ideas for daytime visibility: vests and whatnot

[Neil Doran]

Over the last few weeks I've had two close calls with automobiles during my morning commute that really seem to come down to 'I didn't see you'.

I currently have a dyno hub with full-time lights front and rear, and try and ride predictably, but seems like I need to up my visibility game. I'm thinking a very bright and loud reflective vest. Needs to be pretty light weight though, maybe even a mesh.

Any suggestions from the group mind on either vests you have been happy with, or other tips n tricks for daytime visibility?

[esoterica etc]

The safety triangles that Riv sells- they’re a game changer!

~Mark 

Raleigh, NC

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[Eric Norris]

Neil:

Famous sag driver Lee Mitchell, who spent countless (thousands?) of hours following cyclists day and night, used to say that the single most effective piece of reflective gear is an ankle band. The reflectivity and the motion capture a driver’s attention and immediately say, “This is a bicycle.” Lee would advise that ankle bands work better than vests or taillights.

My favorite is this one from Rivendell Bicycle Works: https://www.rivbike.com/products/ankle-reflector-rar 

The two ends of the band attach to each other in a way that they create a “flag” that sticks out to the side for more visibility.

And, SINCE YOU ASKED, please give me a second to step on my soapbox and say a word or two about superbright taillights: THEY SUCK!! Here in the US, we’ve gotten caught up in a taillight arms race, in which rear-facing lights are now as bright as front-facing lights were just a few years ago. A bike with a superbright taillight is impossible to ride behind—all you can see is a big red glow in front of you. This forces the poor following rider to ride out to the side (not safe) or far back (not very sociable, and makes drafting impossible) or out ahead of the rider with the superbright light (not very fair to the rider who’s just trying not to be blinded).

Lights this bright aren’t needed. Really, you don’t need much light to be visible from pretty far away on a dark road. I note that when I was riding PBP this year, the vast majority of cyclists (from outside the US) had reasonably bright taillights. The arms race hasn’t taken hold over there … yet.

And don’t get me started on riders whose taillights are pointing upward, rather than straight back, making them more effective at blinding fellow riders and less visible to motorists.

--Eric Norris
campyo...@me.com

@CampyOnlyguy (Twitter/Instagram)

[Mark Roland]

I commute in a construction worker style safety vest bright yellow with big reflective silver stripes. Try to find one with a good zipper, not velcro closures. These come in a variety of weights, including mesh. Google construction safety vest and you'll get a million different options and price ranges.

I also have a dayglow yellow pants band, again with reflective silver. And I use the orange and yellow safety triangle. Also run a dyno headlight set up, and/or a Cygo-lite with a flashing daylight LED mode (I never use the flash mode at night.) I imagine I can tell a difference in the willingness of cars to pull out in front of me when I have the light versus when I don't.

[PaulS]

Some of the responses above seem to reference dark/night-time riding.  I thought the question was regarding daylight hours.

For me, from what I've observed both on the bike and driving, is that cyclists' apparel does not do anything during daylight hours.  Light, reflective, dark, orange, etc.---once the cyclist rides under the shadow of a tree, building, etc., they "disappear".  Reflective gear doesn't work, since half the cars have their lights off and there is too much ambient light.  In my opinion, a light emitting source is needed.

Bright rear AND front lights are a must.  BLINKING mode, not constant on, got my attention the most.  Maybe even two lights.  Don't get a minimalist Knog or the likes. I can barely see those at night time, let alone during the day.  I use PDW Radbot and one of their other taillights (can't remember the name), and Lezyne headlight (~1200 lumens).  Very bright and visible in full daylight.

[Neil Doran]

Good stuff here, per the usual. Indeed, I am inquiring generally about daylight conditions, but fall is here, and winter not far behind!

Gotta say I totally forgot about the yellow ankle band! I have two of the high quality units that do indeed stick out like a flag. I've used them during winter commuting and on long rides where I am in and out of tree shadow, I think the circular motion of something bright yellow must help with visibility.

I also have suffered behind fellow riders at night that are running NASA-grade blinky lights. My current setup is the Riv-approved Secula that mounts on the seat stay. Only one mode (steady on) and one brightness (not that bright). I've become so fond of the dyno setup with 'always on' lights and never a thought to charge or batteries.

[Toshi Takeuchi]

If you are only talking about daylight visibility, then I agree with the construction worker vest.  You don't even need one that zips up. You can use the one you pull over your head and has no sides--the ones that buckle on the sides stay in place pretty well.  dontgethit.com has some selections that work well.  I got the reflective collars for my kids, but they are small for adults.

