Fork Crack!

[Matthew Williams]

Hi all, I just found a scary-looking crack in the crown of my Appaloosa’s fork. I have several questions:

1: Is this a structural failure, or just old/deteriorating paint? 

2: Is the fork fixable/salvageable?

3: Is this a common thing i.e. has anyone else experienced this? If so, were you able to/how did you fix it? 

4: Would a fork from a new 57cm Appaloosa fit my older 58cm Appaloosa?

Advice and recommendations welcome.

[iamkeith]

There's a lot or rust going on there, whether it's the only issue or not.  But my first instict is that this should be a forensic evaluation involving Rivendell - not a bunch of arm chair guessing, which is all any of us can do from photos.  You probably don't want to ride it until you know, so why not send it to them (if they agree), and see what they say.  If it's rust or impact related  it might not be fair to consider it a warranty thing, but they could certainly help you figure out how to move forward.

[Joe Bernard]

That looks structural to me. My vague recollection is those forks got beefed up after the first run of Appaloosas so you might want to contact Riv about background on this. 

If the 57 and 58 Appas use the same size wheels then the new fork should fit. 

[Karl Wilcox]

That's metal fatigue-- steel frames do fail, but never catastrophically.  I had this problem with a number of steel frames when I raced.  The problem is generally caused by either over-heating of tubes or, rarely, bad tubing (True Temper released some prone to crack tubes in the 1990's).  The builder probably just got the metal way too hot causing brittleness.  Of all my steel frames, the only frame which has lasted 45 years is a 1977 steel Mercian which was built on an open hearth, thus ensuring that tubes are never overheated.  Having said that, my Rivendell steel frames have not cracked even after many thousands of miles of hard riding.  If I had a fork that cracked like that, I would contact your local frame-builder for advice on repair and costs).    

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/AE7B7D42-14E6-4DBF-8D5D-C3E09815D08D%40gmail.com.

[Eric Norris]

I would stop riding that bike immediately. 

Get a new fork—that one looks like it would be very difficult to repair, and a fork is a high-stress item that will generate catastrophic results if it fails while you’re riding.

--Eric Norris
campyo...@me.com
Insta: @CampyOnlyGuy
YouTube: YouTube.com/CampyOnlyGuy 

On Oct 3, 2022, at 6:53 PM, Karl Wilcox <kwi...@weimar.edu> wrote:

That's metal fatigue-- steel frames do fail, but never catastrophically.  I had this problem with a number of steel frames when I raced.  The problem is generally caused by either over-heating of tubes or, rarely, bad tubing (True Temper released some prone to crack tubes in the 1990's).  The builder probably just got the metal way too hot causing brittleness.  Of all my steel frames, the only frame which has lasted 45 years is a 1977 steel Mercian which was built on an open hearth, thus ensuring that tubes are never overheated.  Having said that, my Rivendell steel frames have not cracked even after many thousands of miles of hard riding.  If I had a fork that cracked like that, I would contact your local frame-builder for advice on repair and costs).    

On Mon, Oct 3, 2022 at 6:07 PM Matthew Williams <matthewwil...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi all, I just found a scary-looking crack in the crown of my Appaloosa’s fork. I have several questions:

1: Is this a structural failure, or just old/deteriorating paint? 

2: Is the fork fixable/salvageable?

3: Is this a common thing i.e. has anyone else experienced this? If so, were you able to/how did you fix it? 

4: Would a fork from a new 57cm Appaloosa fit my older 58cm Appaloosa?

Advice and recommendations welcome.

<IMG_3565.jpg><IMG_3564.jpg><IMG_3568.jpg>

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/AE7B7D42-14E6-4DBF-8D5D-C3E09815D08D%40gmail.com.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CADftY8j9MrbDNr6-qtsLdue9LxnLoMAXC4oLe9wjKVkVtQL8bw%40mail.gmail.com.

[Garth]

The obvious thing to do first is contact Riv as this is by no means in the bounds or anything "normal". If they don't offer a replacement, or recommend a builder inspect it for possible repair, I'd look for a builder that is close to you. If you're near Ohio I'd recommend Jack Trumbull of Franklin Frames as he has done tons of frame repairs for manufacturers and individuals alike. 

[Eric Daume]

A carbon fork wouldn’t have had this problem :)

Eric 

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

[iamkeith]

I think it's plausible that there's just a bunch of rust scale developing under the paint.  Take a drill and wire brush attachment, remove the paint, and see what you have underneath. You'd want to do that to arrest the rust anyway.  All those little "bubbled" areas want to be stripped bare too.   The metal might be pitted but structurally sound.  Do you live in a humid, marine environment by any chance?

When these forks were beefed up after the first batch of appaloosas, i believe  it was the legs that changed - not the crown.  In theory, a stiffer leg would put MORE stress on the crown.  So I don’t think there's a "bad batch" thing at play.

