Cold Weather Riding Gear

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

All this talk here and there on the threads about Who Is Wearing What for cold weather riding made me start a dedicated thread. There are certainly some archived threads on cold weather gear, but offerings change so here’s an updated thread. I am interested in this topic because I now live in Southwest Michigan and cannot bring myself to bike in temps below 35. But I miss riding so much, and if the roads are clear of snow and ice, I’d like to go. But what to wear? 

Last night I attended a Zoom with the famous Betty Foy rider and Cycling Savvy instructor Pamela Murray, and this was our very subject. There were a lot of good ideas presented, the common denominator being WOOL. Today I looked around online for some clothing that would help me out. Until December, I had been living in the desert so I’ll have a few pieces I’ll have to purchase, but most people won’t have to buy so much. Here are some things I found (and some of which I did order): 

REI jacket is not, admittedly, wool. But it gets wonderful reviews and it does have pit vents, reflectors and is made from recycled nylon so it’s not contributing to the landfill problem. The hood is meant to fit over the helmet - a huge plus.

The helmet is because my Nutcase is between 9-10 years old and disintegrating inside, so never mind that. (But won’t it be cute with my jacket?)

The leg warmers were recommended by Pam, and after looking around online, they seem to have no rival. They are wool and made in the USA. Sustainable this and that, all the good stuff.

The cap is wool and from our Randi Jo out of Elkton, OR. My ears have been freezing when I’m out running because stocking caps creep up and expose my ears. Headbands don’t keep your head warm. This cap does double duty and I’m excited to try it.

Analog has some really promising “pogies” by their 5th Season house brand, but they are for drop bars and they have not yet said whether they will work for swept back bars like most of us ride - I’ll find out. I think these could be a great option for keeping hands warm.

I don’t have a plan for shoes yet, but I have tons of Smartwool socks and lots of boots, so something will likely work. 

I’m sending photos of the new gear in case it helps anyone else. The jacket comes in men’s as well.   

Leah 

[Eric Floden]

All other things being equal, Gore-Tex socks keep my feet quite a bit warmer, at least at near-zero temperatures

EricF

Vancouver BC

[Ben Mihovk]

I have the ear-flap cap from Randi Jo, and I'm going to go on record and say it's one of the best purchases I've made. I'll ride in "feels like" single digits and this cap under my helmet with a Smartwool neck gaiter pulled up to my chin keeps me warm enough for a good 25-30 minutes in the coldest temps. The cap is an absolute dream to have all the way up into the 40s and 50s, too. It never gets too hot up into that range.

Ben in Omaha 

[David Hallerman]

One main thing I've found to keep my head warm when it's really cold, 45° and below, besides a thin wool watch cap and a Chrome hoodie is a helmet one size larger. My winter helmet. Because I dunno how it works for others, but more than a thin item underneath my normal size helmet is too tight. Doesn't work for warmth, gives me a literal headache.

One size up. For my helmet, and it's the same way I keep my feet warm. Winter cycling boots, but one size up from normal. And then I wear super-thick Smartwool or Darn Tough hiking socks with lots of cushion. Again, not tight, which means air circulates, which keeps my feet warmer.

Dave, who notes temps right now here in the lower Hudson Valley are in the mid-20s which is kinda below his winter cycling comfort zone

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[Adam]

Like you, this is my first winter riding in the midwest -- in Chicago.

I've been pleasantly surprised that anything above 0 or so is working fairly well for me. I went out for a while in the single digits yesterday and was very warm. My biggest challenge is not overdressing and making sure to preemptively unzip or remove layers--sweating is no good. Also finding ways to drink water and snack . . .

My favorite things:

Outdoor Research lobster gloves (Hi-camp three finger)

thin wool balaclava (can't believe how effective this is)

ski googles (though the fog/ice thing is tough if you get too warm)

thin & thick wool socks (two pairs) in boots

marathon winter plus tires (riding on ice is not a problem now)

For what it's worth, riding through the snow on a bike that shouldn't be there is kind of fun, and definitely an insane workout.

