Susie / Appaloosa indecision

[Brian Thomas]

Hey Everyone. I'm seriously torn between a lugged Susie and an Appaloosa later this year. Help me commit!

I commute and run errands (no question that's most of my mileage), but fun rides are always in seek of trails with pavement as needed: day rides plus occasional camping. I think each bike is overkill in a different way. The Appaloosa is capable of longer distances and heavier loads, which would be pretty rare for me. The bigger tires on the Susie would open up more technical singletrack, which would be similarly rare.

What to do? I like the idea of the Appaloosa's more traditional look, but I like the Susie's higher handlebars and increased crotch clearance. I'm likely to want fenders, so I may end up not using the Susie's tire clearance to full advantage (sidebar: what's the biggest tire that will really fit under a B65? B69? Anyone know of another decent-looking jumbo fender?).

All opinions welcome, with special thanks to anyone who's ridden or owned both.

[Richard Rose]

Others here can no doubt offer more experienced opinions but, I would get the Susie and an extra set of wheels. One with 2.5”-2.6” knobbies (Honcho, Ehline) for singletrack or other off road stuff (backpacking), and the other with 2.0” - 2.25 smoothish tires for more roadish use. Susie is such a versatile platform. This of course is my perspective only & reflects my preference for off road excursions.

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On Feb 7, 2024, at 4:23 PM, Brian Thomas <briand...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Tim Bantham]

I would recommend the Appaloosa. If you're primary use is commuting and grocery getting there isn't a better bicycle then the Joe A. You could put a decent size knobbie tire on there is you wanted. I had Schwalbe Thunder Burts on mine which made it great for road and great for the occasional off road excursion. It certainly can be a "have fun" bike if you build it up right. If you are looking to add fenders under a reasonably sized tire then the Appaloosa also gets the nod. I've never owned a Susie/Gus but I've owned an Appaloosa which was one of my favorites Riv bikes I had ever owned. I regret selling it all the time.

[iamkeith]

Tough call, based on your stated criteria and preferences.  I don't think you could go wrong, but I don't have the direct experience for a comparison.  I have a Susie and a bunch of other Rivs, but my All Rounder is the closest analog to the Appaloosa.  (If you cosider Appaloosa evolved from the Atlatis, which evolved from the All Rounder.... but it's pretty far removed at this point.)

I'll say that both are among the few bikes I'll  never ever part with.  But ESPECIALLY the AR,  because it is just so classic looking and also so versatile.  I suspect the Appaloosa will still feel more like a sprightly road bike than the Susie, with it's new thicker tubing - not the more "over-built" load carrier you're anticipating

On the other hand, I'll note that my one, big complaint about the Susie - a too-high-for-my-liking bottom bracket - is being remedied in the new, lugged batch.  So that's a huge improvement that should make it feel more like a Rivendell and be more comfortable for the riding you describe.

I'll also say that you're probably correct that you won't want or need all of the tire clearance that the susie has. I got B65 fenders to work with 2.8 tires, with mods.  (More on that later.)  But it's way too much.  It's overkill and doesn't ride or steer well.  (But the high BB compounds that, Im sure, by making the center of gravity too high.)

Then again, it's nice to finally  have MORE room than you need or want for a change.  I think 2.5ish tires are probably the sweet spot - at least at my weight and terrain and for the type of riding you describe.  (What I have on my clem)  And, unfortunately, the Appaloosa caps out at 2.25  (going from memory...  so check that.)  

Making your decision even more muddied, I'm sure...

[Joe Bernard]

I had an Appaloosa for a while and a Susie for not very long, didn't ride either on dirt. I liked the Susie better based on I couldn't even eat, it was just more interesting to me.* I'm sure this isn't very helpful! 

*I wish I'd kept the Susie, it was sold during a bunch of drama I won't bore you with. 

[Joe Bernard]

*based on I couldn't even say* TYPOS! 

[Hoch in ut]

I agree with Richard. Although both would serve your needs, if there is any chance you’ll ride some singletrack, I’d wholeheartedly get the suze. 2.6” tires with that long wheelbase is a riot. 

Caveat is I only have a 6 mile round trip commute. And grocery is 6 mile trip. So any bike works. If your commute is much longer, I’d say neither bike would be great. Just get a cheap Trek 420 for the commutes. 

The only thing I don’t like about Susie is the name. 

[Joe Bernard]

I agree about the name, I'm mystified that they dropped Gus Boots-Willsen. 

