Will Cliffhangers leave me hanging?

[Curtis McKenzie]

Hello,

Looking for some Cliffhanger wisdom.  It seems that I am having a good amount of trouble mounting Schwalbe Marathons on my Cliffhangers.  So much so that I worry about a tire change in the field, such as the Oregon Outback, and been stranded.  I am now carrying a large screwdriver to get the leverage  needed to mount the last bit of tire on the rim.  Have not pinched more that two tubes in the last fifty years of flat fixing.  Yesterday, I pinched two and scratched the heck out of the rim.  Not to mention bending the cool aluminum CyclePro tire levers that I have had since high school.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Curtis

[Josiah Anderson]

Hi Curtis,

With Cliffhangers (and most other tubeless compatible rims) you generally need to pinch the beads together so that both sides sit in the well in the center of the rim before you try to get the last bit of bead onto the rim. Were you already doing that? I've never had issues with Cliffhangers using that strategy.

Josiah Anderson 

Missoula MT 

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[Eric Daume]

If your tires are narrow enough (less than 38mm or so) the Kool Stop tire jack is great to lever that last section of bead on. I carry it with me on bikes with difficult tire/rim combos. 

Eric

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[Joe Bernard]

It's the Marathons leaving you hanging, I despise the damn things. Once you get them on they're practically impervious to flatting but you gotta get em on there first! 

[Brian Turner]

Marathons are like the anti-supple tire. Sure, they resist flats and are long-wearing... but they've always made every bike I've ever put them on feel like an unforgiving chunk of metal.

Brian

[aeroperf]

I’m with the others regarding the Marathons.  I’ve had trouble putting them on Atlas and Dyads, too.  I carry a couple of the plastic tire “irons”, but only when I have Marathons on.
To me, they also feel like I’m riding through mud.  But I wouldn’t have anything else for a tour.

[Ed Carolipio]

I've had similar problems with the Cliffhangers and other tubeless compatible rims. Two things I did to make life easier: (1) ensure the tire bead is in the center channel, as Josiah pointed out; and (2) use a thin plastic tubeless rim tape (Stan's, Velocity, Muc-Off) even when running tubes and limit it at one layer. Never use the cloth rim tape (like Velox) and avoid the rubber rim strips (like Ritchey).

You didn't mention if you had a wire bead or folding bead tires. Wire beads are hit-and-miss with different rims. I've found I have a lot less trouble with folding bead tires.

You also didn't mention which Marathons you're running. IMO the base Marathons are the ones folks abhor. I opt for the highest option Marathons, which used to be the Marathon Supremes but currently I think are Almotions, and always in a folding bead. It's a much more supple and lighter tire with similar flat performance and durability. I haven't had direct experince with the Mondials but people speak highly of those when touring off road.

--Ed Carolipio

Redondo Beach, CA

On Thursday, December 28, 2023 at 8:46:32 AM UTC-8 Curtis wrote:

[Max Faingezicht]

Marathon Supremes have been quite supple and easy to mount for me

Max

On Dec 28, 2023, at 3:24 PM, Ed Carolipio <ed.car...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[John Bokman]

I have found the Marathon Supremes (700x35 and 700x38) to be great for urban riding/touring purposes. But, they are now sadly discontinued. The "replacement" is the Marathon "efficiency" which I can't quite get my head around...Another tire that I now enjoy for such purposes is the Panaracer Pasella Protite. Less expensive, great rolling, maybe not quite as flat-resistant, but so far so good (fingers crossed). I had used the original Pasellas, but found them to be flat-prone. The new ones seem to roll as well, but be much more flat-prone. Of course, I'm not riding on shoulders of highways where lots of tire and shrapnel conspire to deflate tires.

https://www.schwalbetires.com/Marathon-Efficiency-11654366

https://www.panaracerusa.com/products/pasela-protite-folding-urban-commuter-tire

FWIW, have haven't had trouble mounting Schwalbes (Marathon Green Guard, Marathon Supreme, Marathon Mondial) on Velocity Dyads nor Quill. They were a bit tougher to mount on Sun Rims (CR 18, I believe?). I think the key is to get the tire beads well into the center of the wheel well before proceeding with mounting.

John, Portland OR

[Bernard Duhon]

Those tubless ready rims can be a pain.

When I am going on a multi day ride I bring this tire jack.

It only fits in large saddle bags but is worth the space.

Kool Stop Tire Bead Jack With Handle (Black) - Dan's Comp (danscomp.com)

 

Second place is the picture attached . I don’t know where I bought it but It has to be used with care as It will bend out of shape so you have to back it up with your hand .

 

Third place

Amazon.com : Crankbrothers Dunarri Speedier Lever , Black : Cycling Tire Repair Kits : Sports & Outdoors

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[John Rinker]

I haven't had any problems mounting tires, but I've got a pair of WTB Nanos that are clinging for dear life. They won't even let me push their bead from the rim. They truly love the Cliffhangers.

Cheers, John

[Piaw Na]

Those Nanos are the most frustrating tires I've ever had to change out. It took me 2 days to get them off my son's Salsa Journeyman. Granted, those rims are the awful tubeless ready rims which contribute to the problem. I even had to rest my thumbs in between wheels!

I've had Marathons come on the bike and bent aluminum tire levers getting them off to fix them. Never again! My philosophy now is that I'd rather get flats more often and have them be easy to fix in the field than to have unflattable tires that also are unfixable in the field when they do flat.

[Will Boericke]

I'll agree that I think the problem is the marriage of shallow, tubeless-ready rim with a pretty stout tire like the Marathon.  I remember my first set of Pacenti SL23s and how difficult mounting tires on those rims was.  I carry a Var bead jack with me to this day as a result, though I think my tire mounting technique has improved through the years of tubeless adoption.  In your case, I would definitely change rim tape if you're still using cloth.  In the things-you-probably-know category, I've had best luck starting opposite the valve stem so that the last bit of bead over the edge is at the valve and I can push the tube up out of the way.  I often use tire levers for this last bit, which I think is heretical among certain bikers.  

If they continue to be an issue, I'd be inclined to try a lighter tire and perhaps a tubeless setup.  It really works well at high volume and frequent use; problems happen when you stray from those two conditions.

Will

[John Rinker]

Yes, Piaw, this particular combo of tire and rim can be a very frustrating interface to break if a tire needs removal, and I agree that being able to fix your tires far afield is critical. The internet is full of advice on using a vice to pinch the bead away from the rim, but who carries a vice in their saddlebag?

There's a very easy way to break this seal. Though I am loathe to put any kind of a blade near my tires, I find that the large, flat screwdriver blade of my Swiss Army covered with a bit of Gorilla tape is the ticket. The blade is already relatively smooth and dull, and the tape makes it more so. Carefully slipping this in the very tight space between the bead and the rim and then a slow, gentle twist easily pops the seal. No scratches on the rim, no damage to the tire, and no pokes in the tube! 

Since I always have my Swiss Army with me, repairs in the field are possible and frustration-free.

But, I don't think this will help at all, Curtis, with your Marathon/Cliffhanger conundrum.

Cheers, John