Who needs a custom?

[Joe Bernard]

I've banged this drum elsewhere and I figure since I'm about to accept delivery on one myself, I should ask and answer the question myself and see what others have to say.

I had a few things involved: 1. The basal arthritis (so far predominantly in my right hand) has become enough of an issue that I can only ride bolt upright. I even tried recumbents again but I just can't stick with them. 2. I saw a custom on the Rivbike site that wasn't quite a diamond frame but not quite a mixte, the toptube was somewhere in-between. I liked that look for a low-stepover frame. 3. I'm not getting any younger (57) and my hand is telling me my "ride a bike every day" years are numbered, so it was time to jump if I was ever going to get that Rivendell Custom I've always dreamed of. I asked Grant to design one that would get them Boscos way up there.

I'd love to hear other's thoughts, plus this thread will serve as a spot for pics of my new frame when it arrives. Who needs a custom?

Joe "I do I do!" Bernard
Marin County CA.

[Patrick Moore]

I just ordered a custom because I want so many weird features that can't possibly be found on a stock model:

Light "racing" type frame of light steel;

26" wheels;

~118 mm OL spacing (fixed wheel will be main wheel, bu I want a quick on/quick off 114 mm OL AM hub wheel and related bits)

Internal light wire routing

Split cable housing stops on top tube and top of seat tube

Custom racks 

Fenders integrated into design

Accommodation for 26" X 45 mm tires with fenders

But! Bike mimics my Rivs with 26 X 28s

Adding a hinged clamp to a pre-plastic St Archer trigger shifter

Extra-long "lazy L" chain catcher high on seatstay

Etc.

If I could put a disc rotor on a AM hub, I'd have had it built for discs. (Partly serious here, but not entirely.)

Chauncey picks up the green Riv tomorrow. I hope to have Chauncey use this as a model, then transfer all the parts over to the new frame.

Meanwhile, the 1999 Riv will stay as-is; it's my favorite bike of all time, and no one is doing anything to it (well, Chauncey added longer rear dropouts and a second pair of bottle cage bosses in 2018).

We'll see. 

Green Riv f+f+custom racks -- XO-1 absolutely apotheosized -- may end up FS here.

Do I need another custom? Absolutely not, but it will be very nice to have one!

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Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

[Patrick Moore]

I mean: on the right side, for easy on/off shifting bits.

On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 1:25 PM Patrick Moore <bert...@gmail.com> wrote:

... Split cable housing stops on top tube and top of seat tube

[ted]

I doubt many folks really "need" a custom. But there are loads of reasons to want one, and if you can pay for it why not? There are lots of worse ways to spend ones money.

I'd think the main reason to get one is wanting geometry and/or a mix of features not available from a production model (as is your case). But hey even just wanting those custom lugs, that head badge, and "Rivendell" on the down tube could be reason enough.

I look foreword to seeing photos of your new custom soon.

Ted, my cycling left "need" behind long ago, Kelly

Alameda County CA.

[Joe Bernard]

Hehe, yeah, "need" is probably the wrong word in the thread title. It's more like this: If you use your bike every day and would like certain features and a certain look and you have the cash, pay up! A Riv Custom may be pricey, but it's a heckuva lot cheaper than a new car.

[ted]

True, dat

[James Valiensi]

What would you do if you could only have one bicycle?

I’d just kill myself...

> On Mar 30, 2020, at 1:26 PM, ted <ted....@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> True, dat

>
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[Joe Bernard]

To be honest, James, I'm getting closer to that minimalist ideal. I've bought and sold a ton of bikes (they all said WE KNOW, JOE!) and often had four or five around at one time. Even considering at least one was usually a folder packed down into nothing in a closet, that's still a lot of bikes for one fellow to own and store. I'm not quite down to one yet, but I could see the custom getting me there..especially if my hands start giving up on the other bikes. I'm not One Bike Joe yet, but I think that day looms.

[James Valiensi]

It is an old joke. I have too many bikes and don’t want to get rid of any of them.
I have my Rivendell Custom, which my wife got for me as a wedding gift.
I have my Colnago from 1986, which was repainted by JB in a color my wife picked.
There is my Joe A, which is too pleasant to dump. I have a Yeti SB66 which is too expensive to replace and I like it.
I have a Brompton - how could you dump such a cute bike?
There is a Pedersen that will never go away.
Then there are the frames and bikes from my frame building days. I got to keep them, no one else wants them.

