Tire choice, tubeless vs. tubes

[Richard Rose]

Greetings. I plan to install either Rene Herse Juniper Ridge (48mm) or Umtanum Ridge (55mm) tires on my new Clem Smith Jr. It currently has G1 all round tires in 2.25" width (57mm). Running tubes currently, considering tubeless. I actually quite like the G1 tires but they are heavy. I weigh 170 lbs. and use the bike primarily for mixed surface rides, preferably smooth gravel / hardpack including light touring / bikepacking. I have the Fleecer Ridge (55mm) tires on a different bike and they are pretty great tubeless. I am leaning towards the Junipers to insure ample room for (future?) fenders but interested in others opinions, especially on a Clem. In any case I will likely use the standard casing and the rims are Cliffhangers. I have had favorable comments from a couple of Juniper users but have yet to talk to anyone using the larger tire.

Thanks!

[Nick Payne]

I only use tubeless setup on the one bike that I regularly ride several times each week. On other bikes, which might spend several weeks at a time hanging up and not being ridden, I don't set them up as tubeless, even if they have tubeless-compatible tyres and rims, because while the bikes are not being ridden, the sealant sits in the lowest part of the tyres and gradually becomes a solid plug at that point. I could pull each bike down a couple of times a week and rotate the tyres, but it's simpler to keep them as tubed.

I guess this is only a problem if, like me, you have too many bikes...

Nick

[ascpgh]

+1 to NIck's point. 

Tubeless is a good choice if you ride often enough or are disciplined enough to keep your sealant circulated and the tire is an appropriate size. My trusted LBS feels that 42 is the width that clearly reaches the positive benefit/detriment balance (that was relative to my conversation regarding 650B wheels).Their feeling comes from combined experiences with conversions, bike and wheel builds as well as maintenance of customer bikes with all sorts of tubeless wheels. They sell plenty of mountain and trail bikes but also stock RH, SON, B&M and Orange Seal products. They're too small to stock everything so they have already discriminated to inventory. A nice treat compared to either the brand shop stocking only the mother ship's product or the P-mart wannabe LBS with every product made on the shelf. Experience is pointless if not shared.

I heeded their advice with my Baby Shoe Pass bike when building it up. I had been in the tubed camp before that out of inertia and a lack of experience. With their encouragement and having read of many listers' adventures with tubeless, I moved beyond my hesitations. With respect to their input and my own insight, my 700x40 commuter remains tubed partly because it's a 90% likelihood it will be dark if I did have a flat and I'm not interested enough in the tubeless benefits for the Schwalbe Marathon tires to face the task of using a tube to inflate a failed tubeless tire on the roadside, at night after a long day at work. Certainly not interested in arriving to work late, covered in liberated tubeless sealant following the task.

I think you'll enjoy the newfound lightness and ride of your tubeless setup.  

Andy Cheatham

Pittsburgh

[lconley]

All of my bikes still have tubes. Tubeless is a solution to a problem that I do not have - just seems like added maintenance to me. I have changed to Velo-Plugs instead of rim tape in the last few years though - re-useable and lighter than cloth rim tape.

Tubeless doesn't sound like the most environmentally sound thing to do either. What exactly is evaporating into the atmosphere anyway?

Laing

Delray Beach FL

[Richard Rose]

I cannot answer those questions, I just do not know. I have however benefited from tubeless on my various mountain bikes for years. And it has saved me from having to repair a flat on my cold, dark commute. That said, not sure I need it on this bike. I will mention that Tanglefoot Cycles has said “every touring bike should be tubeless”, and they are very well known for being environmentally responsible.

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 9, 2022, at 9:08 AM, lconley <lco...@brph.com> wrote:

All of my bikes still have tubes. Tubeless is a solution to a problem that I do not have - just seems like added maintenance to me. I have changed to Velo-Plugs instead of rim tape in the last few years though - re-useable and lighter than cloth rim tape.

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[Patrick Moore]

Goatheads: YES. No goatheads: tubes NO, tubeless probably.

Sealant is wonderful and something you really don't want to avoid if you live in goathead country, since it lets you ride wonderful light and supple tires that, without sealant, would get literally a thorn flat every 2-5 miles. As I've repeated endlessly, Orange Seal regular in tubes (Endurance does not work, but the Regular does not dry into a lump as Stan's did back circa 2014), and OS Endurance tubeless (does not dry into lumps; dries instead into a skin on the inside of the casing, tho' if you open up a tire where the sealant is only half-dried, you'll find sticky strings and membranes stretching throughout the casing).

BUT!!! Were it not for goatheads, and were I riding in evironments where flats were rare, say no more than 1 a week for all bikes (yep, that's rare for me; I'd be happy to fix 1 flat per week), I'd not bother with it for tubes; easy enough to patch tubes or swap in a spare and patch the flatted one at home. And, sealant, for all its benefits, is still a hassle and messy compared to no sealant. For well-designed tubeless tires set up tubeless on well-designed tubeless rims, like Big Ones on Blunt SS's, I might still use sealant, and carry plugs for bigger holes, since the resulting minor hassle and occasional mess is little more annoying than 1 flat per week, and if you can avoid a 250 gram tube, why not? (Esp when tires are only 450 grams.)

[Patrick Moore]

As for toxic fumes leaked by sealant into the atmosphere, I'd bet a dollar or more that these are less than the fumes leaked by vulcanizing fluid into the air when you fix a puncture in your tube.

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Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

[Clark Fitzgerald]

I had 2.25 G1 all round tires tubeless- made for a plush, buttery ride. The 55mm Rene Herse knobbies tubeless were similar, but noticeably louder / more annoying on pavement.

Now I'm on 48mm Rene Herse knobbies with tubes and they are *much* quieter and more precise handling on pavement than the two above tires.

[Richard Rose]

Thank You, very helpful.

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 9, 2022, at 7:58 PM, Clark Fitzgerald <clark...@gmail.com> wrote:

I had 2.25 G1 all round tires tubeless- made for a plush, buttery ride. The 55mm Rene Herse knobbies tubeless were similar, but noticeably louder / more annoying on pavement.

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[eddietheflay]

maybe thread drift but if you have not tried tubeless yet, think twice. when you do get a puncture that does not seal and whatever hole filler you use does not fill the hole, and you have to eventually use a tube to proceed on your ride, that may be the point at which you ask yourself why you went tubeless. there's nothing quite like dealing with a tire with a bunch of liquid goo rolling around in it while you try to install a tube. one of the these messes by the side of the road was the event that made me love tubes again.

[Bill Lindsay]

In my stable, the tubeless bikes are only the bikes whose tires are wider than 2.2"  Everything 2.2" and under is still running tubes.  

Bill "not goathead country" Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA