New ROADEO

[Jock Dewey]

Hey, Y'all:

Pic of new Nobilette ROADEO on the site, with RH crankset and RH tires. So there ya go!

All good, right?

Jock Dewey / Athens, GA

[Clayton.sf]

Love the tires. Not a fan of the cranks at all.

Clayton Scott

SF, CA

[Eamon Nordquist]

That bike is the business. Love it with the Rene Herse tires and crank. Only thing I’d add if it was mine is a dynohub. I can’t afford any bike right now, but that’s a good price for a Mark Nobilette made bike.

Eamon
Seattle

[Bill Lindsay]

When I got my Nobilette Legolas, I asked myself "why don't they have Nobi build the Roadeo also?"  I don't think Waterford has historically treated Rivendell all that well, and I try to avoid Waterford Rivendells for that reason, purely spite.  I'll seriously think about upgrading my Waterford Roadeo to a Nobilette Roadeo.  Let me know if you are dying for a 59.  I'd pay $1000 for the karma upgrade, so $1800 shipped for my Waterford Roadeo frame fork and chris king headset. 

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

On Thursday, January 9, 2020 at 4:04:03 PM UTC-8, Jock Dewey wrote:

[Brian Campbell]

I have a Waterford AHH and A Nobilette Legolas. The Legolas simply fantastic.

[John G.]

Is this a sign that I should sell my 61 cm Roadeo so that I can get a 63 cm Roadeo? Or is it a sign that I need TWO Roadeos?

Also: Bombadils are still an option? Anyone know what a Bomba costs? I have all the parts I’d need to build one up...

[Garth]

This reminds of sports broadcasters on the radio who get so caught up in the action that they forget the medium they are working with and proceed as if it's TV and everyone is visually seeing it as they are  ...oops ... there are no pictures on radio !

A direct link of said pic would be greatly helpful .

[jtallman]

Garth,

From an email received 1-9-20

[Joe Bernard]

Bombadil and Wilbury/Glorius are whatever the custom price is now.

[Don Compton]

I have a 59cm Roadeo ( 3+ years old ) and I noticed in the picture of the new Roadeo that the conection of the seat lug and the seat stay looks different. Just an observation.

On Thursday, January 9, 2020 at 4:04:03 PM UTC-8, Jock Dewey wrote:

[Jock Dewey]

Indeed. That configuration is the latest RIV design. Not my cup o' tea, but certainly rock solid!

Jock Dewey / Athens, GA

[Scott Calhoun]

I don’t like the price of the RH crankset, but if you want an 11 speed compatibility, 177mm arms, a very narrow Q factor in a subcompact double (I’ve run 30/46 and 32/48), there are no other options that I know of. IMO the RH style looks perfect for a Roadeo. If you can live with 170, 175 cranks with a slightly wider Q factor, there are other choices.

[Scott Calhoun]

Yes please, link to the photo! I can’t seem to find the photo on Rivs site.

[Will @ Riv]

That's actually a Waterford Roadeo pictured in the email, we don't have a Nobilette one yet. Regarding the seatlug, you can pick, either socketed or traditional. The default is traditional.

-will

[MoVelo]

Bill

I bought my Legolas second hand so not sure if it is Waterford or Nobliette. How can I tell the difference?

thanks

James Poulson

[Bill Lindsay]

I have don't know for sure how you would tell the difference between a Nobilette and a Waterford Legolas.  I know some Waterford bikes have "Waterford" cast into the rear dropouts, but I don't think it's all of them.  I think the serial number may give a clue.  

Bill

[Mike Godwin]

I may have to claw it back. But then you could get a 62 Roadeo

Mike SLO CA

On Friday, January 10, 2020 at 4:06:50 AM UTC-8, John G. wrote:

[Garth]

I see , thank you !

Apparently the email arrive in their own time.

The Rodeo looks just like a Rodeo .... ;-)

-----

As to the bit about the "secret menu",  I always considered any mainstream production model Riv made as available as a custom, as it's not as if the know-how is lost, forgotten or forbidden  .  Just ask !  Since it's a custom that also means if there was some detail that wasn't on the original that you'd wish it had, and it was "in line" with the Riv sensibilities, it's likely a yeah. Pretty great !

