Bombadil vs Moonshiner

[maxcr]

Hi Bunch, 

Can you please talk me out of my latest crazy idea. As the title says, I'm considering parting ways with my 2TT blue Bombadil to free up funds and space for a Tanglefoot Moonshiner.

As always, I feel like I have too many bikes and too many projects for my lifestyle and available time. Yet, I find myself looking at bikes and wondering if they would be a better fit for my stable and whether I should give them a try (as an aside I just acquired a NOS Quickbeam prototype built by Curt Goodrich and painted by Joe Bell in a deep cobalt blue which I need to build - why do I keep doing this?).

Back to MTB: The logic is as follows: as beautiful and elusive as the Bombadil is, it is very similar to my Hunqapilar in terms of capabilities. They are both beautiful in their own right, but they are comparable frames. For whatever reason, I'm in love with the Hunqa, it's my most comfortable bike and don't have any plans to sell it so it's the Bomba that might go to the chopping block. Now, the Moonshiner is described as a bike for 'super chunky ATV trails'. To be honest, I don't go out to the mountains in Vermont (or anywhere else) that often, but I am sometimes tempted by the rides organized by Analog Cycles and I feel like might end up underbiking with my 2.1" Thunderburts on the Hunqa.

This might be heresy for this group, since the moonshiner would have more modern components, disc brakes and 3" tires. I don't have much experience with any of these new fancy looking parts, but for context I'm looking at this: https://analogcycles.com/products/tanglefoot-moonshiner-large-demo-sram-gx-rival-12-speed (another cool alternative would be a Jones spaceframe)

The biggest con to this whole endeavor is that if I sell the Bomba, it's unlikely that I could replace it later since they just don't come up for sale ever and I don't want to regret letting it go.

What do you all think?

Thanks

Max

[Franco Rinaldi]

When I’m in Vermont with that crew, as I am a lot, my hardtack is the only bike that makes sense of the class iv shenanigans. And sometimes I use it on singletrack for speed sessions.

Love my rivs the tanglefoot excels where most people don’t go.

Franco Rinaldi 

c:  646.403.0661 

-Pardon any typos, Siri typed this message-

On Mar 11, 2025, at 12:50 PM, maxcr <max.fai...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Bunch, 

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[David Ross]

Unfortunately, I can’t talk you out of it. I would definitely consider myself a Luddite, and my favorite bike is my Gus. That said, if you want to start doing something like riding ATV trails, a Moonshiner or a Jones would be much better, particularly given tire clearances and disk brakes. Personally, I’m not down with the drop bar thing for that type of riding, but I do own a Jones and it’s just perfection geometry-wise. I resisted buying a Jones for years because they’re not the best looking bikes in my opinion, but Jones is an amazingly well designed system that includes a handlebar specifically designed for a the frame’s geometry. I’d definitely give the nod to the Moonshiner on aesthetics, but you can never go wrong with a Jones. 

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[Max Faingezicht]

Agreed on the aesthetics! Also, I have a Jones bar on my hunqa and I think it's the most comfortable bike ever

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Max Faingezicht

[George Schick]

Interesting bike, this Moonshiner.  Also interesting replies from some Riv owners. I find it fascinating that, viewing the pics of the Moonshiner on their website, that it's set up with 3" tires and, amazingly more so, drop bars on an off-road bike like that.  Geez... you'd think that would be a travesty among Riv-ish types with their absolute penchant for large upright, swoopy bars mounted to mile high stems for bikes like this.  Wonders never cease ...

[Bill Lindsay]

Max

I've got two things to say:

1. First a hot take: It's 2025; the Bombadil is a road bike.  It is possibly the nicest backroads loaded touring bike ever made.  That's what it is.  There are much much better dirt bikes than the Bombadil.  The Bombadil is one of a kind, possibly never to be matched, but it's a road bike.  It's an incredible bike, a valuable bike, and a very hard bike to replace, but it's a road bike.  An overbuilt and beautiful road bike.  Categories get blurred, but we could call it an all-road bike, or a country bike, but it is not a mountain bike, or even a hillibike.  

2. Riding on SOFT anything requires WIDE tires, IMO.  Running truly WIDE tires requires disc brakes.  That's just the way things work.  Whether it's a Tanglefoot or a La Cabra, or something else, a drop bar bike for soft stuff is simply not a Rivendell.  There are lots of great bikes out there to do that.

