or any other cycling related author isn't in any position to be telling people what's relevant in the cycling and or non-cycling world either. They are sales people also after all, just like all the carbon manufacturers and bike racers and organizers. I read all the time in other bike forums how the brand Rivendell is irrelevant to them,. So it seems everyone is irrelevant to someone. L'eggo my E'go !

Hey, I don't relate to commuting on bike either. I don't relate to riding the CA hills on a hillybike either. I don't relate to high sweptback bars either. I don't relate to wearing wool or whatever else Riv sells for clothing. I don't relate to the common Riv bike fit either. And I don't relate to wider tires being anything other than, hark ! wider.

Oh the humanity !  ... and so what ?

I do relate to the manual bike though. The steel frame, and rim brakes and friction shifting. I like Schwalbe tires also. I like bikes one can work on at home. I like that I can wear whatever I want to suit my locality.

So see, all that non-relating is really irrelevant. In my own family, there's many things about everyone I don't relate with and vice-versa. How well does anyone really know anyone anyways, truly ? Yeah, so what ? What fun would that be, for everyone to like the same things, to be a bunch of mini-Me's ? Booooooring and frankly, un-natural. The World thrives on and AS It's Inherent diverse nature, not it's non-existent monotony. That's where the supposed do-gooders have it all backwards. What already exists can't be made, and what doesn't can't be unmade.

[Nicholas A]

I used to race bikes, I still watch bike racing, I may even go back to bike racing when my kids are older, it makes me happy.

I don't own any race bikes anymore. I have two, hopefully later this year three, Rivendells, they make me happy.

If your bike makes you happy it's a great, relevant, wonderful bike.  

[Will Boericke]

I have to add, if you've never tried a carbon bike, you should take a spin.  Light and fast is definitely pretty fun.  Light and fast with decent width tires even moreso.  Not what I want to do all of the time (or most), but definitely enough of the time that I keep a carbon bike in the stable.

Will

[Bruce Byker James]

I had the amazing timing+luck+patience-of-family-members to be able to ride one of the climbs of the Tour de France this past summer with a friend, then hang out in the French Alps for half a day waiting for and watching the riders. I rented a carbon Scott and holy crap that was a lot of fun! Probably 75% of the fun was just the circumstances, but it was also amazing to be on something pretty much made for that kind of riding. The ride down was super fun, too, though if the wheels on my Clem were as straight as the wheels on the Scott were, it's possible I would have gone faster on the Clem because fear was the main limit on downhill speed.

Anyway, fun is fun!

 - Bruce

[Sally Bidleman]

Although I've never raced (and don't even ride fast!), my family and I love to watch bike races!

The 2025 Strade Bianche was so exciting...Pogacar is one tough, versatile rider!

And thanks to Carlton Kirby ("Sticky Bottle"), we are infusing our own rides with properly sarcastic lingo: like "You're pedalling squares!" Also, we practice the elbow flick, as needed. 

 

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[Chris Fly]

this is one of the best takes I've seen on this in a LONG time.. well done Shannon! 

Would someone who commutes everyday to work and needs to carry a bunch of stuff to and from ride a "race bike"? probably not.. but when I was commuting a few times a week when I was stationed in San Diego (about 23 miles one way), I was doing it on a Giant TCX cross bike with a messenger bag on my back.. I did have the luxury of being able to keep my uniforms at work, which made it much easier and I had a shower at work.. 

I get folks in this group are RBW fans to the core for the most part.. and while I LOVE my Homer and regret selling my Bleriot a few years back (although I still thing Grant put me on a size too large), I'm certainly not in love with the "hillbikes".. maybe a Roadini in the future, we'll see.. 

Carbon bikes aren't the devil, they are fine.. I don't own any currently, but almost certainly will in the future as they are great bikes that can be shaped in ways that steel never can.. can they break? sure.. can they almost always be repaired? absolutely! and usually not for any more money than it would cost to replace a tube on a steel bike, possibly less.. 

anyway, great post Shannon, I appreciate it! 

~Chris 

On Tuesday, April 1, 2025 at 9:28:14 AM UTC-7 shannon....@gmail.com wrote:

[Patrick Moore]

I’ve never ridden CF, tho’ someone once very kindly gave me a Calfee Ruby frameset — the tt was too long by a cm and I gave it to my taller brother. I should rent a cf road bike or whatever niche subcategory best fits my aging body and give the genre a try. 

My 1999 Riv Road custom fixed gear weighs 18 lb ready to ride but I recall once hefting a Parlee fixed conversion that must have weighed no more than 12 lb even with cheap rat trap pedals.

As to breakage, I believe that there is a huge difference between the liabilities of CF in itself and the very different liabilities of CF used in grossly insufficient amounts to achieve weight claims for marketing purposes. 

Lastly, I for one would love to see photos of Riv-inspired or Riv-adjacent CF bikes, if the listmeister approves.

On Wed, Apr 2, 2025 at 8:11 AM Chris Fly <four...@gmail.com> wrote:

… Carbon bikes aren’t the devil, they are fine.. I don't own any currently, but almost certainly will in the future as they are great bikes that can be shaped in ways that steel never can.. can they break? sure.. can they almost always be repaired? absolutely! and usually not for any more money than it would cost to replace a tube on a steel bike, possibly less.. 

On Tuesday, April 1, 2025 at 9:28:14 AM UTC-7 shannon....@gmail.com wrote:

… And as to “carbon is unsafe," it's simply not true, as shown by the number of bonded carbon Treks that are still ridden regularly three decades after they were made. And that includes the mountain bikes, which presumably got ridden hard and crashed a lot... that's what happens to mountain bikes. I've rarely seen any carbon frame break in a crash that wouldn't have broken a metal bike, and the rider would have been equally screwed either way. I don't ride carbon bikes because I don't care for the way they feel, not because I think that they're unsafe. They're not, and I don't.

[Richard Rose]

I would kill for a Gus that was 10 lbs. (15?) less than mine. It would be the perfect bike - as long as none of it’s other qualities were compromised.:)

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 2, 2025, at 11:01 AM, Patrick Moore <bert...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Mackenzy Albright]

Honestly, Jan is the king of april fools day. Every year he makes me chuckle. 

That being said - i do think that racing has hit a precipice in which I think it is largely irrelevant in technology development in a bike I wish to use on a daily basis. I don't need newer or lighter materials (steel is great). I don't need more gears (7-9 speed with a compact double does me fine). I don't need proprietary components or electrical anything. I want full serviceability, rebuildable components, and un-obsolete-able bikes that will last a lifetime. Not many companies are doing research or pushing industry to adopt quality long term and sustainable solutions. Rivendell does this fine. I guess the problem is I don't need to replace my Rivendell with another newer and better Rivendell even though they're fun to ogle. And all my parts are old and working great. Now with tariffs I will order from Rivendell or any USA side companies even less as the CBSA has been relentless. I will still try to make purchases from them when possible. But not sure when I'll need to make any necessary purchases from them in the near or moderately distant future. 

[Bill Lindsay]

"Although I've never raced (and don't even ride fast!), my family and I love to watch bike races!

The 2025 Strade Bianche was so exciting...Pogacar is one tough, versatile rider!"

A week from Sunday I'll be up at 4AM to watch Paris-Roubaix.  I can't wait.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Bill Lindsay]

"I think it is largely irrelevant in technology development in a bike I wish to use on a daily basis"

Incredible take, because I think this is the best part: I find that when I watched bike racing in the 1980s I was always looking over the bikes to figure out what they were running.  Now, the bikes are all so similar and vanilla that I actually watch the RACING, and I find it a lot more exciting.  The equipment fades into the background, and that's a good thing.  IMO.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Jay]

I love the spring classics.  Flanders this Sunday and then Roubaix, can't wait!

I agree with you Bill that today's bikes in the pro peloton are so similar.  I stopped at a cafe last year and a big cycling group had arrived same time (one of the big cycling clubs in and around the Toronto area).  "Their" bikes all looked the same!  Deep / aero CF wheels, most of the bikes were black or dark grey, stem slammed.  Good for them though, I'm sure they enjoy that type of riding, and the camaraderie..