Cheviot and A Homer Hilsen?

[Tirebiter ATX]

Could these two country bikes actually complement the other?

[Reid Echols]

I don't know about each other, but they'll both certainly draw a lot of compliments from bystanders (even from 6+ feet away)!

In seriousness, yes; provided they're set up differently enough from each other. Cheviot as a commuter with racks and swept-back bars, Homer with drops, for example. Rivs have the bug/feature of being versatile enough that you can make them very similar to each other, or very different. 

If you want more "spread", sub one of those for a Riv that'll take 50+mm tires and cantilevers. 

My thoughts from quarantine, 

Reid in Austin 

[Lyman Labry]

Reid,

Thanks for comments.

Also in Austin,

Lyman

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[Joe Bernard]

As Reid says you can set them up differently, but really they're the same bike with varying toptube heights. The only reason I can see to have both is if you just really like that style of bike - lugged Riv with road brakes - and are into the names and paint on both.

[Toshi Takeuchi]

I have both bikes and set up the Cheviot as the around town shopper/commuter with basket and Albastache bars.  I set up the Homer with drop bars and can do more sprightly riding with it. This is a great two bike combo.

Toshi

On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 7:52 AM Tirebiter ATX <lyman...@gmail.com> wrote:

Could these two country bikes actually complement the other?

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[Lyman Labry]

Yes indeed. Cheviut easier on/off with grocery loads and kid hauling. 

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[Roberta]

I think they'd compliment each other very well, and I'm thinking I'd want a step thru like a Chev, myself.    I have a MIT AHH  and the ride is light and spirited.  I've ridden the Chev and is solid and stable.  I think between the two, you might have all the bikes you need.

[JAS]

I've been thinking about a Cheviot as a compliment to my Clem, wanting a "go-faster-feeling" bike for road riding and light loads. My Clem is great for dirt trails, rough roads and grocery runs.  Though I enjoy the ride, light and spirited is what I'm after for bike #2.  (I like that description, Roberta.)   I'm replacing a Klein sport-touring bike that has those very skinny tires (28s) with no room to go bigger and which I've pretty much ignored since getting the Clem.  

So here's the question for those of you with more experience than I, do you think the Cheviot could be built up in such a manner and if so, are there certain parts that would make a difference?  Wheels, for example?  What makes the MIT AHH seem light and spirited compared to the Chev?

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

Joyce, what are we, the same exact person???

I love my Clementine, same as you, but I *also* want something spirited and light, but not a diamond frame. I’m really hoping those Cheviots happen late summer because I’ll be getting one in that batch. I had the same caveat as you - I told Vince I wanted the bike to be a lot lighter than my Clem. Think about it - those Clems are overbuilt for me. I don’t have a lot in common mass-wise with a 200 pound man - I could get by with lighter tubing. I love my Clem but it is heavy, and I have nothing but hills here. Therefore, I’m always expending a fair amount of effort and I’m slow. The only other bike I’m interested in is the Cheviot, because it’s a mixte. But it also occurs to me I might be able to get what I want from Nobilette. So, I asked Vince: should I order a Cheviot or should I get a lighter-tubed custom? After we talked for a long time he told me we could do fine with a production Chev if I spent a little extra on getting lighter PARTS. Things like aluminum handlebars instead of steel, etc. I would love to see Rivendell offer a Susie-version of its Clem.

So, that’s my plan for now. But those Cheviots will not arrive until sometime in August. Supposedly. Who knows with the world being as it is right now. We could be twins you know; each have a Clementine and a Cheviot. #rivtwins

[Joe Bernard]

Joyce,

I've owned 4 Clems (2 L, 2 H) and a Cheviot - which probably means I have a problem, but that's another story! 🤪 - and think I can double-up a bit on Leah's thoughts.

The Chev is often misunderstood as a cruiser/tourer-type bike because of the mixte look but in reality it's a light-ish, stiff-ish road bike with road brakes.

I think it's a perfect compliment to your Clem set up with alu bars, stem and post, and maybe don't load it down with front and rear racks and a bunch of bags. Fenders are fine and maybe a rear rack to support a medium-ish saddlebag is good. Go for it!

[Clayton.sf]

My experience is different. For me both Clem L and Cheviot are similar regarding effort to speed ratio. I have not found the Cheviot any speedier than the Clem. The Clem does better in rough stuff and is an equal on the road. Cheviot is easier to mount and dismount with load. Both are NOT bikes I would take on unloaded "spirited" rides. Sure, I have done 100k ride on the Cheviot just because, but my 100k times on my Boulder or Blackmountain are significantly faster. 

Clayton Scott

HBG, CA

[Joe Bernard]

I would argue that you're a very experienced rider doing high mileage days on bikes Rivendell doesn't make. In my opinion the comparison I made applies better to the riding and bicycle interests of Joyce and Leah.

[Clayton.HBG]

Joe, You are advising them that the Cheviot rides "faster" than the Clem and the Cheviot is a road bike.

I am saying they are both the same for ME from a effort to speed ratio. 

If they really want a faster bike, I suggest they get something else based on MY experiences. A Roadini or Roadeo perhaps, but I don't know if they would be quicker. I can only compare them to what I have which is what I did. Just cause I allegedly have done longer rides, that does not mean my experience is less valid. Not sure how riding shorter distances makes for better comparison. 

My quickbeam was also faster than a Chev or Clem even with just one gear. 

Clayton Scott

HBG, CA

[Joe Bernard]

Yes, I'm telling them my experience with both bikes, and applying it to what I know about their riding. I have no problem with them having both opinions, this is an opinion forum.

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

Honestly, the more input the better. I feel like the Cheviot isn’t discussed much/enough. I was thrilled to see the cool Montanan featured on the Blug with hers this week.

But why is this? Is the Cheviot seen and used more as an about town bike and not for other types of rides?

Whatever anyone wants to say about the Cheviot, I’ll read it.

[Joe Bernard]

I *do* think Chevs get tagged as "about town bikes", as I alluded to earlier about the mixte look somewhat disguising the Rivendell road bike it really is. Ok maybe it's a Country Bike; Roadeo and Roadini are the true Riv road bikes. To me it's a Homer or Sam with a lower toptube.

[Roberta]

I'm not sure...

One thing Leah has been exploring and I'm contemplating is new tires.  AHH has good tires (RBW lister built up the bike).  With every Riv I've tested otherwise, they have been on not so great (as I've been told) Kenda tires.  I don't know enough about bikes to know if the other components make a big difference in the ride, but I do expect that tires would. 

I think the tubes on the AHH are slimmer and on the Joe A are stouter. I'm translating that to the steel is more forgiving/flexier for the AHH.  Again, I never did any back to back comparisons.

Leah would be a good person to respond since she had a pre-Chev Betty Foy and both Clem Ls.

Roberta

[Joe Bernard]

Those are good lines in the sand, Roberta. Admittedly most Rivs aren't massively far apart in weight and ride, but Cheviot is to AHH as Joe A is to Atlantis, and Clem is on the stouter Hillibike side where Joe A and Atlantis live. In..my..opinion.

[Abcyclehank]

Could not agree more than with Joe and Roberta. Hopefully after Leah’s walk she reads the wisdom both of you present about tubes and models.

Sincerely,
Ryan Hankinson
West Michigan

[Leah Peterson]

I am very interested in this topic of What Is A Cheviot, but I’m thinking of starting a new thread for fear of hijacking this one.  I don’t have any knowledge to contribute about the Homer (but our Roberta does!) and am more interested in soliciting info re: the Cheviot. It’s just that I’ve started so many threads...😬

Sent from my iPad

On Mar 27, 2020, at 4:44 PM, Roberta <rcha...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Joe Bernard]

We're all (most of us, at least a lot of us) stuck at home and could use all the threads that are fit to print. Start a new thread yo!