If somebody would sell me back my ORANGE powder coated 56cm Bombadil, I would set it up as my loaded touring bike.  My search through the list tells me that Max's Bombadil is a 60cm, so I'm not going to make an offer on it.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito CA

[Garth]

I must say the Moonshine sure does look rather good in that color combo ! 3" tires would certainly open up more possibilities for terrain. I wouldn't worry abut the "new" parts on it, you'd figure it out. Gotta start somewhere. As a now drop bar well below the saddle Bomba rider, all I can say is drop bars for rough terrain is awesome. It's not anything new as drop bar mtb's date back to the 80's.

[Richard Rose]

Bill L mentioned LaCabra. By all accounts a swell bike that might fit the bill? And on sale right now (?) for a bargain price. Also & for what it’s worth; Jones are fantastic - loved mine. But I sold mine along with other bikes to get my Gus. Jones was my favorite ever MTB - until I got the Gus.

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 11, 2025, at 3:10 PM, Garth <gart...@gmail.com> wrote:

I must say the Moonshine sure does look rather good in that color combo ! 3" tires would certainly open up more possibilities for terrain. I wouldn't worry abut the "new" parts on it, you'd figure it out. Gotta start somewhere. As a now drop bar well below the saddle Bomba rider, all I can say is drop bars for rough terrain is awesome. It's not anything new as drop bar mtb's date back to the 80's.

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[J G]

Just a couple of thoughts to share as someone who had a custom built similar to this back in 2016:

This bike will take 4" 26er tires or 3" 27.5 and is currently pictured with 4" x 26.

Built to be a low Q, pure drop bar off road bike as an experiment and alternative to all of the proper dirt drop setups I run.  If you have seen my comments on this subject here before, I draw a significant distinction between drop bar and dirt drop setups.  This was designed around Cowchippers and it is fine for rolling doubletrack, but it is not fun for real aggressive singletrack.  Riding hoods for technical trails is painful on my wrists and the curved drops provide poor ramps as a comfortable platform.  I tried to channel my inner Tomac and it was not fun.  I love dirt drops for off road, but hate traditional drops and associated setups for such when off-road is rocky, rooty and technical.  Chunky ATV trails might be just fine however.  For my use cases, bike refit with LD and Woodchippers.

Woodchippers are the finest off road drop bar I have used (Have run WTB, Midge etc.) and the long flat ramps and a setup where the drops are the only position with levers optimized allows for a loose grip in the hooks, a ton of control and the ability to move your weight fore and aft on the long ramps. 

Jones bars getting some love here as well and I will pile on to that.  If I am not running Woodchippers, I am generally running Jones and have even had custom Jones sweep bars built by Black Sheep for one of my Rivs.  Jones bikes are great as well although mine is a Spaceframe from the early days with Merlin so strictly SWB experience here.

Good luck with your decision and let your riding style and terrain you frequent determine what will work best for you.  Have fun and keep the shiny side up!

-Justus

Mpls, MN

[Richard Rose]

Ryan Frahm might have something to say on this subject? Think he sold a Susie & got a Hardtack or a Moonshiner. Not sure.

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 11, 2025, at 4:39 PM, J G <cjus...@gmail.com> wrote:

Just a couple of thoughts to share as someone who had a custom built similar to this back in 2016:

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<IMG_0021 (4) 2.JPG>

[P W]

All I know is…

I have a buyer for that Bombadil if you do ever wind up selling it!

P. W.

~

(917) 514-2207

~

On Mar 11, 2025, at 9:50 AM, maxcr <max.fai...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Bunch, 

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[Laing Conley]

Selling a Bombadil to get a TIG frame just seems wrong, kind of like selling a classic Porsche to get a Hyundai. What about selling all the components off of the Bombadil and retaining the frame, if it is mostly a financial consideration. I had to google what a Moonshiner is, and my first reaction was, “Why not a Jones?”

But I am a guy with 26 bikes (one of them is a Bombadil) who lives in Florida, so what do I know?

Laing 

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[Franco Rinaldi]

I’ve ridden them both. Jones is sick cause it give you the option of a fat tire upfront. Sick for snow riding.

Franco Rinaldi 

c:  646.403.0661 

-Pardon any typos, Siri typed this message-

On Mar 11, 2025, at 6:02 PM, Laing Conley <laing...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Eric Daume]

You guys are making me miss my Jones LWB. Both of them.

Eric

On Tue, Mar 11, 2025 at 2:28 PM David Ross <dros...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Richard Rose]

Moonshiner is designed around shallow drops. Jones is quite different. I think.

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 11, 2025, at 6:02 PM, Laing Conley <laing...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[ian m]

I've definitely been missing my Jones LWB, the most regretted bike sale I've ever made.

