Clem L Paint Crisis

[Kiley Demond]

As some of you know, I have been looking for an early-model 59cm Clem L, preferably orange with blue the runner-up. I preferred frame-only because I knew that I would probably replace 80% of the components. For some reason, I took the wheels too. The frame was pristine but in shipping, the wheels were lashed to the frame with a tie-wrap, the hub protector popped off, and the hub proceeded to gouge the frame for several days in transit.

I bought this for myself for my 64th birthday and I am bitterly disappointed. I can return the frame and start my search over, or I can propose remediation. What will it take to fix this? I can live with a little bit of marking but it obviously needs to be repaired to seal the frame and reduce the cosmetic sting. I can contact Riv about touch-up paint, but the frame is from 2016, so....

Thank you in advance for your thoughts.

-Kiley

[Wesley]

Ah, that's a tough break Kiley. I'd seek out the best match you can find in Sally Hansen nail polish. Here's a quote from Grant's latest Blahg so you know it's got official approval:

"We (well, I) use nail polish. Joe Bell, world's best bike painter, once told me he thought nail polish was super as touch-up paint, even tougher than his own paint. It comes in tons of colors and costs $4 to $8 per vial, and if you don't like your work, you can always use, you guessed it, nail polish remover. Pedals are fun, but it's kind of a shame that you cover up your work when you're riding. Do stems, seat posts, handlebars, hubs, inner perimeters of rims, spokes, derailers (I did a sloppy job on my most-used derailer, and ... I like it)." 

[Eric Norris]

Kiley:

That’s too bad. On the plus side, it doesn’t look like the tubing was damaged, so this is entirely cosmetic.

A few thoughts:

Find a cool decal and put it over the scuff. Look on Etsy—there are plenty of interesting designs in all shapes and sizes. I did this once with a bike that had a few blemishes, which I covered with peace-symbol-shaped reflective stickers. I’ve also had good results covering damage like this with quality vinyl tape in a matching color (3M Trim and Seal is the best).

Take the bike to a sign painter or pinstriper. They have tons of colors on hand and are experts using a brush.

Good luck, and enjoy the bike. At least you have the trauma of the first scratch already over and done with!

--Eric Norris
campyo...@me.com
Insta: @CampyOnlyGuy
YouTube: YouTube.com/CampyOnlyGuy 

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[David Person]

I've played around with mixing a couple colors of modeler's enamel (Testors or Model Master), mixing on a paper plate, to try and match as closely the original paint.  Can likely do the same with nail polish, as Wesley mentions.  Now all my bikes are black so they are much easier to touch up with just gloss black Testors.

[Joe Bernard]

This is why I hate bike shipping! That's a nice frame with a now quite unfortunate blemish, I'd be inclined to return it because I'm WAY too touchy about scratches. But don't be like me, tell the seller you need $500 for new paint (that's about what it would cost) and either get it done or keep the cash and go the touch-up route. The latter is still going to be noticeable but Grant would tell us to get over ourselves and ride our Rivs! 

Joe "don't be like me" Bernard 

On Wednesday, June 22, 2022 at 7:19:01 AM UTC-7 Kiley Demond wrote:

[Jay Lonner]

That’s a tough break and I can understand your disappointment. Riv/Grant seems to be of two minds when it comes to stuff like this – on the one hand they extol the aesthetics of fancy lugs and exquisite Joe Bell paint jobs, and on the other they seem pretty laissez faire about “beausage” (ugh) once the bikes are in the wild. 

I don’t know how rare these frames are, and how attached you are to this particular vintage/color, but unless you got a substantial break in the price I think you have the right to expect an intact paint job. If it really bothers you (esp. as a splurge for your 64th birthday) I think you’d be well within your rights to return it and keep looking. Touch-up paint and nail polish are fine suggestions, and will look OK from 10 feet away, but won’t undo the damage. Bikes that get ridden get dinged up, no doubt about it, so if you can make your peace with the fact that damage is inevitable maybe you can just live with it.

I also like the idea of a strategically deployed decal or sticker, but I think one must be careful to not to go overboard. I have one sticker on my Hunq and it’s from the Association of Caffeinated Wheelers (https://bradclick.bigcartel.com/products), which suits my aesthetic quite well. Maybe you can find a sticker relating to a hobby or cause that you connect with that would cover and/or distract from the defect.