Sigh…

> On Mar 30, 2020, at 2:40 PM, Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> To be honest, James, I'm getting closer to that minimalist ideal. I've bought and sold a ton of bikes (they all said WE KNOW, JOE!) and often had four or five around at one time. Even considering at least one was usually a folder packed down into nothing in a closet, that's still a lot of bikes for one fellow to own and store. I'm not quite down to one yet, but I could see the custom getting me there..especially if my hands start giving up on the other bikes. I'm not One Bike Joe yet, but I think that day looms.
>

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[Joe Bernard]

"It is an old joke."

Oh, sorry James, my 'literal brain' tends to pick up things at face value (and drives my friends crazy because I can't read between the lines).

What IS it with Bromptons?? I buy one, I don't end up using it much, I sell it, I decide I need another one. I have a new one now and I'm just going to keep it no matter what! Someday I'll be One Bike Joe, and also the Brommie 😋

[Brewster Fong]

Agree. I went out this morning and found I had a flat rear tire (slow leak!). So I put that bike away and took out my other bike. Assuming you have the room, it is nice to have more than one bike. Otherwise, if you really only want one bike, make sure you have extra wheels! Good Luck!

On Monday, March 30, 2020 at 2:34:11 PM UTC-7, James Valiensi wrote:

What would you do if you could only have one bicycle?

I’d just kill myself...

> On Mar 30, 2020, at 1:26 PM, ted <ted....@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> True, dat
>
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[Robert Tilley]

I ordered my custom a long time ago. I wanted an All Rounder bicycle in 700c with cantis. At the time Riv didn't offer anything off the shelf. A few years after I got my custom they started offering the Atlantis which would have given me 95% of what I wanted in my custom.

Today I'd likely go with one of the standard Riv offerings since I'm fairly average in size and tend to fit off the shelf bikes fine. I would really miss the fancy lugs and the Joe Bell paint though. It's been 20 years since I got mine delivered and I still love looking at that paint.

Robert Tilley
San Diego, CA

Sent from my BlackBerry - the most secure mobile device

  Original Message  

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[ascpgh]

When your body simply doesn’t play nice with “stock” geometry. For my either too short torso or too long legs, if I choose the right top tube length i end up with a foot of seat post and low bars without carnival stems. Pick the right seat tube and I could achieve a racing position with even upright bars.

My Rambouillet was fortunately “under square”, TT<ST. It’s been my benchmark for almost 20 years now.

My custom is a Coast 650B.

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

[phil k]

I went the custom route - though not a Rivendell. I never found Rivendells to fit quite how I wanted with drop bars and a previous custom didn't quite fit me as well. I was very close to pursuing a Riv custom, but was on the fence about another custom.

Then my wife told me if I wanted to get a custom that I look into Grand Bois since we were gonna go to Japan for our honeymoon. She knew I followed them, and she liked the idea of a having a bike as a souvenir from our honeymoon, and she wanted me to go in-person for fitting and also wanted to visit Kyoto.

I walked into the shop, and Ikuo measured me up and fit me on the bike. I had a very particular idea of what I wanted - but it was clear Ikuo was was in charge. It was clear he had been doing this for a long time.

Few months later, my bike came in fully assembled. I was wary because I normally have the tops of my drop bars above my saddle. However, this bike didn't even come with a stem high enough to get the tops above the saddle. 

I kept everything how it was and the bike is amazing.

I feel like with all the money I lost buying and selling all my bikes, I should've gotten my custom sooner and saved money.

[Roberta]

Hi, Phil.

(I'm sure Phil remembers--I bought his AHH this past summer and am loving it.)  I'm so glad you are thrilled with your custom.  And, your wife if amazing to want you to have the bike of your dreams.

Roberta

[Joe Bernard]

Phil definitely married up 👍😁

[Mat Grewe]

I've always been a one bike guy and my bike, a Bianchi Super Grizzly from the early 80's, is needing to get retired.  I had the crack in the chainstay patched/fixed, the guy did such a great job, I put in an order for a custom to replace the frame.  It is essentially a fillet brazed 650b Atlantis with thru-axle disc brakes, longer top tube, slacker seat tube angle, dynamo routing, threadless headset, and seat stays that join behind the seat tube rather than the side (big thighs that rub on those protrusions!).