From the info I've paid attention to, Jeff Jones has an incredibly intelligent and intuitive design philosophy for his bikes. Lets' just say that's not the vibe I get for the other

[J J]

Max, we’ve had a lot of conversations about how special our Hunqs are, and I feel the same way about your Bombadil — it really is a kindred spirit, but even rarer. I have to say it publicly: the Bomba feels too special, almost like a unicorn bicycle, to part with. It’s one of the few Rivendells that has truly reached mythical status, and for good reason. If I wasn’t already feeling a bit “over biked” with plans for a new build, I’d be knocking on your door right now trying to convince you to sell it to me. A Bomba is just what it is — it doesn’t try to be anything else, and that’s what makes it so great. It is unlikely that Rivendell will produce another bike with the characteristics and proportions that make the Bomba (and Hunqapillars) so special, though I hope I’m wrong about that. If you’re looking for a bike more suited to Vermont’s rough terrain, go for it. But unless someone makes an offer you just can’t pass up, or unless you truly don’t have the mental or physical space for an extra bike, I don’t see any reason to let the Bomba go.

Jim

[maxcr]

Thanks everyone for the thoughtful posts and the private messages. Wow, there's a lot to parse through here, but I think what really got me are Bill's comments around it being " the nicest backroads loaded touring bike ever made" and also it being a country bike, not a mountain bike. Also Garth's comment on selling a lugged "Bombadil to get a TIG frame just seems wrong" got to me somehow. 

Maybe I've been comparing apples to oranges which makes me think the Bombadil should stay and be ridden for what it was built, without it trying to be something else or fill a different gap. I'm leaning towards keeping it for now and deciding if it gets used enough or not (there's already a healthy list of RBW folks that fit and expressed interest in case a sale is in the horizon).

Another thing I might do is go visit the folks at Analog to test drive their Moonshiner with monster tires and drops to see how it feels before making any hasty decisions. Also, not sure if it's feasible but maybe I'll try to test drive a Jones, because now that I think of it perhaps it's an even better choice if I'm willing to go outside of the Riv aesthetic.

Thanks again everyone and I'll report back if any changes occur in the fleet.

Max

On Tuesday, March 11, 2025 at 8:13:43 PM UTC-4 ian m wrote:

[Sally Bidleman]

For what it's worth: we love our Platypus and Clem but have a Jones spaceframe on order that we can share!

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[John Johnson]

The comparison between the Jones SWB and Moonshiner was something I thought about a lot. I had a Gen 1 Moonshiner on pre-order and finally backed out. James at Analog was nothing but super nice about it, but I'm embarassed to not have followed through. I opted out because the timing was bad for me, but also because I got less enamored with the idea of flat mount disc brakes and a high bottom bracket, and I thought the fork looked a bit overbuilt. But those are probably positive features for certain people. 

More recently, I got a used Jones SWB spaceframe, and I couldn't be more satisfied with it (well, perhaps that's not true - I like to change things around on my bikes, handlebars, pedals, etc. for fun and for looks, but there is no need nor urge to with the Jones, because 1. it's much more a function over form kinda bike, and 2. the fit, esp with the Loop H-Bar is perfect, I don't find myself searching for a better or more comfortable fit, ever). 

I have a Clem too, that I ride much more as a do-it-all around town and around locals trails bike. But if I'm going into the woods or if it's muddy out (which is pretty much 6 months out of the year where I live), I prefer/need the big tires on the Jones. It's a very capable offroad bike. 

FWIW, the geo is pretty similar between the two (at least the SM Moonshiner and M Jones SWB - I have no idea if this is consistent across sizes, since bikeinsights doesn't have info on a large Jones SWB), with one big difference: the bottom bracket height is 25mm lower on the Jones (or 25mm higher on the Moonshiner as the case may be). Here's the obligatory screenshot from bikeinsights (Jones in black). 

I can't say anything on how the Moonshiner rides, but Bikepacking gave a great review.

Otherwise, I did just buy a La Cabra from Black Mountain Cycles while they were on sale, which I'm building up to run 27.5x2.8 wheels, just like the Jones, to feed the demons that want to change around components as well as to have a 2nd adventure bike for when my wife and I (we have the same saddle height and reach - it's very convenient) go on adventures so she can take the Jones (which she more or less has already commandeered from me). 