Jay Lonner

Bellingham, WA

Sent from my Atari 400

On Jun 22, 2022, at 7:19 AM, Kiley Demond <khde...@gmail.com> wrote:

As some of you know, I have been looking for an early-model 59cm Clem L, preferably orange with blue the runner-up. I preferred frame-only because I knew that I would probably replace 80% of the components. For some reason, I took the wheels too. The frame was pristine but in shipping, the wheels were lashed to the frame with a tie-wrap, the hub protector popped off, and the hub proceeded to gouge the frame for several days in transit.

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[Joe Bernard]

Btw the frame itself isn't damaged, which I just realized is a worry you expressed in your post. No dent and it would take a long time for any rust to form, it just needs paint or nail polish to protect the surface. 

[Garth]

I've been in a similar situation where I bought a used frame that was damaged in shipping. I never thought once of returning it even though it required the work of a frame builder. It was a perfect fitting bike, and it was at-hand..... why would I return it ? Fix it and ride it baby !  I wasn't going to let a damaged dropout stop that.

Paint scrapes on an otherwise intact bike , The disappointment or whatever emotion that arises, passes like water under the bridge.... look ! ... there it went !

When I was kid during summer my head seemed to have an affinity for rocks, hose ends, hockey sticks, and anything else that could fly through the air. ER visits requiring stitches were no big deal. ((( shrugs )))  yeah .... so what ? Is that all there is to a few stitches ? ((( laughing ))) Really ?  They give me a band-aid to cover the boo-boo and I was back to playing, as what is One's nature but to Play ? It's the most natural thing in the world .

So play !

Like that Peggy Lee song ..... Is That All There Is ?

If that's all there is .... (to this, that and the other so called wrongs of the world) ..... then let's keep dancing ......

Testors paint, from my experience, will offer that vibrant, deep richness of that Orange paint. I've used nail polish but while the bottles looked so promising, in practice it just didn't have that depth the Testors does, at least the nail polish I tried. There's so many .... sheesh..... it makes your head spin. Maybe some brands offer better depth. Back in the day, one winter, I was feeling creative and hand painted some of the lugs orange on my Silver '83 Stumpjumpet with Testors and yes, that stuff is tough, and richly toned. Just painted right over the silver and they were a nice bold Orange with no see through !

[Ian A]

It would be a good idea to let the seller know it happened. Maybe they have suggestions too. Otherwise, if you want this model and color, it makes sense to keep the frame. Touch up by a professional would look just fine, and it's an opportunity to personalise the frame too. I've seen a number of early Rivendell customs with the owner's name painted in script on the top tube, which was maybe a service one of the painters offered. 

Either a close match touch up, a contrasting color touch up or something very creative (designed by a young family member, maybe?) and just enjoy your new gift to yourself. And if and when you put a scratch on the bike yourself.

IanA Alberta Canada

[Ian A]

Sorry, poor editing. I had written "if and when you put a scratch on it yourself, it might no feel as bad" but had intended to delete that entire sentence on the basis it felt trite.

Ian "always porof read" in Alberta Canada

[James Valiensi]

That sucks. I just spilled super glue on a 8k paint job, so I feel your pain.

That can be easily fixed. It has to be sanded smooth. Then primed and lightly sanded. The color is solid and should be easy to match. A little elbow grease and it will blend in like was never scratched. 

See if there is a RAL number for paint. There are places where you can order spay paint made to custom colors. 

Or just ride the liven’ crap out of it, like there is no tomorrow (well, because there may not be one) and repaint the entire frame down the road. 

Cheers!

On Jun 22, 2022, at 8:45 AM, Jay Lonner <jay.l...@gmail.com> wrote:

That’s a tough break and I can understand your disappointment. Riv/Grant seems to be of two minds when it comes to stuff like this – on the one hand they extol the aesthetics of fancy lugs and exquisite Joe Bell paint jobs, and on the other they seem pretty laissez faire about “beausage” (ugh) once the bikes are in the wild. 

I don’t know how rare these frames are, and how attached you are to this particular vintage/color, but unless you got a substantial break in the price I think you have the right to expect an intact paint job. If it really bothers you (esp. as a splurge for your 64th birthday) I think you’d be well within your rights to return it and keep looking. Touch-up paint and nail polish are fine suggestions, and will look OK from 10 feet away, but won’t undo the damage. Bikes that get ridden get dinged up, no doubt about it, so if you can make your peace with the fact that damage is inevitable maybe you can just live with it.

I also like the idea of a strategically deployed decal or sticker, but I think one must be careful to not to go overboard. I have one sticker on my Hunq and it’s from the Association of Caffeinated Wheelers (https://bradclick.bigcartel.com/products), which suits my aesthetic quite well. Maybe you can find a sticker relating to a hobby or cause that you connect with that would cover and/or distract from the defect.

Jay Lonner

Bellingham, WA

Sent from my Atari 400

On Jun 22, 2022, at 7:19 AM, Kiley Demond <khde...@gmail.com> wrote:

As some of you know, I have been looking for an early-model 59cm Clem L, preferably orange with blue the runner-up. I preferred frame-only because I knew that I would probably replace 80% of the components. For some reason, I took the wheels too. The frame was pristine but in shipping, the wheels were lashed to the frame with a tie-wrap, the hub protector popped off, and the hub proceeded to gouge the frame for several days in transit.

I bought this for myself for my 64th birthday and I am bitterly disappointed. I can return the frame and start my search over, or I can propose remediation. What will it take to fix this? I can live with a little bit of marking but it obviously needs to be repaired to seal the frame and reduce the cosmetic sting. I can contact Riv about touch-up paint, but the frame is from 2016, so....

Thank you in advance for your thoughts.

-Kiley

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[Nick Payne]

I'll second the nail varnish suggestion. Several of my bikes (including a Riv custom with a Joe Bell paint job) have repairs to the paintwork that I've done with nail varnish - on some of them the varnish has been there the best part of 20 years, and is still protecting the frame.

Nick

[Kiley Demond]

Thank you everyone for all the wonderful suggestions and reassurance. When I unwrapped the tubes, I found this damage as well—certainly a little trickier to disguise. I will let you know if I keep the frame (I am awaiting a better offer than just their return shipping cost) and how it goes. kd

On Wednesday, June 22, 2022 at 7:19:01 AM UTC-7 Kiley Demond wrote:

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

This same thing happened to me, only I was the seller. I was selling my mother in law’s turquoise Clementine. It was nearly mint. I paid REI to pack and ship the bike to the seller, who lived in the northern part of the country. When the bike arrived he was astounded at the paint damage - REI hadn’t secured the wheels properly and, well, I’ll add photos in a moment. 

Anyway, I offered him $500 off the frame or return to me at my cost; he chose to take the discount. Though amicably resolved, I felt sick over it. I went to REI with the photos. I got nowhere fast - they said it wasn’t their fault. They tried to blame the shipper. (The box was totally undamaged. The problem came from INSIDE the box.) They offered to have it cheaply powder coated. They put me off. Finally, they accused the buyer of intentionally damaging the bike so he could get a discount. I was persistent and they finally gave me some money back. But to this day, when I think of it, I get a knot in the pit of my stomach.

I’m sorry this happened to you.

Leah 

[Joe Bernard]

Oof, your poor beautiful turquoise Clementine still hurts my heart, too..that episode was a whole journey! 😩

Kiley, refunding shipping is a ridiculous offer, they didn't pack that frame/wheels correctly and you have major paint damage in very noticeable areas. Ignore my original advice to not be like me and be like me: I'd return for a full refund and start over. 

Joe "sometimes be like me" Bernard 

[Leah Peterson]

A true tragedy, yes. The kicker was that REI had ALSO boxed up my Betty and it was waiting to be shipped as soon as I had a buyer. I was a nervous wreck thinking they had possibly bungled the packing of that Betty as well. No such tragedy occurred though. All was well. I’m much happier with my Michigan bike shop. I think I went through the entire collection of them in Vegas.

On Jun 23, 2022, at 12:24 PM, Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:

Oof, your poor beautiful turquoise Clementine still hurts my heart, too..that episode was a whole journey! 😩

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[RichS]

Dear Kiley:

Your disappointment is understandable; I would have felt the same way. Plenty of good remedies and moral support offered here. Testors paint is certainly a good choice. If not an exact match you should be able to find a color that's close and eventually you may not notice since you'll be happily riding!

