The siren song of Atlantis

[Mike in BK]

The sirens are really luring me to want to grab an Atlantis this offering. This is irrational on my part for a few reasons. First being that the type of riding the Atlantis is made for is the least amount of my riding type here in Brooklyn. I'm mostly stretching out doing laps in the park. But I aspire to "adventure" riding and can get out of the city on occasion. Second would be that the sizing gives me pause. I spoke with Vince at RBW and he was emphatic that 55cm was my size with my 87.5" PBH. I agree that the 59cm would be a real high standover and just feel unnecessarily big. But jumping all the way down to 55cm would have me showing a lot of post and the 61.8cm stack height will also have me extending the stem quite high. Lastly, and rather importantly, this will be my first new, not pre-owned, frameset in decades. To make it work I'll need to sell off some bikes and parts, which means I need to find a Riv which overlaps the majority of riding I do and the riding I aspire to do, namely moderate trail riding and gravel. The Sam would be perfect for all and the 57cm should fit like a glove. A 57cm Roadini would be a candidate as well, as its off-Roadini capabilities were recently discussed here. But....the Atlantis! That paint, that look of the long stays, the aura of the mighty Atlantis!

[Ryan Mulcahy]

I was sold on the Roadini from the convo you're referencing. Not a huge fan of the colors coming this year, but planning to get one in 26.
Here's a seemingly tiny thing that I guess applies mainly to people in big urban areas (I'm in Boston, so let's call it "biggish" compared with NY) -- long Rivs like the Atlantis and the Joe (my wife has a Joe, and loves it) are a huge pain to take on the train. For me personally, this interferes with exactly what you're describing Mike -- wanting to get out of the city for adventure riding. That said, obviously might not be an issue for you.
I have a Hilsen and sometimes I'm surprised (and maybe this impression is wrong) that it seems to have so much less of a rep as a trail bike than the Hillborne. I think it'd equally capable -- with similar tire clearances --
and a better road bike. I also love the upright geo. There's a new batch coming soon, so I'd give that some thought, too. Anyhow, good luck!

[Nick Payne]

My PBH is 88cm, and my saddle height is 77cm.  With the Appaloosa, where the sizes are 54 or 57, rather than 55 or 59, I went for the 57. If you look at the link below, where I posted a photo of the completed bike, you can see the amount of seatpost showing with that saddle height, and the amount of stem showing with the bars at the same height as the saddle.

https://groups.google.com/g/rbw-owners-bunch/c/2EFvC4Chp40/m/cIifvFdfAAAJ

Nick Payne

[iamkeith]

You mentioned that your PBH is 87.5, but not how tall you are.  I dont mean to dismiss Vince's expertise and opinion, bt I think that's an important part of the equation if you're looking for an "ideal" fit.

My PBH is 87.0, and I'm 6'-2".  So long torso, short legs, and difficult to fit.  If you're shorter and more normally proportioned than me, I probably wouldn't hesitate on the 55.  Conversely,  if you're a similar height to me and have a 87.5 PBH, I also wouldn't worry about the 59 working.

I have a gen 1 Clem in 59, that's very close to the newest 59 Atlantis in terms of fit, and I would NEVER opt for a smaller size.  Standover is tight, but comfort and ride quality trum everything.  Even now, the top tube is quite a bit on the short side - which would push me away from the 55.  FWIW, I use large 2.3 tires, which further reduce standover, too.

The Atlantis is funny.  It was the bike that originally drew me to Rivendell, but I have ALWAYS  been berween sizes so, as much as I've wanted one, it's never quite worked out.  (Actually, there was a 56cm 650b briefly, which I almost bought, but decided it wasn't perfect.)  

I've been thinking about this next batch of Atlanti too, but think the smart call for me is to wait until the next batch of 57 Appaloosa.

[Mike in BK]

Yes, the Homer is a good one to consider. When I get out of the city I put my bike on my car's roof rack. Currently I have the type that attaches at the fork with the front wheel removed. I hate having to deflate my 30mm Vittoria Corsa tire to get the wheel past my medium pull Tektro side pull calipers. This was a consideration that put the Sam higher on the list than the Homer; the gained ease of canti or v-brakes (especially when Riv's v-brakes are finally available!). I could upgrade my rack, lol, but would a long Riv fit? Especially if it were an Atlantis. 

