NBOD: New Bike Ordered Day! The mythical canti-Roa!

[Bill Lindsay]

There are a number of threads on which I've mentioned a desire to own a Nobilette-built Roadeo with cantilever posts.  It came up in a thread about the Legolas, it came up in a thread about brevets on Rivs.  I've made no secret that I wanted a Canti-Roa.  There have been Canti-Roms, Canti-Rams, even Canti-Homers.  I'm on record saying that my ideal Riv road bike would be a Nobilette build, constructed of Roadeo/Legolas tubing, Roadeo Geometry, but the clearances of my Canti-Hillborne.  Putting my money where my mouth is, I'd stated a few times that if any of you would buy my existing Roadeo, that I'd put all your dollars right back to Riv and order a Canti-Roa.  

Well, it finally happened.  Lister Corwin needed my 59 Roadeo frame and fork, and today I sent all his dollars plus several of my own back to Rivendell to order a Canti-Roadeo.  Mark Abele and I are ironing out the details.  I've got no idea yet how long Nobilette's queue is at the moment, but I'm very excited.  I have no clue whatsoever on color yet.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[George Schick]

Bill - the canti-roadeo you envision sounds a lot like a cross bike.

[Bill Lindsay]

George Schick said it "sounds a lot like a cross bike"

Um...OK?  What is the purpose of your comment?  Are you recommending that I put knobbies on my forthcoming Canti-Roadeo and race cross on it?  Are you recommending that I cancel my order and buy an off the shelf cyclocross bike instead?  Are you opining that a road bike with cantilever brakes ceases to be a road bike?  Are you just applying your personal label to my forthcoming bike?

I have responses to all of those.  What are we discussing?

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[George Schick]

Bill - none of the above really.  I just see the geometry of the Roadeo as those of a typical "road" bike and, since those are the dimensions that cross bikes also have, adding canti's to it makes it more or less seem like a cross bike.  No big deal about it at all, just an observation.  Many years ago I made an inquiry to Waterford about having them build a bike that would basically be a modification of one of their standard road series frames, but with canti's.  I made the mistake by saying that I wanted it built that way so I could easily add and remove fenders between Winter and Summer riding seasons.  Apparently noses in Waterford, WI, flew up at the suggestion because I never go a reply one way or another.  Had such a frame been built, though, it would've been about the same as what you've ordered from Riv.

[Marty Gierke, Stewartstown PA]

I like the idea Bill, and wholeheartedly APPROVE! Are you thinking cantis, or v-brakes? Timing-wise the new Riv Vs might coincide with frame delivery. I'm guessing drop bars? Back in my distant past (and before Riv) I had canti bosses added to a Paramount I had custom built. That was a sweet bike (and one I never photographed...) so I get the attraction. Color-wise I lean in the direction of silver metallic (not grey) and have always liked the idea of a red head tube. I grabbed this pic years ago (someone here?) and it's still an inspiration. maybe add some red cable housing. 

Looking forward to following along. 

Marty

[Bill Lindsay]

George

OK, I understand your point, but I disagree with it.  The major difference I see between a road bike and a cyclocross bike is BB height (aka drop).  A cross bike with little drop has a higher BB, is more "nervous" aka "agile".  A road bike with more drop is more "planted" and "stable".  I own a cyclocross race bike, a Rivendell Legolas, and had my normal Roadeo.  Both bikes are great road bikes, and I rode both of them on brevets in 2021.  Since my Roadeo is recently gone, I rode my Legolas on two 50 milers this past weekend.  The major difference is how much more nervous the Legolas feels at speed on the road.  I attribute all of that to the difference to the BB height, and the Legolas has a lower BB height than a lot of cyclocross bikes.  

In addition to the geo difference, I approach my fit differently between a cyclocross race bike and a road bike.  I run a 57cm Legolas and a 59cm Roadeo.  

In addition to the above, Grant did a special 'knee' in BB height on the 59 (his size).  It's a few mm even lower.  

In addition to all the above, my build approach to a "road bike" and a "cyclocross race bike" is pretty different.  

