Nivex on a Rivendell?

[Marty Gierke, Stewartstown PA]

The Nivex is on the market now, and I really like the look of it. Even at $729.00 it feels like money well spent if you want something a little different and appreciate all that goes into making something like this. KUDOs to Jan for sticking with it. 

Nivex Rear

For a custom Rivendell, it might make for a very sweet build. If my ship comes in I'd be tempted to spring for one, but I'll hold out until I see the new Riv rear derailer. 

Marty

[Bill Lindsay]

I hereby submit a pre-emptive APPROVE to the first person to run a Nivex RD on a Rivendell.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Luke Hendrickson]

Marty!

Thank you for sharing this here. I’ve often admired Jan’s rig with the Nivex and wanted a production version for myself. It’s beautiful and to the point and what’s more – I want one! Should I tire of my three pulley Suntour (and want to pony up for a frame modification + repaint), I’d take this in a heartbeat. I hope that someone here gets one. 

[James M]

Pretty cool - but another $250 for the shift lever.  Still great to see components like this being made!

[Scott Luly]

That's a really cool bit, yet it's a lot to spend just to be different and stylish.

What's the functional benefit to investing in one?

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

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[DavidP]

The "custom Rivendell" part is key as it requires the chainstay braze-on for the RD mount rather than the standard dropout hanger mount.

-Dave

On Monday, December 12, 2022 at 10:57:26 AM UTC-5 Marty Gierke, Stewartstown PA wrote:

[lconley]

Except that the shift levers are sold out!

Laing

[Garth]

I'm all peanut gallery on this one. I'm reminded of a Canadian rock band I listened to as a teen named Max Webster. They had an album called "High Class in Borrowed Shoes". I never really related much to that title until right now...... and how underneath the inflated image of "high class" resides the person, place or thing as it truly is. In this case, it's "just" a derailleur regardless of the sales pitch and inflated sense of worthiness. Not to diminish the "just", I mean that as the authenticity of Existence. A derailleur is a marvelous and ingenious thing and no amount of over or under inflating can change that.

[Bill Schairer]

I'm intrigued but consider all the bits needed to make it happen and one is probably looking at more like $1,500 and, besides that, most of those added bits aren't available!?  I'm still intrigued, though.

Bill S

San Diego

[Shoji Takahashi]

I'd love to try it-- unfortunately an unlikely proposition for me.

After seeing the RH price point, I'm scared to think what the Riv derailer will cost. 

shoji

arlington ma

[Eliot Balogh]

I think Grant said ~$170. Sensah offered to do them for $350 which he was adamantly against as he wanted them to be affordable and functional rather than something artistic that no one bought. 

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[J J]

I love the image of the peanut gallery here!

So besides the price of entry for the RD itself, there is the cost of the lever (any other hardware?), and designing a custom built bike around it or retrofitting a frame with an appropriate braze-on and cable guide, which would probably also mean repainting the retrofitted frame or at least part of it. It’s a big commitment. 

The mechanism itself looks super cool, but it is also a bonafide example of a proprietary component, which is what makes it hard for me to consider. I like being able to easily swap parts out, even (or especially) fancy parts. 

[Brian Turner]

The price point + the added cost of having to modify a frame with the proprietary braze-on it needs to mount it would make this impractical beyond the derailleur cost alone for most folks.

On Dec 13, 2022, at 9:32 AM, Eliot Balogh <eliot...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[greenteadrinkers]

The shift lever looks as though it would have to be mounted only to a downtube shift boss, guessing one might have to forgo bar-end shifting.

Scott

[Mackenzy Albright]

My assumption is this der setup would be a lifelong purchase? Seems like most bikes that had this originally are still functioning. I'd imagine it'd Pay for itself on a bike that was owned and ridden for manymany years. 

I think it's beautiful. I won't buy one any time soon. But if I ever win the lottery. First superfluous bike purchase. 

[Berkeleyan]

To borrow a trite phrase, The Nivex shows that RH Cycles have jumped the shark. The cost is well beyond any common rider's reach, requires retrofitment brazing, paint, and only works with a custom shifter that mounts to a downtube. Kudos to Grant and RBW for sticking it out to bring a new RD in under $200 that mounts to standard dropouts.

- Andrew, Berkeley

[Brian Forsee]

This thing looks cool but as a whole i think it's exceptionally silly. It may be better protected than a standard der but its still prone to being broken or bent. Then what? Will RH be making this thing 10 or 15 years down the line? Same goes for the shifter. I expect some people with a huge investment in this thing and their frame will find themselves SOL in the future. I also think derailleurs work plenty well and don't need that much improving. If you want the 'experience' RH is referring to, just friction shift.

The best thing about this is it makes the Riv derailleur project look very reasonable all of a sudden.

[Bill Lindsay]

Laing pointed out that the shift levers are sold out.

So is the derailer itself!  At least this morning (December 13, 2022) it is.  

This is never going to be a high volume part.  Plan your next $15000 custom bike around it, or gaze from a distance...

BL in EC

[Eric Norris]

Readers of this list who also enjoy film cameras will see some parallels between this derailleur and the newly released Leica M6 (or older cameras like the Leica M3, which dates back to 1954 and is still widely sought after and used). Yes, there are innumerable modern cameras that have automated features that were only dreamt of back in the day, but camera lovers (I am one) often appreciate the look and feel of a classic, fully mechanical piece of equipment. Even old lenses are nowadays revered for the classic way they render images, even if on paper they’re less sharp and exact than modern ones.

The new Nivex is like that. It’s not indexed, or carbon fiber, or electronic, and it won’t even fit on 99.9% of the bikes out there. But it harkens back to the golden age of handbuilt bicycles and allows one to re-live that era, if only in a small way. Operating the push/pull lever on the Nivex is like pressing the shutter on a classic mechanical camera and hearing the intricate machinery inside turn that action into a very satisfying shutter movement. If you don’t understand why that’s important, you shouldn’t buy an old camera … or a Nivex.

Just like Leica will likely sell every single new M6 that they can make (even at $6,000 each), I’m sure (as has been reported here on this list already) that Rene Herse will sell every one of the new Nivexes.

If I was getting a new custom bike made, I would consider one. 

--Eric Norris
campyo...@me.com
Insta: @CampyOnlyGuy
YouTube: YouTube.com/CampyOnlyGuy 

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[Bill Lindsay]

bmfo  used two question marks in a post, but I'm not sure whether the questions were sincere or rhetorical.  They were:

"its still prone to being broken or bent. Then what? "  Then the owner of that $15000 custom built bike will buy replacement parts from Rene Herse

"Will RH be making this thing 10 or 15 years down the line? "  That's exactly what Rene Herse has promised.  Just like they promised to stock their proprietary chainrings for their premier crankset.  Compare that to EVERY OTHER rear derailleur in existence today.  None of them are completely rebuildable, and none of them come with a manufacturer commitment to offer all replacement parts in perpetuity.  I don't blame anybody who thinks Rene Herse will be out of business in 10-15 years.  Choosing current disposable rear derailleurs with standard fitment is an excellent hedge against future replacement needs.  

The advice I have to every cyclist in 2022:  If you think you may need a particular replacement part down the road, buy it today, because it might not be around when you need it.  If I was planning a $15000 custom bike around this RD, I would probably buy a second copy of it.  If I was willing to buy a $15000 bicycle, I could afford a spare rear der.  

In my book Jan and Grant are exactly the same.  Both took enormous time, effort and expense to execute a project they believe in.  Neither will make money for their companies.  Neither was a publicity stunt.  They just believed in something and decided to do it.  Both think all current derailers are great.  Both wanted to offer an alternative choice.  Both would not have bothered if such a thing was available today.   If you want one, buy one.  If you don't want one, no problem.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Jay Lonner]

I’m sympathetic to the cyclotouriste-inspired aesthetic, but agree that it seems like a very niche setup that is prone to instant obsolescence if RH stops making spare parts. If I were in the market for a new bike requiring custom fittings for a novel shifting system I’d just go for a Rohloff, recognizing that given Grant’s stance on IGHs it wouldn’t be a Rivendell.