Adam

[George Schick]

Some good responses here already and I'm sure there will be lots more.  I used to ride in cold weather all the time several decades ago, but being 70+ the allure for that has kind of left me.  And yes, being cooped up inside during those long Winter months drives me crazy, too. That being said, I'd like to offer some cautionary advice that has not so much to do with just dressing right for the cold:  First of all, be ve-e-rry careful about the surfaces over which you're riding.  "Snow" may look OK, but there may be a slick layer of ice underneath it.  For some reason Ma Nature likes to dump freezing rain on the streets and sidewalks and then snow over them and that can catch one unaware.  Secondly, municipalities throughout the Midwest love to dump loads and loads of salt on the streets and roads during Winter months and that stuff is murder on steel.  If you have some very nice bikes in which you've invested lots of time, effort, and money (which you have) you can gradually destroy them by salted slushy material not only getting on your bike's components (especially drive train), but inside the frame tubes, as well.  Die hard commuters around here usually have a "beater" bike they reserve for Winter cycling.

I have often wished that I lived further South than NE Illinois where the Winter weather is more mild and they've never heard of road salt.  Just sayin'

On Thursday, January 27, 2022 at 10:28:14 AM UTC-6 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:

[Batwing]

In Wisconsin, which is cold, I use lined Deerskin Gloves.  Like these:

https://www.farmandfleet.com/products/619858-wells-lamont-grain-deerskin-work-gloves.html?blaintm_source=google&blaintm_medium=lia&setstore=22&gclid=Cj0KCQiAosmPBhCPARIsAHOen-Mh71-PZ8mRUECmLwsMaLyI__bsbpyi7Lv1QMyTK3V0xjLivJWpVhwaAkgMEALw_wcB

They break the wind and insulate.  I go through a pair every year.

I also use a Balaclava and goggles.  You want all skin covered when you are north of Illinois.  Probably in Illinois too, but it seems that the wind chill declines quicker above the latitude that is the WI/Ill state line.

Ryan

[Eric Daume]

Several years ago, I bought some custom pants from Lou at Foxwear. I'm tall and skinny, so it was nice to have pants that fit, and the cost is super reasonable for custom MUSA clothing (<$100). These are good from high 20s to mid 40s, and with a base layer underneath, I can go down into the teens. Lower than that and I stay inside.

On top, I wear a base layer, then layer various jackets or sweaters, depending on the weather. 

For hands, I have three or four different weights on gloves, depending on the weather.

A buff or tube headwear is super versatile around your neck or head.

My feet get thick socks with insulated hiking boots for the coldest weather.

Eric

Plain City, OH

where it has currently warmed up to 30F after single digits

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[Mackenzy Albright]

My favorite sub -10*c gear is a arctaryx atom LT, big bill wool pants, deerskin fleece lined mits, tough duck canvas vest, SWRV winter cycling cap. When it gets to -16 to -30 I'll throw a Pendleton on as an extra base layer and some kamik winter boots with knee high ski socks. 

I don't very my gear too much while riding in various temps. As long as I keep moving and don't sweat I'm good. 

[aeroperf]

Don’t forget the “Sheldon Brown” solution to a cold head during winter riding - tape over the vents in your helmet with packaging tape.
Cheap, but effective.

[Patrick Moore]

I'll be particularly interested in others' opinions on the Junction and on other, similar non-wool, wind-front jackets with pit zips. In particular, whether they allow comfort over a, say, 30* temp range, by opening front and pit zips as temps rise.

I'll often ride out in the 20s and come back in the 50s, and yes, a shell of some sort is very nice at 20*F and wind.

I have a light lined shell -- ie, mid-weight nylon shell with light lining of some sort. Fine at 20 or 30 over a wool jersey or wool jersey and Ibex wool vest, but sweaty at 45 or 50 until I had pit zips installed; unzip front 1/4, open pits, flowthrough solves that problem.

Is the Junction similar? Are there other cycling jackets (pockets, please!) with high, zipped neck and pit zips?

Thanks,

On Thu, Jan 27, 2022 at 9:28 AM Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:

REI jacket is not, admittedly, wool. But it gets wonderful reviews and it does have pit vents, reflectors and is made from recycled nylon so it’s not contributing to the landfill problem. The hood is meant to fit over the helmet - a huge plus.

[Richard Rose]

I have one that is really superb. Fully vented I can wear up to 50 degrees. All vents closed and worn over 3 thin wool layers I was comfortable down to single digits ( in the woods - no wind). It is a 7 mesh jacket - “ Revelation” is the model. Insanely expensive. My best eBay score ever! 

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 27, 2022, at 6:43 PM, Patrick Moore <bert...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Patrick Moore]

Thanks, Rich. Tell me, please: Is your jacket lined or just a shell? #2: Is the material breathable or just plain old nylon? And #3: what is "mesh"? Lastly, #4: Revelation is the model; who is the maker?

Thanks.