The nice thing about living in southwest Wisconsin, where the cost of living is pretty darn low, is a custom frame is the same or less than stock steel frames made in the US.  I tried to avoid going the custom route, but when I found nothing out there that would quite fit, plus the next best options were around the same price, oddly enough a custom didn't feel like such an indulgence.  At 29, I'm looking forward to riding this bike exclusively for many years to come.  Jobst Brandt got 20+ years out of his last Peter Johnson frame, so I'm hoping that I can get somewhere in that ballpark too.

Frame should be done and built up in a couple weeks, and if I remember, I can post a picture here once it is done.

Mat

Driftless Wisconsin

[Patrick Moore]

Chauncey picked up the 2003 Curt this morning to use as the model for the clone. At the last minute, we discussed tubing and I said, why not standard gauge 531? I didn't specify "C", if that is even available nowadays, but I told him, no touring-spec tubing, and Chauncey has a predilection for light frames. He texted me just now and said he'd ordered 531. So we'll see if it makes a difference over, say, oversized, thinwall, heat-treated tubing. I expect it won't, but at least I'll have a new tout-531 frame.

FWIW, all the light frames I've owned have been 531: 1989 Falcon; 1973 Motobecane G Record; and currently owned but not built 19-old Libertas that with steel Campy headset weighs 5 lb 9 oz in a 60 X 56 c-c size. So, 531 won't hurt, at any rate. Me, I don't think I've ever experienced "planing", but it won't hurt to try. And, the '03 never has felt as spritely as the '99.

Clone will ride like the '99 and '03 with the 559 X 28 wheels -- that is the foundational design principle -- but accept Naches Passes with fenders, God willing. Built for AM-hub wheel and QR trigger shifting system (OEM SA wingnuts), but the Surly fixed wheel will be the mainstay. Integrated racks and fenders, internal wiring (well, I told him to use exterior loops if absolutely necessary). No dt shifter bosses or stops, no derailleur hangar (hope eventually to build the Libertas up as a tubular derailleur retro road bike).

All, God willing ...

[Patrick Moore]

Mat: That sounds like a killer design; please keep us posted. If it was good enough for Jobst, it probably is good enough for the rest of us.

I suppose that the longer tt is for sweepback bars?

May I crassly inquire about the tab? I'll confess to mine (Chauncey Matthews): he wants $1,800, I told him, $2K if you swap over all the parts, I anticipate $2.5K ceiling for respacing Surly fixed rear hub and other unexpected incidentals; the result being old wine in new skins, to wit, old parts on new frame. (Old wine in new skins is fine; it's new wine that bursts old skins.)

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[Bill Lindsay]

I'm curious about your budget, mostly just as an extension to your narrative.  You've told several times that Chauncey Matthews was really slow to build your previous custom, and as a partial apology charged you only $1000 for it.  You refused to pay that little and forced him to accept $1200, and have repeatedly said it's worth 2x to 3x the price.  Given all the special one of a kind fabrication associated with this new frame, including a rear spacing that he's likely never done before, it seems to me that this new project, with all it's details could be substantially more involved than your previous custom Matthews.  If you believe your previous Matthews should have cost $2400 to $3600, and if your new Matthews is say half-again more involved with details, should your budget be $3600-$5000?  I was thinking about the numbers when you were asking about giving Bilenky the job.  As an urban-location builder, with an international reputation, I'd imagine Bilenky could easily cost double Chauncey Matthews, but then you'd be looking at a $7200 - $10000 frameset, which I just can't imagine your Scottish genes allowing you to spend.  

What's your budget?

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Bill Lindsay]

Ha!  I crassly inquired about your tab while you were crassly inquiring about another's.

BL

On Tuesday, March 31, 2020 at 4:05:39 PM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:

Mat: That sounds like a killer design; please keep us posted. If it was good enough for Jobst, it probably is good enough for the rest of us.

I suppose that the longer tt is for sweepback bars?