I'm learning when I hear the Homer is a better road bike than the Sam and would like to know more about the ride quality. Interestingly the Sam and the Roadini have next to identical geometry for the 57cm size. Obviously the way they ride will be influenced by the subtle differences and mainly the tubing. Even more interesting to me is that the Atlantis 2 in 61cm had remarkably similar geometry to the 57cm Sam Hillborne.

I'd love to hear from anyone of the Bunch who uses the Atlantis 3 on spirited road rides and what that's like. Same question for the Sam.

Thanks!

[Mike in BK]

This is a big help and I love the build, Nick. The Appaloosa makes a lot of sense and the 57 would be a fit. I guess the scarcity of Atlantis releases in recent years has put me in a state of FOMO. I recently picked up a '93 Rockhopper frame and rigid fork for cheap that I'm hoping to get it fully built up soon. It's the largest size and has a 55cm seat tube. Lots of post showing with a 76.5cm saddle height. 

[Mike in BK]

I'm 5'11", so longish inseam for my height and I don't have your reach. The Atlantis's long top tube only makes sense for me with sweptback bars. My dilemma isn't will I love the comfort of that, it's more will it feel good on spirited 2 hour road rides. Agreed about the Clem, and if standover wasn't an issue with the Atlantis I would grab a 59cm. Like most Riv lovers, I've never been on a bike that I could get my bars level with my saddle without a ton of quill stem extending from the too short head tube. 

[der_amerikanische_freund]

Interesting topic as I'm also seriously considering buying one of the next Atlantises. I'm 6'1" and 88 PBH and, before I read this conversation, I was quite set on the 55, as I will mainly use it with knobby tires for off-road riding so I want to have decent standover height if I need to put my feet on the ground when riding technical-ish trails. I do wonder now if this reasoning is valid or whether I'd be better off with a size 59. I have always been put off the 59 since I'd be outside their PBH range recommendation (minimum 89.5cm).

[Eric Marth]

Just for a quick reference I have an 87PBH and a 54cm Appaloosa. I'm 5'-10-3/8". I was between a 54 and 57 and when I said I planned on maxing out the tires Grant said to go with a 54. No complaints. 

If you're tempted by an Atlantis but find it inconsistent with the type of riding you'd do I'd say you should try to find one to test ride, maybe over a weekend trip. 

[Mike in BK]

Thanks. Guessing your saddle height would be about 76cm. That doesn't look like much post showing on a 54 though. Is your saddle lower in this picture? I have a lot of post showing on my 55cm 90's MTB. Lovely Appaloosa. I saw it on the Radavist.

[Mike in BK]

Also, how do you get your Ortho Bars to not slip? I don't even have mine on the road yet because I can make them slip just pushing down on them. Like you I have a 26.0 Tallux stem. Antonio at RBW said he took Ron's advice and uses a 25.4 stem. Also said he couldn't advise that for liability reasons ;-)

[Jay]

Great looking bike, Eric.  Funny, I re-watched your videos yesterday (while getting a snowstorm) and really liked the build.  I'm a smidge taller than you, and I've had my eye on an Appaloosa in the future, I think a 54 would work.

[Neale S.]

Mike - I have similar proportions to you and the 55cm Atlantis is spot on. The newer geometry Rivs are not equivalent to older models where the best fit came from sizing up. The Atlantis is a stout bike and almost works best for me as a touring/ATB/all-rounder, if you want a fast road bike this ain't it. 

[Tyler Ryan]

I'm roughly the same size and I'm looking at the geometry chart and I don't know how I could go any bigger than the 55. My current biggest bike has a 60cm top tube which is great for using swept back bars(albatross) with a "normal" length stem, 10cm. This very nearly puts drop bars out of reach for me on the 55cm which isn't a huge issue as I have other drop bar bikes that are shorter, smaller.

I am concerned about spending 2000$ on a bike frame and getting the wrong size so this is top of mind at the moment. It's not like there are a ton of Rivs around I can test out, even in a big city- I guess at least I know what I like.

[Alfonso Saco Díaz]

Tyler, do you mean roughly the same size as me (88 PBH and 6’1) or the original poster?

Double checking the geo chart, at 88 PBH I’d be completely outside the size 59 recommended ranges (starting at 89.5cm) so I guess I should stop worrying about it.

