In Praise of the Roadini

[Dave Grossman]

I bought a Roadini frameset a over a year ago and finally got around to building it up during the crisis.  As a father of small children, my time to ride outside of family rides and commuting is limited, so I was hesitant to put money into a road bike.  I couldn't be more glad that I did.

The bike is the most unaggressive-aggressive bike I have owned.  It has a terrific riding position (I have a 90 pbh and bought the 61 to be on a "bigger" bike and it was a good choice), and I feel like I am in the bike as opposed to feeling like a rock in a slingshot.  It does everything a road bike should do, and I don't get off feeling beaten by the road.  Anyhow, thanks to Grant for making a bike unlike any other bike brand today.  I'm proud to be a two Riv garage (I have a Hunq also).

Build:

Nitto Ui-12 31.8 Stem

Salsa Woodchipper Bars 46cm

Dura Ace 7400 Cranks (49/39)

Dura Ace 7700 Bar Ends

Sram 11-34 9 speed Cassette

Deore 9 RD

Sora FD

Mavic CXP 33s Laced To CK Classics

Schwalbe One 28s

Berthoud Saddle

I'll get a pic up soon.

[Lyman Labry]

Nice. Looking forward to photo!

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[Patrick Moore]

Dave: You are experiencing that almost ineffable Grant-design/Rivendell build bike feel that seems to be a unique quality of all Rivendell models. My own conceptualization of this "feel" is that the bikes are stable while riding straight, but transition into a turn with neither hesitation nor "flop". I've owned 5 Rivendell bikes, 3 customs and a first gen Sam Hill and a second gen (32s with fenders) Ram; all exhibited this quality -- tho' that Sam had a quality I didn't like: when twiddling up steep hills in low gears with weight way back, the front end was darty. Perhaps later Sams don't do this? I didn't find this so with the customs or the Ram.

Can you elaborate on what you mean by "feeling like a rock in a slingshot"? (That has to be the most vivid cycling metaphor I've heard in a long time.) I do indeed experience the feeling of being "in the bike" with all those Rivendells; another vivid and worth metaphor.

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Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

[Dave Grossman]

Patrick:  I would describe it simply as feeling less in control of the bike and more of the bike shooting me off.  The twitchiness depending on setup and wheelbase, long and low aerodynamic position, high saddle to bar drop, etc.  The position in the Roadini, the longer headtube, the angles, all make it much more comfortable ride.  I'm sure I'm sacrificing speed to some degree, but that is a non-issue as I'm not racing crits and I don't use Strava.  I just ride, lol.

On Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 10:41:03 AM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote:

Dave: You are experiencing that almost ineffable Grant-design/Rivendell build bike feel that seems to be a unique quality of all Rivendell models. My own conceptualization of this "feel" is that the bikes are stable while riding straight, but transition into a turn with neither hesitation nor "flop". I've owned 5 Rivendell bikes, 3 customs and a first gen Sam Hill and a second gen (32s with fenders) Ram; all exhibited this quality -- tho' that Sam had a quality I didn't like: when twiddling up steep hills in low gears with weight way back, the front end was darty. Perhaps later Sams don't do this? I didn't find this so with the customs or the Ram.

Can you elaborate on what you mean by "feeling like a rock in a slingshot"? (That has to be the most vivid cycling metaphor I've heard in a long time.) I do indeed experience the feeling of being "in the bike" with all those Rivendells; another vivid and worth metaphor.

On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 7:56 PM Dave Grossman <gma...@gmail.com> wrote:

I bought a Roadini frameset a over a year ago and finally got around to building it up during the crisis.  As a father of small children, my time to ride outside of family rides and commuting is limited, so I was hesitant to put money into a road bike.  I couldn't be more glad that I did.

The bike is the most unaggressive-aggressive bike I have owned.  It has a terrific riding position (I have a 90 pbh and bought the 61 to be on a "bigger" bike and it was a good choice), and I feel like I am in the bike as opposed to feeling like a rock in a slingshot.  It does everything a road bike should do, and I don't get off feeling beaten by the road.  Anyhow, thanks to Grant for making a bike unlike any other bike brand today.  I'm proud to be a two Riv garage (I have a Hunq also).

