R14 or M1 as a saddlebag support?

[Arthur Walther]

Hey folks, 
Arthur here,
I'm a mechanic and bike messenger and I currently live and work in Berlin, Germany.
I'm getting a custom frame built and I'm planning to use Riv racks to support a rando bag in the front and Carradice Camper saddle bag in the rear.
I'm pretty settled on Mark's rack for the front of the bike, but I'm pondering the differences between Mark's Rack and R14 used as a saddle bag support.

The nearest Rivendell dealer is in the UK, and there is not a whole lot of RBW bikes and products over here in Europe, so I don't have access to seeing these racks in person, before acquiring them.
I like the minimalist and clean look and versatility of M1 aka Mark's rack, and, according to the BlueLug's blog, the R14 can be considered a larger version of this same rack.
I'm planning to use the rack almost exclusively as a bag support and like my saddlebags tucked in directly under the seat, close to the seatpost. I'd like to take advantage of the mid-fork and seat stay eyelets as well, even though it probably means sacrificing some rigidity.
Are there any arguments in favor of using either of these racks over the other?

I'd be especially happy to hear recommendations from folks who have experience with both these racks, but everyone is welcome to share their experience using either of them as a rear rack.

Appreciate your feedback!
A.

[Brian Turner]

The R14 is a great rack, but it’s pretty long. That could be a good thing if you’re primarily using it as a bag support because you will still have room to strap other small things to it. I have both versions of the R14; both with and without the tombstone, but for a bad support, I’d definitely go with the tombstone version.

I really like the idea of the Mark’s rack on the rear. If you’ve got the braze-ons to mount it high and tight.

For my Crust Bombora, I’m hoping to one day find one of the black Mark’s racks to use as a rear saddlebag support because I like how compact it is. It should compliment my black F32 rack that I keep on the front as a handlebar bag support.

On Sep 14, 2022, at 4:34 PM, Arthur Walther <r2r.g...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hey folks, 

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[Nick Payne]

I use the R14 on a couple of bikes as a saddlebag support, and it does the job well. Here it is under a fully loaded Carradice camper longflap:

I also use the Nitto R50 to fasten the saddlebag to the saddle:

I've never used the other rack you mention.

Nick

[velomann]

If I might present another option - 

I run a M-18 on the rear of my Sam as a bag support; currently a Swift/Camp and Go Slow Zeitgeist bag. Depending on what brakes you're using this can be a good option. I'm running Paul Motolites and no special mods were necessary to attach the diving board to the unused seatstay bridge (see photos)

I also run a Mark's Rack on the front of this bike for a basket rack. I had to get a little more creative with the stay bending to clear the brakes but it's been trouble free since I first built it up.

Mike M

[George Schick]

+1 on the Mark's rack on the rear.  I also made and attached a platform made from 1/4" plywood to spread the load so the sides of the bag don't sag so much.

[Takashi]

The tombstone of M1 rack is relatively high, so depending on your frame size you may or may not be able to place the rack close to the seatpost.

Like you, I also like to put my saddlebag close to the seatpost, so I cut off the tombstone with a hacksaw.

Hope it helps.

Takashi

[iamkeith]

Here are a couple of pictures of my setups, similar to what you're asking, in case they help:

The orange bike has a mark's rack in front and an RBW51 rack in back.  ( https://www.rivbike.com/products/lkajagliu6546afe )

This is actually the rack that's like a big Mark's rack, because it has the  hardware attached on the sides so it can swivel and provide more versatility in terms of attachment.  In my case, I used it to support a bigger trunk sack that is NOT attached to the saddle.  I have a quick release on the seatpost binder, and this makes it easier to raise and lower on steep trails.

The green bike has the R-14 in back, used as a saddle bag support.  I've had this rack forever, mounted to various bikes, and this is the first installation where I actually feel like it works.  Because the hardware can't swivel vertically, you usually have to bend the front struts to get it to fit.  If they're not exceptionally short, they end up becoming weaker once you do this.  It took a lot of serendipity between seatpost extension   upper braze-on location, and saddle bag height for this one to work out so well.  I do prefer the taller tombstone as compared to the RBW-51, but otherwise would measure very carefully before getting this one over the other.

[Garth]

I have both the M1 and what was called the 2 Strut front/rear full length rack. The same size platform as the R14 but can be used front or rear. The mounting points for the struts is different than the R14 allowing the dual mount.

Anyways, I've used them both front and rear. For a rear bag support alone the M1 is perfect... well no ... that would depend on the size of your bag !  Gotta measure it.  I do like the M1 as I don't have to run the struts down to the dropouts, and I used it with a mini Lone Peak rack top bag. 

I tried both in the front and didn't like the extra weight there. 

[Christopher Rust]

Haven’t used either of these racks on the rear personally but one thing to consider is that aside from a larger platform the R14 also has a different shape tombstone.

If you already have the rear bag in mind I’d do some measurements. I personally don’t like the look of same rack front and rear and if the bag is particularly large then would lean that way even more.

Chris

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[Arthur Walther]

Thanks for all the amazing replies and pictures, folks!

It's been really helpful to see the pics of different configurations here.
Keith makes a good point about the front struts of the R14 not designed to swivel vertically. I haven't noticed it earlier, and it's a shame that all the RBW51 ones are now sold out. It seems to be a superior option in terms of adjustability, albeit with a smaller tombstone.
Also agree with Chris - different racks front and rear seem a bit more eye-catching, to me at least, and my intended bag is on a larger side anyway (same setup as in Nick's message at the top of the page)
Keeping all that in mind, I'd probably try to get my hands on Mark's rack for the front and R14 for the rear of the bike, and see if the frame builder has any suggestions in terms of the optimal braze-on position.
In any case, I'd always be able to mount Mark's rack for the saddle bag support, if I don't manage to set up the R14 properly.

This feels much more like an informed decision, thank you all for the kind contributions!
Arthur