May I crassly inquire about the tab? I'll confess to mine (Chauncey Matthews): he wants $1,800, I told him, $2K if you swap over all the parts, I anticipate $2.5K ceiling for respacing Surly fixed rear hub and other unexpected incidentals; the result being old wine in new skins, to wit, old parts on new frame. (Old wine in new skins is fine; it's new wine that bursts old skins.)

On Tue, Mar 31, 2020 at 4:33 PM Mat Grewe <matg...@gmail.com> wrote:

I've always been a one bike guy and my bike, a Bianchi Super Grizzly from the early 80's, is needing to get retired.  I had the crack in the chainstay patched/fixed, the guy did such a great job, I put in an order for a custom to replace the frame.  It is essentially a fillet brazed 650b Atlantis with thru-axle disc brakes, longer top tube, slacker seat tube angle, dynamo routing, threadless headset, and seat stays that join behind the seat tube rather than the side (big thighs that rub on those protrusions!).

The nice thing about living in southwest Wisconsin, where the cost of living is pretty darn low, is a custom frame is the same or less than stock steel frames made in the US.  I tried to avoid going the custom route, but when I found nothing out there that would quite fit, plus the next best options were around the same price, oddly enough a custom didn't feel like such an indulgence.  At 29, I'm looking forward to riding this bike exclusively for many years to come.  Jobst Brandt got 20+ years out of his last Peter Johnson frame, so I'm hoping that I can get somewhere in that ballpark too.

Frame should be done and built up in a couple weeks, and if I remember, I can post a picture here once it is done.

Mat

Driftless Wisconsin

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[Patrick Moore]

The only Scottish genes I have are Scots Irish ones, greatly diluted with English on the same side, and with Malay/Chinese/Spanish ones on the other, so the tendencies are much attenuated.

Looking beyond Chauncey, my outside limit would be $5K for f/f/integrated racks that fit the existing parts plus the newly-ordered ($92 shipped) VO fenders. As it is, $3K should more than cover it all.

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[Mat Grewe]

Swept back bars, yes'ish and no...  I'm running Koga Denham, which are now on whatbars if you are curious.  The below pic is just from the internet, but pretty similar to what I'm doing.  I have a slightly long torso for my height of 6'1", but I like being stretched out with the bars level with the saddle.  Top tube is 635mm and I'll use a 100mm stem.  I'll PM you about the frame price.

[Philip Williamson]

I have a custom built for me, and a custom built for someone else. The other man’s custom is flat out the prettiest bike that can exist. The one built for me has features that are never ever co-morbid.

60mm tires and fenders
Rim brakes
31.6 dropper post
Drop bar specific
Rack built for a basket (no hose clamps)
Wiring runs inside the fork and rack

Custom doesn’t suck.
Fitz: https://www.instagram.com/p/B15KCAiF6Lj/
Frances: https://www.instagram.com/p/B-VKUACFKMS/

If I got a Rivendell custom it would be a sage green Legolas with Atlantis clearance and Golden Age chainstays.

Philip
Santa Rosa, CA

[Joe Bernard]

Speaking of such matters, here's mine at Joe Bell's awaiting paint.

On Monday, March 30, 2020 at 12:07:09 PM UTC-7, Joe Bernard wrote:

[Marty Gierke, Stewartstown PA]

Reminds me of a Jack Taylor Rough Stuff frame dragged into the 21st century kicking and screaming. I like it!

 

 

[Jason Fuller]

Thanks for posting the in-progress update Joe!  Looks very nice.  Can't wait to see it with paint.

If I were looking at a custom, I think it would be designed around 26 x 2.1 with 65mm fenders, and I'd alternate presently between Naches Pass and Gravel Kings.  I'd push for medium trail, and geometry and tubing somewhere between an AHH and a Sam.  Canti mounts.  Basically a 26" version of a Hillborne but with some additional tire clearance.  Not different enough from a Hillborne to be worth going custom :) 

[Chris L]

I'm fortunate to not need a custom since the stout tubes and the relatively long ETT of the Hunqapillar work well for me.  

This doesn't mean I don't WANT a custom and if I went that route, my preference would be for a first generation 56cm Atlantis designed for 650b x 60 tires and with 3cm more ETT and appropriate tubing for my weight.   

The 650B Hunqapillars come close but if I'm going custom, I want the less sloping top tube of the Atlantis, along with the shorter chainstays.      

It would be black and look something like this: