52cm Wilbury (fancy!) frameset, never built, CL outing

[Mark Roland]

Not mine, no relation, not close enough/no time to facilitate a sale. I'm a little ambivalent about ebay "outings" but this is a CL tucked away in NW CT, so, here ya go. (Apologies if the owner is on the list and planning to post.) Listing is new, but I swear I've seen it before, so owner may have tried and failed previously. And of course, caveat emptor since I cannot vouch for the seller, who is unknown to me.

https://hartford.craigslist.org/bik/d/suffield-rivendell-mixte-wilbury-frame/7053943420.html

[Kurt Henry]

Mark, it looks like the same seller also has a built 55cm Yves Gomez.  Looking back in the RBW archives, I think the individual was once a member of the list (may still be?), as there was an individual in CT selling the same two bike/frames.

That said, the Gomez falls in line with my recent mixte curiosity.  Does anyone know how the sizing on the early mixtes works?  I've looked at the current Cheviot sizing, which suggests at 5'9-10" I'd be on a 60cm, but the well discussed changes to Riv's geometry makes the current sizing suggestions suspect. The other plus of the older model is the more moderate chainstay length.  Without rehashing BBDD's thread on chainstay length, I haven't tried the longer wheelbase geometry but the earlier short chainstays look much better to my eye.

Kurt Henry

Lancaster, PA

[MCT]

That Wilbury has been for sale for probably over a year or two.

[Mark Roland]

I wonder why. Certainly not a screaming deal, but it seems like a not unreasonable price for an unbuilt frameset. Would be custom today, so what do those go for? 3K +?

[Benz, Sunnyvale, CA]

On Saturday, January 11, 2020 at 7:41:49 AM UTC-8, Kurt Henry wrote:

That said, the Gomez falls in line with my recent mixte curiosity.  Does anyone know how the sizing on the early mixtes works?  I've looked at the current Cheviot sizing, which suggests at 5'9-10" I'd be on a 60cm, but the well discussed changes to Riv's geometry makes the current sizing suggestions suspect.

From the scans of Rivendell Reader #34, it seems the Glorious/Wilbury sizing was as follows:

• 50cm: For riders up to about 5'5.5".
• 56cm: Up to about 5'10.5".
• 60cm: From 5'10" to 6'3" or so.

Note the use of "about", and "or so", suggesting the height ranges are guides and not definitive.

I have a 56cm Wilbury, and with my 81.0cm PBH, I have very little (~2") seatpost showing below a (tall) Brooks B17 saddle. Nevertheless, with Albatross bars connected by a normal length 110mm stem, it fits well. I've consistently read that mixte sizing can be significantly more flexible, in the sense that the range of accommodation is wide, and one can size up quite a bit. Still, if I read from the Cheviot's sizing guide, I should be on a 55cm by PBH, but 60cm by overall height! :)

[Ann L]

I am seriously tempted but am concerned it might be a bit large for me (my PBH is 75).  Does anyone know what the maximum tire clearance is?

[Kurt Henry]

Ann, I'm not sure about maximum tire clearance, but I emailed the seller.  He confirmed that his PBH is 79cm, so saddle should be around 69cm.  From the pictures in the ad, it looks like you would have 4cm of room to drop the saddle a little, especially if you went away from a sprung saddle (less space needed from the seatpost clamp to the top of the saddle).  He noted that he is 5' 4", which was at the bottom end of the sizing range, but I do wonder if you could make it work if you lean toward longer legs and shorter torso.  I'm not an expert on fit, though!!  I wouldn't be in the market until mid-next month, and am trying to resist the urge.  If you like it, don't worry about me, as you'd be saving me the decision to spend a chunk of cash!

Benz, I read something similar about sizing, I think on-list.  My saddle height is 75cm, so would raise the saddle ~2.5 inches from its current position.  It doesn't look from the photo as though that would be out of sorts.  I suspect that stem could go up a bit more if needed.  And at just a hair under 5' 10", I'd still make the sizing range you provided.  I was kinda hoping the seller would tell me it wouldn't work.  Maybe not!!

Kurt Henry
Lancaster, PA

[Benz, Sunnyvale, CA]

On Saturday, January 11, 2020 at 11:51:08 AM UTC-8, Ann L wrote:

I am seriously tempted but am concerned it might be a bit large for me (my PBH is 75).  Does anyone know what the maximum tire clearance is?