Build:

Nitto Ui-12 31.8 Stem

Salsa Woodchipper Bars 46cm

Dura Ace 7400 Cranks (49/39)

Dura Ace 7700 Bar Ends

Sram 11-34 9 speed Cassette

Deore 9 RD

Sora FD

Mavic CXP 33s Laced To CK Classics

Schwalbe One 28s

Berthoud Saddle

I'll get a pic up soon.

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[Patrick Moore]

I've very definitely felt "tippy" on some bikes; notably certain otherwise very nice mountain bikes (like my 1996, still-Santa-Cruz-made Bontrager Race lite) and a certain Fuji Royale road bike, to name the 2 that come immediately to mind and no, I didn't like that feeling either; the Rivs have all felt the opposite -- "secure". In fact, come to think of it, that Fuji only "came into its own" for handling when I put 20 lb in rear panners; odd.

IME, a frame that makes you feel "in" the bike is by no means necessarily slower, either in acceleration or in handling.

Anyway enjoy the new Roadini. And please do post a photo.

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[lambbo]

My experience of the Roadini is that it feels like you're on a rail, like a train car, it just brings you around all the curves and down the hills on a tight line, no wobbling around, with momentum.  It's incredible. 

[André P]

Totally agree that the Roadini is an awesome bike. I built mine up last summer but didn't put too much time on it because I still defaulted to mostly mixed terrain rides on my Hillborne. But, it's gotten a lot of mileage during social distancing cause it's way easier on the road to keep that 6 ft going. It really turns beautifully, very confidence inspiring even though it took a number of rides to get used to riding drops again and despite having a by road biking standards relaxed position it took some getting used to coming from an upright choco setup. Being able to have 35mm tires on a road bike is radical. Also for shorter pbh folks they get clearance for 42's on the 47cm frame. I think it's because the 47 uses the more standard riv fork crown that has wider spacing. There's tons of room in chainstays for a bigger tire from my eye on my 50 but it's limited up front at the fork.

https://www.instagram.com/p/B-tSibfhPsQ/

[Dave Grossman]

It is the social distancing bike of choice!  Less road traffic, other than drag racing morons, and no one to breathe upon me!

[Daniel D.]

That's what I told a lady espousing you're only supposed to walk for exercise not ride your bike. Besides explaining biking is allowed. I also shared my theory of biking being better...

People are bad at self distancing. I still see some congregated at crosswalks or entranceways etc. Because that's their usual habit. But they're not used to walking up to a bicyclist in the road :p

[Dave Grossman]

Finally had a moment to snap a pic!

[Robert Gardner]

Have to agree. I have a 2x1 roadini that it looks like the folks at Riv built up for fun (33 1/3 Jack Browns are nice!) — I added towel crust rack bars on it, front dynamo, rear swift zeitgeist (with Carradice rack for quick breakaway...) and I’ve been riding pretty much everything in and around DC pretty much every day since. Have done a few longer rides 50/60 mile rides and it is just as sweet heading to the store at the top of my street.

Stable, responsive, quick power transfer and...it’s just a gorgeous bike. 

Strong recommend. It’s my second Riv but I am riding it more than any other bike these days. 

Rg in DC  

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 13, 2020, at 8:02 PM, Dave Grossman <gma...@gmail.com> wrote:



It is the social distancing bike of choice!  Less road traffic, other than drag racing morons, and no one to breathe upon me!

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[Eric G@rs]

Your Roadini looks great, Robert. I recently finished building my girlfriend's 47cm Roadini and she loves it. She isn't a fan of drop bars so we opted for Wavie bars. I jacked up the saddle and road it a while as well. Kind of makes me want one for myself... 

[Matt Dreher]

I've harped a lot about my travails with my 61 Roadini on here and on iBOB, and having just sold it I may as well bring it up for the last time because I think it's important to know why you love something.