I concede that any normal person can build an adequate "cantilever road bike" out of a cyclocross racing frameset.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Bill Lindsay]

Marty

"Compatibility with red" is a nice-to-have feature: Corwin elected to sell back the RED Chris King headset to me, and I have the red Fizik Arione saddle also.  

Silver with red could tie it all together.  
Cream with red headtube is the classic Roadeo trademark color.  It's what I had, and it's great.  Getting it again seems boring, but it looks great.  

Tuxedo black with cream looks great on tuxedo Hillbornes, and red as an accent to any tuxedo bike can work.  That's on my list.  

I could try to sell this red headset and use a different saddle.  There's time to think about it.

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[George Schick]

Bill - whoa!  Now I can see where you're coming from on this build.  Lots of different things going on here.  And I do understand about the difference between BB heights on a typical cross bike and something like the Roadeo (or the 8cm BB drop on my Ram for that matter).  However, I'm not sure I quite agree with the "skitishness" of a higher BB.  To the point, I have the 54cm Ram and I also have an updated/rebuilt '71/'72 Fuji Finest.  When I carefully place the two side by side I see that almost everything about the two bike frames is nearly equal except the BB height.  The Fuji has more like a 5cm BB drop.  Now, whenever I ride one of those two bikes, I always find the Fuji to be much more lively and responsive than the Ram - not that I think either is better or worse than the other.  So... must just be a difference in riding styles or something.

[Ryan]

Well,Bill, I'm excited for you and I'll be following along to see what the finished bike looks like knowing how detail-oriented you are

[Bill Lindsay]

George Schick said "I'm not sure I quite agree with the "skitishness" of a higher BB"

I didn't use the term "skitishness".  I said "nervous" and "agile", which I think is equivalent to what you are calling "lively" and "responsive".  We're talking about the same things.  I notice the differences, and I like the differences, and I want both bikes in my stable.  Neither is better.  On some rides I will pick my cross bike, and on other rides I will pick my road bike.  The difference between the two is why a road bike and a cross bike are different bikes, to me.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[George Schick]

Bill - sounds like the bottom line is that we basically agree with each other, though coming at it from slightly different directions.  Best of luck on your new canti-roa build and be sure to let us all know how things worked out in the end,

George

[Mike Godwin]

That sounds really neat Bill. I was always under the impression that a canti-roa may not fly with gate keepers at Riv. But since it is a custom from Riv and you are staying with the Riv design principles then it is go. Can't wait to see it.

Mike SLO CA 

[Steven Sweedler]

Here is a Rivendell custom road bike w/cantis  that I use to own. The original owner designed it with cantis to clear 28s and fenders, before such calipers were available. When Riv/Tektro brought out appriste brakes he had Peter Mooney install a rear brake bridge Max tire size that would fit was 700 x 30.   . Steve

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Steven Sweedler
Plymouth, New Hampshire

[Bill Lindsay]

Mike

You are right that there are gatekeepers.  In this case, the gatekeepers are Grant and Mark A.  Grant's main thing is if you buy a Roadeo, and they put Roadeo on it, it's got to be a Roadeo.  I asked them about the concept in principal back in 2020, and I was only like 60/40 that they would say yes, but they said OK at that time.  This week, I gave Mark A my full list of details, and Mark A cleared all of them, so I paid for it.  Now I'll wait and ride the other bikes in the stable...  

BL in EC

[Toshi Takeuchi]

So this is a semi-custom canti-Roadeo and not a full custom?  Threaded or threadless? Can't wait to see it!

Toshi

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[Matt Beecher]

Do what you want and don't get caught up with what others think.  I imagine when I put canti's on an early 70's Motobecane LeChampion, people thought I was trying to make a cross/touring bike.  I just really liked the bike and wanted different brakes...and a small trunk sack up front.  

Of course, you do need to make the paint purple.  Any other color would be ludicrous.  :D

Reading ahead, I am also curious if this is considered a Roadeo still, or full custom.  What will the decals say?