Jay Lonner

Bellingham, WA

Sent from my Atari 400

On Dec 13, 2022, at 10:49 AM, Brian Forsee <bmfo...@gmail.com> wrote:

This thing looks cool but as a whole i think it's exceptionally silly. It may be better protected than a standard der but its still prone to being broken or bent. Then what? Will RH be making this thing 10 or 15 years down the line? Same goes for the shifter. I expect some people with a huge investment in this thing and their frame will find themselves SOL in the future. I also think derailleurs work plenty well and don't need that much improving. If you want the 'experience' RH is referring to, just friction shift.

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[lconley]

My feelings, exactly. I put Rene Herse braze-on centerpull brakes, a Rene Herse crank and Curtis Odom hubs on my Rivendell Custom. I would have put a Nivex on it also, had it been available. I would still be way under the price of top of the line modern electronic CF road bike. Rene Herse did a series of custom steel bikes (and carbon fiber) and they sold out like 2021 Rivendells. Aren't new Dura-Ace rear derailleurs $650+? And they aren't even desmodromic.

I can afford the finest bike (my standards) in the world, but I drive a manual transmission Honda Fit EX HFP.

Laing

[lconley]

From the Retrogrouch - notice the chainstay clamps:

Laing

[Eric Daume]

$200 derailleurs for the people!

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[Brian Forsee]

Bill - I guess the first question was rhetorical and the second sincere. My main point was I have doubts about the long term serviceability/replaceability of this derailleur. I agree with your point about most derailleurs not being completely rebuildable, but at least they all mount the same so they are *relatively* easily replaceable when/if they fail. Definitely agree with your point about preemptively buying replacement parts.

I guess this kinda falls in with a lot of newfangled mtb tech for me. Cool but not completely necessary. I should disclaim that I do enjoy mtbing and do it on a bike with disc brakes and a fork that goes squish squish.

I wonder how many of these they made in the first run? 50? 100? 20?

On Tuesday, December 13, 2022 at 1:47:04 PM UTC-6 Eric Daume wrote:

$200 derailleurs for the people!

On Tuesday, December 13, 2022, Berkeleyan <asht...@gmail.com> wrote:

To borrow a trite phrase, The Nivex shows that RH Cycles have jumped the shark. The cost is well beyond any common rider's reach, requires retrofitment brazing, paint, and only works with a custom shifter that mounts to a downtube. Kudos to Grant and RBW for sticking it out to bring a new RD in under $200 that mounts to standard dropouts.

- Andrew, Berkeley

On Monday, December 12, 2022 at 7:57:26 AM UTC-8 Marty Gierke, Stewartstown PA wrote:

The Nivex is on the market now, and I really like the look of it. Even at $729.00 it feels like money well spent if you want something a little different and appreciate all that goes into making something like this. KUDOs to Jan for sticking with it. 

Nivex Rear

For a custom Rivendell, it might make for a very sweet build. If my ship comes in I'd be tempted to spring for one, but I'll hold out until I see the new Riv rear derailer. 

Marty

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[ascpgh]

(Channeling my inner Paul B.) I wonder if the Suntour S-1 had the same braze on spec?

RH isn't the first to replay Simplex (S-1=Simplex one?).

Andy Cheatham

Pittsburgh

[Joe Bernard]

THERE ya go. Find yourself an old Schwinn CrissCross (maybe it was CrossCut) with the S-1 braze-on and put a Nivex on it! 

[John Dewey]

So…RBW. Does a $15,000 handbuilt artbike enjoy preferential treatment or does it acquire the usual beausage like any other? 

Like your lowly, say, old Rambouillet?

https://flic.kr/p/2kafNb7

Feeling silly now 😎

BEST / Jock Dewey

Do you let it get all dinged up like your other bikes or do you treat it with more respect…because it costs more?

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[John Dewey]

If you were lucky enough to find one of those NOS, it'd probably be close to the cost Jan's. 

If you need one, cheap at twice the price!

Jock

On Tuesday, December 13, 2022 at 5:16:59 PM UTC-8 ascpgh wrote:

[Jason Zakaras]

I’m sure this was just being cheeky, but to ride a bike, dings and all, is to respect it…
I love the look of the derailleur and wouldn’t mind adding it to a bike, I don’t think it’s that expensive to have such a unique and pleasing look added to the right bike. My .02. Which might not be as valuable as your .02… it’s all relative 

Xoxo

[Patrick Moore]

Funny. When I saw the header I immediately guessed the price and thought, "$700?" I thought I would overestimate but apparently not.

I'll be interested in hearing others' reports on it. I'd love to try it, but a purchase would be foolish given my riding and the fact that I found the Huret Alvit on the as-new Collegiate I owned 10 years ago to shift wholly unexceptionally.

Someone do a back-to-back RH/Rivendell derailleur shootout.

On Mon, Dec 12, 2022 at 8:57 AM Marty Gierke, Stewartstown PA <martin...@gmail.com> wrote:

The Nivex is on the market now, and I really like the look of it. Even at $729.00 it feels like money well spent if you want something a little different and appreciate all that goes into making something like this. KUDOs to Jan for sticking with it. 

Nivex Rear

For a custom Rivendell, it might make for a very sweet build. If my ship comes in I'd be tempted to spring for one, but I'll hold out until I see the new Riv rear derailer. 

Marty

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Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

[Patrick Moore]

As Grant said circa 1997: "We are product driven, not market driven."

I don't have a use for very wide sweepback bars or a Nivex rd, but I do admire them both for forcing the design and creation of things they love in a market where everything is flowing in the opposite direction, and it's not an apparent expensive "lifestyle" or "style alone" thing as Silca's and Chaterlea's new offerings seem to be. (But I am open to correction about Silca and Chaterlea.)

Patrick Moore, who hedged his close-ratio 3-speed Sturmey Archer bet with a second, backup AM hub.

On Tue, Dec 13, 2022 at 12:12 PM Bill Lindsay <tape...@gmail.com> wrote:

... In my book Jan and Grant are exactly the same.  Both took enormous time, effort and expense to execute a project they believe in.  Neither will make money for their companies.  Neither was a publicity stunt.  They just believed in something and decided to do it.  Both think all current derailers are great.  Both wanted to offer an alternative choice.  Both would not have bothered if such a thing was available today.   If you want one, buy one.  If you don't want one, no problem.  

[Bill Gibson]

I see derailleurs for sale for $20, and up. I bet they shift just fine with skillful installation and practice. Dura-Ace costs a little more than the Nivex Nuevo, but not much, which I guess is a statement about the place in the universe the Nivex claims. Better and lighter and cheaper than Dura-Ace! The price is not the point. The point is, well like, Louis Armstrong said, "If you have to ask what jazz is, you'll never know." It is about pure mechanical joy. I would love to ride with it. I am surprised that indexing came before friction, but will be interested in future batches. I'd like to see a bolt-on version, even though I know the braze-on version is better, hands down. I might put a bolt-on version on my Quickbeam. I come from the era when the "best" frames had no braze-ons, only clamp-ons. Something about heat damaging the frames of that time. Same for the Herse brakes, a bolt-on adapter for those, and a path to integrated heaven for the masses, imagined or real. Heck, I want a chain rest, too.

Bill Gibson
Tempe, Arizona, USA

My Photographs : https://billbgibson.myportfolio.com/ and on Behance: https://www.behance.net/BillGibson

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[lconley]

Rene Herse sells bolt on centerpulls.

I had the chain rest installed on my Rivendell Custom. Rivendell used to sell a clamp-on version.

 

Laing