Ann, I have a 81cm PBH and I ride a 56cm Wilbury with about 2" of seatpost showing. Since your saddle height is going to be about 6cm lower than mine, but with 4cm of that taken up by the shorter seat tube of a 52cm frame, I'll say you should fit, even if it's at the lower end of fitting. What I'm more concerned about, after helping a couple of my female friends tweak their fit, is whether you'll find the reach OK; women tend to require shorter reaches. However, if you're expecting to use an Albatross bar or similar, then the reach issue may be moot.

WRT to clearance, I don't have numbers for the 52cm size, but my Wilbury fits Hetre 650Bx42 tires under fenders, albeit somewhat snugly.

Kurt, this is how my 56cm Wilbury is set up, for my 70.5cm saddle height. I'm actually 5'10" (yeah, short legs), so with the Albatross bars, it's an upright position for me. A saddle height of 75cm would be substantially higher than mine, and would be doubly so for a 52cm frame. I don't know…I suspect you won't fit very well on that 52cm frame. Remember, with mixtes, the guideline is one can usually ride a larger bike; what you're trying to do is to ride a smaller bike.

[Ann L]

Kurt:

Unfortunately, I have a longer torso and shorter legs.  I currently have a 46 cm Appaloosa and 47 cm Soma San Marcos that fit me although they were custom made for me.  I definitely would not be able to go up a size.  I love both bikes and ride them all the time.  I decided my next bike is going to be a mixte and have been waiting for the next batch of Cheviots to come in.  The only color left in my size for the ones in stock is the same as my San Marcos and I would prefer something different.

[Ann L]

Bentz:

That is a gorgeous bike.  I normally don't care for orange but it is absolutely stunning on your Wilbur.  I was thinking of going with Billie bars.  I currently have Albatross and Bosco bars on my other bikes and am looking for a different feel for my next ride. 

[Kurt Henry]

Hi Benz,

Thank you for the pic, and VERY cool bike!  I was thinking the 52cm Glorius frameset was a non-starter from the get-go. The one I was considering was the same seller's 55cm (per the ad, maybe 56cm??) Yves Gomez.  I can't find documentation online, but I THINK that's very similar to the Wilbury from a geometry standpoint.  I've pasted in a picture below.  The saddle height as shown is ~69cm.  You may well be right, and 75cm would be just too high on that frame.  If so, it certainly saves me a long drive and some coin.

Kurt Henry

Lancaster, PA

[masmojo]

Before the Holidaze I was in contact with him about the possibility of buying it (even though it's at the low end of my size range), but an inglorious tornado knocked down some large branches, that required a ton of tree work that I couldn't tackle myself; that coupled with the fact that I just built 2 top shelf Crusts in the last 6-8 months AND the holidaze means a Glorius is bit further off than I had hoped.
Also, the seller has been somewhat stuck on selling it to someone local.
Incidentally, he does still frequent here and I believe he is selling these to get a Gus Boots??

[Michael Morrissey]

Hi! 

It looks like this bike is back on the market:

https://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/bik/d/new-york-52cm-wilbury-rivendell-bicycle/7293327488.html

Anyone have geometry details on this? I think it is too big for my (small sized) gf.

M

[Joe Bernard]

It amazes me that frame has never sold. I don't believe it's ever even had parts on it. 

How tall is your gf? My very vague memory of these bikes is they were based on the Toyo-then-Waterford Homer, which will be a shorter front-center more conducive to dropbars than the current Cheviot/Platypus. I'm 5'-6" and I suspect this frame would be too small for me with my preferred Boscos. 

[Joe Bernard]

Sorry, brainfade. The 650B bikes were called Saluki then, not Homer. 

[Shoji Takahashi]

Hi Michael,

You can read more about Wilbury and Glorious on Riv Reader 34:

http://notfine.com/rivreader/RR34.pdf

Despite the gorgeous lugs on Wilbury/Glorious, I'd go for the Platypus, particularly at that asking price. 

Good luck!

shoji

Arlington MA

[Michael Morrissey]

That Riv Reader is great! I need to sit down and re-read them all. That one shows 3 sizes of Wilbury, none of which are 52".