The fluorescent colors do help.  People have told me that my fluorescent colored helmet can be seen from very far away, so if you wear a helmet a hi-vis one would be recommended. Maybe you can change your socks at work, but if you get super hi vis ankle length socks, then you see them moving up and down during the day and they can be seen from quite far away too (out here you get these all black wearing riders with bright pink or yellow socks, or sometimes fluorescent shoe covers--all you see is their ankle or foot moving around).  If I am wearing long pants, then I tuck my pants into my socks.  It helps keep them out of the chain and makes my beautiful socks visible.  Maybe not fashionable, but we're trying not to get hit.  At night, I definitely use the ankle bands to keep my pants tucked close--Riv ones are the best!

Fluorescent clothes emit light (that is what fluorescence is).  That is why they seem unnaturally bright.  I don't use blinking lights--perhaps because I am too lazy to use battery powered lights.  My dynamo front and rear are always on, and my fluorescent clothes are quite easily seen (at least I've been told) even in the shade--except for when the sun is coming directly in the eyes, in which case seeing anything can be difficult!

--Riding style: don't zig in and out of the parked cars.  If there is a big gap you can go in to the parked car space for others to pass, but quickly take a line that will get wide of the parked cars slowly and predictably, so the cars know you are going to be in that space soon.  Use a rearview mirror to see behind you and plan appropriately.  

Don't hug the cars on the side of the road. If you are riding in the door zone, then if a person opens the car door on you, then you will get "doored" and crash.  Also it is harder to see you when you blend in with the parked cars.  On roads with two lanes in the same direction with no bike lane and moderate speed traffic, I take the lane and ride in the middle of the lane.  This is especially important when it is not safe for two cars, you and a parked car all lined up side by side.  If you take the lane, then ride like a car.  Don't go around the cars at a stoplight, just to have them have to figure out how to pass you and then you have to work your way back into your own lane.  If you keep your spot in the line, then the cars will respect your position and not get as annoyed with you.  

The safety triangles that Riv sells are really good.  I mounted one on the back of my seat and did notice a significant improvement in space given to me by cars.

--Just my general commuting tips--that will generally make you much more visible, but not necessarily directed at the original poster.

Toshi

[Grady Wright]

I saw this vest at a Carhartt store and it seemed very bright and reflective. they run large for wearing over clothing so may want to size down.

https://www.carhartt.com/products/high-visibility/High-Visibility-Class-2-Vest-100501

[Steve Butcher]

My helmet is HiVis Yellow.  Also, I wear a mesh Hi Vis Yellow vest with some reflective bits attached.  My bike has reflectivee and blaze orange triangles front and back.  I also use a front flaashing light and a rear blinking red light for subdued lighting in the morning or evening.  One of my rear reflecttive ttriangles  attaches to my rear rack and extends out about 18 inches.  It is spring loaded bounces around quite a bit so is attention getting.  Hope this information helps.

[Garth]

You can get mesh safety vests sold for cyclists, runners, etc. They don't weigh anything and they comes in all sorts of sized to wear over anything.

[Jim M.]

Nott mentioned in this thread yet (but I think I saw a previous discussion, maybe on iBoB) is the pool noodle:

https://www.sfgate.com/travel/resources/transit/article/pool-noodle-bicycle-safety-protected-lane-bike-13923482.php#

[Dave Small]

Hi Neil,

I wear the orange version of this shirt.  It's the brightest shirt I've ever seen (brighter live than in the picture), lightweight, and inexpensive.  It nearly glows.  Available with long sleeves, too.  

Dave

[Jack K]

Somewhere in the cycling archive that used to be my garage I have a new mesh safety vest I ordered, but never used, that I'd be happy to pass on to someone who can use it for the cost of shipping. I ordered this hi-vis one-size-fits-most safety vest several years ago from Nashbar, but discovered when it arrived that I'm smaller than the one size it mostly fits. Still in it's package, but I'd have to dig around for it. "Construction worker style" and pretty bulky over a cycling jersey on my 5'7" frame, but if you're bigger or riding in street clothes or want maximum real estate devoted to retina searing safety yellow then this may work better for you than it did for me.

Someone mentioned the reflective safety triangles as a "game changer" and I'll second that! The common Aardvark brand one could use a bit more velcro strappage to keep it from flopping around, but is extremely visible. This thing: https://www.nashbar.com/aardvark-reflective-triangle-yield-symbol-7x7-with-velcro-strap-yeild-symbol/p435349

Cheers,

-Jack

Raleigh, NC

[David Bivins]

Unless you're in the country without street lights, Why would someone ride with a super-high lumens headlight? I argued this with a fellow cyclist friend who was bragging that his headlight is "blinding." To what purpose?! If you must, point it angled downward so you can see potholes or the road. I used to come up over the Manhattan Bridge and get temporarily blinded--literally--by cyclists with insane front lights. And it goes without saying that if you're in a protected bike lane (like on the Manhattan Bridge) you can at least temporarily turn it off. I really don't get it. 
Even in a car I have trouble with other vehicles with the insanely bright LED headlights. They effectively wash out my entire rear-view mirror because the contrast ratio between them and the rest of the scene behind me is 100:1.