On Tuesday, October 4, 2022 at 5:54:51 AM UTC-6 Eric Daume wrote:

A carbon fork wouldn’t have had this problem :)

Eric 

On Monday, October 3, 2022, Matthew Williams <matthewwil...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi all, I just found a scary-looking crack in the crown of my Appaloosa’s fork. I have several questions:

1: Is this a structural failure, or just old/deteriorating paint? 

2: Is the fork fixable/salvageable?

3: Is this a common thing i.e. has anyone else experienced this? If so, were you able to/how did you fix it? 

4: Would a fork from a new 57cm Appaloosa fit my older 58cm Appaloosa?

Advice and recommendations welcome.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.

[Bill Lindsay]

OP asked a list of questions:

1: Is this a structural failure, or just old/deteriorating paint?   It's one or the other.  Inspect more closely and decide.  Have somebody else do the inspection if you don't trust yourself to do it

2: Is the fork fixable/salvageable?  If it is a paint problem yes.  If it is a structural failure, maybe.  If it is a fixable structural failure the repair may cost more than replacement.  

3: Is this a common thing i.e. has anyone else experienced this? If so, were you able to/how did you fix it?  It's the first I've seen on an Appaloosa.  

4: Would a fork from a new 57cm Appaloosa fit my older 58cm Appaloosa?  Yes it would.  The steerers are long enough for a bunch of spacers.  If it's 1cm shorter than yours, it'll fit with fewer spacers

My recommendation is that you get it into Riv's hands if you can, and let them assist you.  If you can't get it to them directly, call them and figure out what they want you to do.

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

On Monday, October 3, 2022 at 6:07:01 PM UTC-7 Matthew Williams wrote:

[Martin Alvarez]

@Matthew Williams,

Sorry to hear about your fork! Do you frequently ride in rain? How old would you say your frame and fork are? 

I ask as someone who commutes on steel bikes and as a result, has ended up with rust of various amounts on my commuter bikes. 

[Nick Payne]

I had a tandem fork repaired where the crown had cracked. The builder (not the original builder of the tandem) heated the crown enough so that he could remove the steerer and fork blades, cleaned them up, and fitted a new fork crown.

Nick

[Eric Marth]

I'm with others on the thread, contact Riv. Call and then send these pics over to them and see what they say. They probably have a replacement fork they can send you but it might not match the mustard. 

[Matthew Williams]

Hi everyone, thank you for your recommendations and wisdom; I took your advice and sent the photos to the Rivendellers. Said Vince, “It definitely looks like a crack in the fork crown and not just a paint chip. You can't ride on that fork anymore.” Vince wanted a closer look, so we met at the shop early this morning, and Will removed the fork.

The crack is only on the top right side of the fork crown. Vince and his team are going to consult with the factory to determine whether the failure was caused by an impact, a metallurgical defect, a manufacturing or production-related issue, or just mileage. 

Vince gave me a replacement Appaloosa fork! I’m thinking I’ll have it and the frame repainted, and rebuild the bike over the winter so it’s ready to ride in the spring.

To answer some of the questions:

- What kind of riding do you do?

I ride around town, and I often do day trips of 30 to 50 miles, all on paved roads. I don’t jump curbs and the only off-road stuff I’ve ridden has been a few gravel paths and a fire road. In the two years I’ve had the bike, I’ve probably ridden over 3000 miles.

- Have you had any events that may have stressed the fork?

No, I haven’t had any collisions or falls that would have affected the fork. I weigh about 165, I don’t load up the bike up with gear, and I don’t have a front rack. 

- Are you the original owner?

No, I'm the second owner—but the bike was nearly new when I bought it. The original owner had only ridden the bike twice, and I doubt he’d ridden beyond the bike path. The bike was spotless and the build was stock Rivendell, like it had just rolled off the showroom floor.

- Do you live in a wet or marine environment?

I live in the San Francisco Bay Area, but I always keep the bike indoors and I’ve only ridden in the rain once. None of the other spots of exposed metal on the frame have any signs of corrosion.

Thanks again, everyone, for your help. I appreciate it, very much. Special thanks also to Vince and Will and the team at Rivendell—you guys are the best. 

[Karl Wilcox]

The builders overheated that fork-- they did the right thing by replacing the fork.  It has absolutely nothing with 'mileage' or the use of the bike and everyone knows that...  

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/0DD21055-EE46-4EA4-8CB8-79D317C59CCB%40gmail.com.

[Ryan]

Glad this story had a happy ending with the usual excellent customer service of the Riv people. I hope you'll tell us what they say about the cause of failure...not as a knock or anything...just inquiring minds wanting to know. And we want to see what the rebuilt repainted Appaloosa looks like, of course.

At any rate...I am glad nothing bad happened to YOU...that is the main thing

Good luck with the rebuild