What makes the Roadini so special is the chainstay length, running from 45 to 46cm and rising 5mm every size. Mine didn't work out for me because I started wanting to take a very un-Rivendell fit with my bars about level with the saddle and a 100mm stem. That put my center of mass way further forward than it would otherwise, which I found had really adverse effects on my handling. Small position changes like avoiding potholes felt like they were two consecutive motions instead of one and I felt my rear reaching its limit of traction under hard cornering too easily. After I got a bike with 41.5 stays I realized that that's what was going on, I was taking a position that loaded up my front wheel more and took too much weight off the back than what Grant was designing for.

That's also what makes it so good for a position that puts your bars significantly higher than the saddle. If I were to try that upright Rivendell position on that 41.5-stay bike it would feel awful, far too light in the front because there's so much weight on the rear wheel. With the Roadini taking an upright position is fine because the geometry lets you maintain a neutral weight distribution and good handling.

I'm not sorry I owned it, it was a wonderful bike and it taught me a lot about how geometry can imply a certain fit. Glad you're all enjoying yours so much!

[Dave Grossman]

That's a great analysis Matt. I totally agree. It feels strange being on a road bike with bars up but it handles so well.

[Patrick Moore]

I'm not at all faulting your decision to sell your Roadini, but my 2 most recent Road customs have 45 mm stays and define my idea of impeccable handling with bar 3-4 cm below saddle, tho' on 8 cm stems. Dodging potholes is easy! 73* sta, tho' saddle pretty far back on rails.

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[Andrew Erman]

I love the way your bike looks!  I have a grilvered colored Roadini with Albastache bars.  My bike a joy to ride with the more upright positioning compared to the drops I used to have.  May your girlfriend have much joy in riding this beauty.  Great color.

Andy

On Apr 21, 2020, at 3:54 PM, Eric G@rs <eric...@gmail.com> wrote:

Your Roadini looks great, Robert. I recently finished building my girlfriend's 47cm Roadini and she loves it. She isn't a fan of drop bars so we opted for Wavie bars. I jacked up the saddle and road it a while as well. Kind of makes me want one for myself... 

<IMG_1078.jpeg>

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<IMG_1078.jpeg><IMG_1078.jpeg>

[Mark Roland]

Grant did not pioneer chainstay lengths in the 44-46cm range. I currently have 3 vintage road bicycles, designed to have drop bars positioned below the saddle height. Chainstays are 45cm. (I've owned road bikes with 46cm chainstays as well, 57-60cm seat tubes). Handling on my bicycles is excellent. This chainstay range is not atypical for both racing and "sport" bicycles from the 1950s-80s. To imply that the Roadini is not suitable for a lower bar position simply because it did not work for you, not sure that is a valid conclusion. (Obviously can't get a "super racer" drop, as the upslope frame is designed to accommodate higher bar positions--but does not preclude lower up to a point, and depending on how one sizes the frame initially.)

On Wednesday, April 22, 2020 at 12:47:02 PM UTC-4, Patrick Moore wrote:

I'm not at all faulting your decision to sell your Roadini, but my 2 most recent Road customs have 45 mm stays and define my idea of impeccable handling with bar 3-4 cm below saddle, tho' on 8 cm stems. Dodging potholes is easy! 73* sta, tho' saddle pretty far back on rails.

On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 7:44 PM Matt Dreher <99m...@gmail.com> wrote:

I've harped a lot about my travails with my 61 Roadini on here and on iBOB, and having just sold it I may as well bring it up for the last time because I think it's important to know why you love something.

What makes the Roadini so special is the chainstay length, running from 45 to 46cm and rising 5mm every size. Mine didn't work out for me because I started wanting to take a very un-Rivendell fit with my bars about level with the saddle and a 100mm stem. That put my center of mass way further forward than it would otherwise, which I found had really adverse effects on my handling. Small position changes like avoiding potholes felt like they were two consecutive motions instead of one and I felt my rear reaching its limit of traction under hard cornering too easily. After I got a bike with 41.5 stays I realized that that's what was going on, I was taking a position that loaded up my front wheel more and took too much weight off the back than what Grant was designing for.

That's also what makes it so good for a position that puts your bars significantly higher than the saddle. If I were to try that upright Rivendell position on that 41.5-stay bike it would feel awful, far too light in the front because there's so much weight on the rear wheel. With the Roadini taking an upright position is fine because the geometry lets you maintain a neutral weight distribution and good handling.