Lastly, aimed all all of youse: Do any of yiss know of a good tailor who will work well by mail and who can remove and install zippers competently? Reason: I have a decent Endura winter cycling jacket of supposedly "breathable" material that doesn't really breathe, and with zip-off sleeves, and I'd like (1) to have the zip-on/off sleeves sewn permanently to the jacket body, and (2) have pit zips installed. In my limited experience, pit zips are a heckofalot better than zip off sleeves.

Thanks, y'all. Or more properly, all y'all.

Patrick "the singular is 'yew' " Moore, who is half Filipino but who insists that the southern accent of his English and Scots Irish forbears is not ignorant or "uncultured," just old fashioned. (I read somewhere that "Ahm gwine daon t' see dem boys" is 17th-18th century English aristocrat talk from the Virginia tidewater plantations.)

[Patrick Moore]

Wool, wool, and more wool. And pit zips. And layers, feet, hands, torso, head.

Those merino wool neck warmers that you can pull up over your head are very nice: they can be used in place of scarfs to keep your neck warm or pulled up like balaclavas. But my Buff brand one is thin and pills even at about $40, while the better one from Varusteleka.com at about $15 is warmer and of better quality. Wear under Walz or Specialized winter cycling caps with earflaps. (The faux Peruvian earflap bobble cap with fuzzy ties now does bedtime duty, only I cut off the bobble and the ties. Fleece-lined acrylic knit. But it's very warm for riding, too.)

Varusteleka.com has all sorts of cold winter gear, made for them, and Euro mil surplus, including ex Sov bloc. I got a very warm tightly knit high-collar, full-zip sweater with arms long enough for riding the hooks from them, and I also found elsewhere online a "Fargo: The Movie" state troopers' hat with fleece lining and pull-down, fleece-lined ear flaps that bolt under your chin. No badge. A series of gloves, from thin silk liners from Lands' End to DeFeet tightly knit wool ones to Verusteleka Bundeswehr-surplus lined leather gloves (2 sizes too large. Very good quality) to wear over both, plus huge Outdoor Research nylon sheaths to wear over everything if things get really bad. Also oversized Pearl Izumi lobster mitts which will swallow silks and wools.

Shoes: Old model pair of Lake SPD winter boots, which I wear only if out for more than 1 hour in temps well below freezing. Over merino wool socks. Otherwise, plastic bags between merino socks, with thin liners if need be, and summer shoes. 

Legs: 2 pairs of Bellweather windfront tights, the ~1990 pair nicer than the 2018 pair, but both warm down well into the teens, at least. But usually, just Endura "breathable" fabric riding pants, or Osloh cycling jeans, or wool plus 4s adapted from dress flannels with wind liner in front and velcro to cinch just below knee (and anti-wear reinforcement in seat) over Rick Risemberg's very nice over-knee wool socks. 

I bought a Leatt cycling jacket, med weight nylon shell with lightweight fuzzy lining, in which I had pit zips sewn. Good originally, but the pit zips make it far, far more adaptable to different temperatures.

On Thu, Jan 27, 2022 at 9:28 AM Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:

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Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

[Dee Dee]

Patrick, 7mesh is the maker of the Revelation jacket Richard mentioned.

https://7mesh.com/mens-revelation-jacket

-Danny

[Richard Rose]

I was just going to paste the same link!

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 27, 2022, at 9:38 PM, Dee Dee <scre...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Patrick Moore]

Thank you, Danny and Richard.

I'd better look on Ebay, because $475 is out of my price range!

[Richard Rose]

I know! Me too. I got mine for $70.00! I will say that if I could afford $475.00, I would want one. 7 mesh have other jackets. I would check out their website as their might be another product that might do the trick.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 27, 2022, at 9:43 PM, Patrick Moore <bert...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[rlti...@gmail.com]

I’ve been wearing an Arc’Teryx A2B Commuter jacket this winter and I’m really liking it. It has Gore Windstopper on the front panels and open weave wool panels on the back to vent heat. 

No pit zips but I find that opening the zipper allows plenty of air in to release excess heat. Not made any more but I found one on close out. Here is REI’s description of the jacket:

https://www.rei.com/product/133629/arcteryx-a2b-comp-jacket-mens

Robert Tilley

San Diego, CA

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On Jan 27, 2022, at 3:43 PM, Patrick Moore <bert...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Patrick Moore]

Well, saving $405 is worth a bit of ebay and sale searches! Thanks.

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[Patrick Moore]

Thanks. That would be ideal. The "see something similar) models that the REI site sent me to showed me only fleece and all-synthetic alternatives.