My girlfriend is 5 feet tall. She has a Trek 7.2 FX WSD right now, but I wish I could get her a Rivendell. Her bike has 700 wheels but a very steep toptube, and I think for such a small rider she should have smaller wheels. I think she would really enjoy a Clem Smith Low 26". 

This is not her picture, but the same bike:

https://media.karousell.com/media/photos/products/2015/10/10/trek_wsd_mountain_bike_1444454485_cdffac6c.jpg

I have been "Rivving-out" her bike gradually. It has Rivendell Wavie handlebars, a Nitto big front rack from Rivendell, and VP Vice pedals. Next up, I'm going to change the cranks to a "One-by" drivetrain. 

m

 

[Joe Bernard]

Does she like her Trek? The bike you pictured isn't the vibe of this list but it's a good bike. 

[Tom Wyland]

My wife has the same Trek FX. It has been a good bike for her. The frame must be of European origin (touring frame?) because hers has bosses for a rear wheel lock (O lock).   It had 35mm tires on it stock and would probably fit bigger tires if you'd want to.

[S. Greco]

It's a beautiful bike. I can't believe the price on this has actually increased.

[mgst...@gmail.com]

We have one of these (we = it's. my wife's bike, a Glorius, same era, with a custom paint color); and even though it doesn't fit me, riding it around to 'test' it from time to time.- it is one of the BEST handling, lithe and limber bikes i've been on.  If i could get one in my size, i would. 

Ron B, Berkshires MA

[Joel S]

That bike sold awhile ago.  Some in NY bought it and has raised the price significantly from what he paid.  

[J J]

Hi everyone. I'm new to this group. I thought it would be fun to share the latest about this thread's mysterious subject.

We bought the frameset in NYC a few months ago from a super nice fellow and brought it to DC. 

It was surreal to behold the light blue frame, as if it had just left the Toyo workshop in 2008. The paint seems to be custom, but who knows? 

I contacted Rivendell for size and component advice. Will was so generous with his time.

I asked Will to recommend a shop in the greater DC area to build it. An MD-based customer told him to steer us toward Mount Airy Bicycle Company, owned by Larry, a "legend" in the community.

After talking to Larry, it was a no-brainer. Mount Airy's vast collection of bikes and parts was mind-blowing. They did a superlative job on the build. 

If you ride around DC or NYC, you might run into us — a big green Hunqapillar and this fabulous Wilbury, whose saga continues. 

Not sure how to share pics here.  When I try I get a note saying my message is too long.

J

  

[David Person]

Hi J, regarding attaching pictures, the key is to make the file size isn't too large.  Before attaching photos to my posts, I always resize them to something below 1mb.

Would love to see pictures of the bike when you are able to put them up.

David

[mgst...@gmail.com]

Here is my wife's Glorius, same era, custom color - 

It rides incredibly well - plush, but FAST

She's had it since mid 2007

[mgst...@gmail.com]

Oh! i see i posted the same thing a year ago...it's STILL a great bike!  Hope you enjoy your new one.

[JRStern11]

I wonder if this was the one sold new from a CT seller and then the new buyer tried to flip it.  In any case enjoy your new bike.  

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[J J]

Thanks for the tip, David. Let's see if it works here. Thanks for posting the pic of your wife's beautiful bike again, mgstf5144. You should know that your pic was part of the inspiration for buying the Wilbury.

Joel, it's definitely that same bike, though it's not clear whether it was flipped. The fellow did drive the bike in from CT to East Village. He was really as nice as can be, and the negotiation was amicable and fair. He showed me pics of his other Rivendells that he built up himself, including a really special and beautiful Atlantis. 

I'd had my eyes on the Wilbury for more than a year, I think. It was relisted every couple of months. The reticence about buying it was the size. My partner is 5'1" and we were concerned about it being slightly too large for her. We finally bought it on faith. I figured that if it did not work for her, it would work for someone else. Once we had the frame in hand, I contacted the lovely folks at Rivendell to ask for advice on sizing and the build, and to buy components. We were eager to build it and ride. I can't thank Will enough for his help with my many questions. He was incredibly patient and generous with his time, and genuinely excited about this unusual NOS frame. Will walked us through measuring things carefully: PBH of course, seat tube length, saddle height of her previous bike, etc. He asked for photos of her on the previous bike and about her riding style. He consulted Grant about it, too. The advice was right on. In the end, we were confident the size would be just right. And it was. We feel fortunate to have gotten it and built it up.