[JAS]

Leah, I'd happily be your twin!  You want the sparkly red paint on your Chev and I'll have to hold out for a beautiful blue.  Thanks for sharing what Vince told you.  I love that idea of a Susie-version.  Now I wonder how long we will have to wait for the next batch of Chevs.  

[JAS]

Joe, thanks so much for the encouragement and your ideas for how to lighten up this baby.  I'll be interested to see what comes of this discussion.  I can see myself with fenders and a saddlebag with a rack or some sort of bag support if needed with the objective of keeping it light and agile.

[Toshi Takeuchi]

I’ve never felt slow on my Cheviot—other than my more upright position in the wind, and this issue could be solved with a switch to drop bars.

With that said, there is a very noticeable difference in steering between the Homer and Cheviot. The Homer is much more responsive to turning the handlebars. 

Riv bikes are never “twitchy”. On my twitchy road bike at slow speed, climbing at maybe 5/6 mph, my only crash on that bike was when I dropped my water bottle and grabbed for it and my front wheel turned slightly and the bike flopped to the ground.

Rivs never feel unstable like my above experience, but if you are at slow speed the Homer will feel more unstable as the front wheel wobbles. If you’ve ever climbed a hill at about the slowest speed you can—you will experience this effect because you will need to adjust your balance by turning the front wheel from side to side. With the Cheviot, I am confident that if I had no front cables I could spin my front fork in a 360 without falling because with a Cheviot I turn by shifting my weight and not by turning my bars.

On the flip side, when I’m bombing down a twisty road, I want to be on my Homer because the more responsive steering will get me down effortlessly. I am confident I could go at similar speeds down a mountain on my Cheviot but I would need to commit my weight on every sharp turn.

If you want to watch this type of riding in action, then the best example I remember is when Floyd Landis “won” the Tour de France on his famous breakaway stage. He rocketed down the mountain by throwing his bike and weight from side to side and not turning his front wheel. The commentary was that he was trained as a mountain biker.  I think mountain bikes cannot be floppy at low speed, so they behave more like a Cheviot so you turn by weight and not by turning the bars. Floyd Landis showed that you can descend mountain passes at the elite level using this technique.

Now, getting back to the “faster” discussion. If you equate faster with more steering input, I bet the Cheviot and Clem will be similar in terms of how the bike turns when you turn the bars. 

I bet the Cheviot being lighter will be more sensitive to weight shifts and will turn faster. I haven’t ridden a Clem, but I load my Cheviot regularly and know that I feel faster unloaded :-). It probably won’t be as dramatic as that!

Toshi sheltering in Oakland

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[Jason Fuller]

 Any of my complimentary pairings would have to have one bike that's relatively lively and suitable for comfy road tires, and the other would have to have generous tire clearance and be able to carry a fair bit.  An AHH / Joe Appa combo would be my choice probably as of today, though I have zero regrets about my Sam / Clem combo. The thing about Rivendells though, as you all know, is that almost any model can be an "do anything" bike if you want. 

[Dorothy C]

When I briefly had 42mm Panaracer Paselas on my 55 Cheviot it definitely felt like a faster ride, but unfortunately I got a rose thorn flat in the first week of having them on the bike. I switched out to Schwalbe Marathons because I often commute on the Cheviot (only a mile to work, but a flat would put a big delay on my getting there), and they feel more sluggish, though not as bad as the Kendas I originally had on the Appaloosa.

I agree with the steer with your hips not the handlebars comment. In fact I am being a bit too thrifty, probably, in still riding the *short* Brooks B17 I had on my previous cramped bike. I sometimes switch the seat post and saddle to a vinyl one (less fiddling if the seatpost is attached) if it is threatening a bit of rain, and I feel the effect of more responsive steering with that one. It is a Cannondale men's saddle we had in the parts box. I should probably just spring for the Brooks B17 full length like I have on the Appaloosa.