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[JAS]

Lots of good advice here!  I use much of the same techniques and have my favorite "go to" stuff from cross country skiing and several years of bike commuting in Denver.  It doesn't get as cold in the PNW but here's what I like when it gets cold:

*Smart Wool quarter zip long sleeve shirts (usually 2, sometimes with a wool sleeveless as well)

*wool vest (when it gets into the 20s)

*Showers Pass jacket with pit zips for core ventilation.  

*wool long underwear

*bike pants with windproof front, breathable back.

*waterproof hiking shoes with wool socks 

*Outdoor Research winter gloves with long gauntlet

*ankle straps for visibility and to keep the cold from coming up the pant leg (wearing a fanny pack or waist pack will also help keep the cold from coming up the bottom of your jacket)

Leah, there's a "berry" colored Showers Pass jacket that would be very pretty with your Platy.  https://www.showerspass.com/products/womens-syncline-cc-jacket?variant=19622463897688 

Good luck and keep riding!

#RivSisters,

Joyce

[Patrick Moore]

Joyce and others: a question and some remarks.

On Fri, Jan 28, 2022 at 11:49 AM JAS <swanso...@gmail.com> wrote:

....*Showers Pass jacket with pit zips for core ventilation.  

1. I always assumed that SP jackets were meant for rain. Question: Do they serve well (because of pit zips) as an outer layer and insulator for dry-weather cold-temperature (32 south to teens) over wool layers? 

*Outdoor Research winter gloves with long gauntlet

ODR or other, certainly yes to long gauntlets. I very often will wear repurposed street gloves (like the Bundeswehr pair) that are very nice but leave a 1/2" gap between end of cuff and beginning of glove; not nice at 25*!

 

wearing a fanny pack or waist pack will also help keep the cold from coming up the bottom of your jacket

Rant begins! Cycling bottoms, tights or pants, should have waists high enough in the back that even when in the hooks of a drop bar the waistband does not separate from your top layer!!!!!!! I can't say how many, often expensive winter riding pants I've bought only to find that they are stupidly, stupidly cut like last year's hipster jeans. I've had expensive pants -- Enduras, Osloh jeans so beloved of BSNYC -- retailored in the waist to fit more snugly and reduce this gapping tendency. And I'm not talking of gapping due to an oversized belly and slipping waist, either. Rant ends.

But the most comfortable riding bottoms of all, ever, besides cycling-specific tights (which seem all to be cut high in back) are converted mens' dress pants from long before today's modern, low-cut and tight re-makes of 1960s pants. These come up high enough to well overlap or underlap your jersey, and to hold a tucked-in layer securely tucked in when you are bent over the hooks. (Speaking of 1960s: 1960s dress pants are old even for me, but I recall owning in the mid 1980s a very nice pair of dress wools that must have been 20 years old then: pegged like Jack Kennedy but high in waist like your grandfather's pants. Wish I'd kept them.)

 

[JAS]

I like my Showers Pass Elite jacket for cold weather and rain.  Yes, it can be vented under the arms and has a cape-like back vent for air flow.  If I don't open the arm vents, it can build up a little moisture, but nothing that makes me cold.  If it's super cold, I use a very heavy wool Patagonia crew neck base layer I got years ago to wear under my dry suit for kayaking, but it would probably be overkill for folks who run hot.  

I use the fanny pack trick when it's really cold and windy.  I don't have a "pants-gap" issue; instead, I just like all the help I can get to keep the cold out.  Good point about tucking a couple of the top layers into your pants and having a waist-band high enough to do so.  

One more tip:  A stretchy Gor-Tex helmet cover keeps the rain out and blocks the helmet vent holes.  Combined with a thin wool beanie, my head and ears stay warm.  It looks a bit like mushroom-head, but that's the price I pay for warmth!   

[Leah Peterson]

Oh Joyce COME ON now that I see the raspberry jacket I am besotted with it! Ugh, I should have messaged you before I ordered the REI jacket! 

RivSisters,

Leah

On Jan 28, 2022, at 1:49 PM, JAS <swanso...@gmail.com> wrote:

Lots of good advice here!  I use much of the same techniques and have my favorite "go to" stuff from cross country skiing and several years of bike commuting in Denver.  It doesn't get as cold in the PNW but here's what I like when it gets cold:

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[WilletM]

Another enthusiastic vote for Showers Pass Elite and Refuge (and other models) jackets as outer layers in cold/dry conditions.  Winter riding in western Colorado at 6000' of altitude is exceptionally comfortable, whether it's snowing (which is basically dry conditions) or actually dry outside.  I do find that the pit zips alone are not sufficient for ventilation (staying in that target zone of cool and dry) in the temperature range of 20-35 F. where I most prefer to ride.  So I usually am working the front zipper of my shell (and also a half-zip 100 weight fleece underneath) up and down as needed to keep my upper torso cool (and therefore dry) rather than warm.