Best regards,

Matt

[Joe Bernard]

Ooh, I've never seen this silver/red Rivendell before. Looks familiar! 🙂

Joe "mine is dove gray and red" Bernard

On Tuesday, April 5, 2022 at 12:10:01 PM UTC-7 Marty Gierke, Stewartstown PA wrote:

[Nikko in Oakland]

I love that you're gonna have a Legolas and a canti-Roadeo. Other than the bb drop, what are the main geometry differences between the two? The ST/HT angle is more forward, correct? And they both will have different fork rake? 

Also, I think it's a solid choice for the tuxedo paint. That Sam is one of my favorite Rivs to look at. 

[Bill Lindsay]

Toshi and Matt asked whether my new frameset will be a Roadeo or a Rivendell Custom

Yes, it's a Roadeo.  It is priced like a Roadeo, will have Roadeo graphics, and is not a custom.  I went to rivbike.com, put a 59cm Roadeo in my cart and paid for it.  Over email with Mark A, I specified a bunch of details.  They included:

-threadless steerer (threaded and threadless are no-cost options)

-DT shifter bosses (shifter bosses or braze on cable stops are no-cost options)

-canti-posts (this is an option, and I don't know if there will be an upcharge)

-a Legolas fork crown instead of a Roadeo crown.  Holds the fork blades a tiny bit wider for easier canti-post placement.  Will not change the A-C fork length

-I will be using cantilever brakes, so I wanted a brazed on rear housing stop.  I asked Mark A if I could get a one-arm braze on like is pictured on one of his personal custom cross bikes, and he said OK.  I don't know what I'll pay for that

-Roadeo Top Tube slotted cable guides are normally down low and off-center from 6 o'clock.  Legolas slotted cable guides are at 12 o'clock for two cross-racing reasons.  I asked for mine off center up top, biased to the non-drive side

-fender attach points (no cost option)

BL in EC  

[Bill Lindsay]

Nikko asked about geometry nuances.  The Legolas has a little steeper STA and a little slacker HTA.  The Legolas has a higher BB (less drop).  The Roadeo has a longer effective TT.  The fork rake and chainstay length is essentially the same.  I downsize a race bike so I run a 57 Legolas and a 59 Roadeo.  

BL

[Jeff B]

Bill,

That sounds like an awesome bike! I've been thinking that if I could get Roadeo tubing on a frame like the Roadini with long chain stays and cant or center pull studs that would be a perfect bike for me. All the other options sound great too.

I look forward to seeing it built up.

JB, Woodland

On Tuesday, April 5, 2022 at 9:00:08 PM UTC-7 Ian A wrote:

Bill

I love the idea of a cantilever studded Rodeo. Will you be looking to increase the tire clearance compared to the standard Rodeo?  

IanA Alberta Canada

[Alex Wirth- Owner, Yellow Haus Bicycles]

Can’t wait to see it!! 😍

[John Hawrylak]

Bill

The canti-roadeo sounds great and I wish you the best of luck with it.  The rear brake bridge is smart idea for canti's or CPs.  Well worth the cost to eliminates the cable hanger and all of it's problems.   I'd vote for red with cream head tube, just think a darker main color looks best.

4 questions

What size tire will you use??

Sounds like you plan on using fenders.   What width are you planning on??

What brakes do you plan on using??

What is the lead time??   I thought the last Blaugh talked about closing the custom order book for a time and then starting again something like 1 year later

John Hawrylak

Woodstown NJ

[Ryan]

John, I thought Bill was ordering a custom, too...but it is actually the Nobilette-built Roadeo. Which I have to admit, of the non-custom Riv offerings, I find aesthetically very pleasing, if a classic road bike floats your boat...it still floats mine. 

[Bill Lindsay]

John

I will definitely run my current Roadeo wheelsets.  27mm tubulars.  Rene Herse Stampede Pass (622-32) and Bon Jon Pass (622-35).  For kicks I'll probably check how Barlow Passes look on the bike (622-38).  

I don't plan on using fenders.  I plan on being able to use fenders.  I don't have a width or model in mind at the moment.  

I am considering using Rene Herse Cantilevers.  Those brakes are super light, super minimalist, and very not-adjustable.  My opinion is that they can only work great when a master builder builds the frame and fork with those brakes in mind.  Weigle and Nobilette are the two who I'd trust to execute that, because both have done it dozens of times.  

I expect to take delivery about a year from now.  Nobilette's queue is indeed deep, and it contains other Roadeos, Riv customs, and Nobilettes.  I'm happy that Nobilette has the steady work, and hope he is charging what he needs to keep the lights on.  I was happy to pay the price I've paid.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Eamon Nordquist]

That’s going to be quite a bike. It’s almost exactly what I would ask for if I had the dough. I’m excited, and it’s not even my bike!

Eamon 

Seattle 

[Jason Fuller]

Just popping in to say I'm real excited about this - I can't have any more bikes at the moment so I will live vicariously through others, and this sounds rad. 

[zem...@gmail.com]

Sounds incredible, Bill! Looking forward to seeing the outcome. 

[Bill Lindsay]

...and 20 months later, it has arrived!  Rivendell received my Cantilever Roadeo from Nobilette this week, and it's off to paint.  I paid them a visit and gave it a look over.  It looks very nice and I'm eager to see it painted, and built up.  

On my visit I had a very nice chat with Grant about various things, and a few of the familiar old faces were there, so it was a pleasant visit all around.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

On Wednesday, April 6, 2022 at 11:15:17 AM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:

[George Schick]

You gonna stick with the default red/white Roadeo color scheme or choose something else?

[Ryan]

Can hardly wait to see it built up! Long wait but worth it I'm sure 

[Greg J]

Bill, You have an eclectic and wide ranging taste in bikes, and I am often surprised by your choices.  So I can’t wait to see where this one fits in your spectrum of rides. 

Greg

[Gary L]

Hi Bill - congrats on a great new addition. I did a similar build last year but went straight to Mark N (cause I have always wanted a fillet brazed frame). I asked for a geometry like my orange Ram with light tubing and clearance for big 650b tires using cantis. It is fantastic in every way and I'm sure yours will be too.

[Steven Sweedler]

Gary, very noce bike, is your bag also custom or a very tall model. How tall is it. Thanks, 

Steven Sweedler
Plymouth, New Hampshire

On Sat, Dec 2, 2023 at 10:32 AM 'Gary L' via RBW Owners Bunch <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Hi Bill - congrats on a great new addition. I did a similar build last year but went straight to Mark N (cause I have always wanted a fillet brazed frame). I asked for a geometry like my orange Ram with light tubing and clearance for big 650b tires using cantis. It is fantastic in every way and I'm sure yours will be too.

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[Gary L]

Hi Steven,

Thanks - the bag is a standard extra large Berthoud bag from Jan Heine’s site. It’s about 31cm tall.

[Steven Sweedler]

Gary, thanks, just over 12”, Ithought it looked taller, I just  got a used Waxwing bag that is 14”, I finally have the top of my bag level with my bars, makes reading maps so mych easier. 

Steven Sweedler
Plymouth, New Hampshire

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[Bill Lindsay]

Since starting this thread, I did spring for a fancy new wheel set that I'm pretty excited about.  I like the people and products at HED, and I appreciate their vestigial commitment to rim brakes.  They offer a premier rim treatment called RA black.  The rim is machined rough, and then hard anodized to give a super high friction braking surface.  It's supposed to be premier braking, and I'm excited to try it out.  

Mocking up the weights of things, I may be able to pull in a full build at 18.5 pounds without rack and fenders, and maybe (just maybe) at 19.99lbs with rack and fenders.  We'll see how it turns out...  it will not be red. 

BL in EC

[Sarah Carlson]

I love seeing someone else's bike dream fulfilled! Congratulations on your new bike day.... and what color did you paint your bike??!!!!! (I promise you all your RivSisters want to know...)

[Bill Lindsay]

I absolutely will be hoping for RivSister approval of my color way.  In my convo with Grant, he asked to photograph a number of the projects I've been working on or recently completed, like he may Blagh about it, and since this Canti-Roa is a relatively unique thing, I was going to give them first shot at the actual reveal.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, Ca

[Bill Lindsay]

Here is the Flickr album where I will post my photos.  https://www.flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/albums/72177720313109003/

There are several shots of the raw frame set in there now.  

BL in EC

[Nikko Mendoza]

The seat stay bridge. The dropouts. 🤌 Pretty rad. I can't wait to hear ride comparisons between this and the Legolas. Admittedly, I've been mentally dithering on re-raking my Legolas fork to make it chill out just a little bit and be possibly make it ride more like your canti-roadeo... but I wouldn't want to risk it's beautiful paint job in the process.  

You have a brake choice in mind already? 

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 3, 2023, at 8:06 AM, Bill Lindsay <tape...@gmail.com> wrote:

Here is the Flickr album where I will post my photos.  https://www.flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/albums/72177720313109003/

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[Ryan]

Brake choice is rh cantis.man even the raw frame is elegant

You can see nobilettes fine craftsmanship on display.

[Ryan]

My bad...rh was a choice but maybe Bill changed his mind

Pure fantasy...some Bruce Gordon ming the merciless cactus

Would be cool looking

[John Hawrylak, Woodstown NJ]

Bill

Nice photos of the frame.  The fork rake looks very nice.  A few questions after reading all the posts:

How much fork rake do you have??

How much BBD do you have??  Earlier you mentioned Grant used some extra BBD, based on his Roadeo?    I thought 80mm was RBW standard BBD for 700C wheels.

Did you get extra BBD to compensate for larger tires than say 700x32, e.g., increase the BBD so tires wider than 700x28/32 gives the same BBH as narrower tires??   

What was the main consideration for the canti's??   Obtain unrestricted tire clearance or something else??   

The fork crown looks very wide.  You mentioned it was not the standard RBW crown.   Do you know the inside width???

John Hawrylak

Woodstown NJ

[P W]

The perfect bike!

P. W.

~

(917) 514-2207

~

On Dec 3, 2023, at 8:06 AM, Bill Lindsay <tape...@gmail.com> wrote:

Here is the Flickr album where I will post my photos.  https://www.flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/albums/72177720313109003/

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/6d90f329-4e2d-43c4-be28-7da811abd6f3n%40googlegroups.com.

[Eamon Nordquist]

Damn, Bill! That's going to be a dream bike. Maybe you've already covered this and I missed it, but I'm curious whether you went with a  threaded or threadless fork?

Eamon

Seattle

[Bill Lindsay]

John H asked questions:

How much fork rake do you have??  As much as a Roadeo has

How much BBD do you have??  Earlier you mentioned Grant used some extra BBD, based on his Roadeo?    It's not 80, because the Roadeo isn't intended for 40+ mm tires.  It's a little less than 80.  If you seek out the geo-chart on the wayback machine you'll find it I'm sure.  

Did you get extra BBD to compensate for larger tires than say 700x32, e.g., increase the BBD so tires wider than 700x28/32 gives the same BBH as narrower tires??   No I did not.  It's still a Roadeo, not a custom

What was the main consideration for the canti's??   Obtain unrestricted tire clearance or something else??   There was no main consideration, just a bunch of little ones.  

The fork crown looks very wide.  You mentioned it was not the standard RBW crown.   Do you know the inside width???  It's a Legolas crown.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Bill Lindsay]

It's threadless.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[JohnS]

Hello Bill,

The frame and fork look great! Love being able to see the craftmanship of the lugs and welds with out the paint in the way. It should be wonderful to ride once it's done. As for "lawyer lips", I have to agree that they are not my favorite. Lately my wife and I have been getting out for rides on our 33 year old, custom built Rodriguez tandem, so pre-LL fork drop outs. Just makes it so much easier to remove and install the front wheel. Hard to believe that was the standard for so many years (I know why they are there, no need for anyone to lecture the benefits of them).

JohnS

[George Schick]

I'd say grind off the lawyer lips now before it gets painted.