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[Eric Norris]

A properly designed light, like an Edelux, has a “cutoff” beam like the one on your car or truck. The light is focused downward on the road, where it needs to be. 

“Blinding” lights tend to have a comical pattern like a flashlight. The light shines up and down equally, creating a hazard for oncoming bikes (and, sometimes) vehicles. 

I use only focused lights on my randonneuring bikes. In addition to being more respectful of others, they’re more efficient because you’re not expending effort to light up the sky. 

–Eric N

On Sep 27, 2019, at 3:55 PM, David Bivins <dabi...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[David Bivins]

I thank you for your consideration for others, Eric. In NYC, most bike lights that I see are mounted on temporary mounts (because you have to take them off so they don't get stolen), and in my experience driving all over the country, many, many motorists do not have their headlights focused properly. 

[John McBurney]

In the bright daylight neon clothing is helpful. I have a very lightweight Descent nylon neon wind vest made for runners that I wear during hot weather. During fall and spring I like my Sugoi reflective and convertible jacket-vest. It’s neon when it’s daylight, but covers your torso in reflective dots when lights hit it in the dark. It’s too warm for hot weather but since the sleeves attach with magnets it’s pretty versatile. Waterproof but not for a long downpour. 

My go to for winter all conditions is a Showers Pass Club Visible jacket and Refuge Pants. Neon. waterproof. Wind proof. Lots of reflection. 

One thing to consider is movement. Wheel light or good reflectors do this in the dark.  I like Flektr wheel reflectors. I backed their indie go go campaign last year and supported them again this year. 

https://www.flectr.bike

John

On Fri, Sep 27, 2019 at 2:37 PM Mark Roland <absolut...@gmail.com> wrote:

I commute in a construction worker style safety vest bright yellow with big reflective silver stripes. Try to find one with a good zipper, not velcro closures. These come in a variety of weights, including mesh. Google construction safety vest and you'll get a million different options and price ranges.

I also have a dayglow yellow  pants band, again with reflective silver. And I use the orange and yellow safety triangle. Also run a dyno headlight set up, and/or a Cygo-lite with a flashing daylight LED mode (I never use the flash mode at night.) I imagine I can tell a difference in the willingness of cars to pull out in front of me when I have the light versus when I don't.

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[Joe S]

I've been hit twice by cars in the last 10 years. After the second one put me in the hospital I started riding with Carhartt Force Class 3 Hi-vis shirts. I have both long and short sleeve versions. Not very stylish, but I haven't had a close call since using them. I realize that could be more luck than anything else, but I'm sticking with them. Lighter and more comfortable than wearing a vest. I'm not a cycling jersey type of rider anyway.

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[Mark Roland]

I use the construction vest over regular clothing. I like these better than the cycling-specific or sport ones because, in my experience, they tend to be higher quality and not such a fitted fit. Also, pockets. And yeah, it's a bit (a lot?) on the dorky side. Years ago I glided past a group of kids walking in the middle of the road. One kid got startled. "Oh, snap!" Another kid says, "Oh, that's crossing school guard guy." I wear the vest, and the moniker, proudly. And, possibly, a bit more safely.

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[John Phillips]

   We live near UC Berkeley, and my wife and I find ourselves talking about how visible or invisible commuter cyclists are on the street as we drive around on errands, etc. One needs to drive cautiously, because few cyclists around here obey the traffic laws. What we've noticed is how often urban cyclists are only visible from the saddle or waist up, their legs and bicycles being hidden by the trunks and hoods of cars. Neither of us are color blind, which would change our perspective, but we've found brightly colored helmets, backpacks, vests, shirts or jackets to be the most visible during the day. Bright blue seems to be the most visible on sunny days. Yellow, orange & fluorescent colors are the most visible on foggy, cloudy and rainy days. At night, bike lights & reflective materials need to be mounted saddle height or higher to be seen in traffic.

   Without traffic blocking our view, bike lights, reflectors, and especially reflective leg bands are great at night or on rainy days.

John

[Rick Thompson]

I don't really like the pool noodle thing (it sticks out too far and makes the bike too wide), but I found putting one of the big triangles on a basket traffic side on my commuter bike seems to have improved the car passing distance.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/ricks_boats/42876972620/in/dateposted-public/lightbox/

On Friday, September 27, 2019 at 11:09:34 AM UTC-7, Neil Doran wrote:

[Toshi Takeuchi]

My friend's nickname given to him by his roadie clubmates is Caltrans.  He wears that with a badge of honor!

Toshi