I'm not sorry I owned it, it was a wonderful bike and it taught me a lot about how geometry can imply a certain fit. Glad you're all enjoying yours so much!

On Friday, April 10, 2020 at 8:56:29 PM UTC-5, Dave Grossman wrote:

I bought a Roadini frameset a over a year ago and finally got around to building it up during the crisis.  As a father of small children, my time to ride outside of family rides and commuting is limited, so I was hesitant to put money into a road bike.  I couldn't be more glad that I did.

The bike is the most unaggressive-aggressive bike I have owned.  It has a terrific riding position (I have a 90 pbh and bought the 61 to be on a "bigger" bike and it was a good choice), and I feel like I am in the bike as opposed to feeling like a rock in a slingshot.  It does everything a road bike should do, and I don't get off feeling beaten by the road.  Anyhow, thanks to Grant for making a bike unlike any other bike brand today.  I'm proud to be a two Riv garage (I have a Hunq also).

Build:

Nitto Ui-12 31.8 Stem

Salsa Woodchipper Bars 46cm

Dura Ace 7400 Cranks (49/39)

Dura Ace 7700 Bar Ends

Sram 11-34 9 speed Cassette

Deore 9 RD

Sora FD

Mavic CXP 33s Laced To CK Classics

Schwalbe One 28s

Berthoud Saddle

I'll get a pic up soon.

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[Patrick Moore]

My 1973 Motobecane Grand Record had chainstays 44.5 cm long to the center of the long dropouts, identical in length to those of my later 2 Riv Road customs.

[Eric Norris]

42 cm for my Richard Sachs custom (Richard is known for longer-than-usual chain stays on a traditional “road” bike) and 43cm for one of my Alex Singers. 1976 Centurion Pro Tour, built as a “touring” bike in time for the “Bikecentennial,” has 44 cm stays. 

They all ride nice, but of course each has a unique feel. 

And yes, I still enjoy riding Patrick’s former Motobecane, which has been part of my regular rotation for several years now. 

I should note that both the Singer and Motobecane are built with Reynolds 531, which is a truly marvelous tubeset that builds into lively, fun bikes, regardless of the geometry.

--Eric Norris
campyo...@me.com
www.campyonly.com
campyonlyguy.blogspot.com

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[Bruce Smitham]

I just pre-ordered a 54cm Orange Roadini from Rivendell. I've had only 1 bike for the last 3 years (Salsa Fargo Ti with Jones bars and Schwalbe G-One 27.5 x 2.8 tires) 1 x 11 XT drivetrain and dropper post. I can ride it all day long in any terrain and love it. So this is a big deal for me. I looked at the Crust Bombora and BMC Road+ but ultimately decided on a Riv. Feels good and looking forward to building it up when it arrives.

Bruce in San Diego

[Mark Roland]

Good choice! A Roadini will be the perfect compliment to the Fargo. Some summer anticipation!

[ANDREW ERMAN]

I hope you love yours as much as I do mine.  Superb ride.  Comfortable. 

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[Jeff B]

I didn't think this warranted a whole new post so here is more Roadini praise. I was going to use my Roadini on a 3 day ride in Colorado but in the weeks leading up to the ride I got a huge glass cut right on the tread of my 32mm GravelKings and decided to sell my cranks to fund a purchase or Rene Herse cranks. Unfortunately my LBS/side job was out of 32mm GravelKings but had 38mm and Rene Here was out of stock in 46/30 rings but did't mention that on the site. Wanting to stay with Panaracer tires so I would use them post trip, I put the 38's on and swapped on a 1x11 drivetrain to get me through the ride. Luckily my 1st gen Roadini fit the tires perfectly and I knew the drivetrain would word anyway but the bike rode great and did not disappoint. This bike is awesomely versatile and keeps giving.

[Scott Calhoun]

IME, my most confidence inspiring bikes on fast downhills have all had longish chainstays (43-45cm) same as the Roadinis. I've not ridden a Roadini, but my Ram had that great confidence inspiring handling around curves. My Quickbeam is similar. 