As I believe others have mentioned, ventilating the sleeves (and keeping your arms/layers dry) is typically more difficult due to limited options for directing airflow (compared to the torso).  I mostly address this by keeping my torso/layers extra cool/dry when I feel my sleeves starting to get clammy.  

It certainly is true, at least in my experience over quite a few years, that it is MUCH more challenging to stay cool during cold weather riding conditions than it is to stay warm.  Warm is usually just a zipped-up zipper or amped-up heartrate away, whereas cooling off and drying out takes time and patience and practice to get the correct "recipe" to match the air temp outside.  But in the end, the (often rather expensive, admittedly) accumulation of clothing and gear, and the numerous test runs and trial/error periods of getting to the point of dressing properly for the NOW temperature/conditions and taking a few extra pieces to address the LATER temp/conditions is really, really rewarding.  A sunny day at 25 degrees and a smooth asphalt shoulder along the highway is, for me, about as good as it gets for mid-winter bicycling.

Willet M.

Carbondale, CO

[JAS]

So Leah, is there something wrong with owning two jackets...one for each bike color combination?  

Joyce (who loves jackets, owns many and should start sending one to the thrift shop when a new one is acquired).

[Leah Peterson]

Oh, Joyce, Leah Peterson ought to dial it back. But, that raspberry coat is really lovely. Tell me about sizing - the reviews on size were mixed. Some tiny women (5’2”, 120 lb) ordered a medium so they would have room for layers. I’m 5’6”, 133 and usually a small. How do you find your jacket to run size-wise? Should I order up? Maybe some other RivSisters have the same question, so I’m posting this publicly instead of a PM.

Thanks!

Leah

On Jan 28, 2022, at 11:49 PM, JAS <swanso...@gmail.com> wrote:

So Leah, is there something wrong with owning two jackets...one for each bike color combination?  

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[Liz Tilton]

I concur with Joyce’s list for cold-weather riding…lots of lightweight, base-layer wool and layers atop that. I’d add to her list these wonderful Descente wind-breaking gloves/mittens that I’ve worn for years. If necessary, I can slip a foot warmer in the mitten part for more toast. :) https://www.rei.com/product/776693/descente-wombat-full-finger-bike-gloves. 

I carry extra foot warmers in my seat bag.

I also wear a featherweight balaclava beneath my helmet…protects my face and keeps warmth from escaping my helmet. 

This is how I’ve commuted 26-round-trip miles for years in all kinds of Ohio (gray and miserable) winters. To my mind, it’s okay if I get a little wet or a little cold or a little ready to be home because I’m usually out for only 1-1.5 hours at a time when it’s cold/snowy. I dislike riding for long stretches if it’s so cold that the water in my bottle grows colder and colder and then freezes. So I save the long rides for the other three seasons.

And as much as I love and generally adhere to the Just Ride philosophy, I have to say that I shake my head at it when it comes to winter riding because it’s not as if most bicyclists in the country can slap on a cute cap or a pair of everyday shoes and take off during cold weather. It takes a lot of thinking and planning and money and experimentation to ride in Michigan in winter, and I tip my balaclava to you for tackling it, Leah. And Joyce. And my other Riv friends and sisters. 

Liz 

[Leah Peterson]

LIZ. 

26 mile round trip in Ohio winters??? We need YOU to write a thread about cold weather riding because you have got to be the expert. I have a wool balaclava from LL Bean for snowmobiling, so I’ll pull that out. The Descente gloves are not available on REI, so I’ll check elsewhere. What jacket are you wearing? OR are you just layering wool like Pam does?

Also, I have other curiosities. What bike do you ride in these conditions? Do you have special tires? Does the salt wreck the bike/drivetrain? (People say I should ride a beater bike but I don’t want to. I just like riding my Rivs and I think I’m not going to be precious about the mermaid bike.) 

Hats off to YOU, RivSister.

Leah

On Jan 29, 2022, at 8:13 AM, Liz Tilton <meti...@gmail.com> wrote:

I concur with Joyce’s list for cold-weather riding…lots of lightweight, base-layer wool and layers atop that. I’d add to her list these wonderful Descente wind-breaking gloves/mittens that I’ve worn for years. If necessary, I can slip a foot warmer in the mitten part for more toast. :) https://www.rei.com/product/776693/descente-wombat-full-finger-bike-gloves. 

