Gus and Susie ride off into the sunset

[Paul M]

If you read the current Rivendell Blahg (Grants blog) he mentions that the last fillet brazed Hillibikes, the Gus & Susie shipment that just arrived, will be it for that those models being made. So last chance at owning a beautiful ATB frameset.

[Luke Hendrickson]

Yeah, I guess the frame builders prefer making lugged framesets over fillet brazing. Too bad, but looking forward to the bike Riv makes that’s sorta between the Susie & Gus. 

[Joe Bernard]

Apparently the fillets cost more to do, the Gus/Susie are already $250 more than the lugged frames and were going to go higher if they did another run. These are great frames, if money/opportunity ever lines up for me I'm going to grab a Gus. If you want one now and have the cash, buy it! 

Joe Bernard 

[Richard Rose]

I am feeling so very lucky to have found a Gus. On the subject of Gus/Susie bikes; who among us are using a crankset with shorter than 165mm cranks in an effort to improve pedal clearance on rough trails? I’ve been researching available cranks and finding interesting possible benefits other than pedal clearance.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 8, 2023, at 11:52 PM, Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:

Apparently the fillets cost more to do, the Gus/Susie are already $250 more than the lugged frames and were going to go higher if they did another run. These are great frames, if money/opportunity ever lines up for me I'm going to grab a Gus. If you want one now and have the cash, buy it! 

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[Joe Bernard]

You found a great bike! I'm the resident short cranks whisperer around here, here's the Sugino XD600 152mm on my custom. I had same on a Susie for a short time but it never saw dirt so I can't vouch for clearance, but it's definitely going to be a lot and definitely worked on that bike for general riding.  

I think most people ride longer cranks than they need cuz that's what bikes come with so that's what they ride. Is 170 or 175 good if you're really tall or grinding a big single gear up a steep hill? Surely. But I'm 5'-6" and kinda old and creaky and my back and hips don't need all that range of motion on a bike ride..I ride shorties! 

Joe Bernard

[Richard Rose]

Joe - pm’ed you.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 9, 2023, at 9:22 PM, Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:

You found a great bike! I'm the resident short cranks whisperer around here, here's the Sugino XD600 152mm on my custom. I had same on a Susie for a short time but it never saw dirt so I can't vouch for clearance, but it's definitely going to be a lot and definitely worked on that bike for general riding.  

I think most people ride longer cranks than they need cuz that's what bikes come with so that's what they ride. Is 170 or 175 good if you're really tall or grinding a big single gear up a steep hill? Surely. But I'm 5'-6" and kinda old and creaky and my back and hips don't need all that range of motion on a bike ride..I ride shorties! 

Joe Bernard

<Screenshot_20230109_181352.jpg>

On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 3:59:23 PM UTC-8 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:

I am feeling so very lucky to have found a Gus. On the subject of Gus/Susie bikes; who among us are using a crankset with shorter than 165mm cranks in an effort to improve pedal clearance on rough trails? I’ve been researching available cranks and finding interesting possible benefits other than pedal clearance.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 8, 2023, at 11:52 PM, Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:

Apparently the fillets cost more to do, the Gus/Susie are already $250 more than the lugged frames and were going to go higher if they did another run. These are great frames, if money/opportunity ever lines up for me I'm going to grab a Gus. If you want one now and have the cash, buy it! 

Joe Bernard 

On Sunday, January 8, 2023 at 8:18:04 PM UTC-8 Luke Hendrickson wrote:

Yeah, I guess the frame builders prefer making lugged framesets over fillet brazing. Too bad, but looking forward to the bike Riv makes that’s sorta between the Susie & Gus. 

On Sunday, January 8, 2023 at 7:32:22 PM UTC-8 Paul M wrote:

If you read the current Rivendell Blahg (Grants blog) he mentions that the last fillet brazed Hillibikes, the Gus & Susie shipment that just arrived, will be it for that those models being made. So last chance at owning a beautiful ATB frameset.

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<Screenshot_20230109_181352.jpg>

[iamkeith]

On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 4:59:23 PM UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:

I am feeling so very lucky to have found a Gus. On the subject of Gus/Susie bikes; who among us are using a crankset with shorter than 165mm cranks in an effort to improve pedal clearance on rough trails? I’ve been researching available cranks and finding interesting possible benefits other than pedal clearance.

Have you tried a longer crank, or are you just building yours up for the first time and assuming you'll want more clearance?  (Based perhaps on experience with other rivendell models.)  My single conplaint about my Susie is that the botgom bracket is too high.  Its not at all like my Clem or my other most-ridden mountain bikes from other companies, that are all much lower..  I've probably  learned to adjust my pedaling technique from previous experience, and my huge 2.8 tires probably have something to do with it too but, in case you haven't done so, you should try it with normal/long* cranks to see if it is really an issue. (*mine are 175)

On topic - it is definitely sad to see these go.  Grant orginally said that it might only be the first batch that was fillet brazed, but didn't suggest that the models would just "disappear."  Seems a shame to throw in the towel and not keep them going in some form, even if they're just tigged.  That's how the Charlie Gallop - with similar top tube curve -  will be built, right?  With the Clem(entine) moving further away from its original mountain/hill bike concept, and with the Hunquapillar long gone, this just feels like a slot that needs filled to me.

[Joe Bernard]

The original plan was there would be two price points for both models, fillet and TIG. Then the TIGs didn't happen and the fillets got pricier and I think they lost interest in the whole thing. My guess is Grant/Riv got tired of fighting the "those fat tires are hard to use with v-brakes" argument and moved on, but this is complete speculation on my part. I know nothing! 

[Richard Rose]

Legit question. I am moving from a full suspension trail bike to the Gus. I have ridden my Clem (27.5 x 2.25) with 173mm cranks and have been reminded of how alarming pedal strokes can be! But, I really enjoy the trail experience on the Clem otherwise. I realize the Gus has a slightly higher BB than the Clem & the Gus is 29 x 2.6. So yes, I am trying to be mitigate possible problems. I like the Silver crank on the Clem but I will likely use a 165mm Crank on the Gus. But, I am watching with keen interest the increasing availability of even shorter cranks.

And yes, I know technique comes into play here, and I am looking forward to refining mine.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 10, 2023, at 12:01 AM, iamkeith <keith...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Brian Turner]

I understand your intent to avoid crank or pedal contact, but personally I wouldn’t base my crank length on the potential for pedal strikes on rocks and roots. In this case, I would fall into the camp of being conscious of the terrain, refining your technique, and being mindful of your own personal skill level. If you’re getting lots of strikes with say, a 170mm or 165mm crank, I wouldn’t be confident that going even shorter than that is going to necessarily solve your issue.

On Jan 10, 2023, at 7:45 AM, Richard Rose <rmro...@gmail.com> wrote:

Legit question. I am moving from a full suspension trail bike to the Gus. I have ridden my Clem (27.5 x 2.25) with 173mm cranks and have been reminded of how alarming pedal strokes can be! But, I really enjoy the trail experience on the Clem otherwise. I realize the Gus has a slightly higher BB than the Clem & the Gus is 29 x 2.6. So yes, I am trying to be mitigate possible problems. I like the Silver crank on the Clem but I will likely use a 165mm Crank on the Gus. But, I am watching with keen interest the increasing availability of even shorter cranks.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/FF16B8BA-20F5-4CFC-9C18-5BA54008D393%40gmail.com.

[Garth]

"The last of the fillet brazed frames". I take that for what it says, it doesn't say or even infer there will be no more such frames at all. 

Ride on .... The Sun never sets ....

In regards to short cranks, I'm 6'-2" and change and I ride 150mm cranks and have for about a decade. I originally rode some Sugino 152's but after breaking two of those I sought out something different and went to Bikesmithdesign.com, whose speciality is shortening suitable cranks. He's very specific in what can and can't be shortened, and offers certain models of stock cranks that he custom shortens. I bought the gloss black Andel 110/74 triple shortened to 150mm. It's the model RSC6. It also formerly came stock on Surly LHT's. It's also sold as the Dimension Cross crank arm set. 

I also bought the 150mm SRAM 600(also black) 104/64 for my Susie, though still unridden. 

If you wonder why a tall rider with size 14 feet would use short cranks the reason is simple, 175 and 185mm cranks never lived up to what that those long crank theories theorize they offer. Moving my foot more over the pedal was a revelation when I first tried it, but with 185mm cranks it didn't feel right(too far forward), so I tried 175 and 170, but even those felt goofy, so I saw the 152 Sugino and everything just worked. Too bad they broke though, but good thing I tried the Andel as it feels notably stiffer, and it doesn't have that silly backwards 5th bolt. 

Andel is large crank manufacturer (andel.tw) and makes these RSC6 cranks stock from 150mm on up, in silver and black, double and triple.  I contacted the company in Taiwan and I could order some arm sets from them direct. The language difference left much to desire though, and while they quoted me a price and everything, going about how to actually finalize an order was lost in translation, so to  speak. So I held off for now.

On my road bike I ride 150mm 110 double Origin8 cranks, which I also like very much. If these were offered in triple I'd ride those too. Origin8 makes a short 130/74 but it's only offered in 145mm and 155mm and the cranks arms are not the same design as the doubles. 

There are many other crank makers that offer short cranks too. High Sierra Cycle(hscyle.com) is a long standing manufacturer of cranks of all sorts of lengths, and they make the Ritchey cranks and offer the same version unbranded for notably less $$. SRAM has offered 155mm MTB cranks for a number of years. Davinci has some nice cranks also down to 150mm. There's also other short BMX and cranks marketed as "kids"(though suitable for adults). There's more but that's enough for here. When I take a dive in rabbit hole .... I'm all in ..... ))) 

So what I experience using 150mm cranks and a more forward position over the pedal is both ease of spinning and leverage. For me, it's the best of both worlds, so to speak.... the leverage of a long crank and the spin ease and speed of a short one. I used to have to climb standing quite a bit, but with this I'm perfectly at ease doing either standing or sitting. I ride on "normal" flat pedals, the VP Vice, combined with Altra Lone Peak trail running shoes. My "motive" was all intuitional. Like finding your way through the Forest when there are no obvious trails. . The Way is there .... it's nearer than your nose ..... where you're not looking ))). 

Hey ... Don't ride like me, ride as Yourself ))) THAT is where the Fun is .  

The BB drop on the Susie is 70mm, at least, if I recall. Myself, I wouldn't change a working-for-me crank length out of fear of strikes. Fear is the invalid...... not the Rider. I bought the Susie full well knowing that it had a higher BB as my Bombadil has a 80mm drop and I can't say it offers anything special. I get the idea behind it, but that doesn't make it likable/suitable for everyone. I also didn't dig the Clem-L-entine look myself .... it looks like a girls bike. I also am not sold on the mega stay thing, or .... well .. I could go on and on...(laughing). Don't have a reactionary cow ... or do for that matter.... I'm just being honest and nothing is going to change that. 

[Richard Rose]

Fair point(s). As you can imagine, the full suspension bike has a pretty high bb, though not as high as current comparable bikes. I rarely experienced pedal strokes even pedaling through stuff that at my age I probably should not be doing!:)

I just looked at available solutions & thought it might be beneficial to shorten the cranks on the Gus to approximate the clearance I enjoyed on the suspension bike. To do so would require a 550mm crank arm.

To be honest, I had one particular & disconcerting pedal strike riding the Clem that really got my attention. This was a very familiar sweeping turn but off camber section that I always pedal through. The pedal dug into the uphill side of the bank & I nearly crashed. It was just so unexpected. I’ve accepted the notion that I may have to ride a bit slower & less aggressive than I am used to. But to the degree that I can minimize these things with the right choice now seems smart.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 10, 2023, at 8:01 AM, Brian Turner <brok...@gmail.com> wrote:



To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/33ABD223-3797-4E0F-BC25-38B5038BE796%40gmail.com.

[Brian Turner]

The following is a quote from Will at Rivendell, from some email correspondence early last year regarding the Gus/Susie availability. He didn't mention anything about production costs, but that makes sense to me.

"We have one more small run of them coming sometime late this year... and after that they're discontinued. We plan to bring the hillibike concept back, but it'll be an amalgamation of both the Gus and the Susie so we don't have to get two models at once."

Personally, I always found it a bit odd that they made two such similar models in the Gus and Susie concept. I understand the Gus completely, but Susie seemed a bit redundant given that basically everything anyone would want in a Susie could be found in the Clem L, and you could make an argument that the Clem L is a more capable, versatile (and sturdy?) frame given all the weird qualifying weight limitations that were imposed on the Susie, despite it looking very much like the Gus and offering what seemed to be more ATB-ness than other Riv models (which of course is highly subjective).

I'm very curious as to what the future holds for the lineage of the Hillibike!

[Ryan Frahm]

I run a 172 on my Susie and it is plenty high with the 2.5” for some pretty chunky terrain. I have a 170 on my Clem with 2” and it is about an inch lower. These bikes are so long that I understand wanting a bit more clearance but if a 170 is comfortable I think the bike is high enough to pedal through anything these bikes can pedal through. I’m still getting used to the Susie as a mountain bike really. Chunky climbs are tough for me because if I get off the seat at all, instant loss of traction. Pedal strikes hasn’t been an issue at all though. 

[Richard Rose]

You all are right. I just got my wheels / tires and got my first good look at this rig in person. The bb is much higher than I anticipated - within 1/2 centimeter of my full suspension MTB (for sale:)).

This beast should be a hoot.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 10, 2023, at 9:12 AM, Ryan Frahm <fra...@gmail.com> wrote:

I run a 172 on my Susie and it is plenty high with the 2.5” for some pretty chunky terrain. I have a 170 on my Clem with 2” and it is about an inch lower. These bikes are so long that I understand wanting a bit more clearance but if a 170 is comfortable I think the bike is high enough to pedal through anything these bikes can pedal through. I’m still getting used to the Susie as a mountain bike really. Chunky climbs are tough for me because if I get off the seat at all, instant loss of traction. Pedal strikes hasn’t been an issue at all though. 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/5d8fd183-fcb1-4c4e-ad34-d427ec40c15bn%40googlegroups.com.

[Kim Hetzel]

Looking real good there Richard. I am sure that you will be hooting and hollering down the road and through the woods, when she is all put together.

Thank-you for sharing.

Kim Hetzel

Yelm, WA.

[Ryan Frahm]

Looks great Richard! Can’t wait to hear how you like it when it’s all done!

[Joe Bernard]

Richard, that is a fine and lovely bicycle. Enjoy! 

Joe "I want one" Bernard 

On Wednesday, January 11, 2023 at 3:22:30 PM UTC-8 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:

[Ronald Halili]

First time Riv owner here sharing pics of my Gus build. I had lots of inspiration from the Blue Lug website. I have only rode it a few miles though and still trying to get the squeal out of the brakes. So far so fun!

https://photos.app.goo.gl/nWnCevTy8pV3AKNZ7

[Brian Turner]

Gorgeous Gus build, Ronald! You can definitely see the Blue Lug influence! Your rig looks very comfortable and practical. I love it.

My Gus is my first Rivendell as well... welcome to the club!

-Brian

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/ba13be25-3389-46d4-b961-f4094a9a4ebcn%40googlegroups.com.

[Eric Marth]

I've never ridden one of these frames but olde Tall Paul brought one along for our overnighter back in the fall. 

The Blue Lug galleries are always a great place to draw inspiration, such clean and well-appointed bikes and their Rivendell builds are some of the best around!

[Steve]

Ron, judging from the pic your Gus looks to be one of filet brazed models?  Nicely done build! I've been thinking about a Homer, but more and more the ATB qualities of the Gus/Susie and even the Platypus are looking attractive, and I think would be a better successor for my hard tail carbon fiber MTB that I've decided to part ways with.

[Ronald Halili]

Thanks Steve! I too decided to part ways with my previous bike which was a lugged 1983 Specialized Expedition (kinda like a Homer) but what I really wanted was a step through frame. I initial wanted (and still do) was a 52cm Clem Smith L with ATB qualities. After building, I realized the Gus not really step through but its okay, I still enjoy it. Also, I thought all Gus/Susie are filet brazed, are they not?

[JW]

All Susie/Gus are fillet brazed, regardless of color. 

There was talk of going to tig welded after the last batch but it sounds like they'll be discontinued all together.

[Paul M]

I have a new XL (59cm) Lime-Olive Susie Longbolt frameset for sale that I'm most likely posting later in the week. I picked up a 56cm Susie from the most recent Rivendell offering of the Hillibikes and need to pass the bigger one on. Price is $1900 plus shipping. New never ridden. Thanks, Paul

[Ryan Frahm]

I wasn’t going to mention to very nice Large gold Susie I have listed on here but I guess it’s okay. Haha. That green looks super nice Paul! I’m glad you were able to snag a Large, they go quick!

[Paul M]

I was hoping for a large when they went on sale last year and they certainly sold out fast. The XL is fine in the height but it's 68.5cm effective top tube is so long. The 56cm has a 66cm top tube length. They used a 31.8mm diameter top tube on the XL (like the Gus) and a 28.6mm top tube on the 56cm and smaller frames.

[Ryan Frahm]

They definitely went fast! I had a green in my cart and got distracted, gone. Went for the gold and was lucky. I think it was 4 minutes or so and they were gone! 