Roadini Curious in Tucson

[Patrick Moore]

All the 5 different Rivendells I've ridden (3 road customs, 42.5 and 45 cm stays, early Sam Hill, and 2nd gen Ram) exhibited what I think is a Grantian quality, unerring stability without sluggish turn-in, though for me, the first custom was a bit too quick to transition from straight to turn with the skinniest tires (ie, it was a wee bit twitchy, tho' this with very light, very short 559 X 22mm 24" wheels; with 32s it was almost perfect); the Sam had *too much* "corners on rails" feeling -- harder to adjust line mid-turn; and the Ram felt a bit sedate after the quicker customs, which are my benchmarks for road bike handling. 

There are all sorts of other bikes that are pleasant to ride, but this quality of stability with "natural" turn-in seems to mark most if not all of Grant's designs. Note that you can have too much of the "corners as if on rails" quality, but Grant's best designs seem to have a perfect balance of stability and quickness. And I realize that taste plays a huge role in what one finds acceptable and superlative.

On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 12:08 PM Scott Calhoun <sc...@zonagardens.com> wrote:

IME, my most confidence inspiring bikes on fast downhills have all had longish chainstays (43-45cm) same as the Roadinis. I've not ridden a Roadini, but my Ram had that great confidence inspiring handling around curves. My Quickbeam is similar. 

Roadini Curious in Tucson

On Sunday, April 12, 2020 at 5:22:36 PM UTC-7 lambbo wrote:

My experience of the Roadini is that it feels like you're on a rail, like a train car, it just brings you around all the curves and down the hills on a tight line, no wobbling around, with momentum.  It's incredible. 

 

[Dave Grossman]

Since I started the thread, I'll chime in!

I recently acquired a San Marcos and have been debating selling the Roadini.  The San Marcos has a bit more clearance and the 59cm is slightly better fit for me than the 61 Roadini (I needed a 59 Roadini!).  That being said, it is such a great bike and deserves praise.  I am running the same tires on my San Marcos as Jeff in the picture and I hadn't even figured it would fit on my frame.  I'm sure the Tektro 539's might be a limiting factor, but I am curious to try now.

[Jeff B]

I had trouble loading more photos earlier but figured I'd add some more. The Roadini really is great bike that I can't see myself parting with, I do however want to try a 57 or maybe even a 61. I think I'm at the top of the 54 sizing, don't let the tiny stem fool you, I just put it on to play around with fit. I've ridden it a lot with a 90mm stem as well.

[Jeff B]

Seems I can only post 1 at a time in this thread. Must have been something with the google change,

[Paul G]

And wheel/tire weight can make a difference on steering feel too. When I ride my Roadeo unloaded on spirited road rides, I like the more lively turn-in of lightweight 32mm Soma Supple Vitesse tires (250 grams). They allow precise steering adjustment mid-corner due to less gyroscopic force in the wheels. When urban commuting with a rear saddlebag load up to 10 lbs, I like Jack Brown Greens which add 100 grams of tire weight per wheel. The added stability counters the weight shift to the rear from the saddle bag (less stable) and makes for a more relaxed, gentle handling which I like when commuting. 

On Monday, January 4, 2021 at 12:05:20 PM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:

All the 5 different Rivendells I've ridden (3 road customs, 42.5 and 45 cm stays, early Sam Hill, and 2nd gen Ram) exhibited what I think is a Grantian quality, unerring stability without sluggish turn-in, though for me, the first custom was a bit too quick to transition from straight to turn with the skinniest tires (ie, it was a wee bit twitchy, tho' this with very light, very short 559 X 22mm 24" wheels; with 32s it was almost perfect); the Sam had *too much* "corners on rails" feeling -- harder to adjust line mid-turn; and the Ram felt a bit sedate after the quicker customs, which are my benchmarks for road bike handling. 

There are all sorts of other bikes that are pleasant to ride, but this quality of stability with "natural" turn-in seems to mark most if not all of Grant's designs. Note that you can have too much of the "corners as if on rails" quality, but Grant's best designs seem to have a perfect balance of stability and quickness. And I realize that taste plays a huge role in what one finds acceptable and superlative.