However, as investing in a Riv is not small task, one can’t help but worry about every detail. My worry then moves to whether an Appaloosa 57 would be an even better fit. Problem being I don’t fancy the Appaloosa’s colorways too much.

Would a 57 Appaloosa fit so much better than a 55 Atlantis that it’d be stupid to buy the latter just based on looks?

Thanks for taking part in the conversation

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[Tyler Ryan]

Alfonso,

Yes, I am 6'1" and 89 pbh. I should have been more clear. Upon doing some more double, triple checking- I do think the 55 Atlantis would be the right call. I am mostly concerned with standover height and top tube length.

Tyler

[iamkeith]

 It kind of makes me feel validated to know so many others struggle with sizin on this one, and feel like they too are between.

In case it helps anyone, attached is a picture of my 59 Clem with a 75.5 (29.75") saddle height, for my 87 PBH.  Also, a comparison of geometry charts I did a few months back, in a different thread.  You can see how similar they are.

As I mentioned, standover clearance is essentially nill, but it doesn't really bother me anymore.  I don't think it looks funny at all.  I WILL say that I use the bike differently than I anticipated.  I thought I'd use it as a sort of analog mountain bike, per it's concept, but I use it more as an every-day town bike.  It's not surprising to me that the model sort of evolved that way too. 

If you think you will use the Atlantis on hard surfaces instead of as a trail bike, it probably makes the bigger size feasible - if not optimal.

What's interesing about the OG Clem, is that they originally recommended frames by rider height - not PBH.  According to that chart, I was squarely in the middle of the 59's range.  Now, here's an almost identical Atlantis, and the recommended size based on my PBH puts me well into the 56.

[Karl Gee]

It depends.... I was sized at Riv HQ with a 58cm Atlantis but with 26" wheels for sturdy loaded touring. (no clue about my PBH, but 5' 10" with a 29" inseam and a long torso), 

Love the size, but had it been 700 wheels, I would have been put down a size. Now that I getting older, I am looking for a replacement with a Platypus for a step through convenience option.  

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[Garth]

Frame specs and fitting trumps the paint color every day of the week. The paint and all the parts can be changed, but not the frame itself. Lots of people have opted to get their stock Riv repainted at the time of ordering. In regards to the Atlantis, what it originally was in 1999 is long gone, so any connection to the later version is only the paint. It's been altered so may times I've lost count. I think it's overkill for what Mike in BK stated anyways. The Sam or Roadini sounds like a best option, given it fits you as intended. Have it painted the Russian green/blue of the Atlantis if you like.

[Tyler Ryan]

A 55cm Atlantis has a slightly longer top tube and slightly shorter standover height compared to a 57cm Hillborne. That means either would work size wise except the Atlantis is much stouter and can accommodate much larger tires, as can the Appaloosa. 

[der_amerikanische_freund]

Tyler, thanks for your clarification. I'm with you, standover is my main concern as I plan to ride my Atlantis off road and it's very likely I will have to dismount or touch the ground occasionally so I'd like to look after my pubic bone's health! Are you planning on purchasing an Atlantis this year then?

Garth, I see your point, it's a very valid one. I don't think Riv offers custom (re-)painting anymore (I remember asking Will about it some time ago). If one was to use a third party to repaint their stock model, would you be able to get decals from Riv?

And in order not to go too much off-topic on Mike in BK's original post, I also agree with Garth that the Atlantis would be overkill for the kind of intented riding. A Sam Hillborne looks to me like the best option as you can still load it for light touring and the ocasional weekend adventure.

[reynoldslugs]

I have an older one, maybe 22 years old.  Cleaned it up a few years back:

https://www.flickr.com/gp/41563482@N06/5C6m89G3G7

They’re great, fun, pretty, and easy to ride.  Get one and you won’t be sorry.

Max Beach

Santa Rosa CA

[Doug H.]

Max,

That is a beauty. Well-appointed too with Chris King hubs, XT Cranks and Paul brakes. I am tempted by the upcoming Atlantis but I'm tempted by most all Rivendell frame releases. I'm just not sure how it would differ substantially from my Clem L though.

Doug

[Tyler Ryan]

Alfonso,

I am tempted by the Atlantis. Luckily for my bank account I am usually able to talk myself out of buying a given Riv by the time they actually go on presale and once they're sold out it is beyond my control :). 