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[Liz Tilton]

I commuted like that for about 10 years, but only 2 or 3 days each week. :) I’m no longer at the same job and no longer ride to work, but those years, if the weather was bad when it was time to leave home, I didn’t ride my bike. If the weather was bad on my way home, I usually rode on home. So, I’m not all that. 

My final layers on top are almost always a Patagonia nano puff jacket and, finally, a Carhartt high-visibility reflective vest. 

I started off with a Bridgestone MB5 with some long-forgotten knobby mountain-bike tires for this commute. Then, 15 years ago when I built up my Atlantis, I rode it with run-of-the mill Continental Sport Contact tires (I think)…nothing special AT ALL. Yes, I rode in salt, and if the parts or frame got all gunked up, I hosed it and dried it off in my basement. I do like a clean bike. :)

When I say I Just Ride, I’m serious. I don’t pay much attention to tires and never change them. And if the weather seems dangerous, I don’t ride. And if the streets haven’t been plowed, I wait until they’ve been plowed. Otherwise, I just ride what I’ve got and make the best of it. 

My Atlantis still looks fantastic (probably because I wipe it down after ugly-weather rides). I don’t have a collection of bicycles, so I ride what I’ve got. Now, though, I’ve added a Clem L, and we’ve already traveled some snowy territory, and I love it. 

[Leah Peterson]

I’m inspired. I don’t want to pay attention to tires and be switching them out. And I have the only 3 bikes I care to own and I don’t want a beater to ride. So, I will follow Liz’s excellent example and Just Ride. And clean off the bike from time to time.

I’m glad you love that Clem L - I just adore a Clem. Mine has slicks or that’s the bike I’d likely take out in the snow. They worked great in the desert, not in Michigan’s winter.

Those wonderful gloves you mentioned must be discontinued. I’ll keep looking. Thanks for your help!

On Jan 29, 2022, at 10:30 AM, Liz Tilton <meti...@gmail.com> wrote:

I commuted like that for about 10 years, but only 2 or 3 days each week. :) I’m no longer at the same job and no longer ride to work, but those years, if the weather was bad when it was time to leave home, I didn’t ride my bike. If the weather was bad on my way home, I usually rode on home. So, I’m not all that. 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/38b677ef-138e-479d-bf94-843cfcef8997n%40googlegroups.com.

[George Schick]

Perhaps this link may be of use for those who like to ride in the Winter areas with corrosive elements on the streets.  John Allen (picking up and following after the late Sheldon Brown) has some excellent advice at: 

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/winter.html

[Patrick Moore]

Here's another: Specialized RBX Expert LS jersey. A synthetic ls jersey whose insulating qualities are praised (tho' not its cut -- pockets too high, said the reviewer of the woman's model). Some sort of breathable synthetic woven material on the outside, some very thin fleece on the inside.

Has anyone used this? You opinion?

It is said to be quite warm as a second layer, and to breathe well -- what I am looking for in a 2nd layer over a wool jersey for temps in the upper 40s or low 50s. So far so good per the reviews I read.

But: Does it stink? And, does it pill? (I haven't worn synthetic jerseys for almost 20 years.)

Thanks.

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks, Danny.

On Thu, Jan 27, 2022 at 7:38 PM Dee Dee <scre...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks, Joyce.

[Patrick Moore]

This is excellent information; thanks. I will keep my eye on the Showers Pass line.

[ascpgh]

This morning it is 5°F as I finish my coffee and cereal before showering to ride to work. I'll dress with pieces I have in combinations to suit the cold start.

From the outside in, starting on the upper body is a Hilltrek Braemar Ventile anorak, a Patgonia windstopper front vest, a Patagonia Expedition Weight Capilene 1/4 zip top, a merino wool base layer. 

I have a pair of Mamut soft shell pants that have been a solid piece not requiring a long baselayer under them which is good because the women in my house have absconded with my old an hallowed PI thermafleece tights for wear in and around the house (a substitute looms), Smartwool socks in my Diadora (previously miststated as Lake) winter cycling shoes, either two Smartwool beanies under my rain cover outfitted helmet or beanie and a Thermax balaclava when single digits and below. 