[Damien]

This conversation is truly making me realize what a fool I was for selling my Roadini. 

[Austin Plocher]

I'm in the process of building up my first Riv, a silver Roadini, and this thread has me mighty excited. Thanks all,

[zem...@gmail.com]

Austin, let us know how the bike turned out!

I'm always on the edge of buying this frame when Riv brings them out. Each new positive review brings me a little closer :)

Zack 

Toronto/DC

[Bones]

Here's one more then. Nice freezing cold evening ride.

Bones

[Andrew Erman]

Love the picture and the setup.  I have a similar setup but no view as pretty.

On Jan 24, 2021, at 2:56 PM, Bones <ekstr...@gmail.com> wrote:

Here's one more then. Nice freezing cold evening ride.<roadini.jpg>

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<roadini.jpg>

[Paul G]

Interesting how low the seat tube bottle cage mount is. 

[Austin Plocher]

So happy with the Dini so far, rides like a dream. It's freezing out which has precluded some longer rides but every mile on it so far has been great. A friend described brifters with cork bar-ends as "chaotic energy", but it's my kind of chaos. Loving all the color symmetry it's got.

[Mike Packard]

Here's one on a foggy forest path with a cool tree I found.

Discovered that previously used Newbaums still sticks well and arguably has an even better texture (bumpier) than new.

Mike

Austin TX

[Damien]

Some photos of my dearly departed Roadini back in spring/summer 2019, when it had nasty filthy white hoods. From a stroller mission with my then-small (now-huge) daughter. She used to do this thing where she would wrestle my bikes, but I think she's grown out of that now. Well, I hope she has.

[Patrick Moore]

Thank heaven for little girls! If these photos were taken in early/mid 2019, your daughter can't have gotten really huge. But the photos remind me of my daughter when she was very small, perhaps a few months older than yours, and I'd just moved into my present house, 1/4 mile away from grocery store, 1 mile away from major N/S paved bicycle path connecting to many other such paths. My prime mover was an early Raleigh Technium sports tourer with long stays, flexy skinny aluminum tubes glued into crude, square-cut steel lugs, shod with what were, at the time (2003-4) fat, soft 32 mm Vittoria 700C tires; a real Cadillac ride. I'd pull her in the doublewide child trailer most Saturday mornings, do some shopping, buy her a fistful of helium balloons, then head to the bike path. 

Now Catie is 5' 7" and a sophomore in her first apartment off campus, and just bought a $200 skateboard for commuting.

PS: the bike is cute, too.

On Wed, Jan 27, 2021 at 8:46 AM Damien <damien....@gmail.com> wrote:

Some photos of my dearly departed Roadini back in spring/summer 2019, when it had nasty filthy white hoods. From a stroller mission with my then-small (now-huge) daughter. She used to do this thing where she would wrestle my bikes, but I think she's grown out of that now. Well, I hope she has.

 

--

[r.d.o...@gmail.com]

I can confirm that your Roadini is in good hands Damien ;) I have put a few hundred miles on her and absolutely love the ride and the fit. I've been pulling her onto some hard pack singletrack right along our bike trail system here in ole ABQ and she's holding her own.  No real updates to the build other than swapping out the tires for Jack Brown Blues (was getting sick of the goatheads cutting my rides short...) All my pics are FROM the bike, need to take some glory shots out in the desert

-Ryan

[Damien]

Ryan - YES! That truly makes me feel better about the decision to part with it, difficult as it may have been! Please post some pics - so happy it's now being really used and loved. Maybe I'll get another Roadini at some point to fill the void. Who knows? I have too many bikes according to my wife, but that hasn't stopped me yet :)

Patrick - she just turned 3 a few days ago, so to me she's huge (well, maybe it's just her 3-year-old attitude that's huge) and growing up far too fast. Can't even fathom her going off to college, but luckily I have time. She really loves longer rides in the Burley, but only if we have a stuffy strapped in the seat beside her, lots of snacks, and we let her collect sticks and rocks and snails along the way (???). Oddly enough we just bought her her first real skateboard for her birthday, sooooo....maybe our "little" ones are more alike than we thought?