[Bill Lindsay]

They are different bikes, so the only smart move is one of each.  

BL in EC

On Wednesday, February 7, 2024 at 1:23:50 PM UTC-8 BrianT wrote:

[Ed Carolipio]

I think you could make either work for what you want to do and would be a pleasure to own. That said, I would opt for the Susie because of its uniqueness. I can't think of an off-the-shelf frame that offers the combination of design elements that the Susie does using lugs and fillet brazing, and I expect it will always be tough to find one in the used market.

Ed C.

Redondo Beach, CA

[Luke Hendrickson]

I have the MIT Atlantis which is pretty close to the Appa in terms of geo, etc. I mostly commute as well and the Atlantis is supremely comfy (the Bullmoose bars, 2.25” tires, and leather saddle sure help). I hit some mountain bike trails nearby in Marin and it descends confidently and climbs securely. It’s better on not so tight singletrack (as is the case with all of the long chanstay Rivs). 

I commute from San Francisco to South San Francisco every workday with a load in the front basket and I also use my bike for shopping and all errands, at times helped by a B.O.B. trailer. The Atlantis is just … a great all-rounder. I would imagine that the Appa will be that for you. Perfunctory low-res image attached :)

[Brian McDermott]

I haven't ridden a Susie, but do have an Appaloosa. If you're primarily commuting and also doing a little bit of trail stuff, the Appa is built for you. A perfect commuter, great for loaded touring, and I've only done light local trails with mine so far, which it's great on with Billie bars, but it has ample tire clearance that with knobbies and the right bars it would be great for rougher trails. Even on pavement, with hands forward of the brake levers it feels like a road bike. Truly an all-rounder. 

[BrianT]

Thanks... Good points all around. My city days are about 10 miles round trip, so Hoch's reasoning resonates. I'm much more likely to hit the single track than attempt longer road rides. And frankly the hills and horrifying pavement quality near me warrant big commuter tires anyway ;)

I think I'm sold. Now just watch my internet go out tomorrow at 11:57...

On Wednesday, February 7, 2024 at 6:42:55 PM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:

[Heike Larson]

Hi Brian - you say you're sold, not sure on which bike. I'll weigh in for the Appa (never having ridden a Susie, though). I use it as my true all-rounder here in Southern California. It's my commute bike for 7 miles up the hill on pavement to run all kinds of errands, including carrying groceries. It's great of my weekend excursions, which often involve a mix of pavement and fire roads, anywhere from 20 to 75 miles. It's been wonderful to do more off-road things, like a three-day bike camping tour on Catalina Island all over gravel roads. I've done some trail riding too and plan to do more now that I've added Schwalbe Marathon Mondial tires that do better on rougher stuff than the road-ish tires the bike came with. All that said--I still take out my hardtail fat-tire mountain bike when I want to do more challenging trail riding, especially crossing creeks or tighter single-track--but that doesn't happen very often as I'm not an all out mountain biker anymore (never really was doing the extreme stuff.)

[Hoch in ut]

Gus Boots Willsen is probably one of, if not THE coolest bike model ever. 

I wish they would’ve designated the smaller sizes as Susie and the bigger as Gus. 

[Richard Rose]

Not only a “cool” bike but a damn fine mountain bike as well. Mine is a large so 700c, or as us mountain bikers prefer, a 29’er. I just finished riding a little over 18 miles of beautifully twisty, rooty singletrack. No switchbacks but one tight turn after another weaving between trees. Set up properly it’s a very agile MTB. The long wheelbase / stays and 2.6” tires at low pressures make for a very forgiving ride. I think some folks think a Gus or Susie on MTB trails is “underbiking”. I think that notion undersells these bikes.

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On Feb 8, 2024, at 8:53 PM, Hoch in ut <cack...@gmail.com> wrote:

Gus Boots Willsen is probably one of, if not THE coolest bike model ever. 

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[brendonoid]

I own Both.

The (old)Susie is such a great trail bike but if you don't neeeeeed the huge tyre clearance I would say that the Appa is a nicer road/gravel bike because of the steeper head tube and lower BB.

The new Susie looks super neat and has a 5mm lower BB so honestly get the bike you prefer the name/colour/headbadge on.

Both are killer bikes and all Rivs are crazy versatile so its not like you ever really 'miss out'.

I have two Appas, a 58(dtt-1cm less reach original geo) and a 57(updated geo) and a 59 Susie if that helps with anything.