I love my parallel TT  Bombadil . I've not ridden since the last warm spell a few weeks ago so I went for a jaunt between the rain bands around the driveway and then up and down a few streets to stretch my legs, so to speak, and it was Grand !   All this talk about long chainstays and wheelbases reminded me how at the time it was longest production frame in both that Riv had ever made.

[tc]

Bill, since you've put mileage on both a Rodeo and Roadini, what significant differences in handling, comfort, and feel would you list?

Thanks,

Tom

On Thursday, January 9, 2020 at 10:20:46 PM UTC-5, Bill Lindsay wrote:

[Bill Lindsay]

They are very different bikes and both excellent.  The Roadeo is a very traditional, conventional, but mature road racing bike.  I have no doubt in my mind that if we had a time machine and swapped Greg Lemond's Della Santa with a Roadeo, he would have have won the same races.  If we gave Miguel Indurain a 21 pound Roadeo to replace his 24 pound Banesto bike, he would have still won the tour de France several times.  The Roadeo is a race bike.  If you want a race bike and do the fun kind of riding that people do on a race bike, it's a spectacular bike for that.  Traditional, conventional, optimized, stunningly beautiful, masterfully crafted RACE BIKE.  

The Leo Roadini is an evolved road bike.  If your approach to road riding is more relaxed than a real race bike kind of approach, you might prefer it.  The bars will be higher.  I ran my bars slammed and they were still high.  It feels less racy, it is more comforable.  I felt I was in a sofa it was so easy and leisurely, and for me the surprise was it was objectively faster.  Faster or not, more comfortable or not, it did not feel like I was racing.  People who want their road bike to feel like they are racing might be turned off to it.  Defintiely people who want a traditional, conventional race bike look are pretty consistently turned off by the Roadini.  

If you need you bike to feel like a race bike, you will likely prefer the Roadeo.  If you need your bike to look like a race bike, you almost certainly will prefer the Roadeo.  If your strength and flexibility demand that you get the bars low, your will definitely prefer the Roadeo.  

If you are looking for a more evolved and dignified 'just ride' approach to paved riding that costs ~$1800 less and may be measurably faster for you, then the Leo is a good option.  

Why do I have a Roadeo when the Leo was so good?  I want a race bike in my stable.  I actually have three race bikes in my stable.  The Roadeo is a race bike.  The Legolas is a race bike.  My hard tail mountain bike is a race bike.  I use them for rides that are fun to do on a race bike.  The race bike slots in my stable are far more "toy" slots than "tool" slots.  I own them because they are fun to own, and fun to ride.  If I moved to a one-bike living situation, all my race bikes would be out the door. That's a fact.  I'd likely keep a brevet bike that can do errands, commuting, road rides, touring, and light trail stuff.   That may be my current Sam Hillborne, or it could be my actual brevet bike, a Norther Lyon.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[tc]

Thanks, Bill.  So, what you're saying is ... the Rodeo is .... a race bike?  Point driven home!

Kidding aside, a couple of your points popped out to me, applying to any type of bike and riding:

- Actual and perceived speeds are likely significantly different.  Geometry, and tires, fool riders.  

- Toys are nice to have!  No justification needed.

Tom, who is selling his Roadini (not to get a Roadeo)

[Joe Bernard]

Yeah, but is it a race bike? 😁

[ted]

Thanks Bill. Could you also expound on how the black mountain road (not plus) relates to the Roadini and Roadeo?

[Bill Lindsay]

I'd call the Black Mountain a low cost Roadeo.  Fits similar.  Rides similar.  It's nowhere near as beautiful, and well crafted aesthetically, but I consider it functionally equivalent.  Having one of each in my collection (which I do) only "makes sense" if I'm going to keep them at different locations (which I do).  My Black Mountain Road lives at my mom's house.  I can grab it off the hook and rip off a 20 - 120 mile ride and it's like an old friend.  The Black Mountain Road is different from the Leo in exactly the ways the Roadeo is different from the Leo.  

