650b Gravel Bikes?

[George Schick]

There has been a lot of discussion about "gravel bikes" on this blog lately, but has there been any consideration given to a 650B gravel bike, so to speak?  IOW, are there any bikes set up like a 650B and with available "gravel accommodating" tires available?  Maybe I've missed something in the discussion threads, but I can't recall seeing this.

[Ted W]

I don’t know about a bike dedicated to 650B in all sizes but some smaller Rivs come as a 650B and the Susie is 650B… but what is a gravel bike, after all, but a bike ridden on gravel or hard-pack dirt roads? I would classify most of the bikes made by Riv as gravel or gravel adjacent. They’ve almost all got generous tire clearance. The only thing modern gravel bikes have that Rivs lack are expensive electronics and disc brakes, really…

On Sat, Jul 1, 2023 at 4:47 PM George Schick <bhi...@gmail.com> wrote:

There has been a lot of discussion about "gravel bikes" on this blog lately, but has there been any consideration given to a 650B gravel bike, so to speak?  IOW, are there any bikes set up like a 650B and with available "gravel accommodating" tires available?  Maybe I've missed something in the discussion threads, but I can't recall seeing this.

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Ted Wood < ted.l...@gmail.com >

[Brian Turner]

Crust bikes comes to mind. I have their 650b “gravel” bike… the Bombora. They have several others. Surly does. Kona does.

I actually prefer 650b as a wheel size, and there was a time when Rivendell was pushing that size hard and designing frames around it. Now, I’m sized out of Rivendell’s 650b offerings. Most Riv frames my size are now the cutoff for 700c, and honestly it kind of bums me out. 

On Jul 1, 2023, at 8:03 PM, Ted W <ted.l...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Richard Rose]

Brian, I do not recall your size but I think we ride the same size Gus - large? FYI, I am equally comfortable on my large Gus with 29” x 2.6” tires as I am on my size 52 Clem L with 27.5” x 2.25”. I enjoy both wheel sizes. I think the Clem is a superb gravel bike though not necessarily a fast one.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 1, 2023, at 8:48 PM, Brian Turner <brok...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[rlti...@gmail.com]

Black Mountain Cycles new Mod-Zero frame can be set up with 650B. Tires max out at 2.25” with that wheel size. A A29er setup would max out at 2”. 

Robert Tilley

San Diego, CA

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 1, 2023, at 1:47 PM, George Schick <bhi...@gmail.com> wrote:

There has been a lot of discussion about "gravel bikes" on this blog lately, but has there been any consideration given to a 650B gravel bike, so to speak?  IOW, are there any bikes set up like a 650B and with available "gravel accommodating" tires available?  Maybe I've missed something in the discussion threads, but I can't recall seeing this.

[iamkeith]

I've not read the gravel bike threads because I don't have a subscription to the NY times that will let me read that article , so I might be missing something.  Like Ted, I've just always interpreted that term to be a marketing effort by the mainstream bike industry (and adjacent industries, like media publishing) to re-quoin and popularize the "all-rounder" or "country bike" or "hybrid" or "monster-cross" or "all-road" concept, or what most of the people on this list simply call a "bicycle."  I think there's an argument that the very first 650b-specific bike in the era of that wheel size's modern resurgence - the Saluki - WAS a gravel bike.  

With disc brake-equipped bikes, couldn't most any gravel-labeled bike with adequate tire clearance and a reasonably high bottom bracket be converted to 650b?  To me, that flexibility has always been the single best argument for disc brakes in the first place.  For mainstream manufacturers, low bottom brackets (that might otherwise make conversion a bad idea) are still rare  because of fear of liability or complaints of riders getting pedal strikes while attempting to pedal through a turn.

[Will Boericke]

There are plenty of gravel bikes designed around 650b out there.  For me, 650b is the option on a bike designed for 700s to go really big.  Two wheelsets that I can swap back and forth - 700x42 (admittedly not small) and 650x47.

Will

[Fullylugged]

It's not hard to convert a 700 wheel bike to 650B.  I have 2 of them right now and sold one last year.

[Ted Durant]

On Saturday, July 1, 2023 at 3:47:34 PM UTC-5 George Schick wrote:

There has been a lot of discussion about "gravel bikes" on this blog lately, but has there been any consideration given to a 650B gravel bike, so to speak?  

I have two Sam Hillbornes that are perfect gravel bikes and a Breadwinner G-Road, all three are 650B.  Virtually all of the bikes marketed as "gravel bikes" use disk brakes and are capable of running either 622 or 584 rims. Many of them advertise that as a feature and show clearance for fatter "27.5" tires than "29". At the high end of competition, though, it seems virtually everyone runs 622. My saddle height is around 700mm and for 42-52mm tires 584 rims require no compromise in frame dimensions. 

Ted Durant

Milwaukee, WI USA

[Eliot Balogh]

My Fairlight has big clearance and handles beautifully with 650b. Custom Reynolds tubing at production pricing. 

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[Bill Lindsay]

I picked up a Model Zero (53cm Green).  It just seemed dumb not to.  It'll probably be a few weeks before I drive out to pick it up, but I had the entire build sitting around.  It was a choice between selling a lot more used bike parts or get another special niche bike for the price of a frame.  I've got a habit of choosing the latter.  The main draw, and the reason I've got the build kit laying around, was that with a more contemporary head tube the Model Zero will fit my Lauf Grit fork.  I traded away a Road + frame for a Quickbeam to make room for a Model Zero.  