[Richard Rose]

So was the XL a reach for you (bad pun) or are you truly between sizes?

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 31, 2023, at 7:46 PM, Paul M <mott...@gmail.com> wrote:

I was hoping for a large when they went on sale last year and they certainly sold out fast. The XL is fine in the height but it's 68.5cm effective top tube is so long. The 56cm has a 66cm top tube length. They used a 31.8mm diameter top tube on the XL (like the Gus) and a 28.6mm top tube on the 56cm and smaller frames.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/95976a72-ecf3-4c45-b885-c638b6ace8b4n%40googlegroups.com.

[Kim Hetzel]

I am hoping that the Clem Smith Jr. "L" frameset is not discontinued and rides off into the sunset. I would really love to buy a 59cm Clem Smith Jr. "L"  in RBW Blue and in turn sell my lime olive frameset. 

Kim Hetzel

Yelm, WA.

[Paul M]

Both. I wanted to use a Chocomoose handlebar set-up on the XL Susie and it felt too stretched out for me when I was checking different options for the build that never happened. A 88 PBH put me high and low for these two sizes. Ended up with a few extra stem/bar combinations.

[JAS]

Kim, there's a blue 59 Clem L on the Portland Craigslist for you though it's a fully built bike. 

https://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/bik/d/portland-rivendell-clem-smith-step-thru/7583972221.html 

--Joyce

[Kim Hetzel]

Thank-you, Joyce. I appreciate it.

Kim Hetzel

Yelm, WA.

[Kim Hetzel]

I meant to say that I would really love to buy a 59cm Clem Smith Jr. "L" frameset in RBW blue and turn around and sell my 59cm lime olive frameset.

Kim Hetzel

Yelm, WA.

[Ryan Frahm]

Hey Kim, believe it was in a Riv email over the last couple months that the Clem will be back in April! Not sure if that was frames or completes though. Hopefully they’ll have a blue frame for you!

That one for sale is nice, but $3900 seems a bit crazy. I’d sell my Susie for that and it’s a nicer build!

[Brian Turner]

Yeah, that Clem seems about $1K too steep.

On Feb 1, 2023, at 2:11 PM, Ryan Frahm <fra...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hey Kim, believe it was in a Riv email over the last couple months that the Clem will be back in April! Not sure if that was frames or completes though. Hopefully they’ll have a blue frame for you!

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/d33e189e-57b3-413b-8161-de969da8fe1an%40googlegroups.com.

[Ryan Frahm]

Makes me think someone should buy my Susie for such a sweet deal! Haha. 

[Joe Bernard]

$3900 for a Clem?? That's a "partner told me to sell my bike" price. "Yes dear, I put it on Craigslist. No takers!" 😂

On Wednesday, February 1, 2023 at 11:21:38 AM UTC-8 brok...@gmail.com wrote:

[Ryan Frahm]

That makes sense Joe! 😂

[Brian Turner]

Haha, can’t say I haven’t been guilty of that same ploy!

On Feb 1, 2023, at 2:57 PM, Ryan Frahm <fra...@gmail.com> wrote:

That makes sense Joe! 😂

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/b642724e-1d67-4a37-b656-c58d5ac8489dn%40googlegroups.com.

[Kim Hetzel]

The Clem Smith Jr.s' will be back in April. That's wonderful news. I thank-you very much for the information. I appreciate it.

In the meantime, I can close my eyes and imagine my lime olive frameset is a RBW blue color. Obviously not when I am cycling on my Clem.

I contacted the seller of the $3900.00 Clem Smith Jr. "L" out of Portland, Oregon last night. I asked him/her, if there was interest in selling the frameset/fork/headset/BB. I got this response:

" Possibly. 

Someone is coming to look at the bike tomorrow. I’ll probably give it at least a few weeks before parting it out. 

I’ll keep you in the loop / you’ll see it posted if i wind up going that route.

(Obviously if for some reason you wanted to buy frame for $3,000 the answer would simply be yes.)"

I thoroughly agree with you that the seller's pricing is very extreme by $1000.00 too much.  If it were a Gus or a Susie, I would completely understand.

I would rather wait til April to buy a new Clem, rather than a used one at this point in time.

Kim Hetzel

Yelm, WA.

[Kim Hetzel]

...I would rather wait until April to buy a new Clem in RBW blue, rather than buy a used RBW framset at this point in time.