Alternatives to Snoqualmie Pass?

[Adam]

Hi all,

Too many holes in the tread of my snoqualmie pass ELs, time to move them on.

Asking the timeless question: which tires should I buy for the Hillborne?

I see endless variations of "gravel" tires in this size range. Anyone find anything that compares well to the Rene Herse stuff? I found gravel kings noticeably slower and less plush. I'm thinking about trying the Terra Speeds that are on sale a few places.

Other ideas? I'm inclined towards slightly knobby, but have been doing OK with the file tread.

Thanks,

Adam

[Eliot Balogh]

I’m curious to hear what others say. Nothing will be AS plush but you should be able to find a trade off for slightly more grip in exchange for slightly worse road feel.

I always liked the Vittoria Terreno Dry in 650b but I don’t know how they translate to 700c.

I’m just starting my own frustrating but blissful journey with RH SP.

Other tires I considered were the Specialized Pathfinder Pro and Schwalbe G-One RS. 

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[Patrick Moore]

What is the actual width of well used Snoqualmie Passes? (And on what width rim?)

I considered these as narrower alternatives to the beautifully rolling but wallowy 60 MM Big Ones but found a few remaining 48 mm (50-51 mm actual on 35 mm OW rims) 360 gram Soma Supple Vitesse SL instead.

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Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

[John Rinker]

Hello Eliot,

'I’m just starting my own frustrating but blissful journey with RH SP.'

Just wondering what has been frustrating about your experience with the Snoqualmies?

Cheers, John

[Adam]

 My tires are around 40-41mm on Dyads (19mm, I think).

Great feel, fast, horrible in mud, great in everything else, maybe a little too fragile for what they enable me to ride.

I'm going to try the Terra Speed see how it goes. The price on those is very good at the moment, and I'd feel OK with those under 52mm fenders, I think.

[Piaw Na]

I've been running the Terraspeed 40mm (measuring 38mm on my A23 rims). I have no stomach for the prices Rene Herse charges for their tires, but I don't think the Terra Speed are going to satisfy you if you're riding in mud. My experience with the Terraspeed is that in mud, you're going to spin the tires for about half a pedal stroke before the tire sinks enough into the mud to bite. It's a bit disconcerting, but here in California mud doesn't happen often and I want the lightest possible tire because every ride here starts with a 2000' climb.

[Adam]

Thanks, I'll see how the Terra Speeds compare. I agree about price, it's just too much for something expendable.

I'm not looking for mud tires at all, just thought I'd throw my overall take on the Herse tires. I'm skeptical that the Terra Speed.onobs do much of anything, but we'll see.

[Josh (BertoBerg)]

Hello All-

I am just coming off of 1200 miles with the Snoqualmie Pass Extralight tires. 

____________

Goods:

Ride was great, 

Speed was great

Weight was great

Handled all of the gravel I could throw at it

Bads:

Had to put extra sealant in them several times just to get them to hold air. I used the RH recommended Panaracer sealant

If you had to deflate the tire for any reason they wouldn't seal again until you added more sealant.

Super susceptible to glass punctures.

After getting three or four punctures in the last few hundred miles I called it quits.

Having to clean sealant off my legs, back, and bike.

Price (Obviously)

_____________

I switched over to Continental Terra Speed 40mm tires. They are significantly heavier and way less plush but they hold air. Once you get them up to speed they roll pretty fast though.

Josh

Bainbridge Island, WA

[Ted Durant]

On Thursday, August 17, 2023 at 8:42:48 PM UTC-5 Adam wrote:

Asking the timeless question: which tires should I buy for the Hillborne?

I have had nothing but VERY positive experiences with Rene Herse tires and I don't think their prices are out of line with other options. I've been getting thousands of kilometers out of their tires with EL casings and no more punctures than expected, with the caveat that if you try to push the life too far the tread gets very thin and the punctures will start to come more often. My two Sams are 650B, one of them on Gravel King slicks and the other on Ultradynmico Cava JFF. I've ridden the Gravel Kings on mixed road/gravel/hiking trail, including some very hilly stuff, and I think they're pretty much the equivalent of standard or endurance casing RH. I've ridden the Cavas on dirt and pavement with some reasonably steep stuff and I don't like them nearly as much. Only a few hundred kms on each, so far, so can't say anything about the durability.  None of them have any traction in mud. If that's an important issue, I'm a big fan of the tread on RH knobby tires, which I've been using in the winter on my Breadwinner G-Road. They're certainly not as silent as Jan would have you believe, but they're not slow.

I don't think there is any component that has a bigger impact on how a bike feels than tires.

Ted Durant

Milwaukee WI USA

[Ted Durant]

On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 9:40:45 AM UTC-5 Ted Durant wrote:

I have had nothing but VERY positive experiences with Rene Herse tires

I should add that most of my experience is with tubes, but I have done tubeless with some RH EL and std casing tires, and I've gone back to using tubes. I found using sealant to be finicky and messy and more trouble than it's worth. Maybe that's 'cuz they were RH tires, but I found zero benefit from tubeless, living in a thorn-free part of the world.

 

Ted Durant

Milwaukee, WI USA

[Josh (BertoBerg)]

Ted (and All)-

I don't think I've ever gotten more than 1500 miles out of a set of Extralights. By the that time the rear tire is usually slick and both tires have several tread slashes in them. 

I've had a lot of luck with the Barlow Passes (running tubeless) in standard casing however.

-Josh

[Piaw Na(藍俊彪)]

On Fri, Aug 18, 2023 at 7:40 AM Ted Durant <tedd...@gmail.com> wrote:

I have had nothing but VERY positive experiences with Rene Herse tires and I don't think their prices are out of line with other options. 

 I think that's only true if you pay retail for your tires. I don't. It's very common to find Continental tires well below MSRP (https://bikecloset.com/product/continental-terra-speed-700-x-40-cream-sidewall-fold-protection-tr-black-chili/ sells the Terraspeed for $40). Try finding Rene Herse tires for anywhere close to that price. You can't. I can buy 4 Terraspeed tires for the price of a pair of Rene Herse tires. The difference is just as extreme if you compare Continental GP5000 700x32 against the Rene Herse equivalents.

I'm a cheapskate though, and don't hesitate to run $10 SRAM 11s chains when I can find them, and back before tires were cheap in the US I'd import them from England or other places in Europe where there's significant price competition for bike parts. At one point when Avocet was going out of business I bought a 3 year supply of their tires at $10/pop.

[Ted W]

My experience with RH tires (tubeless) is that their dual-purpose tires are more durable than their all-road tires. I have always used the endurance casing versions and found that I constantly get punctures on their all-roads (most recently with the Naches Pass). On the other hand, their dual-purpose knobbies (such as Oracle Ridge and Fleecer Ridge) last much longer.

I’m sure riding surface and environment makes a large difference. My riding tends to be mostly urban, mixed surface. I probably encounter more glass and other sharp objects than some people.

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Ted Wood < ted.l...@gmail.com >

[Bernard Duhon]

 

 

Bernard F. Duhon

 

Ditto on only 1500 miles on the Renée hearse Extralights

 

However I have the endurance plus and they seem to be holding up well though only a few hundred miles on them

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[Josh (BertoBerg)]

Piaw-

That's exactly where I got my Terra Speeds! $98/shipped. Obviously, RH is a MUCH smaller company than Continental so I understand why their prices are higher and why you can't find their products deeply discounted.

Ted Wood-

I've only punctured an RH while road riding, commuting, etc. I've gone over plenty of super-chunk gravel at high speeds without an issue though.

[Eliot Balogh]

They set up just fine but the rear will lose 10 psi over a few hours. 

Going to retape and see what happens. 

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[Josh (BertoBerg)]

Eliot-

Out of curiosity, what sealant are you using?

[Eliot Balogh]

The vegan hypoallergenic farm raised stuff with crushed organic walnut shells and unicorn tears…

Panaracer 

On Fri, Aug 18, 2023 at 9:46 AM Josh (BertoBerg) <josh.yo...@gmail.com> wrote:

Eliot-

Out of curiosity, what sealant are you using?

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[Josh (BertoBerg)]

Haha...the unicorn tears is what really seals them up!

I've typically used the Panaracer sealant but I'm going to Silca's sealant next time. I've had a lot of luck with it.

[Piaw Na(藍俊彪)]

On Fri, Aug 18, 2023 at 9:43 AM Josh (BertoBerg) <josh.yo...@gmail.com> wrote:

That's exactly where I got my Terra Speeds! $98/shipped. Obviously, RH is a MUCH smaller company than Continental so I understand why their prices are higher and why you can't find their products deeply discounted.

That's not what's going on. Panaracer's not a small company either and they're the manufacturer. What's happening is that you're paying for both Panaracer and Rene Herse's profits. That, and Rene Herse has tighter control over discounting happening to their dealer network than Continental does.

 

[Keith P.]

I've was reading this thread thinking, "I've never had a flat on my Snoqualmie Passes."

Jinxed myself and caught one this morning:

I have been super happy with them, but have also been wanting to try some Bruce Gordon Rock n' Roads.

Those may be more knobby than you are slightly inclined, and perhaps too heavy, but they've been on my mind so I mention them here.

[Adam]

No flats!

I had two on one ride earlier in the week--that was the prompt for this thread. To be fair, my rear tire has lots of holes and cuts and has been through plenty, so I"m not shocked.