I began deep winter commuting with a pair of OG Pearl Izumi gauntlet lobster gloves from 1990. Not the familiar wrist length knit cuff model, these were for real winter conditions with a gauntlet overlapping my shell sleeve cuff by 6" and apparently put off enough buyers as "too much" that they backed down to the more recognized standard insulation and wrist cuff ones. They worked to zero and were tolerable below for a half hour to an hour. I got some Outdoor Research Alti mitts on sale in the summer just before the pandemic. Perfection. I change hand positions on my bars and prefer these to pogies.

As I pedaled home last night after 8 I noted that I will need my face covered with the balaclava and more insulation for my arms, so I'll ditch the vest and add another insulating layer, either a midweight fleece or a Patagonia Puffball pull over. I once had a good pair of Smith ski goggles I would add to my face protection at about 15°F but when the elastic of the headband petered out I didn't replace them.

I've learned in the really cold rides that a rain shell is of dense material and those are effective thermal bridges (bad). Shoe soles are guilty of that too. Keep your core warm is always good advice, arms and legs too. Your feet and hands may tell you they are the first things to be cold but it isn't true, they just have more tactile nerves and say "the sky is falling" sooner and louder. Your core and extremity heat loss makes their discomfort come sooner. A bit of moist sweat down your back is a good thing if wearing layers to manage it. Means you're warm enough but do adjust closures/vents if it looks like you're in for extended effort. This is a bad time to be soggy if the ride isn't of ongoing exertion. Time to put it to practice. 

Andy Cheatham

Pittsburgh (City of one less Bridges)

On Thursday, January 27, 2022 at 11:28:14 AM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:

All this talk here and there on the threads about Who Is Wearing What for cold weather riding made me start a dedicated thread. There are certainly some archived threads on cold weather gear, but offerings change so here’s an updated thread. I am interested in this topic because I now live in Southwest Michigan and cannot bring myself to bike in temps below 35. But I miss riding so much, and if the roads are clear of snow and ice, I’d like to go. But what to wear? 

Last night I attended a Zoom with the famous Betty Foy rider and Cycling Savvy instructor Pamela Murray, and this was our very subject. There were a lot of good ideas presented, the common denominator being WOOL. Today I looked around online for some clothing that would help me out. Until December, I had been living in the desert so I’ll have a few pieces I’ll have to purchase, but most people won’t have to buy so much. Here are some things I found (and some of which I did order): 

REI jacket is not, admittedly, wool. But it gets wonderful reviews and it does have pit vents, reflectors and is made from recycled nylon so it’s not contributing to the landfill problem. The hood is meant to fit over the helmet - a huge plus.

[Garth]

Patrick, I haven't worn the Specialized jersey but by the description it uses a type of thermal Roubaix type fabric, which is a generic term that refers to a bi-component polyester, smooth on the outside and fleeced on the inside. Some brands use hollow fibers which greatly add to the insulating qualities. Boure for one uses hollow core fibers in their thermal fabrics. Boure tights are also high waist type, and you can tell on the product pages. No plumbers butt !  Boure also does custom work for a 25% added fee. Everything is made on site in their Colorado shop.  They also have a jacket and vest of that fabric that has a supplex nylon front and shoulder yoke to block the wind. A supplex wind jacket/vest with mesh backs also. While I haven't the need for any of their apparel as I all I need at this time, I appreciate the local, in-house business model. 

https://www.boure.com/6504.html

https://www.boure.com/tightsmen.html

https://www.boure.com/jacketsvests.html

I've tried so many ways of layering that I can only conclude that as long I come home alive and well, whatever I wore was obviously working well enough. 

I'll add a few of my favorite ways of layering. 

1. Layering shells and vests. Most useful is to layer a mesh back vest over a wind-breaking nylon/poly hooded shell. I must note also, that wind-breaker types of jackets can vary wildly in the amount of wind they block and body vapor that can pass through from within. Isn't that what "sweat" is made of, vapor that builds to form larger droplets ? In the warm breeze this cooling effect is welcomed, in the cold wind it is not. So better not to get to the point of sweating in the cold, at least for me. Less insulation while having adequate wind shedding and vapor dissipation within the garment itself to maintain of comfortable bodily climate. . Rather like living in a nice Greenhouse, warm but not too warm, moist but not too moist.... just right..... mmmmmm . 

2. A long or short sleeve poly base layer shirt over a hooded shell.  Craft is my favorite base layer shirt and for this year I've worn a Marmot Zenyatta hoody softshell. It has a soft hand, inherently stretchy and quiet, 100% poly bi-component knit. The Zenyatta was a surprise,  I bought it for around the house but tried it while riding and found myself maintaining steady body comfort in all sorts of conditions. If I need more warmth I'll either throw on a mesh back wind vest, a light poly fleece vest, or both. I've even worn another super lightweight windbreaker over the Marmot to warm back up after stopping in the cold and howling wind. Easy to take on/off riding. 