On Tuesday, February 18, 2025 at 3:35:24 PM UTC-8 der_amerikanische_freund wrote:

[Feliks Ulvåen Isaksen]

Just butting in here to say that I just had a back and forth with the lads at Riv regarding sizing. I'm 195 cm with a 96 pbh and really struggled with bikes for my whole riding life. I tried to ride on a 60 Hillborne now for a while, but this did not work out at all, so I got in touch with Riv for some advice on whether to get the current 64 Homer or the 62 Atlantis in the upcoming release. The 62 atlantis has a longer reach and steeper upslope than the Homer has. Will even said the 62 Atlantis is the biggest bike they make, so for my part I will go for the 62 Atlantis when it releases. I will certainly show more seatpost, but the most important part for me is that I can get that nice upright position without feeling cramped or hurting myself, which is what is currently happening on my 60 Hillborne (which, in my experience, feels small despite it being "tall")

[der_amerikanische_freund]

It seems some of us worry about how much seat post is shown. I had an email exchange with Will last week regarding this and he pointed out that the old fist-full of post thing works on level top tube bikes, but that on six degree upsloping bikes it's good to show some seat post so I wouldn't worry too much about that. And as we all know it all comes down to PBH and standover clearance - you must be comfortable with whatever stand over your frame size affords and the type of riding you do. If it's mostly road, pavement, etc., you may get away with little or no standover clearance at all. On the other hand if you are going to be riding off-road, trails, etc., you'll most likely want an inch or two.

Felik, sounds like the 62 Atlantis will be a good fit.

[Mike in BK]

Thanks, Alfonso. Cento percento (100%) agree with the point about sloping top tubes and seat post showing. Sloping has been in the mix for a long time and I'm accustomed to not applying the fist full of post idea to anything other than a level top tube. However, a sloping frame still can be undersized and too much post can correlate to too low of a stack height and compensating for both with loads of post and loads of stem seems like the wrong size frame (especially for $1750). That's why I worry about being between sizes. Everyone fits differently and this probably makes perfect sense for the owner of the bike below, but I'm not convinced I'd be on the right size frame if the final configuration resembled this. I definitely don't want to offend the owner, so my apologies for illustrating the point with someone's beautiful bike. Probably this was just the Riv build before the owner dialed it in anyway:

[Eric Daume]

For the Riv builds, they don’t insert the post and stem very much—they don’t want to scratch them up for the first owner. 

Eric

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/716a91d2-782d-4deb-b7e3-c18a0823b18cn%40googlegroups.com.

[Mike in BK]

For sure, yes. I should have emphasized that more when I wrote "Probably this was just the Riv build before the owner dialed it in.." The picture was just a perfect illustration of my point about how an undersized frame starts looking. Thanks, Eric!

[der_amerikanische_freund]

I guess if that was a final build the owner probably needed a step-through but didn't like the look of it and opted for a more standard frame and managed to make it work. Fair enough.

Going back to the sizing and initial question of this thread, Will's latest newsletter included a very relevant "question of the week":

Hi Will,
I'm looking forward to the Atlantis presale! I have a quick sizing question for you. I'm 6'1 with an 89cm PBH, so I'm right on the cusp between the 55 and 59cm. What size should I get?  Also, any word on the presale date?
-Ray

Hi Ray,
Measure your PBH again and really pull hard. Is it still 89cm? If it's any bigger, go with the 59cm.

If it really is 89cm, the frustrating answer is you could go either way. If you ride a lot of trails or you're used to bikes with plenty of standover, the 55cm has plenty of front end height for getting the bars high, but if you're mostly going to be on the road or riding only mellow trails, you'll still have a touch of standover on the 59cm. Our drawings show the 55 and 59cm as having 83 and 88cm standover heights with a 53mm tire. If you plan to use a tire skinnier than that most of the time, get a 59cm. If you want to max it out, go with the 55.

James here has an 80cm PBH and rides a 53cm Atlantis with almost no standover, but he likes the way it fits. If you go big and get the 59cm frame, you'll still have more standover than he does. 

You could also wait for a 57cm Appaloosa, but we won't have them again until 2026, and it'll only buy you 27 millimeters of extra bar height potential, which you could easily get by raising your stem a bit.

The Atlantis presale is March 20th, the first day of Spring.
-will