FWIW, my favorite mud/dirt setup has been Hurricane Ridge front, Snoqualmie Pass rear--the only issue for me is that I like having fenders, and don't feel great about 52mm fenders over the Hurricane Ridge offroad.

[scott minor]

I've been riding Snoqualnie Pass standard casings tubeless on my Homer with nary a flat until recently, and after the 3rd flat this summer I have retired them. They had a good life but now seem too worn to keep going reliably.  The rear eventually stretches a couple mm's in width over time which last year prompted a front/rear flip, but now both are stretched which might just be the tell tale sign they are done.  

Currently riding 38mm Gravel King SS (lighter than SK) in preparation for fender season (52mm fender max w center pull brakes) instead of Barlow pass, just to try them out.  I like them so far!  but already thinking I'll get another set of Snoqualmies next summer when the fenders come back off.  There's just nothing else like them that I have found...  They have just the right amount of air volume for my size (over 200 lbs) and suit the pressure I like to ride (44 psi), are very fast and quiet.  Might be my favorite tire for all around riding.

[Piaw Na]

On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 12:13:56 PM UTC-7 psc...@gmail.com wrote:

I've been riding Snoqualnie Pass standard casings tubeless on my Homer with nary a flat until recently, and after the 3rd flat this summer I have retired them. They had a good life but now seem too worn to keep going reliably.  The rear eventually stretches a couple mm's in width over time which last year prompted a front/rear flip, but now both are stretched which might just be the tell tale sign they are done.  

The tell-tale sign for me that tires are done is that you've worn through the rubber and are now into the cords (see attached picture). Stretching is no reason to retire a tire --- if that's the sign for wear then after a couple of days my tires are worn since they always stretch! If you're retiring tires just because of 1-2mm of stretch (bulges are another story --- those are indicative of a failure about to happen) then you're prematurely retiring tires.  Now, certain tires (notably Continental tires) have sidewalls so weak that you're more likely to retire them from sidewall failure than from tread wear. I haven't run any panaracers long enough to know whether that's the case for them.

[Adam]

Thanks for all the thoughts. I'm definitely curious how things would be different tubeless, but am on Dyads, so not happening soon--unless someone has a tubeless wheelset they want to trade for Dyads . . .

The update here is that I did get the Terra Speeds in 40mm. FWIW, a better comparison would be the Steilacooms (38 RH knobbies right?).

They are fast on the road--no exact measurements, but they didn't feel horribly slow coming from Snoqualmie ELs. They have a much lighter steering feel--more like the RH 38mm as opposed to the 44mm--I like that change. I adjusted to the road feel of the Snoqualmies, but it always felt clunky, like it took extra effort for turns, hard to make quick adjustments.

Off road, the traction is decent, got me through a few muddy underpasses that the herse tires can't handle. They feel tougher than the RH tires in my hand, but IDK what that really means. The biggest negative is volume. They are MUCH smaller than the snoqualmie passes, and it really shows up in gravel washes, sand, etc, where the Terra Speeds CUT and twist into things that the Herse tires float right over. (not a fair comparison, the 38mm RH tires have this same issue, maybe slightly less so)

Overall, I'm not sure. My favorite combo is still Hurricane Ridge EL front, Snoqualmie Pass EL rear, but the tight fit in front under my fenders is sketchy, and can't seem to avoid cuts, sidewall gashes, etc.

I'm curious if anyone's tried the Terra Speed 45mm? That might be interesting. Right now, the 40mm, must be around 36-38mm, but maybe they'll stretch out closer to 40.

enough tire nerding

Adam

[Eliot Balogh]

There’s never enough tire nerding. 

I’m going to check out the Spec Pathfinder Pro that people are so fond of. 

I ended up retaping my wheels since I had a very slow leak with the Snoqualmie Pass rear. It seemed to hold for a few hours and then dipped to the 20s like usual. It’s not the worst thing but I hate losing that much tire pressure over the course of a ride. 

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[arthur]

Somebody mentioned them earlier, I think Patrick -- the Soma Supple Vitesse EXs are awesome tires. I've ridden the 48s which Patrick has, I still ride the 700x x 38 and 42mm....I'm pretty sensitive to suppleness and speed in tires, the Supple Vitesse's are *very nearly* the equal of the RH Barlow Passes....by 'very nearly' I mean nearly indistinguishable. And they're $35 a piece from Soma! I highly recommend them.

The Challenge Strada Biancas in similar sizes are also really, really nice (not the handmade ones): great, very, very supple tires. And you can often find them discounted for around 50 dollars.

Art

[Patrick Moore]

All: If anyone has any good to new Soma Supple Vitesse SL tires (360 gram model) in 622X48 mm to sell, I'm interested.

Arthur and everyone else: How do the SSV EXs compare to the SSV SLs? I gather the the EXs have a slightly thicker tread are are about 50 grams heavier; do they roll as well as their 360 gram sibling?

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Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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