Anecdotal but I have shipped several frames and always packed them myself following the Rivendell packing tutorial and never had a complaint. Likewise the Riv frames I've received have never had a blemish. Just a guess but I bet most bike shops would not take the time and effort required to prepare and package using Rivendell's meticulous approach (See Leah's experience). It is a LOT of time and work to do it right -- gathering material, packing and if necessary a trip to the shipper. Certainly provides peace of mind considering how shippers handle cartons.

Note: UPS sells shipping boxes for bikes but my local store says they won't insure if shipping with a used bike box. Full disclosure: I have shipped with a used, undamaged Riv box adding reinforcing where I felt necessary.

Good luck with your repair and hopefully there is no damage to the frame. Enjoy your new ride!

Best,

Rich in ATL

[Joe Bernard]

Indeed, Rich, this is how I designated myself a super-good bike packer after too many bad "professional" jobs I'd paid for. I despise the whole process and hope I never do it again (🙏🤞) but I learned the hard way that no one is going to go slower and be more meticulous than good-old me. Never again! 

[Matthew Williams]

Hi Kiley,

Ouch, that hurts! The first paint chip or scratch is always the worst, especially if it’s not from a ride and you didn’t cause it.

Over the years, my bike has suffered a lot of chips and scratches. When I first got my bike I too was upset about the damage, but I made peace with it by remembering I’m fighting entropy. Also, the chips and scratches show my bike is ridden often, and they're attached to memories of rides past: the scratch on my seat from when I leaned my bike against a barbed-wire fence, the rock chip from a railroad track, the polished paint from my jeans against the frame. The chips and scratches and scuffs are part of what make the bike mine.

I would look for a compromise; ask for some sort of shipping refund but I would not return the frame, especially if it’s one for which you’ve been searching. I would then patch the damage with model paint, and think of the scratch as part of the bike’s history, like a scar in a well-worn leather jacket. Whenever you see your bike amongst others, you’ll always know there are many like it--but that one is yours.

Here’s how I used to fix paint chips:

https://groups.google.com/g/rbw-owners-bunch/c/JfGHDodtmZc/m/T85s2YKWAgAJ

On Jun 22, 2022, at 7:19 AM, Kiley Demond <khde...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Ian A]

+1 Matthew's advice is extremely rational. It is becoming increasingly more difficult to find exact models of any bike nowadays and with a skillful repair, the bike is literally as good as new, albeit with a marred decal. I would say,I don't have Matthew's touch up skill and might choose to go the professional touch up route, as I would somehow make it worse.

IanA Alberta Canada

[Max S]

Something similar just happened here, too. In my case, I'm the buyer; the frame was damaged enough - deep gouge in the top tube that resulted from something hard smacking and dragging / digging into it - that even if I just paint over it with nail polish, you'll see the huge dent. 

I don't know whether I'll get reimbursed by the shipping company (due to obvious damage to the box, which I documented in my damage claim) or by the seller (a facilitator who did the packing, who seems to have done a decent job on their end). But this bike was intended as a gift, so I'm proceeding with having the frame repaired and potentially repainted entirely anyway. It hurts financially, but I'm hoping that the years of enjoyment to follow will make up for it. 

- Max "dented and flawed, but hopefully not permanently damaged" in A2

[Kiley]

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[Dorothy C]

I'm so sorry to hear that Kiley. Maybe after you touch up the paint you could put a leather top tube protector on like I did with my Clem. Velo Orange used to sell them, but I made mine from a piece of leather I got from a list member who was selling some leather scraps. 

I can also recommend Mineral Fusion brand nail polish if you decide to go that route - they have very saturated colors. I have used the "Cerulean Rock" shade on my 2017 sky blue Appaloosa to cover some small chips. I don't see an orange on their website, but I am sure they have more colors if you try Whole Foods or Sprouts Market.

[Dorothy C]

Another view of the leather protector, this is the one I made for my Cheviot. I cut the leather to width with scissors, then ran the edges through my unthreaded sewing machine with a large needle in it to make guide holes. Then I stitched it on with a baseball stitch with nylon upholstery thread, which was the thickest I had lying around. You can find instructions on Youtube to see how to do the baseball stitch. For the one on the Clem, I still cut a rectangle, but stretched and smoothed it to shape the curved tube as I was stitching it on. I cut a little notch out on the underside to clear the brake cable boss. I made these so I wouldn't kick the paint when stepping through the frame.