Bill Lindsay 

El Cerrito, CA

[rlti...@gmail.com]

I picked up a Mod Zero as well. Same size and color. Mine will be a complete build from Mike due to time constraints on my end. I’ll be up there for business soon but I’ll be flying up so I won’t be able to pick up my bike in person. I could justify a drive but parking in SF is bad and I’m not sure I’d have time to get up to Point Reyes while I’m there anyways.

Robert Tilley

San Diego, CA

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On Jul 2, 2023, at 10:17 AM, Bill Lindsay <tape...@gmail.com> wrote:

I picked up a Model Zero (53cm Green).  It just seemed dumb not to.  It'll probably be a few weeks before I drive out to pick it up, but I had the entire build sitting around.  It was a choice between selling a lot more used bike parts or get another special niche bike for the price of a frame.  I've got a habit of choosing the latter.  The main draw, and the reason I've got the build kit laying around, was that with a more contemporary head tube the Model Zero will fit my Lauf Grit fork.  I traded away a Road + frame for a Quickbeam to make room for a Model Zero.  

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[Patrick Moore]

That's a pretty bike. I take it that it's lightweight tigg'd steel with CF fork. What are the rims and tires (sizes + make/model)? And what are those bottle cages? I note the Brooks saddle on an otherwise modern bike and the very complex and sophisticated stay bending to accommodate fattest tire with lowest Q

Patrick Moore, who believes that his 2016 Matthews "road bike for dirt" and his 2020 "2003 Matthews IGH Curt Goodrich Riv Road custom clone" are Rivendellian in concept if not in manufacture.

Me, I am fully of the opinion that a Rivendellianesque bicycle is less a matter of the material or joinery as of the design, geometry, clearances, and intended use. 

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Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

[Patrick Moore]

Oh, and the skinny tt matched with OS dt and st.

On Sun, Jul 2, 2023 at 3:20 PM Patrick Moore <bert...@gmail.com> wrote:

...  I note the Brooks saddle on an otherwise modern bike and the very complex and sophisticated stay bending

[ascpgh]

I looked to 650B as a solution to my particular fit issues for an all road bike the other year. Grant was very frame size dependent in his support of 650B and felt that above a certain size (several below mine) the utility of the wheel size ended its utility. Those considerations are fair for stock geometry. 

The problem for me and my ideal under square (2-3cm) frame dimensioning is that I get into toe overlap with 700c wheels with fatter tires. I wanted broader capacity for rougher road riding and load carrying so 650B was my way to go. I still would rather ride smarter than fasteron unpaved surfaces and 650Bx42 has provided all the envelope I need without tapping my Walter Mitty thoughts.

I made many purchases and gone down bicycle and equipment rabbit holes chasing more "performance" only to find out the lease expensive component of my bike is where the greatest capacity to upgrade resides...me. 

I had my 650B bike built and ride it hundreds of miles off pavement, with fenders, on RH Babyshoe Pass tires set up tubeless on Pacenti Brevet rims, three years so far without reason to look back or second guess the formula. 

Andy Cheatham

Pittsburgh

[Den John]

My 'gravel bike' is a Rivendell Atlantis with 650B wheels. It is a 2018 model I think, which has long chainstays but a shortish top tube

that allows for drop bars. There was a choice between 650B and 700c in that size in that year. The bike rides really nicely on a variety of unpaved surfaces, and descends fantastically well. I currently run 50mm tyres with fenders, but I have some 57mm G-ones that I might try some time without fenders.

Cheers,

Johnny in Belgium

[Chris L]

Because I prefer really wide tires and no toe overlap, I would prefer 650B for my bike.  I looked into having disk tabs added to my Hunqapillar and I could buy a different (non-RIV, of course) frameset for what that modification would cost, and that's not including paint.  I could have them chop off the canti studs and install new ones for 650B, but I would rather not do that.  

[George Schick]

Great responses to this post!  Thanks all.  I would have several things to say about this "gravel bike" business:  first of all, I agree that it's a concept that reminds me of the very early days of mountain biking (what was originally called "mountain surfing," IIRC) where someone got ahold of an old Schwinn cantilever-framed "clunker," refitted it with gears and rim brakes, and went out to ride it.  Things evolved from there into very specifically designed and outfitted bikes with shock suspensions, linear-pull brakes, etc.  I remember wa-a-a-ay back when I was a little kid in the mid-50's my dad had gotten ahold of an old 24" (wheel size) cantilever-balloon-tire-equipped Schwinn, repainted it, and gave it to me for my birthday.  It was the first bike I learned to ride and I rode it everywhere.  We lived in the country back then where there were nothing but gravel roads and I would ride it several miles to a gas station to buy candy, down the road a piece to play around in a creek, and just about every place else.  'Course, I was much lighter back then, but still to me it was the original "gravel bike."

Having reviewed the responders' personal experiences and recommendations I'd be inclined toward either a Riv Atlantis or a Waterford Adventure cycle - either of which could be set up with wide 650B tires.  The Atlantis has the advantage of longer chain and seat stays allowing for both wide tires and fenders; the Adventure cycle not so much (although using 650B tires on it could open up the rear stays area enough to allow fender mounting).  Thanks again!

[Will Boericke]

I have a long chainstay gravel bike (built on a Schwinn passage) and a more modern frame with discs.  Long chainstays obviously make chunky terrain and descents much more tolerable and controlled.  Depending on the style of riding, though, they make getting your front wheel up and over obstacles (common here in New England) difficult.  For that riding, I much prefer to have my rear wheel right under me.

Will