[RichS]

Very nice Bill. Well worth the long wait. Thanks for sharing pics of the raw frame.

Best,

Rich in ATL

[Sarah Carlson]

I have already let Leah know, and we will be holding our breath for the big reveal wherever it shows up first. This is not even our first conversation about bike colors today, and won't be the last... because that's how we are. Your RivSisters are waiting!

On Sunday, December 3, 2023 at 7:13:08 AM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:

[Sarah Carlson]

Okay, still learning the bike terms... but what are lawyer lips? Because the image that comes to mind is someone who has indulged in too much botox and fillers and I am sure that is not what we are talking about here...

[Patch T]

Just tremendous. My ideal Riv road is similar to Bill's ideal Riv road. Can't wait to see how this turns out.

Bill, any further teasers you want to share about the build? 

Patch in NYC, but pretty soon in OAK, CA

[Bill Lindsay]

Sarahlikebikes asked about the definition of "lawyer lips":

Quick release front wheels were designed to release quickly.  You open the lever and the wheel comes out.  For people who didn't know how to operate a QR lever, it was the responsibility of the bike shop to instruct people how to use them safely.  Not everybody learned and several people over the years failed to install their wheel correctly and their wheel fell off while they were riding, and went over the bars.  The CPSC eventually mandated that the fork tips should have a raised ridge so the wheel wouldn't fall out even if the QR isn't tight.  Once consequence is that Quick releases are now slow releases.  You open the lever, and then unscrew them several turns to clear that raised ridge.  We call them lawyer lips.  Many of us who know how to use a QR and prefer them to be quick will grind them off.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Bill Lindsay]

The build will have a color matched Nobilette stem and a Shimano headset that I converted from threaded to threadless in my workshop.  Rene Herse cranks, brakes, fenders, front rack and pump will be present.  The wheel set is a fancy high tech HED Ardennes RA Black, which is supposed to give premier rim braking.  The drivetrain will be Dura Ace 7900 2x10, and I'll use an NOS Dura Ace metal seat post.  Whether I run 32, 35 or 38 tires remains to be seen and depends on whether I run it with fenders to start.  The handlebars will be Nitto Soba Noodles and I'll be using home-modified brakelevers.  Whether I run the front rack and fenders will influence whether I run a handlebar bag, but if I do, I'll make another copy of a home made decaleur that I've been running on two other bikes.  

So from 10,000 feet, I would rate the BUC index fairly low (Build Unconventionality Index).  There's nothing super weird about this build.  My homemade headset, decaleur and brakelevers are not off the shelf, but neither will they draw attention to themselves.  The biggest area of exploration will be the brakes.  Rene Herse Cantilever users claim they are the best thing out there.  It's my opinion as a mechanic that when you use fairly non-adjustable brakes, your best bet is to have a frame builder execute  the build with those brakes in mind, and that's what I've had Nobilette do.  Finally, I notice that in the miles of discourse about braking, everybody talks about setup, mechanical advantage, and brake pad compound (with a bizarre assumption that koolstop salmon is the only choice).  Nobody talks about rims.  The rim surface is at least as important as the brake pads.  I think people don't talk about it because they don't want to consider switching rims, because rims are too expensive to switch.  Everybody either says "my braking is sub-optimal, what am I missing?" or "my braking is awesome, but I can't explain why, or how you can get what I've got".  When I was a shop mechanic, I got a reputation for being a brake-guru.  Some of the local racers would only let me work on their brake systems.  Still, there's a ton I don't know.  I ponied up for a pretty expensive wheel set to see if truly premier rim-braking is something one can buy.  I genuinely don't know what the results will be, but it's one of the aspects I'm looking forward to.

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[George Schick]

Kinda reminds me way back in the day when Campy Record single-pivot SP brakes were considered to be the best of the best.  It was mainly just name dropping by people who wanted bikes with a high-end build - they had poor stopping power.  The people at Campagnolo countered that their brakes were intended for racers to "modulate speed," not necessarily to provide better braking.

[Bill Lindsay]

It's true that single pivot Campy brakes were not super powerful.  How many different sets of rims did you use them with?  When I settled on a favorite rim, I thought the braking was quite good.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[ian m]

Bill, I'm intrigued by your DIY parts mods. I imagine adapting the headset was relatively straightforward, but could you expand on the brake levers?

[George Schick]

Man, I had to dig deeply into the aging memory banks for that one.  I seem to recall that I had two sets of wheels I used for the bike that had the Record brakes. I believe that one set had Super Champion Arc-en-ciel (sp?) tubular rims and another may have had Rigida wired-on's - can't recall the model name.  But, as you said in a previous post, these weren't exactly made with the most optimal braking surface.

[Bill Lindsay]

Ian,  I really like the ergonomic shape of Campagnolo brifters, and I hate brifters.  Campy doesn't sell them as just brake levers, so I look for deals on brifters and gut them of their shifting bits and use them as just brake levers.  For this build I have a choice between two sets of gutted Campy Athena levers.  One used to be mechanical shifting, and the other used to be EPS electronic shifting.  I'm leaning towards using the EPS ones, for a couple minor reasons.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[CJ]

It's my understanding that the CPSC mandated some kind of secondary retention system, and Lawyer Lips eventually became the default. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I've seen a few other types from bikes built in the mid to late 80s. The best ones had little tabs attached to the axle that rotated up to engage screw heads or bosses on the inside of the fork blades. With those, you didn't have to mess with the skewer, and the QR operation was almost as quick as before. The worst had tabs attached to the skewers that engaged the rack/fender eyelets on the fork. Those required almost complete unthreading of the skewer before the wheel could be removed.

CJ

[Max S]

Sounds like a great idea, Bill!  I really like the idea of a lower BB, what with the fatter tires.

Any notes on how this will differ from the Ebisu All Purpose?

- Max

[Bill Lindsay]

Max

I don't know what you mean by "lower BB".  It's still a Rivendell Roadeo, and it has normal Rivendell Roadeo geometry.  It's not a custom.  The standard Roadeo geometry chart claims more BB drop in a 59cm than any of the other sizes, because that's Grant's size and that's the way he likes it.  Anyway, it'll be pretty similar to the Ebisu in that they are both road bikes with cantilever brakes.  The build on the Ebisu is cheaper and more knockabout, and the fenders never come off the Ebisu.  The dynamo lighting and front rack also never come off, and it currently has a basket.  I expect the Roadeo will remain my stripped down road bike.  If I had to sell one and live with the other, I would survive.  

BL in EC

[Bill Lindsay]

In my experience I got sensational braking out of Campy Record brakes with Galli aero rims.  They definitely had a different finish to other rims, and were probably the first I ever saw with a welded and smoothed seam.  They were great.  The right rims can have a strong influence on braking performance, IMO.

BL in EC

[Conway Bennett]

My next Riv will be a 57 or 59 Canti-Rom, or if they did a run of Canti Leo Roadinis I'd buy one.

[Bill Lindsay]

Small update for the Sisters: Rick picked up my frame from Riv this week for paint

Big update for the Sisters: I emailed Rick separately and he agreed to let me drop off my Rene Herse (Honjo) fenders to paint as well.  I'm beyond excited about that.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Ryan]

Excited to see the big reveal when it happens

[Sarah Carlson]

Paint and Custom fender color! You may be even outdoing your RivSisters this time! I am so looking forward to your reveal day! (And also you may have given at least some of us new ideas about where we can splash color on our bikes... I learned something today....)

[Tom T]

Hi Marty,

I recognized that bike,  that was sooo long ago, when I was in my ' purty bike projects' phase.  That was a second hand single speed (path racer) Rivendell didn't make many of those since few people asked for.  It used to be dark teal blue before I had my new paint scheme idea.

I ran it as a single/fixed around the hilly roads around the east bay but it got old after a while,  and my knees stated to protest in earnest. ;-)
It had one of my best efforts at shellacing bar tapes. For me, The Sogreni chainguard was its neatest touch  except it weighs a ton.

I wonder who has it now?

