Altus!

[Patrick Moore]

High praise indeed!

https://bikesnobnyc.com/2022/02/09/the-smoothness-of-friction/#more-8766

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Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

[Johnny Alien]

Interesting that this came up. I have a brand new Altus that I have been debating about using on my upcoming build.  I was pushed into "yes do it" when I saw that Rivendell had put them on some Gus and Susie builds. If they put a $20 part on a $2000 frame then I should give it a shot.

[Jon Dukeman]

I have 3 Rivendell bikes with Altus r derailleur.

It handles the 9spd w/ 12-36 cassette with ease on my Platypus. It's my favorite derailleur. A derailleur before it's time with large jockey wheels.

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[Joe Bernard]

What's fascinating about that big pulley design decision - a bit of Shimano lore lost to history now - is they offered it at the low end and on the Dura-Ace 7703 long cage rear derailer. It never landed (back in those days) on any other higher end mech in the line and didn't survive to 10-speed D-A. I don't know the pulley situation now with modern Shimano, but for a very long time Altus was the best derailer you could get with this innovation. You had to NOT spend too much money! 

Joe Bernard

[lconley]

There was a new-in-box Dura-Ace 7700 GS on Ebay for big bucks, but I still lusted after it. There was also a beat-up used one for similar money. I did buy a Dura-Ace 7700 that was used but almost looks brand new for $51. These are also available for high dollars, not sure who buys them. 

I have, I think, 5 Altus RDs, four in silver and one in black.

Laing

[Patrick Moore]

Laing: If you ever think of selling that DA rd -- a very long shot, I know -- please let me know.

Thanks.

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[lconley]

What I bought for $51 was just the standard, non-oversized RD-7700. The picture was the $400+ including shipping from the Netherlands RD-7700 GS with oversized pulleys.

Laing

[Joe Bernard]

That's the one, I got the number wrong, I thought they tacked a 3 onto the end for the long cage model. Reality nice piece, I put one on my first Riv, a Romulus. Now my custom has a spiritual successor with its Garbaruk cage and pulleys on SRAM derailer. THAT'S some big pulleys! 

Joe Bernard

[Patrick Moore]

Aha, got it; thanks. 

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[lconley]

Shimano tacked the 03 onto the front derailleur number for the triple chainwheel version of the Dura Ace - FD-7703.

The funny thing about the RD-7700 GS big pulley version was that it would not shift any bigger rear gears than the regular version, both listed as 29T maximum, but it would allow a wider spaced front chainrings because it had greater chain wrap. 

Laing

[Joe Bernard]

You are correct about the cog maximum, I had forgotten this. My Romulus was already a 105 triple bike with (I think) a 12-25 cassette, all I did was swap derailers. Cuz Dura-Ace man! 🙌

Joe "derailer snob" Bernard

[velomann]

Whoa. I have a NOS DA long-cage with the big pulleys sitting in my parts box. It's way prettier than that Altus. I almost put it on my custom Bantam but went with my tried-and-true Ultegra. Almost put it on my Sam...Ultegra again. Now I'm thinking it might be time to put it on The Bay as an investment in the Roaduno fund. Cuz it's definitely not going on THAT bike ;-)

The local guy I bought it from years ago worked in a bike shop and he said the target clientele - I'm paraphrasing his words - was old white guys with the money to afford Dura-Ace but who wouldn't think of giving up their triple chain rings.

Mike M

[Patrick Moore]

Statutes require a photo. Post, please.

Patrick "brown-skinned metis" Moore, who prefers 1X + grannies and close-ratio cassettes, ruthlessly bottom-trimming in ABQ, NM.

[Joe Bernard]

Another (slightly hilarious) theory from Shimano was that the big pulleys masked how long the cage was, making it still look sorta short cage (it did not do this). The road bike market in the late '90s was a little conservative...

[Johnny Alien]

Speaking of big pulleys, what is this RD on this Gallop proto?

[Joe Bernard]

Shimano Nexave, RapidRise/high-normal. Grant has a stash of them and will put one on a complete build if you ask. It was a commuter/hybrid group offered with a 7-speed "MegaRange" freewheel in the late '90s. 

Joe Bernard

[Joe Bernard]

Which btw screws up my big pulley timeline a bit. I'd forgotten this mech had that feature, it had 
everything Shimano was trying to talk the public into at the time including the rollamijig thing for the cable routing. 

[Patrick Moore]

Pulleys not oversized, but at least the idler has no teeth.I used one of these long ago shimmed to fit a 1/8" chain for a 2-speed conversion. 

No I am not seriously recommending this, though you can still find them for sale. It shifted the cheap 1/" chain quite well between 16 and 18 to cogs.

[velomann]

"Statutes require a photo. Post, please."

Here you go.

DA 7700 with long-ish cage and big pulleys.

Second photo shows it in comparison to my favorite Ultegra derailleur.

Mike M

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks. Actually I hoped to see a photo of your Bantam, but you posted one I think.

On Fri, Feb 11, 2022 at 10:51 PM velomann <velo...@gmail.com> wrote:

"Statutes require a photo. Post, please."

Here you go.

DA 7700 with long-ish cage and big pulleys.

Second photo shows it in comparison to my favorite Ultegra derailleur.

Mike M

On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 7:13:12 PM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:

Statutes require a photo. Post, please.

Patrick "brown-skinned metis" Moore, who prefers 1X + grannies and close-ratio cassettes, ruthlessly bottom-trimming in ABQ, NM.

On Thu, Feb 10, 2022 at 8:03 PM velomann <velo...@gmail.com> wrote:

Whoa. I have a NOS DA long-cage with the big pulleys sitting in my parts box. It's way prettier than that Altus. I almost put it on my custom Bantam but went with my tried-and-true Ultegra. Almost put it on my Sam...Ultegra again. Now I'm thinking it might be time to put it on The Bay as an investment in the Roaduno fund. Cuz it's definitely not going on THAT bike ;-)

The local guy I bought it from years ago worked in a bike shop and he said the target clientele - I'm paraphrasing his words - was old white guys with the money to afford Dura-Ace but who wouldn't think of giving up their triple chain rings.

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[lconley]

Found one for considerably less money; still too much, but could not resist. Interesting that the top and bottom pulleys are both 13 tooth, but different shapes. I guess that is pretty standard these days. 

Laing

[velomann]

"Actually I hoped to see a photo of your Bantam,"

Which one?    ;-)

Here's links to a couple of my Flickr albums

650b disc tourer (replaced my broken Rambler) https://www.flickr.com/photos/8199310@N04/albums/72177720296641093

Bantam Adventure Bike: https://www.flickr.com/photos/8199310@N04/albums/72157713311957033

Mike M

[Patrick Moore]

Which one?    ;-)  I won't know until I see it!

Actually, I'd not seen these; I was thinking of another bike recently posted.

Very nice, both of them! I don't particularly care for front loading, but those are nice racks. OTOH, I am one who thinks that well-designed straight-leg forks look pretty; the one on my ex-~1990 DB had very slim, very tapered legs and with I hadn't stupidly gotten rid of it.

Thanks for sharing.

[velomann]

I'm seriously off-topic at this point (Altus derailleurs), but regarding the straight leg fork on the Bantam tourer, that was probably the detail I discussed with Bob K the most pre-build. If you follow his builds you know he's as good as they get at creating elegant looking curved forks with disc brake mounts, and is willing and capable of carving and modifying the mounts to fit the curve of the fork. But as Bob told me, with disc brakes that's all aesthetic. The forces disc brakes exert mean those curved forks have to be so overbuilt that there's little actual flex in that curve. The lightest (and equally functional) option for a steel disc brake fork is straight blades. And as I lean to function over form that's why I went with the straight blades. 

Also, this bike was designed for front loading. I've done both and the stability I get with a front load and large saddlebag on a low trail bike is the only way I'll travel now.

Mike M