I mentioned that it appears to have been a custom paint job (Joe Bell?) because I have never seen a Wilbury or Glorius frame in quite this light blue color. Maybe others have, though. The soft color — and those lugs! — are part of the bike's charm.  I wonder if Rivendell still has a stash of the crazy lugs. I believe Grant had said that once they ran out of the lugs, that would be it and there would be no more custom Wilbury/Glorius builds.

The next big question was who going to put the bike together. There are tons of bike shops in DC proper, but we had to find a shop that we were totally confident in, and that was experienced with and genuinely "got" Rivendell mechanically, aesthetically, and philosophically (to the extent that there even is a cohesive Rivendell philosophy....), and that we connected with. I was familiar with Mount Airy because I have perused its website many times, dreaming of adding any number of bikes in their vast inventory to my stable. But I had never been to the shop because it's a one-hour drive from DC and traffic is usually gnarly getting out of the city. Larry said that he had worked on Wilbury frames and many other Rivendells, and that we had found a "true gem." Larry's shop is a veritable bicycle paradise as far as I'm concerned. He, John, and Paul were so kind and helpful. I'll certainly be frequenting the shop. I could not ask for better.

The photos will show that the build is definitely Rivendellesque. We still need to add a few things — bar tape, a bell, a mirror, maybe different grips. But as it is, it's fantastic.

.

[JRStern11]

JJ, lovely build.  I was interested in that frame but the price had me shy away.  The original owner lives about 20 minutes from me.  My recollection is that he sold it to a student at Yale.  I should have negotiated, beautiful bike.  If you decide to part with it please let me know.  

I hope your significant other gets great use from it.  

Joel

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[J J]

Thanks for your kind words, Joel. Yes! The seller mentioned he is a student at Yale. You've clearly looked into this. Do you know the story of the original owner? It's really just a curiosity, thinking about how many hands and places it passed through from the time it was built to the time it was first ridden. The seller told me he got it a while back from a man who had several frames that he had not built up.... or something like that.

[JRStern11]

J J, the original owner had this frame that he never built up, a built up Yves Gomez and some other bikes.  He lives in a well to do town.  He was asking, if memory serves $2000 or so for the frame but sold it for $1600 (I would have bought it for that).  The Yale guy tried to sell it for over $2k originally, no need for me to know what you paid, that is personal.  I was invited to see the bike but was concerned it would be too small and COVID was raging at that time.  As it turned out I think the size would have been fine.  His Yves Gomez was a 55cm and when I called Rivendell Will thought it would too big.   In the old days I rode a 56cm custom, a 55cm Bleriot among others. Today with the new sizing I rode a 51cm Sam Hillborne and my new to me Saluki. 

The Bleriot was a tad large, not bad but a little and I rode it for quite a while.  I sold it about 2 months ago on the forum as I found a 54cm Saluki.  I had a 56cm Saluki when they came out but the TT was  just to long for me even with a short stem.  I will attach a photo of my old and new for you.  

So that is what I know.  I can contact Charlie (the original owner) if you want to ask him questions to see if it is ok with him.

Joel 

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[J J]

Hi Joel,

Thanks for your note and for the pics. I’d love it if you contacted Charlie on my behalf. It would be interesting to get more of the bike’s story. I believe the Yale student had a range of prices listed at various times, all the up to $2,500. We came to a fair agreement and everyone walked away pleased :) 

Your Saluki is fantastic. Something about Salukis does it for me — the name of the basal breed and the head badge, the colors (I’ve seen them in “Hunqapillar green", silver, orange, yellow, and red), the cantis, the proportions. I would love to find one in a 59 or 60. If you ever hear of one for sale, please let me know!  

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[Joel S]

J J, will send you PM.  

[JRStern11]

The Saluki was the first 650b Rivendell production bike.  I liked the light green I had originally better, but this pewter, more lt. taupe) is fine.  I have all the parts except the brakes on it that I had on my first Saluki, they went on the Bleriot and are now on a Saluki again.  As soon as we warm up enough I will have it on the road.  

Joel

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