My stable has turned over a few times since then and no Rivendells left...;-( 

But I enjoyed every single one I ever had.

Tom T

SF Bay Area

On Tuesday, April 5, 2022 at 12:10:01 PM UTC-7 Marty Gierke, Stewartstown PA wrote:

I like the idea Bill, and wholeheartedly APPROVE! Are you thinking cantis, or v-brakes? Timing-wise the new Riv Vs might coincide with frame delivery. I'm guessing drop bars? Back in my distant past (and before Riv) I had canti bosses added to a Paramount I had custom built. That was a sweet bike (and one I never photographed...) so I get the attraction. Color-wise I lean in the direction of silver metallic (not grey) and have always liked the idea of a red head tube. I grabbed this pic years ago (someone here?) and it's still an inspiration. maybe add some red cable housing. 

Looking forward to following along. 

Marty

[george schick]

I once had the idea of doing something similar to what Bill is doing - sometime back in the 90's IIRC.  I contacted the folks at Waterford to see if I could get them to build me a Road Sport (similar to Riv's Roadeo) with canti's instead of SP brakes, the main reason being to make it easier to mount and remove fenders as conditions varied.  But they wouldn't do it.  They said if you want a frame with canti's buy an Adventure Cycle (similar to Riv's Atlantis).

On Thursday, December 7, 2023 at 1:21:06 PM UTC-6 Bill Lindsay wrote:

[Bill Lindsay]

Only the RivSisters are allowed to read this update:

Today, Rick emailed me about the cream accents he is painting on my color-matched aluminum fenders.  As far as I can tell, that is the last of the last details, which means New Frame Day may arrive before my 55th birthday on Thursday the 8th.  

I'll repeat, this info is only for the RivSisters.  Everyone else will get this information after I've seen the finished product and can share photos.  Only the RivSisters get this early preview spoiler: My new Nobilette built Canti-Roadeo is Pink.  The frame and fork are Pink with Cream headtube and accents.  The Nobilette stem is Pink.  The Honjo fenders are pink with cream "French tips". 

Don't tell anybody else.  They'll find out soon enough...  

:)

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Nikko in Oakland]

"Only the RivSisters get this early preview spoiler: My new Nobilette built Canti-Roadeo is Pink.  The frame and fork are Pink with Cream headtube and 

That's what I'm talkin' about Bill. I'm here for it. 

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

Died. I have died over here. Am dead, currently. 

PINK? Pink and CREAM?! I love pink - all shades of it. I just yield to it. And nothing goes better with pink than cream!!! Oh, I cannot wait to see your new bike!!! SUPER APPROVE!!!!

[lucky...@gmail.com]

I rarely pipe up but do qualify here and pink is one of my favorite colors. I can’t wait to see this one 

On Feb 2, 2024, at 13:35, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:

Died. I have died over here. Am dead, currently. 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/8b483ee9-8658-470c-9336-eeff1546f75an%40googlegroups.com.

[Doug H.]

I love Pink Floyd. Do I love pink bikes? Sure! Me thinks pink with black components would be slick. Can't wait until you can tell us RivBrothers about the color. ;)

Doug

[Edwin W]

This is going to be the single most anticipated bike on this list (a MASSIVE honor) in quite a while... 

Edwin

[Bill Lindsay]

"Died. I have died over here. Am dead, currently."

Homicide was the intent, so...

BL in EC

[Danny]

I’m also a fan of pink bicycles, great choice!

Roman’s Legolas and the Jonny Cycles Big Pink are two of my favorites. 

https://www.jonny-cycles.com/big-pink/

No doubt your custom will be added to my list of favorites. Looking forward to all the photos.

Danny

Madison WI

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/d3a03e65-f5f2-4859-aa9f-0fe978f2834dn%40googlegroups.com.

[Sally Bidleman]

JOY!

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/d3a03e65-f5f2-4859-aa9f-0fe978f2834dn%40googlegroups.com.

[Sarah Carlson]

This Riv Sister is sitting here with stars in her eyes imagining this bike! The update just made my morning. Waiting happily for the big reveal!