Obligatory bikeinsights comparison of the BMC and SWB:

Otherwise, I'm with everyone else on holding on the Bombadil for posterity. 

cheers,

John (in rainy Seine-et-Marne)

[Brian Turner]

I’m surprised there’s not as much talk here about the LWB Jones, since many of us are accustomed to the benefits of a longer wheelbase. I do not like to ride technical trails, with lots of gnarly features, so even though a Moonshiner was in contention when I was considering my Gus, I’m glad I opted for the Gus because it fits my more mellow style of trail riding better, and is an all-around more versatile option for me than a dedicated trail bike like a Jones. But man, the first time I experienced the confident climbing and descending capability of the long wheelbased Gus, it was a revelation.

All that said, the Moonshiner is a rad bike, and if I had disposable income and storage space, I would probably own a Ti Spaceframe!

Brian
Lexington KY

[Jay Lonner]

It’s not surprising that Riv enthusiasts are going to advocate for keeping the Bombadil. But as you point out there’s a lot of overlap between the Bombadil and your Hunqapillar. I suspect a lot of the Bombadil love is motivated by some combination of nostalgia and scarcity. In my own life I’ve noticed that a scarcity mindset can lead to hoarding, which broadly speaking is bad — in this case it ties up your own resources (space/money) and keeps the Bombadil out of the hands of other potential owners who might end up getting a lot more use out of it than you currently do. Variety is good, so I say ditch the Bombadil and use the proceeds to get something different that you might love even more. Tanglefoot, Jones, and BMC all sound like great options.

Jay Lonner

Bellingham, WA

Sent from my Atari 400

On Mar 11, 2025, at 6:16 PM, maxcr <max.fai...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks everyone for the thoughtful posts and the private messages. Wow, there's a lot to parse through here, but I think what really got me are Bill's comments around it being " the nicest backroads loaded touring bike ever made" and also it being a country bike, not a mountain bike. Also Garth's comment on selling a lugged "Bombadil to get a TIG frame just seems wrong" got to me somehow. 

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[Patrick Moore]

Justus: what is the Q factor on your custom? 

One reason I eventually gave up getting a 700C X 80 mm / 3” tire custom to replace the Monocog 29er (road drop bar!!) was the hassle of keeping Q to no more than 160 mm with the 700C wheels — I like 700C off road (road bikes are 26”). That and because I finally decided after droning on and on about it for years that I really prefer mixed pavement and dirt rides and I found 700cX50 knobbies that excel at pavement handling, roll surprisingly well on pavement, and suffice to navigate most of my sandy dirt routes (with multiple gears; if the sand gets to be more than about 3” and 100 yards and can’t be negotiated by a quick shift to the granny ring I just get off and walk.

But man, 3” tires at 13 psi (at least, mine maxed out a 2.8” on the 24 mm OW rims) were very nice indeed for our sandy trails and, the very few times I tried it, on fields of baseball sized rocks.

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Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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[Patrick Moore]

After learning caution from decades of buying dear and selling cheap, if I were in your shoes, I’d be inclined to keep the Bombadil for a year or 2 after getting the Moonshiner because you never know, you may get tired of the Moonshiner and be glad you still have the Bombadil. Or sell the parts from the Bombadil and spend the money on the Moonshiner, but keep the Bombadil frame.

The Moonshiner is going to be a rather specialized bike as you don’t need 3” tires for most off road riding. Where 3” tires do very well (mine were 700C) is in sand; I could sit and push a 65” geared single speed with 72 mm tires at 12-15 psi pretty easily through 4” sand where even 60 mm tires at 17 would bog down and require frantic standing or downshifting.

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[J G]

As it is designed around a nominal 4" tire, even with the use of Deda vertical chainstays and WI road cranks, best I could get was a scant 180mm actual, as measured.  Probably 182mm math-wise.  The use of a yoke and/or limiting to 3" tires would certainly provide more opportunities to bring it in.

If I still raced and ever really cared, I would only ride my 29ers (and would actually consider FS, which I have avoided to date), but riding a lot of tight, twisty, rocky and rooty trails in the mid-west and New England, I really still enjoy both 26ers and 650b as well.  26ers are playful and the 650 bikes do strike a good middle ground, even if I feel they lean more towards the 26 end of things.

Big fan of wide rims for mountain biking.

Overall, horses for courses.

[Ben Miller]

I really appreciated Jay's point regarding nostalgia and scarcity. I know it's a trap I fall into. Sometimes I want to fall into, and that's all right, but its still a trap. 

As for the overall question though: What about Tanglefoot/Analog's Bull Thistle instead of the Moonshiner?? Pretty similar idea/concept, but a much more Riv-ish lugged frame. I definitely ogled it a bit when I first saw it, but I already have a Crust Scapegoat that fills my Plus-sized tyre/drop-bar rigid MTB niche.