3. I wear some Aerotech thermo-Roubaix fleece bib tights down to about the 30 degrees, my limit for enjoyable cold riding with what I have. I wear these over Sportful bib shorts. I have these in both summer nylon and bi-component fall/spring roubaix type fabric. If I need a bit of extra warmth, I'll throw on a pair of oversized unlined swim shorts, the Coscto ones actually ,Turtle sea prints and all ! Who doesn't love to wear shorts in the cold, albeit over warm tights ? If I do need some extra leg warmth, I have some older, well worn Defeet Kneekers I can pull on over the tights on the calves or knees. I love me some Kneekers but sheesh, Defeet keeps changing them over the years. They used to be slightly longer and more stretchy. A company rep told me they've not changed but I have 5 pairs that say different. Armskins are also wonderful. Their leg warmers tend to fall on my longer legs so I wear 2 pairs of kneekers instead, one on the thigh and knee, the other over the calf up to the knee. That eliminates the pull from the lower portion upon the upper. I wear the coolmax Kneekers and Armskins as the wool ones itch like crazy on my skin.

4. Balaclavas of various thickness and windproof neck gaiters, with another insulating cap on top. Keeping wind off my neck is essential, as is a hooded jacket.

5. For my feet thick socks with diy plastic toe booties inside to retain heat over Altra Lone Peak RSM shoes. I also have some Showers Pass mountain socks, supposedly their warmest. I bought them only for wind blocking as they have a laminate sandwiched in between the layers. They're not as warm as I hoped though and they're too tight/not-so-stretchable overall to layer under them, and I don't even have thick feet. 

5. My hands I wear 5mil nitrile "disposable" but reusable gloves first, then various gloves and mitts over that. The nitrile gloves act as a vapor barrier, trapping moisture in my hands keeping the glove interior dry. While my hands can feel wet if overheated, they don't turn into a water balloon as you might think. Having a vapor barrier is the only thing that works as my hands/feet freeze easily. 

If I lived in some wondrous place where I could ride snow covered roads and trails in winter unfettered with cars and deicers, I'm sure I would be able to ride in and enjoy much colder temps with some additional clothing. I like the slower pace that goes with winter, whether I'm walking/hiking or riding. 

That said...I'm off for a 7 degree walking hike in the forest on this cold winters day. A base layer shirt with windbreaker over that, a fleece jacket on that and a vintage  LL Bean super oversized XXL-tall Anorak on top. Roubaix tights and nylon wind pants . A balaclava, neck gaiter and Lowe Alpine winter cap. Refridgiwear mitts.  Poshmark is my go to place to find second hand clothes of all types, especially vintage like LL Bean stuff. 

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks, Garth; since you praise this company and use their tights with satisfaction, I conclude that this Roubaix material is good stuff. Their jerseys look good and reasonably priced for the level of quality.

I'll look again at that Specialized jersey as a light outer layer (at the nearby bike shop), if I don't see a suitable wool exchange for my Kelly green Kucharik.

Moving on to base layers: I find wool to be the best: it doesn't hold water against your skin (it never feels clammy), seems to keep you comfortable over a wider range of temps than synthetics (but then, I've not used synthetic tops for 20 years), and breathes nicely if you don't seal it off from the outside.

It was only 30* this am when I left for church wearing a light merino dress pullover and an Italian wool cycling jacket (from the 1980s) with nylon wind panels. Plus wool watch cap and DeFeet knit wool gloves under the light lined leather Bundeswehr gloves. Pants were the Oslo jeans, and merino socks under Specialized non-mesh mtb shoes. The jacket and top are actually good down to the mid 20s if I add a scarf or Buff or a balaclava under a Walz cap, and switch to PI Lobster gloves over the DeFeets. At least, good for 3 hours which is a lot more than I usually ride in winter.

[JAS]

Leah, regarding sizing of Showers Pass jackets for women....according to their height/weight chart, I'd take a size large.  However, after trying them on at REI, I found the XL (size 16) fits me best.  I have room for layers and the large was too tight around the hips.  If you want to wear winter layers, I'd suggest sizing up to a medium.  Are you going to get the raspberry jacket?!!  If so, I'm already anticipating the beautiful blend of colors in your next Platy pose which you'll post for all to enjoy.

RivSisters,

Joyce