Another way to represent the difference in attitude that I've used before and that a couple listers found useful is this:  On the Roadeo and on the Black Mountain Road, I feel a little bit weird if I'm not wearing racing kit.  On the Leo, I felt a little bit weird if I was wearing racing kit.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[ted]

Bill,

Thanks for sharing your impressions. Somehow I had gotten the idea RBW intended the Roadini to be less expensive but functionally equivalent to the Roadeo (similar to the previous Hillborne Hillson pair where GP has written if he closes his eyes he cant tell which he is riding). I was surprised when I read how different you found the Roadini and Roadeo to be, and it left me wondering if the Black Mountain was functionally more like one or the other or maybe someplace in between.

again, thanks for the info

ted

[Mike Godwin]

I tend to agree with Mr Lindsay. Having both, but keeping one, the ride is very similar between the BMC Road and Roadeo. And agree, aesthetics and build quality differ, but the BMC Road for a tig welded bike looks pretty nice. I retained the 62 cm BMC, the 61 cm Roadeo went to Mr "can you help me with my fender line" Guild. The BMC Road planes for me, the Roadeo is more comfortable on a longer ride. Same build bits on both all around except for stems and bars (threadless stem and dream bars v conventional and noodles).  

Mike SLO CA 

[Lesli Larson]

I'm loving the new ROADEO. I've been on the hunt for a go fast, but still steel roadbike that would serve as an alternate for my heavy duty rando bike. The Roadeo, especially one built by Nobilette, might just be the ticket. One issue: I have a PB height of 75 so I'm right at the margin of not fitting the smallest frame size (I'm 5'2 and typically ride Rivs in the 50cm range). I'm tempted to try anyway since I'm used to riding bikes with zero standover clearance (it's like mounting and riding a large horse). Does anyone remember whether there was ever smaller sizes for this model? Part of me wonders if I should opt for the custom option so I could get something a little more petite (with same specs). 

Also, if anyone knows of a used ROADEO or RIV road in a pint size (48-50) on the market, let me know!

Best,

Lesli Larson

Eugene, Oregon

[RichS]

Lesli:

A couple of non-Roadeo pint size alternatives for you:

- The Roadini comes in 47 and 50cm sizes. Check with Riv's dealers to see if they have your size. Possibly Riv has one hidden away in storage. There has been speculation about whether or not Roadinis will stay in production. I put this question to Spencer at Riv a couple of months back and he said a shipment is expected March/April.

- A Homer Hilsen comes in a 47.5cm size. Right in your wheelhouse. I have a new MIT Homer and a Sam Hillborne and I will say the Homer rides lighter and feels more roadish (to be sure not Roadeo like) than the Sam. For comparison, I might call the Sam a heavy duty rando bike since the tubing is a bit more stout than Homer's.

- Smallest published size for the Roadeo is 51cm

Best of luck with your search!

Rich in ATL

[Lesli Larson]

Rich,

Thank you for the notes and prompts. It's always a bit of an easter egg hunt to find the right and still available Riv frames (via dealers and email inquiries). I'm thinking the 47cm or 50cm Roadini might be the ticket (raising an internal subdebate about whether I would prefer 650b or 700c on this bike).

Side note: I saw a really nice Atlantis build at the Rivelo shop in PDX. 56 cm with 650b wheels. It would be a great bike for the right person. 

I appreciate the notes on the Hilsen as well.

Best,

LL

[Shoji Takahashi]

Hi LL:

For small sizes that you're seeking, I'd recommend a call to Riv. There's sometimes a hidden treasure in the warehouse of frame sizes at the extremes. I'm sure they'd like to sell them, if they have them.

Good luck!

shoji

[John G.]

Fender line is much better now, thank you very much! Just needed an extra 5mm spacer. 

Adding to Bill's and Mike's thoughtful description. At no point did Bill ever say the Roadeo was uncomfortable, but for some folks, the term "race bike" might connote uncomfortable and aggressive geometry. Personally, I've found the Roadeo to be an extremely comfortable brevet/century bike, both physically and mentally. It just sorta handles itself after a while. I sometimes prefer standard diameter tubing, but I do think the (very light) OS tubing on the Roadeo contributes to its reliable but lively handling. I know I often get hung up on wall thickness and tubing, but I really think geometry and fit make more of a difference than standard vs OS tubing.

And yeah, it's fast. Am I faster on my Roadeo than I was on my Black Mountain? Maybe a bit, but not so much faster than I get home in time to kill an extra 20 minutes browsing iBob.

If I ever move this Roadeo on, it will be because I have a similarly-purposed Weigle that fits just a smidge better. But I also believe you can never have too many road bikes that fit 32mm tires.

[Scott Calhoun]

Bill, I think this is a smart way to explain the differences between the bikes: "On the Roadeo and on the Black Mountain Road, I feel a little bit weird if I'm not wearing racing kit.  On the Leo, I felt a little bit weird if I was wearing racing kit." For me, another way of thinking about bicycle differences would be to ask, "would I run flats or clipless on this bike?" That might also determine if I'd wear a racing kit or not on that bike.

Last winter, I did a big 80 mile dirt road loop in southeastern Arizona with a group that included Ultraromance (I don't want to start an Ultraromance debate here--he was always been friendly and open with me). He was riding a pretty 61cm blue Roadini with a mix of old and new components with cream colored 38mm tires stuffed in. I was on my Ritchey Ascent with 650b x 48mm tires. I rode the most technical part of a big long descent right by him and I was impressed with how fast and confidently he road it on dirt. I know this is mostly due to the rider, but I suspect the long chainstays helped too. Based on chainstay length (also not trying to start a fight about that here) I would guess the Roadini would have a slight advantage among these three if you were going to do more or your riding on dirt roads than pavement. 

Bike insights has geometries for the Roadeo, Roadini, and BMC road on their site and using the "Bike on Bike" comparison, the 63cm Roadeo and 61cm Roadini are very similar. The only sizable differences look to be stack height and chainstay length: https://bikeinsights.com/compare?geometries[]=5bb29e327581960016665a33&geometries[]=5b8578f548f3a30004789b19&builds[]=&builds[]=

When you compare the  63cm Roadeo and 62cm BMC road, they are really similar, but the BMC road has a bit less trail, and a bit longer reach, and less stack. Bike insights categorizes the BMC as "Somewhat aggressive" and the Roadeo and Roadini as "Somewhat upright." Bill's first-hand observations, which I'd trust more than the numbers based Bike Insights, are interesting because just looking at the numbers, the Roadini and Roadeo would seem more similar to each other than the BMC. https://bikeinsights.com/compare?geometries[]=5a1e64fe62315c00144448d7&geometries[]=5b8578f548f3a30004789b19&builds[]=&builds[]=

As some of you might have seen, I posted at WTB for a 63cm Roadeo a few weeks back. I had a couple of responses, and I let one in the Bay area slip away whilst I dithered. Part of my hesitation was that a 62cm BMC road is such as bargain and is pretty similar, minus the fancy lugs, and MUSA heritage. I like lugs fine, but I nice fillets and even clean TIG work, so I've also thought about having another US builder make me a medium reach brake road frame along the lines of the Roadeo, but minus the lugs. Nobilette was one of the builders I was looking at after listening to a podcast interview with him over the holidays where he said that things were slow and he was looking for more work. It looks like the good folks at Rivendell heard this as well and stepped in. So now, if I'm ordering fancy new semi-custom, it might make more sense just to get a Roadeo as I'd be able to support both Rivendell and Nobilette with the purchase. It really just all comes down to budget, at 4.5x the cost of the BMC Road, the Roadeo is definitely more of a stretch to afford.  

Scott

[Scott Calhoun]

Mike,

That is pretty high praise for the BMC road frame seeing that you could buy 4.66 new BMC road frames for the price of one Roadeo. I know, MUSA, Rivendell lugs, Mark Nobilette, all add to the gloriousness of the Roadeo, but...

Scott "who wanted buy Mike's 62cm BMC road before he changed his mind about selling it" Calhoun

[Bill Lindsay]

I own a 59 Black Mtn Road, a 59 Roadeo, and I used to own a 57 Leo.  Some 5'10" folks would have chosen a 54cm Leo.  The 57 Leo was a much larger bike than the 59 Roadeo or the 59 Black Mtn.  That site doesn't have my rendition of the Black Mtn so I used the 58.  The 58 Black Mtn and the 59 Roadeo are very close to the same bike (fit wise).  The difference is Seat Tube Angle with which I am very familiar.  I run my saddle about 1cm farther forward on the rails on the Roadeo because the STA is more laid back.  They both fit like a glove and fit the same.  The Leo is a lot different with a huge stack, which I described above. 

BL in EC

[John W]

I know this is veering off topic, but Bill, where would you put the BMC Monster Cross rim brake within those comparisons?

[Bill Lindsay]

John W,  

It really depends on what you are asking.  Where I put a bike in my stable is exactly where I decide to put it.  I put the Black Mtn Monster Cross in the "monster cross" slot of my stable.  That's where I'd put it.  Is that what you are asking?

If that isn't what you are asking, then here are a bunch of other questions that may be closer to what you are after:

On a scale of 1 to 10, how good is each of those four bikes at being a rim-brake-monster-cross bike?  

Black Mountain Monster Cross: 9+

Black Mountain Road: 2

Leo Roadini: 3

Roadeo: 2

On a scale of 1 to 10, how good is each of those four bikes at being a road racing bike?  

Black Mountain Monster Cross: 5

Black Mountain Road: 8

Leo Roadini: 6

Roadeo: 9

On a scale of 1 to 10, how good is each of those four bikes at being an all-rounder?  

Black Mountain Monster Cross: 8

Black Mountain Road: 4

Leo Roadini: 5

Roadeo: 4

Those three road bikes would make lousy off-road bikes for me.  If the Roadeo was my only bike, I would not use it as a mountain bike.  I'd mainly limit my riding to things you can use a road racing bike for.  

If my Black Mountain Monster Cross was my only bike, it would serve as a good platform for a lot of different kinds of builds.  I'd tune my build for the things I wanted to do.  I'd retain tire selection as the main way to change the bike's personality from ride to ride.  I'd have no qualms about running Barlow Pass Extralights (700x38) on it for it's raciest configuration.  

Bill stable-boy Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Scott Calhoun]

Bill's BMC Monstercross really excels at being a Monstercross bike. I got a good chuckle out of his 9+ rating for it. 

Scott

[Austin B.]

So I own both a Roadeo and a BMC Monstercross amongst others. Road racing is not something I've ever done nor will ever do, so my comments below do not apply to that category.

That said, the BMC Monstercross is actually a pretty road bike as well. Even Bill rated it a 5 as a road racing bike. Take the word "racing" out of the equation and I'd rate it higher.

Before I got the Roadeo, the Monstercross was my primary "endurance" road bike running 38mm Barlow Pass tires. I had a couple calls with Mike V. trying to choose between a Road and a MC and have no regrets with my choice. When I want to enjoy the rougher stuff, I swap out my wheelset for one with 43mm Gravelking SKs. Brilliant!  And the Roadeo is a damn fine road bike--no quarrels there.

Bottom line, I concur with Bill's ratings based on my experience.

Austin

  

[Bill Lindsay]

I agree with Austin agreeing with me. :)

More clarification of the MC slot in my stable:  I'm a devoted member of San Francisco Randonneurs and my favorite part of the SFR calendar is their adventure series.  On the adventure series they have two 200k brevets that very well might be the two hardest 200k brevets in America. Assuming equivalent weather and wind, I know of no other routes that are as tough as La Ruta Loca 200k and Marin Mountains 200k.  I love those rides so much that I maintain a slot in my stable just for the execution of those rides, and my Black Mountain Monster Cross is my weapon of choice.  Here's a music video I filmed when I first completed La Ruta Loca.  126 miles, 12,500 feet of climbing, roughly 50 miles of dirt.  Not only am I repping El Cerrito with my racing kit, the music is also the El Cerrito High School Jazz Ensemble.  For coffee snobs, the song is Kopi Luwak. 

La Ruta Loca Movie

BL in EC

[John Woo]

I love my Monster Cross Disc, which has knobbyish 40mm tires. I’ve often thought of supplementing it with a rim brake Monster Cross for road bike use with 32mm tires and fenders. 

To keep this on topic, the Roadeo looks quite nice! 

On Jan 16, 2020, at 7:24 PM, Austin B. <austin...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[ted]

Bill,

At the risk of going badly off topic ...
I think you’ve bought a BMC road+ too, how do you see that vis a vi the monstercross? Do you think you will keep both?
If I’m running off the rails here feel free to ignore, and my apologies to one and all

Thnks
Ted

[Bill Lindsay]

I do have a Road+ frame in a box.  That build may happen this year, or might not.  I have a ton of riding ambitions that I want to complete before I get into another build.  I do not anticipate pushing out any of my Black Mountain bikes.  They are absurdly inexpensive and all have been awesome.  The only reason I can imagine not keeping one is that I wanted to give one away to somebody I cared about who had zero money and couldn't afford even an absurdly inexpensive frameset.  

BL in EC

[Mark Roland]

The video was slightly vertigo-inducing, but that does indeed look like an awesome ride--scenic, nice dirt mix, appears to be low traffic, too. And  the high school jazz band sounds pretty darn good.